Phone vs. Camera - 2022

[pierces]

From my blog on pierce324.com:

Phone vs. Camera

Recently I have posted a few commentaries over on the Cruise Critic message boards regarding the tremendous advances in smartphone camera modules and how that has led to me using my phone for causal or even some travel photography instead of an advanced compact camera or hauling a "real" camera along. I thought I would add some real-life samples to compare.

A few weeks ago, we drove up the hill to our son's church to see him deliver his sermon. While he was on stage, I used the phone's 105mm equivalent optical zoom to take a few shots. The results were really quite good, considering the relatively poor lighting. Here is one of the shots straight off the phone with only resizing for web presentation done:

 

1/35s - ISO266 - f/3.5

 

The photo below was taken last Sunday under identical conditions (even the same seats) with my Sony A7III also at 105mm:

 

1/250s - ISO3200 - f/5.6

 

Not a great deal of difference when resized and posted to a blog page. Considering that most of my photos are viewed online by friends and family, why would I ever carry a relatively bulky mirrorless camera when I can just pull out my phone and get the same result?

I said "most" and the results aren't "the same". That's why. While we only print a limited number of family and travel photos, when it comes to the small details and photographic versatility, the camera trumps the phone in almost every way except convenience. (I said "photographic versatility" because the phone kicks the camera's butt when it comes to making a call, driving directions or browsing the web.) How much trumping depends a lot on the conditions. These images were taken under way less than ideal lighting and the fact that the phone was able to capture an image with the amount of detail shown above is a testament to how far phone camera tech has come in the last few years. However, if you need to crop aggressively or are adding the motion and another 100 feet while shooting one of our grandson's hockey games or our granddaughter's skating routine the phone just can't keep up. If the phone's AI assistant was honest, it would tell you to get a better camera and do a search for examples on Amazon.

How big is the diffference?

A closer look at a crop of the original un-resized phone version shows artifacts from the AI processing of the behind-the-scenes burst of several images into the best result.

While both cropped images are softened by WordPress' compression algorithm, the image from the Sony retains far greater detail. Add the fact that I could have switched lenses and gotten this field of view without cropping and the camera pulls even farther ahead.

Is the phone useless for anything other than snapshots destined for the web? Not at all. In good lighting and non-extreme situations, the gap between the phone and camera narrows to the point that I am comfortable using the phone to capture images for almost any end use. My decade-long Picture-A-Week project has shifted heavily to phone images in the last few years. They look great and are generally indistinguishable from "real camera" images in the annual book I make on Blurb at the end of each year. For example, the photo below was taken in good backyard light with the Pixel 6 Pro and would make an excellent 16x20 print.

 

My dad always said, "use the right tool for the job" and I try hard to stick to that valuable bit of advice. Using the mirrorless cameras for action, serious landscapes or portraits and the phone for casual walkabout or family gathering shots is a good rule of thumb. In real life, these types of rules tend to be pretty flexible. I have used the flat part on a pair of needle nose pliers to drive small nails, shot many a blowing out of birthday candles with a full-frame mirrorless and taken some darn good portraits and travel photos with my phone.
 

The bottom line: Use the right photographic tool for the job but in a pinch, the picture you take with whatever is at hand will always be better than the picture you didn't take.

Happy Shooting!

[pierces]

I suppose this is an addendum to the subject, so I'm posting it here. 

 

In December, we took a short cruise to previously visited ports and I broke from a thousand-year(ish) tradition and didn't take a "real" camera. The Pixel 6 Pro did a great job and I wasn't regretful at all. On our trip last week, I took the A7III with the 24-105 f/4 G along to do a little experiment. I found that with the exception of the ice skating show (didn't even try with the phone), there weren't many situations that involved general travel shots where I wasn't pleased with the results from either. In bad light, the camera was better, but not by as much as one would expect when viewed on the web as is usual for most travel photos these days. 

