Fine Print on Waiving of Negative Test

[MEFIowa]

40 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Typically sophomoric arguments.

Take some time to learn and understand the building evidence for long term implications of Covid. Now it’s not only life-threatening, it’s also “quality of life” threatening.

As for “get over it”: stop whining about the simple acts of take a test and wear a mask.

The science is clear... Get vaccinated & boosted. You'll all but ensure you stay out of the hospital and won't die. All those asymptomatic cases. Or the mild cases akin to the flu. BUT being vaccinated will NOT prevent you from getting COVID. So expect to get COVID at some point (not unlike the equally endemic flu).

 

IF, however, you have serious risk factors, avoid cruising!

 

Funny how you argue for ONE pre-embarkation test, but then YOU won't admit that such a test is meaningless if you don't also test after EVERY disembarkation & re-embarkation on the voyage. OR do you think the science says, "Only travellers from Minneapolis to Miami get COVID but when those same travellers get off at 6 Caribbean destinations they couldn't possibly get COVID so no need to test them when they return from their excursion and come back aboard"?

 

A single preembarkation test is theatre, a pretend, feel-good act of NO real scientific value for the vaccinated. The science of vaccination and testing. 

[tjm0701]

On 8/4/2022 at 1:00 PM, khuselid said:

Ok...don't shoot the messenger here. My O connected TA talked to the person who writes the FCC's for those who get sick while on an O ship. He said that if they are no longer requiring testing the clause that state one's won't be reimbursed, if not tested, no longer applies. It was a cut and paste document and that was a leftover from a prior policy.

 

The bottom line being that if you bring a negative test with you Oceania won't care and it doesn't make any difference. Think about it. If they aren't requiring negative tests from everyone then one could get covid from a fellow passenger who brought it with them....and O is willing to accept that risk. 

 

So, test for your own peace of mind, if you like, but it won't matter one way or another to O. You wouldn't be able to prove where you got it anyway. I got it in June and it was sick 3 days before I tested positive. Weird virus.

 

[tjm0701]

Are you sure about the comment that if you don’t get tested and then come down with Covid, you can still effectively still get reimbursed? I understand the logic that you could get it from someone else on the ship. And how could they prove it otherwise? Also agree that Oceania missives have confusing language. I have a cruise coming up in 2  1/2 weeks in Malta and my boarding pass says bring your negative tests results to the ship, In spite of the decision not to need a test, as of August 1st. 

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

11 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

The science is clear... Get vaccinated & boosted. You'll all but ensure you stay out of the hospital and won't die. All those asymptomatic cases. Or the mild cases akin to the flu. BUT being vaccinated will NOT prevent you from getting COVID. So expect to get COVID at some point (not unlike the equally endemic flu).

 

IF, however, you have serious risk factors, avoid cruising!

 

Funny how you argue for ONE pre-embarkation test, but then YOU won't admit that such a test is meaningless if you don't also test after EVERY disembarkation & re-embarkation on the voyage. OR do you think the science says, "Only travellers from Minneapolis to Miami get COVID but when those same travellers get off at 6 Caribbean destinations they couldn't possibly get COVID so no need to test them when they return from their excursion and come back aboard"?

 

A single preembarkation test is theatre, a pretend, feel-good act of NO real scientific value for the vaccinated. The science of vaccination and testing. 

Your logic needs an overhaul.

Anyway, I actually agree with regular testing throughout the cruise (even if only random). 
As for “theater,” you’re wrong again.
Cruise lines regularly test their mask-wearing, vaccinated crew at significant expense. Why? It protects their Human Resources (more so than the constantly changing/easily replaceable passengers). Cruise lines should do the same with passengers and it would be best for all concerned.

I have previously posited that there are enough regular and potential O cruisers who would fill O’s ships if a decision was made to return to the industry leading restrictions they employed at the beginning of the pandemic. O would again rise above the crowd and plenty of other public health conscious cruisers would jump ship from the lines that care more about selling tix to science deniers/avoiders.

 

Again, look at the bigger picture: Why, with minimal exceptions, do hospitals require anyone entering the building to be vaccinated/masked? Theater? DUH! 

