Regulating Ship's Casinos

[Mark]

Here is a question that I do not remember seeing posted before. We all know that if we go into a casino in Atlantic City or in Las Vegas we can hopefully be assured that the casiono and all games offered are fair and legitimate as far as your chance of winning a card game of slot machine. Casinos in those cities are inspected and regulated by the governmental gaming commissions.

 

However, when we go into a ship's casino, how do we know that the slot machines and card games are all fair and legitimate and not rigged in anyway to help the casino win?

 

Please advise?:confused:

[Mmm...coffee!]

All games are set up to allow the casino to win. Said one casino owner to another, "I love this business! Some days you win, some days you win even more!":)

 

I think we have to rely on the lessons that the mob bosses learned when they went into Las Vegas. There is no reason to cheat, in fact cheating is counterproductive. You can make more money than you ever dreamed possible just be playing it straight. The reputation for unscrupulous honestly at the tables is what kept people coming back and bringing their friends.

[discjoker]

 

However, when we go into a ship's casino, how do we know that the slot machines and card games are all fair and legitimate and not rigged in anyway to help the casino win?

 

Please advise?:confused:

 

You don't know. Since cruise casinos operate in international waters there are no rules or regulations. I do know that NCL for example has an independent company certify the payout on their slots.

 

Also, like was said already, there is really no point for the casino to cheat. Yes, most likely on many cruises the slot payouts will be less than you would have in Las Vegas but the odds on the table games are pretty much the same. They know they will get their cut by playing by the rules, so why bother cheating?

[flamomo]

Quite frankly, who cares? It's fun - - - - just another form of entertainment.

When I go to Vegas, I consider it the same way. Whether I am cruising or I am in a land-based casino, I go there to have fun. And gambling is an expected and planned-for expense.

As in Vegas and elsewhere, some folks on cruise ships win significant amounts and some lose more than they can afford to. But you have to go to any casino with that knowledge. I've won as much as $2400 on a cruise playing slots, and I've seen others win even more. I've also lost more than I wanted to.

You just have to know and stick to your limits of how much you are willing to lose. And hope for the best.

[johnql]

However, when we go into a ship's casino, how do we know that the slot machines and card games are all fair and legitimate and not rigged in anyway to help the casino win?

All the slots and tables games ARE rigged, just as they are in land-based casinos. EVERY game in a casino, regulated or not, is designed with a built-in house edge. It varies from game to game, and in some instances (e.g., craps), the house edge varies greatly within the game - from a minimal house edge (Pass, Don't Pass) to what can only be characterized as a sucker bet. With blackjack, they have negated what little chance a player had of eliminating the house edge by using shoes of 8 decks and dealing only a little more than half the shoe, OR, even worse, using a continuous shuffler - not an automatic shuffler but a continuous shuffler, where a player can't even get a feel for which cards have been played. With slots, the programmed payouts are probably lower than machines in Vegas. After all, with no competition, they're the only game in town.

 

As others have said, a cruise line has absolutely no need to cheat. In the long run, they WILL win.

[DanJ]

It's always seemed to me that it's easier to win earlier in the cruise, and you end up giving it back (and more LOL) later in the cruise.

[suzeyQ]

Quite frankly, who cares? It's fun - - - - just another form of entertainment.

When I go to Vegas, I consider it the same way. Whether I am cruising or I am in a land-based casino, I go there to have fun. And gambling is an expected and planned-for expense.

As in Vegas and elsewhere, some folks on cruise ships win significant amounts and some lose more than they can afford to. But you have to go to any casino with that knowledge. I've won as much as $2400 on a cruise playing slots, and I've seen others win even more. I've also lost more than I wanted to.

You just have to know and stick to your limits of how much you are willing to lose. And hope for the best.

 

I'm with you! I know they're rigged but I'm not playing them to try and make money. I'm playing for fun! Sure, it's a little more fun if I manage to win but that's not my motivation for gambling.

[touche]

I may get in trouble if anybody at work reads this but here's how slots work. (in case you haven't figured it out, I work at a casino).

 

The slot machines have a computer chip inside them that has a choice of 'hold', ie, the percentage of money that's held and not given back to the player as wins. This percentage is based over lots (millions) of played games.

