Who else thinks world Europa is a copy of the Oasis Class

[Fairsky84]

On 7/7/2022 at 4:47 PM, miraflores said:

Not sure, but I do know that the QN-class ships were originally supposed to be Celebrity ships (which is why there is no Viking Crown Lounge and you can still see "X"s in the windows of the Royal Esplanade.) But, during the process, Celebrity decided they didn't want them, so the design got bought by MSC...who then dropped them for the Vista Project design (which is really similar). 

 

Finally, Royal Caribbean signed on and got the ships built.  It's pretty obvious they're not like other RCL ships...and this is why.

I've never heard this before. Is there a source behind this? Just curious. Most of the big cruise companies "own" their ship designs so they can't be copied by competitors. However, there are cases where a shipyard develops a basic hull design and it's then used by different cruise lines. For example, Fincantieri created their Project Mille which was adapted by MSC for their Seaside-class ships as well as NCL for their Prima-class ships. 

 

I wonder if Meyer Werft created the design for the Quantum-class intending the ship for Celebrity or MSC before ultimately being bought by Royal Caribbean. The only problem with this is that Royal Caribbean tends to do their own ship designs rather than rely on shipyards. 

 

For example, I know that after buying Celebrity, Royal Caribbean developed the Radiance-class (built by Meyer Werft in Germany) and the Millennium-class (built by Chantiers de l'Atlantique in France) together. Although the ships look nothing alike, they have very similar 'bones' (hull designs and engineering). By RCI designing these ships with very similar hulls and having them built by different yards, they saved a lot of development costs. 

 

[JP350]

2 hours ago, Fairsky84 said:

I've never heard this before. Is there a source behind this? Just curious. Most of the big cruise companies "own" their ship designs so they can't be copied by competitors. However, there are cases where a shipyard develops a basic hull design and it's then used by different cruise lines. For example, Fincantieri created their Project Mille which was adapted by MSC for their Seaside-class ships as well as NCL for their Prima-class ships. 

 

I wonder if Meyer Werft created the design for the Quantum-class intending the ship for Celebrity or MSC before ultimately being bought by Royal Caribbean. The only problem with this is that Royal Caribbean tends to do their own ship designs rather than rely on shipyards. 

 

For example, I know that after buying Celebrity, Royal Caribbean developed the Radiance-class (built by Meyer Werft in Germany) and the Millennium-class (built by Chantiers de l'Atlantique in France) together. Although the ships look nothing alike, they have very similar 'bones' (hull designs and engineering). By RCI designing these ships with very similar hulls and having them built by different yards, they saved a lot of development costs. 

 

So shipyards design ships for the shipping companies or the shipping companies designer the ships themselves and then send that design over to the shipyard. Do the shipyard design the whole ship or just the bones so to speak. And did rccl build the ships at different yards so they could roll them out simatutanously. I’m guessing this is like airlines where airbus a plane manufacture reuses the fusealage of their previous planes to speed development time and keep down costs. Sry for all the questions this is just intregueing. 

[ocdb8r]

On 7/10/2022 at 1:30 AM, Fairsky84 said:

I've never heard this before. Is there a source behind this? Just curious. Most of the big cruise companies "own" their ship designs so they can't be copied by competitors. However, there are cases where a shipyard develops a basic hull design and it's then used by different cruise lines. For example, Fincantieri created their Project Mille which was adapted by MSC for their Seaside-class ships as well as NCL for their Prima-class ships. 

 

I wonder if Meyer Werft created the design for the Quantum-class intending the ship for Celebrity or MSC before ultimately being bought by Royal Caribbean. The only problem with this is that Royal Caribbean tends to do their own ship designs rather than rely on shipyards. 

 

This is the answer; almost all modern cruise ship design is done this way currently.  The shipyards create a "platform" design that then the cruise lines can tinker with to make their own.  The Project Mille design you reference is not only used for MSC Seaside class ships (the first to be built on this platform) but also the Virgin Voyages ships and the Project Leonardo class (as you mention, now Prima) ships on NCL.

 

There are clearly similarities between the RCCL Oasis Class and MSC World Class ships due to some of the core architectural designs.  I don't think we've seen enough of the World Europe to really understand how much they "borrow" from RCCL - bottom line, just because their are structural similarities, doesn't mean the actual product will be that similar.

[JP350]

10 hours ago, ocdb8r said:

This is the answer; almost all modern cruise ship design is done this way currently.  The shipyards create a "platform" design that then the cruise lines can tinker with to make their own.  The Project Mille design you reference is not only used for MSC Seaside class ships (the first to be built on this platform) but also the Virgin Voyages ships and the Project Leonardo class (as you mention, now Prima) ships on NCL.

