Mouthwash Container

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I agree that it is a problem in some quarters but I choose to believe the last administration took their environmental stance seriously especially with their wise program of removing inefficient ships when the time came and building energy efficient ships to replace.  I know they also increasingly rely on software for extreme fuel efficient operations, water conservation and waste disposal.

What?  I'm assuming you refer to the "last administration" as Arnold Donald's tenure?  During his tenure, their "environmental stance" was to promote and nurture a culture of non-compliance, and obfuscating with regulators for decades.  Their new ships are not significantly more energy efficient than older ones.  Are you referring to the LNG ships?  Maybe read up on "methane slip" and natural gas' effects on the environment compared to carbon dioxide (hint, it is about 200 times as damaging).  They switched to LNG for cost, and accepted an environmental benefit as a good PR move.  As for "waste disposal", the only reason that they are making any progress on this at all, and it is extremely limited, is because they are required to do so by the courts, under penalty of further fines.  When a line is under probation for environmental violations, and then continue to have over 200 violations found by auditors two years later, there is no corporate culture at the Executive level towards environmental compliance.  The recent announcement about "upgrades" that Carnival has announced for their ships, most of these were adopted by other lines decades ago.

[Mary229]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

What?  I'm assuming you refer to the "last administration" as Arnold Donald's tenure?  During his tenure, their "environmental stance" was to promote and nurture a culture of non-compliance, and obfuscating with regulators for decades.  Their new ships are not significantly more energy efficient than older ones.  Are you referring to the LNG ships?  Maybe read up on "methane slip" and natural gas' effects on the environment compared to carbon dioxide (hint, it is about 200 times as damaging).  They switched to LNG for cost, and accepted an environmental benefit as a good PR move.  As for "waste disposal", the only reason that they are making any progress on this at all, and it is extremely limited, is because they are required to do so by the courts, under penalty of further fines.  When a line is under probation for environmental violations, and then continue to have over 200 violations found by auditors two years later, there is no corporate culture at the Executive level towards environmental compliance.  The recent announcement about "upgrades" that Carnival has announced for their ships, most of these were adopted by other lines decades ago.

I know they had a record but if you read the link (2020) I posted and have monitored their environmental actions and statements in the past few years there was a marked change. It seemed as if it was Donald’s mea culpa.   I don’t know if this will continue with the new CEO or not.  I do believe the pandemic gave them an opportunity to address some issues and I do believe they took that opportunity and enacted some very worthwhile measures.  I am hoping cruise ships, at least in this fleet, won’t be massive, lumbering ocean hogs with a greasy slick in their wake.  
 

i guess I am not as cynical as some,  I am willing to see where this leads .  Also sometimes obfuscation is merely legal positioning and sometimes regulators are wrong

Edited September 18, 2022 by Mary229

[chengkp75]

16 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I know they had a record but if you read the link (2020) I posted and have monitored their environmental actions and statements in the past few years there was a marked change. It seemed as if it was Donald’s mea culpa.   I don’t know if this will continue with the new CEO or not.  I do believe the pandemic gave them an opportunity to address some issues and I do believe they took that opportunity and enacted some very worthwhile measures.  I am hoping cruise ships, at least in this fleet, won’t be massive, lumbering ocean hogs with a greasy slick in their wake.  
 

i guess I am not as cynical as some,  I am willing to see where this leads .  Also sometimes obfuscation is merely legal positioning and sometimes regulators are wrong

Carnival's problems go so far beyond plastic, that the organization they are joining is only addressing one of many violations they have had over the years, and the plastic problem has been dogging Carnival for over 2 decades.  Whether this converts to actual action on the ships, and an environmental compliance division that actually has the authority and budget to make compliance an actuality is yet to be determined.  If you want ships that don't have a "greasy slick" behind them, Carnival has not shown any real commitment to doing this.  Their violations have continued into this very year, with being found in violation of their probation again in January this year, which is later than your link about the plastics organization.

 

And, by obfuscating, I was being generous, referring to actual acts done by crew, and condoned by corporate to specifically violate regulations and hide the violations from the regulators.  That is not "legal positioning", it is a violation of the law itself, and the regulators are enforcing the laws of the US and international conventions, that every other ship in the world also have to abide by.  Has Carnival appealed any of the violations noted both that caused the original convictions, and also the probation violations?  Nope.  They know they are wrong, they didn't even bother to appear in court until ordered to do so by the judge.