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 minutes ago, tjm0701 said:

Are you sure about the comment that if you don’t get tested and then come down with Covid, you can still effectively still get reimbursed? I understand the logic that you could get it from someone else on the ship. And how could they prove it otherwise? Also agree that Oceania missives have confusing language. I have a cruise coming up in 2  1/2 weeks in Malta and my boarding pass says bring your negative tests results to the ship, In spite of the decision not to need a test, as of August 1st. 

 

 

We’ve already established that O notifications are never to be fully trusted. I doubt that Ortega actually writes them (or does the “cut and paste”) but this stuff comes out under his name and the least he could do is to make sure it gets proofread.

 

That said, anyone who believes second to third hand unpublished info from an unidentified source deserves what they get when they are possibly refused boarding. 

If for no other reason than to be fully insured while also contributing to protecting public health, do a pre-test.

[tjm0701]

3 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

We’ve already established that O notifications are never to be fully trusted. I doubt that Ortega actually writes them (or does the “cut and paste”) but this stuff comes out under his name and the least he could do is to make sure it gets proofread.

 

That said, anyone who believes second to third hand unpublished info from an unidentified source deserves what they get when they are possibly refused boarding. 

If for no other reason than to be fully insured while also contributing to protecting public health, do a pre-test.

Oceania doesn’t require testing, so how could I be refused boarding? Insurance is the main factor for me. So I generally agree with your comment that they could refuse compensation if you didn’t get a negative test before boarding. Fully vaccinated means, most likely,, no hospitalization, or death. Check the numbers

(if you can find them, the CDC doesn’t give out this important information easily, or readily, but other responsible health commentary is out there) we are getting back to colds and flu’s. And not going to experience Fauci’s comment and I quote “ we will Never do a hand shake again”. So irresponsible!

[khuselid]

35 minutes ago, tjm0701 said:

Are you sure about the comment that if you don’t get tested and then come down with Covid, you can still effectively still get reimbursed? I understand the logic that you could get it from someone else on the ship. And how could they prove it otherwise? Also agree that Oceania missives have confusing language. I have a cruise coming up in 2  1/2 weeks in Malta and my boarding pass says bring your negative tests results to the ship, In spite of the decision not to need a test, as of August 1st. 

 

 

I didn't comment on what would happen, just let ya'll know what O says. The clause is not applicable if they don't require testing. Whether they will reimburse you, or not, is probably a moving target. If I get the flu, while traveling, I don't imagine O would reimburse me for lost days. 

 

[khuselid]

25 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

We’ve already established that O notifications are never to be fully trusted. I doubt that Ortega actually writes them (or does the “cut and paste”) but this stuff comes out under his name and the least he could do is to make sure it gets proofread.

 

That said, anyone who believes second to third hand unpublished info from an unidentified source deserves what they get when they are possibly refused boarding. 

If for no other reason than to be fully insured while also contributing to protecting public health, do a pre-test.

I am not sure why such harsh rudeness is necessary, but to each his own. I wonder what skin you have in this game FF. I would test just because it seems like the kind and human thing to do. Being harsh with people doesn't usually encourage them to do the kind thing. I was just passing on what I learned. You, and others, can decide what to believe.

[bbtondo]

53 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

I have previously posited that there are enough regular and potential O cruisers who would fill O’s ships if a decision was made to return to the industry leading restrictions they employed at the beginning of the pandemic. O would again rise above the crowd and plenty of other public health conscious cruisers would jump ship from the lines that care more about selling tix to science deniers/avoiders.

 

 

JMHO  I have to disagree.  Look at Viking.  They took testing and contact tracing to a very high level.  Now, nothing. Why?  I believe the answer is $$$.  At this point I think most cruisers find this overkill and are booking other lines and not Viking.  I am one! Curious if my first cruise with O is full, or mostly empty like my Viking Ocean Cruise was last November.  And again JMHO

[khuselid]

49 minutes ago, bbtondo said:

JMHO  I have to disagree.  Look at Viking.  They took testing and contact tracing to a very high level.  Now, nothing. Why?  I believe the answer is $$$.  At this point I think most cruisers find this overkill and are booking other lines and not Viking.  I am one! Curious if my first cruise with O is full, or mostly empty like my Viking Ocean Cruise was last November.  And again JMHO