 

There are clearly similarities between the RCCL Oasis Class and MSC World Class ships due to some of the core architectural designs.  I don't think we've seen enough of the World Europe to really understand how much they "borrow" from RCCL - bottom line, just because their are structural similarities, doesn't mean the actual product will be that similar.

Can you kind of explain what the project mile frame is. I cant understand if it's like dimensions or is it like a frame below the water this ship design process is confusing. 

[skyking]

On 7/7/2022 at 8:58 AM, loman said:

I saw a you tube video of the MSC Meraviglia and thought it was very nice .

Their promenade with the lit up ceiling was impressive .

Looked like a very classy ship . Im inclined to give it a go one day .

We were on the Meraviglia for New Years, it is a beautiful ship for sure. 

[skyking]

Something to keep in mind cruise lines tend to feed off each other and current trends.  The only thing I really haven't seen duplicated is the ice skating rink. 

 

Also it's the same ship yards building these impressive ships with that weird new front hull design, can we all talk about that for a second? 🙂

[Fairsky84]

1 hour ago, JP350 said:

Can you kind of explain what the project mile frame is. I cant understand if it's like dimensions or is it like a frame below the water this ship design process is confusing. 

Here's an image of the Project Mille model from Fincantieri. Most of the design is about the lower portion of the hull and the decks below the waterline—particularly the arrangement of engines and machinery. The most obvious change from other ships is the position of the engines in the middle of the hull. That's why the funnel is in the center of the ship rather than the aft. It creates better weight distribution, stability, and speed for the ship. 

This midship engine placement means a complete rethink of the upper decks and pools. This is why the MSC and NCL ships based on this design have pools at the lower aft deck. 

[JP350]

6 hours ago, skyking said:

Something to keep in mind cruise lines tend to feed off each other and current trends.  The only thing I really haven't seen duplicated is the ice skating rink. 

 

Also it's the same ship yards building these impressive ships with that weird new front hull design, can we all talk about that for a second? 🙂

I know they've seem to have forgotten to seem what a ship look like. That bow looks more like a new curved hotel design from las vegas. And don't even get me started on that orange stick of butter hanging off the side of the celebrity edge class of ships.

[JP350]

6 hours ago, skyking said:

We were on the Meraviglia for New Years, it is a beautiful ship for sure. 

How was Meravilgia and MSC i've never cruised with them, but they're offering a price we can't refuse for December. How do they compare to rccl and how was the ship overall.

[JP350]

4 hours ago, Fairsky84 said:

Here's an image of the Project Mille model from Fincantieri. Most of the design is about the lower portion of the hull and the decks below the waterline—particularly the arrangement of engines and machinery. The most obvious change from other ships is the position of the engines in the middle of the hull. That's why the funnel is in the center of the ship rather than the aft. It creates better weight distribution, stability, and speed for the ship. 

This midship engine placement means a complete rethink of the upper decks and pools. This is why the MSC and NCL ships based on this design have pools at the lower aft deck. 

Ah so the design is really a frame, but things above the waterline can be changed to the cruise companies liking. I'm guessing it's cheaper than a custom design, and they can put pools back there because they don't have the engine room below. Thanks for the info 😉

[ocdb8r]

4 hours ago, JP350 said:

Ah so the design is really a frame, but things above the waterline can be changed to the cruise companies liking. I'm guessing it's cheaper than a custom design, and they can put pools back there because they don't have the engine room below. Thanks for the info 😉

One of the main monikers of this "new design" was that it permitted extensive outdoor open air deck space compared to the most common cruise ship designs at the time.  You'll notice that all the ships based on this design have the large promenades on deck 7 or 8.  So yes, the different lines can tinker with what's above the waterline, but the structural design has to support some of these "innovations".

[notscb]

9 hours ago, JP350 said:

that orange stick of butter hanging off the side of the celebrity edge class of ships.

 

In all fairness, the "orange stick of Butter" helps these ships stand out and have been a huge marketing tool for Celebrity. The fact that it's multi-function and makes tendering a better experience for those onboard is also a huge +.

[notscb]

9 hours ago, JP350 said:

That bow looks more like a new curved hotel design from las vegas.

 

That bow design is also helpful at reducing emissions, improving speed, and reducing passenger experience of seasickness. In all honesty, it was about time we saw an improvement in this area, and we should all expect cruise lines to choose the design that will be most efficient going into a future where we need to be thinking about emissions and footprint.

[Fairsky84]

2 hours ago, notscb said:

 

In all fairness, the "orange stick of Butter" helps these ships stand out and have been a huge marketing tool for Celebrity. The fact that it's multi-function and makes tendering a better experience for those onboard is also a huge +.