 

Frankly, I feel Arnold Donald retired because he saw the possibility of criminal liability for Carnival's continued lack of compliance.

Edited September 18, 2022 by chengkp75

[Mary229]

17 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Carnival's problems go so far beyond plastic, that the organization they are joining is only addressing one of many violations they have had over the years, and the plastic problem has been dogging Carnival for over 2 decades.  Whether this converts to actual action on the ships, and an environmental compliance division that actually has the authority and budget to make compliance an actuality is yet to be determined.  If you want ships that don't have a "greasy slick" behind them, Carnival has not shown any real commitment to doing this.  Their violations have continued into this very year, with being found in violation of their probation again in January this year, which is later than your link about the plastics organization.

 

And, by obfuscating, I was being generous, referring to actual acts done by crew, and condoned by corporate to specifically violate regulations and hide the violations from the regulators.  That is not "legal positioning", it is a violation of the law itself, and the regulators are enforcing the laws of the US and international conventions, that every other ship in the world also have to abide by.  Has Carnival appealed any of the violations noted both that caused the original convictions, and also the probation violations?  Nope.  They know they are wrong, they didn't even bother to appear in court until ordered to do so by the judge.

 

Frankly, I feel Arnold Donald retired because he saw the possibility of criminal liability for Carnival's continued lack of compliance.

I will take your research at your word but back on topic -  any compliance, even minor, is helpful.  People become angry with the big guys but seem completely against giving up anything themselves.  If banning passengers from bringing plastic bottle reduces ocean plastics I am willing to comply. It seems reasonable in my mind.  
 

I would never, in public, make legal accusations against an individual 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Mary229

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I would never, in public, make legal accusations against an individual 

I am not making accusations, I'm stating facts.  Donald was personally liable for the past violations by Carnival, and any revocation of probation.  In addition, he was facing contempt charges at the end of last year:

 

https://www.floridabulldog.org/2022/01/carnivals-arison-donald-faced-criminal-contempt-before-signing-probation-deal/

[Florida_gal_50]

54 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I will take your research at your word but back on topic -  any compliance, even minor, is helpful.  People become angry with the big guys but seem completely against giving up anything themselves.  If banning passengers from bringing plastic bottle reduces ocean plastics I am willing to comply. It seems reasonable in my mind.  
 

I would never, in public, make legal accusations against an individual 

Then they need to hold everyone to this standard.  They certainly aren’t holding their crew to this.  This is more about a money grab then anything else so they can charge ridiculous prices for water.  I tire of companies that do things to “appear” to do environmentally proper things with one hand and disregard it with the other. Like I said earlier I think they should prevent people from bring their weight on in bottled water, but one or 2 bottles make zero difference.  Feel free to give up your water bottle for me.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Florida_gal_50

[Mary229]

24 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Then they need to hold everyone to this standard.  They certainly aren’t holding their crew to this.  This is more about a money grab then anything else so they can charge ridiculous prices for water.  I tire of companies that do things to “appear” to do environmentally proper things with one hand and disregard it with the other. Like I said earlier I think they should prevent people from bring their weight on in bottled water, but one or 2 bottles make zero difference.  Feel free to give up your water bottle for me.

I don’t question your opinion.  I am not clear on what you mean by holding their crew to this.   Are the crew carrying plastic bottles onboard?

[Chickadee910]

I just meant that tsa would throw it away before you even made the plane if it’s in your carryon….

[AFNavigator]

5 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I disagree with his analysis.  I choose to believe this

 

https://www.carnivalcorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/carnival-corporation-joins-ocean-plastics-leadership-network

I applaud Carnival for saying they are taking a series of actions to, "...significantly reducing purchase and consumption of non-essential single-use plastics by the end of 2021."  That's a great statement but Carnival fails to "walk the walk" every time they sell a 12-pack of the very "non-essential single-use" plastic bottles they say they are working to eliminate.

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, AFNavigator said:

I applaud Carnival for saying they are taking a series of actions to, "...significantly reducing purchase and consumption of non-essential single-use plastics by the end of 2021."  That's a great statement but Carnival fails to "walk the walk" every time they sell a 12-pack of the very "non-essential single-use" plastic bottles they say they are working to eliminate.