We did a Viking cruise in November and then an O cruise in March. I think both of those times the virus was at a low point. We were tested every day on Viking and just got used to it nbd. In March there were a few maybe cases on board? No one wanted to fess up that they were there, but there were only a few if any. Our upcoming August cruise is not full as far as we can tell. We take the same precautions we do at home. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, khuselid said:

I am not sure why such harsh rudeness is necessary, but to each his own. I wonder what skin you have in this game FF. I would test just because it seems like the kind and human thing to do. Being harsh with people doesn't usually encourage them to do the kind thing. I was just passing on what I learned. You, and others, can decide what to believe.

Like you, I test for myself and for the public good.

Harsh comments or not, the folks here who are offering all sorts of illogical rational for not testing/masking are not about to change their minds.

Moreover, perhaps you’ve yet to experience those folks on a cruise ship who admit they have had Covid symptoms while on board (usually after the fact) and then (somewhat proudly) state their refusal to have self reported to the Medical Center in order to avoid quarantine. Despicable. 
 

As for my “skin in the game,” suffice to say that I gain no monetary or publicity related benefits from promoting practices that maintain  responsible health and human services practices designed to protect you and me.

[Aloha 1]

23 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Like you, I test for myself and for the public good.

Harsh comments or not, the folks here who are offering all sorts of illogical rational for not testing/masking are not about to change their minds.

Moreover, perhaps you’ve yet to experience those folks on a cruise ship who admit they have had Covid symptoms while on board (usually after the fact) and then (somewhat proudly) state their refusal to have self reported to the Medical Center in order to avoid quarantine. Despicable. 
 

As for my “skin in the game,” suffice to say that I gain no monetary or publicity related benefits from promoting practices that maintain  responsible health and human services practices designed to protect you and me.

From a medical and recent experience standpoint, I have three points:

 

First, Covid IS now endemic like the flu. It appears true that getting at least the first two vaccine shots greatly reduces your risk of hospitalization and/or death. Statistics prove this out.

 

Second, the majority of medical experts also agree that roughly 80-90% of American have mostly likely already had at least one covid variant  and the latest ones, although highly contagious, do not appear to pose any greater risk of hospitalization or death and, in fact, appear weaker in that regard for the majority.

 

Third, based on our recent month long sojourn in Europe, the world is ready to move on and is moving on.There is no way the public will accept a return to 2020 rules and lockdowns.

 

The two schools of thought in this thread are understandable. The school in favor of continued testing will never get the other school to accept it. The other school of moving on will never be excepted by the school of continued testing. And so we have a stand off. It is what it is and none of us here can influence what O does or does not do. Only the individual can assess the risks and make their decision to travel or not travel.

[osandomir]

16 minutes ago, Aloha 1 said:

From a medical and recent experience standpoint, I have three points:

 

First, Covid IS now endemic like the flu. It appears true that getting at least the first two vaccine shots greatly reduces your risk of hospitalization and/or death. Statistics prove this out.

 

Second, the majority of medical experts also agree that roughly 80-90% of American have mostly likely already had at least one covid variant  and the latest ones, although highly contagious, do not appear to pose any greater risk of hospitalization or death and, in fact, appear weaker in that regard for the majority.

 

Third, based on our recent month long sojourn in Europe, the world is ready to move on and is moving on.There is no way the public will accept a return to 2020 rules and lockdowns.

 

The two schools of thought in this thread are understandable. The school in favor of continued testing will never get the other school to accept it. The other school of moving on will never be excepted by the school of continued testing. And so we have a stand off. It is what it is and none of us here can influence what O does or does not do. Only the individual can assess the risks and make their decision to travel or not travel.

I agree - it IS time to move on. Just decide for yourself and don’t tell Oceania and everybody else what they have to do.

[Flatbush Flyer]

24 minutes ago, Aloha 1 said:

From a medical and recent experience standpoint, I have three points:

 

First, Covid IS now endemic like the flu. It appears true that getting at least the first two vaccine shots greatly reduces your risk of hospitalization and/or death. Statistics prove this out.