 

This hold percentage can vary from game type to game type and between

two machines of the same type by a lot. I've seen ranges of 10-20% difference between two machines of the same type at work.

 

Our casino is regulated that these holds cannot be changed without inserting

a special computer chip into the machine that lets us set a new hold percentage. US based casino's are also regulated by what's the largest 'hold' they can have. I've been told that all regions are different, what that number is in truck stops is not the same as Vegas and not the same as tribal casinos.

 

The people I work with say that ship-board casinos have no such regulations regarding maximum hold. That being said, if you hold 80% of a player's play, they'll never come back and the house will loose big in the long run. There is usually a mix throughout the floor and finding the slot that's set to be 'loose' and is ready to hit is luck and nothing else.

 

Ships can (but I have no info on if they do) change these percentages daily, even hourly, if they want, but you would see some tech inside the machine changing what looks like computer chips. The future may be different,

downloadable games and software changes are coming and then they could change the hold when you insert your card if they want to. For now, look at it as entertainment and if you win, enjoy your good luck.

 

This doesn't really cover table games which have some skill involved in player choices, but the odds there are also setup to favor the house in the long run.

 

For full disclosure, I rarely played at casino's before I started working for one because the games are always in the house's favor. I also have bad luck so I enjoy lurking in forums instead....cheaper actually.

 

Hopefully I've helped.

 

T.

[Bequia]

Cruise ship casinos do not depend on repeat business they're merely designed to be entertaining. With that being said, the casinos have such an advantage there is no need to "rig" the games or machines. I have noticed that more often then not the dealers make mistakes when paying out at the blackjack tables and the dice tables (usually in their favor) :cool:

[dkjretired]

I may get in trouble if anybody at work reads this but here's how slots work. (in case you haven't figured it out, I work at a casino).

 

The slot machines have a computer chip inside them that has a choice of 'hold', ie, the percentage of money that's held and not given back to the player as wins. This percentage is based over lots (millions) of played games.

 

This hold percentage can vary from game type to game type and between

two machines of the same type by a lot. I've seen ranges of 10-20% difference between two machines of the same type at work.

 

Our casino is regulated that these holds cannot be changed without inserting

a special computer chip into the machine that lets us set a new hold percentage. US based casino's are also regulated by what's the largest 'hold' they can have. I've been told that all regions are different, what that number is in truck stops is not the same as Vegas and not the same as tribal casinos.

 

The people I work with say that ship-board casinos have no such regulations regarding maximum hold. That being said, if you hold 80% of a player's play, they'll never come back and the house will loose big in the long run. There is usually a mix throughout the floor and finding the slot that's set to be 'loose' and is ready to hit is luck and nothing else.

 

Ships can (but I have no info on if they do) change these percentages daily, even hourly, if they want, but you would see some tech inside the machine changing what looks like computer chips. The future may be different,

downloadable games and software changes are coming and then they could change the hold when you insert your card if they want to. For now, look at it as entertainment and if you win, enjoy your good luck.

 

This doesn't really cover table games which have some skill involved in player choices, but the odds there are also setup to favor the house in the long run.

 

For full disclosure, I rarely played at casino's before I started working for one because the games are always in the house's favor. I also have bad luck so I enjoy lurking in forums instead....cheaper actually.

 

Hopefully I've helped.

 

T.

 

The casinos can change the chips but they are so costly that it is not cost effective for them to do so. Most of the casinos on ships are not owned by the cruise lines but by private concerns who rent the space. The one poster who mentioned about winning early in the cruise and not later brings up one "urban legand" about cruise ship casinos. Because those chips are so costly the ships just don't change the odds during a cruise. They don't have to do so.

 

Below is a real good link to info on cruise ship casinos.

 

http://www.cruise-casinos.com/CruiseLines/royalcaribbean.htm

[DesrtDrmr]

Touche,

Are not those holds based on long periods of time? Whenever I see a machine here, with a 98% payback, or even a 100% payback, I figure that that payout is over two years, or some such average, and if you get lucky, you just happened to get lucky! Yes?

Speaking of cruise ships, we have never been "lucky" on ships, except for one cruise at nickel machines.............there were two machines that paid everytime we played. We didn't win big, but we did play on their money, and we always consider that a win! :)