Are they doing that?  I haven’t seen any plastic water bottles onboard this year 

[Mary229]

Here is what I see available for my next cruise

 

 

[AFNavigator]

4 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Are they doing that?  I haven’t seen any plastic water bottles onboard this year 

You are correct about HAL not selling plastic bottled water.  I was referring to the policy on Carnival Cruise Line, a sister line of HAL.

 

I based my statement on information in the FAQ section currently posted on Carnival's website.  In the "What is Carnival's Liquor & Beverage Policy?" section there is the following Bottled Water sub-section.

 

Bottled Water

For convenience, guests can purchase bottled water prior to the cruise and it will be delivered to the stateroom on embarkation day. Bottled water may also be purchased on board by contacting room service. Once on board, the purchase is non-refundable and guests may take home any unopened bottles.

 

To ensure we have an ample supply, please visit The Fun Shops™ at www.carnival.com/funshops to place your order before your cruise.

 

$4.95 USD (plus an 18% delivery fee) for a 12-pack of bottled water (16.9-ounce bottle/500-ml bottle)

$3.95 USD (plus an 18% delivery fee) for 1 large bottled water (50.72-ounce bottle/1.5-liter bottle)

$20.00 USD (plus an 18% delivery fee) for 8-pack of bottled water (50.72-ounce bottle/1.5-liter bottle) 

Edited September 18, 2022 by AFNavigator
Added Information

[Mary229]

@AFNavigator  see my screenshot above

[AFNavigator]

1 minute ago, Mary229 said:

@AFNavigator  see my screenshot above

Yes, I saw your screenshot just after my post.  Sorry about the confusion...I was referring to Carnival Cruise Line's bottled water policy, not HAL's.

 

That said, if CCL Corporate is working to eliminate use of those kind of single-use bottles across their fleet, why is their policy not consistent across all their cruise lines?  Why is it not OK to sell the bottles on one line but is OK on another sister line?

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, AFNavigator said:

Yes, I saw your screenshot just after my post.  Sorry about the confusion...I was referring to Carnival Cruise Line's bottled water policy, not HAL's.

 

That said, if CCL Corporate is working to eliminate use of those kind of single-use bottles across their fleet, why is their policy not consistent across all their cruise lines?  Why is it not OK to sell the bottles on one line but is OK on another sister line?

I don’t know what they are doing elsewhere but yes if they are selling plastic bottles they should stop.  If you find out a first hand account please keep us updated. I wish they would get rid of the single servings all together and use the dispensers they have on the pinnacle class ships. That makes the most sense 

[Florida_gal_50]

32 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I don’t question your opinion.  I am not clear on what you mean by holding their crew to this.   Are the crew carrying plastic bottles onboard?

Absolutely they are.  There was a picture taken by someone (I’m not going to bust them) and posted on this board.  Iirc that person (crew clearly) was carrying a few large bottles of water back on to the ship.  I don’t begrudge the crew.  That’s not the point I’m trying to make but clearly it’s not a problem.

[Florida_gal_50]

12 minutes ago, AFNavigator said:

Yes, I saw your screenshot just after my post.  Sorry about the confusion...I was referring to Carnival Cruise Line's bottled water policy, not HAL's.

 

That said, if CCL Corporate is working to eliminate use of those kind of single-use bottles across their fleet, why is their policy not consistent across all their cruise lines?  Why is it not OK to sell the bottles on one line but is OK on another sister line?

Sing it 👏👏.  My vote for post of the day.  If I could get that price for water on hal I’d be all over it.  I like to take a few bottles ashore.  I’m a water drinker (about 3 litres a day).  I generally don’t drink that much on vacation because it’s not easy if you are ashore but I try to get 2 litres in a day.  I have no desire to bring a reusable water bottle with me.  That’s just precious space I can use for something else.

[StLouisCruisers]

1 hour ago, AFNavigator said:

Yes, I saw your screenshot just after my post.  Sorry about the confusion...I was referring to Carnival Cruise Line's bottled water policy, not HAL's.

 

That said, if CCL Corporate is working to eliminate use of those kind of single-use bottles across their fleet, why is their policy not consistent across all their cruise lines?  Why is it not OK to sell the bottles on one line but is OK on another sister line?

 

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

I don’t know what they are doing elsewhere but yes if they are selling plastic bottles they should stop.  If you find out a first hand account please keep us updated. I wish they would get rid of the single servings all together and use the dispensers they have on the pinnacle class ships. That makes the most sense 

 

In June small plastic water bottles were handed out when ordered on our beverage package.  Princess cruises.