 

Second, the majority of medical experts also agree that roughly 80-90% of American have mostly likely already had at least one covid variant  and the latest ones, although highly contagious, do not appear to pose any greater risk of hospitalization or death and, in fact, appear weaker in that regard for the majority.

 

Third, based on our recent month long sojourn in Europe, the world is ready to move on and is moving on.There is no way the public will accept a return to 2020 rules and lockdowns.

 

The two schools of thought in this thread are understandable. The school in favor of continued testing will never get the other school to accept it. The other school of moving on will never be excepted by the school of continued testing. And so we have a stand off. It is what it is and none of us here can influence what O does or does not do. Only the individual can assess the risks and make their decision to travel or not travel.

As for your medical perspective, you may want to do some current research based on findings at major university medical centers including Yale U., which this week in PNAS NEXUS suggested that declaring Covid an endemic now is quite premature. Their study (and collective medical wisdom) suggests 2024 at the earliest. I also suggest that you look at work being done at UC San Francisco.

As for the actual data, CC prohibits our citing actual Covid stats that would probably have you rethinking your statements.

 

Likewise, citing a single personal experience as evidence that the world is ready to move on is unsubstantiated by valid studies and data.

 

And missing from your response is any mention of the third major Covid concern (beyond death and hospitalization): long term effects which we already are finding can be substantial.

 

Where I do agree with you is that there’s a stand off pro/con on testing/masks (not to mention vaccination itself). But, the fact remains that cruise ships are akin to Petri dishes and the simple acts of vaccination, masks and testing do no harm while all offering some degree of prevention.

 

And, I remain convinced that, if O returned to its industry leading position on strong Covid restrictions (which it still maintains for its employees), its ships would fill with regular and new passengers desiring such a posture.

[Flatbush Flyer]

On 8/5/2022 at 10:47 AM, tjm0701 said:

Oceania doesn’t require testing, so how could I be refused boarding? Insurance is the main factor for me. So I generally agree with your comment that they could refuse compensation if you didn’t get a negative test before boarding. Fully vaccinated means, most likely,, no hospitalization, or death. Check the numbers

(if you can find them, the CDC doesn’t give out this important information easily, or readily, but other responsible health commentary is out there) we are getting back to colds and flu’s. And not going to experience Fauci’s comment and I quote “ we will Never do a hand shake again”. So irresponsible!

I just reread your post above.

The main issue is that Oceania keeps flip-flopping on required testing at embarkation. Should you get an Ortega email about your next cruise saying “testing is back” the day you’re flying out and you choose not to (or logistically cannot) pre-test, you would have to test at the pier at your expense (unless O goes back to “no charge”).

 

If that pier test is positive, you will be denied boarding and, per O’s past policy, the only way you could be reimbursed for Covid related expenses is by showing the negative results of that “recommended but not required” pretest.

Yes, in essence, the message to someone with no pretest would be “O assumes that you were positive before you left home and should’ve cancelled then” (which BTW, O would’ve refunded if you had a positive test within two weeks prior to embarkation).

 

So, though if pre-testing and/or pier testing is not required today, it may very well be required tomorrow (or the day before you leave). This is no different than port cancellations/changes - often made on the morning of your planned arrival in a port (for whatever reason).

 

[garyc20]

Still very confused on O's policy... If fully vaxed and do not have a negative test within 72 hours of getting on Insignia in France do they cover your cost

if you get Covid?? We also have trip insurance. Just do not want to go through the hassle of getting tested in Paris if we do not need to.

[roberts2005]

On 8/6/2022 at 9:33 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

I just reread your post above.

The main issue is that Oceania keeps flip-flopping on required testing at embarkation. Should you get an Ortega email about your next cruise saying “testing is back” the day you’re flying out and you choose not to (or logistically cannot) pre-test, you would have to test at the pier at your expense (unless O goes back to “no charge”).

 

If that pier test is positive, you will be denied boarding and, per O’s past policy, the only way you could be reimbursed for Covid related expenses is by showing the negative results of that “recommended but not required” pretest.

Yes, in essence, the message to someone with no pretest would be “O assumes that you were positive before you left home and should’ve cancelled then” (which BTW, O would’ve refunded if you had a positive test within two weeks prior to embarkation).