 

Take a look if you are interested and see if you can readily tell the source of the image. There's a "Photo Data" button below each image that displays the EXIF with the source info.

 

 

Gallery here: 2022-4 Navigator (pptphoto.com)

 

Dave

[Host Bonjour]

Definitely can't always tell without looking at the data, which is what's nice about having the nicer quality camera in our phone's these days. As long as there are no plans for any significant upsizing or modifications, users may rely on what they're getting from the phone for sharing in emails, social media, or small enlargements to frame. 

 

There are ways to improve smartphone photography, in some cases without too many additional attachments though a few are fairly easy to add on (but expensive) whereas with others, it would be no different than lugging along the regular camera and equipment, because you'd need a tri or monopod, supplemental lighting, and know how to adjust in-camera settings (though that's gotten better too!) but you can get quite close to high-res large scale images in a smart phone, but they won't just come from pulling the phone out of the back pocket, as Dave points out.

 

Hulu produced a show last year called Exposure, it was a smartphone photo competition (sort of like a cooking or fashion design show, but making photos) and I really enjoyed it. The hosts were experts in the field, and each week they had another expert guest judge. The show started off with a mini challenge, and then they moved on to the main challenge of the week, which would emphasize many of the different types of photography or concepts.

 

One week they had to shoot a band, another week they were outdoors, one week was surrealism, I think there were 8 shows and a lot of creativity and surprises. All done with android smartphones. (I know, I use an iPhone.) They do use Adobe PhotoShop too, so if you don't use it, or don't know about photo editing (you can do it on your smart phone without PhotoShop!) don't worry, it's still fun to watch. They don't really show the PhotoShop, but it doesn't come up. 

 

Anyway, thanks for sharing the gallery and compare/contrast images. I've listened to world renowned photojournalists who were taking their family portraits with a tripod, forgot to check the settings on their camera and then realize once done it was on some automatic setting that they wouldn't have chosen and guess what? It came out beautiful. Something to be said for modern technology. There are still some things that require old ways, but more and more, it's getting easier to at least not have regrets or disappointment and have mostly lovely photos, which is everything when traveling.  🙂

[pierces]

14 hours ago, Host Bonjour said:

Something to be said for modern technology. There are still some things that require old ways, but more and more, it's getting easier to at least not have regrets or disappointment and have mostly lovely photos, which is everything when traveling.  🙂

 

I have long been a fan of automation. Blessed is he or she who says, "I only shoot manual", but in my opinion, they are turning a blind eye to decades of advancement in metering and focus technology. Don't get me wrong, understanding basic photographic theory and the relationship between the three main components of exposure that shooting full manual requires will lead to better results regardless of one's philosophical approach. Still, packing a tiny supercomputer with 100 years of photographic experience and near-infinite control over the mechanics into a modern camera should be celebrated and used to your advantage, not dismissed. Another often overlooked innovation in modern photography is the impact of mirrorless on composing and managing aspects of an image. The ability to see how the system has managed the exposure and see the effects of manual intervention like exposure compensation in real time is a phenomenal tool. (I wonder how many "I only shoot manual" people use mirrorless cameras that provide real-time visual feedback to steer their "manual" settings?)

 

It should also be noted that while full Auto will provide excellent results in a ridiculously high percentage of situations, there's a lot of room for personalization while still making use of the robo-settings.

 

My personal human-assisted automation preference is to manage depth of field to my taste (A-mode) and let the camera fuss over the other bits. Features like setting Auto ISO maximum to limit noise and the ability to set the lowest shutter speed before ISO is boosted has made my photographic life much easier (this eliminated the need to use shutter-priority for me). My phone is also capable of a lot of user input, but except in rare cases, I find it unnecessary. This is mainly due to what I use it for (which has expanded a lot), but also because it has its own supercomputer and I suspect, a dab of actual magic to manage all the aspects of image capture.

 

As you said, there are still situations that require user experience and input, but that gap is narrowing. That's why I say this a lot...