I've not experienced the 'Flying Carpet' so my opinion may not matter, but I always thought the feature looked like scaffolding or construction equipment on the side of the ship. I think it's the orange paint. It certainly makes it visible, but not very attractive. 

I also wonder how such a huge, complicated mechanical feature will endure with time. Will maintenance be an issue after years of exposure to salt water and rust? I wouldn't be surprised if 10 or 15 years from now, these Magic Carpets are removed. 

[notscb]

3 minutes ago, Fairsky84 said:

Will maintenance be an issue after years of exposure to salt water and rust?

 

That's a great question. Ultimately it will be a financially motivated one. They seem to be going all in on this design and I've seen some really cool dining/bar/tender setup photos from it and it seems really neat.

 

You could ask the same quesiton about the North Star on RCL as well.

[JP350]

2 hours ago, notscb said:

 

In all fairness, the "orange stick of Butter" helps these ships stand out and have been a huge marketing tool for Celebrity. The fact that it's multi-function and makes tendering a better experience for those onboard is also a huge +.

I will say that when we were tendering on the edge the magic carpet made tendering a dream.

[twangster]

52 minutes ago, Fairsky84 said:

I've not experienced the 'Flying Carpet' so my opinion may not matter, but I always thought the feature looked like scaffolding or construction equipment on the side of the ship. I think it's the orange paint. It certainly makes it visible, but not very attractive. 

 

Better to live in an orange house rather than across the street from one.  😇

 

When you sit on the Magic carpet it provides really great views to the sea.  Some complain that some ships lack a connection the sea.  The Magic Carpet is a pretty great panoramic bar/outdoor patio to sit back and enjoy the sea.  It isn't ugly when sitting on it.    

 

Magic Carpet 360

[twangster]

12 hours ago, JP350 said:

How was Meravilgia and MSC i've never cruised with them, but they're offering a price we can't refuse for December. How do they compare to rccl and how was the ship overall.

 

Meraviglia is fine.  The cabin and ship decor is sort of modern art deco... sort of.  Internet uses O3b and is faster than Royal but they lock each internet plan to the first device that logs in so no sharing.  When it's cheap there is nothing wrong with MSC.  If I was paying comparable rates to Royal I'd pick Royal every time.  Their Yacht Club is a good product with good price points.  Non-YC is okay depending on tastes.  It can be "meh" at times so just keep reminding yourself what you paid.  Ocean Cay is a gem so if your cruise stops there it's nice especially if you get an overnight stay at OC.  

 

I still prefer Royal but for a cheap short getaway MSC is fine if you can roll with the differences and just enjoy a cheap cruise.

[JP350]

14 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Meraviglia is fine.  The cabin and ship decor is sort of modern art deco... sort of.  Internet uses O3b and is faster than Royal but they lock each internet plan to the first device that logs in so no sharing.  When it's cheap there is nothing wrong with MSC.  If I was paying comparable rates to Royal I'd pick Royal every time.  Their Yacht Club is a good product with good price points.  Non-YC is okay depending on tastes.  It can be "meh" at times so just keep reminding yourself what you paid.  Ocean Cay is a gem so if your cruise stops there it's nice especially if you get an overnight stay at OC.  

 

I still prefer Royal but for a cheap short getaway MSC is fine if you can roll with the differences and just enjoy a cheap cruise.

MSC is offering a 5 night cruise ocean cay and Costa Maya for 800 ish dollars with a 100 dollar onboard credit. The Royal cruise I’m looking at is a 4 night cruise on oasis of the seas to Labadee with 2 sea days for 1250 and no onboard credit. Both these cruises are over Christmas break so we can go with our kids. I know not the ideal time, but it’s the only time we have. We love Royal and have been on oasis 3 times, but we don’t know if Royal is worth all the extra money this time.

[twangster]

19 minutes ago, JP350 said:

MSC is offering a 5 night cruise ocean cay and Costa Maya for 800 ish dollars with a 100 dollar onboard credit. The Royal cruise I’m looking at is a 4 night cruise on oasis of the seas to Labadee with 2 sea days for 1250 and no onboard credit. Both these cruises are over Christmas break so we can go with our kids. I know not the ideal time, but it’s the only time we have. We love Royal and have been on oasis 3 times, but we don’t know if Royal is worth all the extra money this time.

 

Meraviglia doesn't have the stuff that Oasis has.  It's not fair putting any Oasis class ship against a more conventional ship. 

 

It will be more a classic cruise experience.  Not knowing your kids I don't know how they will do on Meraviglia.  There are things to do some of which are paid activities like bowling or the Formula 1 race simulator.  No My Time type dining unless you step up to Aurea experience.  You may be fine with the fixed time dining for the cheaper cabins.

 

Probably better to open this discussion outside of this thread.