 

So, though if pre-testing and/or pier testing is not required today, it may very well be required tomorrow (or the day before you leave). This is no different than port cancellations/changes - often made on the morning of your planned arrival in a port (for whatever reason).

 

Not to confuse it more, but is Oceania still refunding if you test positive before the start of the cruise.

[garyc20]

Our trip insurance covers that. I believe Oceania covers refund but within a certain window.

[daleandrews]

1 hour ago, roberts2005 said:

Not to confuse it more, but is Oceania still refunding if you test positive before the start of the cruise.

As far as I can tell it looks as though the Oceania provisions concerning reimbursements related to testing positive before (or for that matter during) a cruise are no longer on their website.  This, along with their statements in several provisions that travelers should carry insurance for Covid-related expenses, leads me to believe that the reimbursement program no longer exists.  If this is the case it would be nice if Oceania had so stated rather than just eliminating the provisions.  

[roberts2005]

12 minutes ago, daleandrews said:

As far as I can tell it looks as though the Oceania provisions concerning reimbursements related to testing positive before (or for that matter during) a cruise are no longer on their website.  This, along with their statements in several provisions that travelers should carry insurance for Covid-related expenses, leads me to believe that the reimbursement program no longer exists.  If this is the case it would be nice if Oceania had so stated rather than just eliminating the provisions.  

If there is no testing requirement before boarding, why would someone, without insurance, tell Oceania they have tested positive for Covid.

[garyc20]

If you get covid and need medical help while onboard they will know. Not sure what type of cost is related to being in quarantine on the ship. Our cruise is Transatlantic so there is no sending you home.

[daleandrews]

Their earlier program, previously outlined on the Oceania website, was very generous.  It was in place when a pre-boarding test was still required.  Under it if you showed up and tested positive, but could show you had tested negative recently (I think it was 72 hours) your fare was reimbursed.  If you could NOT show such a prior test the fare was not reimbursed.  And then if you tested negative at boarding but later tested positive during the cruise you were given a per diem refund of your pro-rated fare.  And during any quarantine on board medical cossts were waived for services performed by the Oceania medical team. Also, if you were positive at the time of disembarking Oceania paid for quarantine costs at the disembarking port.  I was very surprised when I read about the program -- it struck me as more generous than a traveler should expect.  But, in any event, all references to that program are now gone as far as I can determine.  

Edited August 17, 2022 by daleandrews

[AMHuntFerry]

2 hours ago, garyc20 said:

Still very confused on O's policy... If fully vaxed and do not have a negative test within 72 hours of getting on Insignia in France do they cover your cost

if you get Covid?? We also have trip insurance. Just do not want to go through the hassle of getting tested in Paris if we do not need to.

No, O does not cover the costs associated with getting any illness anymore.

 

 

2 hours ago, roberts2005 said:

Not to confuse it more, but is Oceania still refunding if you test positive before the start of the cruise.

Check your Ticket Contract. The one I just received in my blue book provides FCC (or a refund if the law requires) if a passenger is refused at embarkation and has followed the rules (layman paraphrase).

 

 

1 hour ago, roberts2005 said:

If there is no testing requirement before boarding, why would someone, without insurance, tell Oceania they have tested positive for Covid.

If you test positive within 14 days before embarkation and don't tell them, you have broken the Ticket Contract and leave yourself open to all hell breaking loose.

[AMHuntFerry]

By the way, YOUR Ticket Contract is the be all and end all for your particular voyage, except where it is superseded (see contract intro) by https://www.oceaniacruises.com/health and the passenger rights doc (can't recall exact name...referenced in contract).

Plus, they can amend/modify the terms with a notification.

Edited August 17, 2022 by AMHuntFerry

[chloemonkey]

Still SO confused.....as we sail on August 28th out of Rome......stay onboard for the next voyage which begins September 4th.....so TWO different set of criteria to deal with.  I feel as though I am going to have to ask some of the lawyer kids to read all of the "stuff" as I hate to think it....but feel as though we have lost a LOT of rights and reimbursement possibilities.....and the new docs are written in a way to not actually say that?  Just my humble opinion......But I am a bit niffed that all of this is happening after final payment, thousands more spent on beverage packages, airfare, extras.......It just begins to get overwhelming trying to understand it all.....