 

It's a great time to be a photographer!

 

Dave

[Rlandrigan]

Up until my iPhone 11Pro, I was in a constant hunt for a compact camera that didn't;t make me scream - Nikon Coolpix A, Fuji X70, Sony Rx100 series, etc - they are all great, and were great vacation cameras, but the 11 was good enough that a secondary cameras was no longer so vital. I'd buy a X80 in a heartbeat, if they ever resisted that model, partly as it was a great intentional camera and with a single flip of the switch a great automatic snapshot machine. 

 

I don't like phone camera prints, admittedly - they don't hold up at the sizes I tend to put on the wall - but that what my other cameras are for - the phones serves as the event recorder and social poster, and as backup:)

[Host Bonjour]

On 5/4/2022 at 11:19 AM, pierces said:

It should also be noted that while full Auto will provide excellent results in a ridiculously high percentage of situations, there's a lot of room for personalization while still making use of the robo-settings.

 

My personal human-assisted automation preference is to manage depth of field to my taste (A-mode) and let the camera fuss over the other bits. Features like setting Auto ISO maximum to limit noise and the ability to set the lowest shutter speed before ISO is boosted has made my photographic life much easier (this eliminated the need to use shutter-priority for me). My phone is also capable of a lot of user input, but except in rare cases, I find it unnecessary. This is mainly due to what I use it for (which has expanded a lot), but also because it has its own supercomputer and I suspect, a dab of actual magic to manage all the aspects of image capture.

 

Agree on all aspects as to phone and camera settings, when to adjust, when not (or why) and or switching to manual etc. and what the difference is or could/would be, all things being equal. 

 

I think these days, or maybe always, what's so important and essential in terms of making an image is less in how the camera is set up than in understanding some basics: what's the subject of the image, is it framed well, aesthetically: how will people's eyes react when they see it?

 

The tech specs come up again and again, and less conversation goes into things like: what makes an image visually appealing? Why? Why not? Basics like composition and lighting, which a camera these days can technically provide some assistance with, but amongst all the other settings, can also easily get lost. Maybe because it's such a personal and unique choice.

 

There are certain things that are guiding principles, the law of threes, color theory, and physics/principles of of light, some of which are more mutable than others, but all of which are firmly rooted in visual and lens based work.

 

To a great extent, anyone making an image still has a great amount of control over this when they make an image; some of that control is within the systems of the camera and its various settings, but a vast amount of it is right within the person that is using the device. Come home with photobook quality images every time! I've seen them with smart phones, and with all level of digital cameras. 

 

Buying the best whatever is wonderful (it can be, for sure! I'll probably never have my Leica 😪 but I'll survive 🙂 ) and things will probably look crisp and beautiful, but what does one do with a view of half a glacier with a railing on the right side of it? Delete. 

 

All kinds of great, free podcasts, tutorials, blogs and videos out there for tips and info on how to up your game with smart phone and traditional photography, not so much the tech (though there's that too, but you'd want to find info specific to your model, AND THE RIGHT TEACHER!) but the process of making the image, not so much working the camera.

 

Just some thoughts. I was lucky to have had some great teachers and great inspiration all around me, then and now. 📷 😎

[pierces]

4 hours ago, Host Bonjour said:

 

Just some thoughts. I was lucky to have had some great teachers and great inspiration all around me, then and now. 📷 😎

 

I never had a teacher past the high school class where I happily explained the mathmatical relationships behind the trinity of exposure to the instructor. Lots of reading, lots of trial and error. Lots of pictures. More trials. More errors. I also studied a lot of photographers' work in the photo magazines and tied to emulate the ones I liked. Eventually my own style and preferences developed and fifty years later, I finally feel like a real photographer (or at least a competent hobbyist 🙂...)

 

Inspiration is the key. Looking past the noise to find the wonder and beauty still in the world is the best therapy.

 

Here's an early inspiration. Wonderful Wife was seventeen when I took this with my Minolta SRT-102 a year and a half before we were married back in '75. I've  gone through a bunch of cameras since then, but she was and still is a keeper!

 

 

Dave

 

[Heartgrove]

I agree fully on the abilities of a phone vs. a camera today. But five years ago I almost lost my phone over the side while on my balcony of the ship. Seas were a bit rough but the wind was unpredictable. It  caught the flat side and I struggled to keep my grip. Only use it with some sort of tether in conditions like that.

[pierces]

14 hours ago, Heartgrove said:

I agree fully on the abilities of a phone vs. a camera today. But five years ago I almost lost my phone over the side while on my balcony of the ship. Seas were a bit rough but the wind was unpredictable. It  caught the flat side and I struggled to keep my grip. Only use it with some sort of tether in conditions like that.

 

Couldn't agree more. For years I have used Black Rapid Wander tether on my phone. I recently started replacing the wrist strap with a lanyard and wearing it around my neck when it is on "camera duty".

 

https://www.blackrapid.com/wander-bundle/

 

Historical note. The fairly crappy photo above is the first photo I have ever taken with a tablet and did something with other than grimace and delete it. 🙂

 

Dave

[Host Bonjour]

On 5/26/2022 at 10:05 PM, pierces said:

More trials. More errors. I also studied a lot of photographers' work in the photo magazines and tied to emulate the ones I liked. Eventually my own style and preferences developed and fifty years later, I finally feel like a real photographer (or at least a competent hobbyist 🙂...)

 

What a beauty! Both subject and image. I don't think it took you 50 years to find a style, looks to me like you always had it. This is something entirely aside from the trinity, or anything anyone can teach, and causes one to stop and take a look at an image, and remember it. 

 

And it's definitely not necessary to know these numbers and settings anymore, yes that math and going through the numbers for the settings are mind numbing and would honestly take the fun out of anyone who wants to truly enjoy shooting. It takes too long to recalculate the different setups, and now it happens automatically, so setups programmed for various environments, no number crunching required, with great outcomes. 

 

10 hours ago, pierces said:

I recently started replacing the wrist strap with a lanyard and wearing it around my neck when it is on "camera duty".

 

This makes sense! I have a decent strap for my camera and it's always around my neck when I shoot, but I hadn't thought of it for my phone, but obviously why not? Makes so much sense to protect the device because even with insurance protection, there's still usually a small deductible to replace, which is minimal compared to the actual loss from not having the device which might be difficult or at a minimum, inconvenient to replace while mid-journey. 

 

Good recommendation and idea, thanks! Sorry to hear you lost your phone overboard @Heartgrovebut relieved to know you didn't go with it. 🙂 

 

 

[Heartgrove]

12 hours ago, Host Bonjour said:

 

What a beauty! Both subject and image. I don't think it took you 50 years to find a style, looks to me like you always had it. This is something entirely aside from the trinity, or anything anyone can teach, and causes one to stop and take a look at an image, and remember it. 

 

And it's definitely not necessary to know these numbers and settings anymore, yes that math and going through the numbers for the settings are mind numbing and would honestly take the fun out of anyone who wants to truly enjoy shooting. It takes too long to recalculate the different setups, and now it happens automatically, so setups programmed for various environments, no number crunching required, with great outcomes. 

 

 

This makes sense! I have a decent strap for my camera and it's always around my neck when I shoot, but I hadn't thought of it for my phone, but obviously why not? Makes so much sense to protect the device because even with insurance protection, there's still usually a small deductible to replace, which is minimal compared to the actual loss from not having the device which might be difficult or at a minimum, inconvenient to replace while mid-journey. 

 

Good recommendation and idea, thanks! Sorry to hear you lost your phone overboard @Heartgrovebut relieved to know you didn't go with it. 🙂 

 

 

 

No, thankfully the phone did not go overboard - but could have!