Haven Sundeck and Children

[cruiseny4life]

2 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

I don’t think it’s a big deal either way, but I can’t imagine what a drunk adult could say that would make a 14 year old boy clutch his pearls. I’ve had 2 14 year old sons (and 3 14 year old daughters). Xbox live alone!

Oh trust me, I know! But, I know parents who would screech if they heard the word "heck" said in front of their kid. Yes, I'm serious....so I'm with you on the child not really caring about hearing something. It's about the parent hearing it said in front of their kid.

 

On my last cruise, we were in the Atrium learning how to tie balloon animals. On the right was a family with a tween. On the left were a group of adults that had been imbibing. We made a couple of jokes, not even very bad (no cussing, no explicit language), and the dad was quick to mention "there are kids around." Obviously we ignored daddio and continued having a good time.

[cruising sister]

I am truly flabbergasted at this parents attitude towards rules. I am a pediatrician and practiced for 30 years and have seen lots of entitled parents and kids who felt rules did not apply to them. I have seen many of them come back confused why their precious offspring broke their family rules and want to blame it on others. My advice is to stop trying to reason this out as there is no win here. Even if others are breaking rules the best message to our children is that we follow them. You will never go wrong with that advice. I was on the Joy in the Haven and the sun deck chairs were hard to come by. 

P.S.  I love to travel child free and I love kids, I just don’t want them around all the time quiet or not. 

[PATRLR]

5 hours ago, IronRobi said:

Sounds very discriminatory of you. Since you clearly discriminate against age, do you also discriminate against gender and race?

 

Discrimination - Noun: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

 

I don't think this is who you truly are as a person, however when you make statements such as "I just don't like kids for no specific reason", this is how you come across. 

You might want to pay attention to that definition you posted.  I stated how I feel.  Feelings aren't treatments.  Not even close.  When you make statements like the posting above, you come across as someone who lacks basic understanding of the English language.

 

For the record, I love kids, I raised one, not that I give a care what you or anyone else thinks about me.  My statement and point was for the sake of this conversation.  

[PATRLR]

3 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

I don’t think it’s a big deal either way, but I can’t imagine what a drunk adult could say that would make a 14 year old boy clutch his pearls. I’ve had 2 14 year old sons (and 3 14 year old daughters). Xbox live alone!

You are probably correct.  A more likely scenario is that the adult doesn't feel comfortable talking about "whatever" because there is a child present.  The adult shouldn't have to worry about children being present, regardless of how well behaved.

[Cruising Lynne]

At this point I hope that IronRobi is just trolling everyone. I like to think that there is not actually someone who has such disregard for rules here, or on one of our cruises. Rules exist for a reason. Some may be bent, such as speed limits, but that does not mean that all rules should be bent or broken. Without rules, we as a society become less civilized, and devolve into chaos.

 

If I pay for the Haven that has an adult free area, that is how I expect it to be. No one should have to be put on the spot by some one else  bringing their under 16 child there. Does not matter how quiet they are. They are not entitled to be there. No one should have to explain why the child's presence bothers them.

[stefmaia]

52 minutes ago, Cruising Lynne said:

If I pay for the Haven that has an adult free area, that is how I expect it to be. No one should have to be put on the spot by some one else  bringing their under 16 child there. Does not matter how quiet they are. They are not entitled to be there. No one should have to explain why the child's presence bothers them.

 

I pay specifically (and sometimes through the nose) because there is an area that is child free.

The little angels are free to overrun and swarm the rest of the ship and I will get out of their way and even at times make comment on how " well-behaved, cute, adorable or precious" they may be.

 

 

 

 

[IronRobi]

5 hours ago, Cruising Lynne said:

At this point I hope that IronRobi is just trolling everyone. I like to think that there is not actually someone who has such disregard for rules here, or on one of our cruises. Rules exist for a reason. Some may be bent, such as speed limits, but that does not mean that all rules should be bent or broken. 

Not a troll, just honestly don't see how people see this as such a massive deal. If some rules may be bent, how does one choose which ones are OK to bend and which ones aren't? My opinion would be the ones that if broken cause no harm to anybody and aren't broken by a large amount, would be the ones that are OK to bend. And in the example this person posted of the quiet 14 year old sitting with mom and dad... that's not really affecting anybody.

 

To be very clear, my opinion is entirely different if said 14yr old sneaks up alone. Or is playing music or causing any sort of disturbance. Bringing friends with them. The deck area is completely full. etc... etc... I'm happy that NCL also seems to have a bit of leniency on this because they only seem to enforce it when it's absolutely needed. 

[KateQ22003]

9 hours ago, IronRobi said:

Not a troll, just honestly don't see how people see this as such a massive deal. If some rules may be bent, how does one choose which ones are OK to bend and which ones aren't? My opinion would be the ones that if broken cause no harm to anybody and aren't broken by a large amount, would be the ones that are OK to bend. And in the example this person posted of the quiet 14 year old sitting with mom and dad... that's not really affecting anybody.

 

To be very clear, my opinion is entirely different if said 14yr old sneaks up alone. Or is playing music or causing any sort of disturbance. Bringing friends with them. The deck area is completely full. etc... etc... I'm happy that NCL also seems to have a bit of leniency on this because they only seem to enforce it when it's absolutely needed. 

Just because they don't cause harm to you or aren't "broken by a large amount" does not mean they aren't broken and it doesn't mean they don't affect others. You are absolutely wrong to say that breaking rules doesn't affect anybody; it certainly affects those who were promised an adult-only sundeck. 

 

You still haven't answered what you think the cruise line should do with all the others under 16 that decide because one person has someone up there against the rules means everyone else gets to as well. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think your child is a special case, but the rest need to stay away? How is NCL supposed to handle that? Why is the sundeck with the Haven pool not enough for you? I'm confused why that small patch of real estate is so important to you when you have the rest of the ship and the Haven at your disposal.

 

[cruising sister]

It’s all about entitlement. There will be no convincing them that they need to follow the rules. Very sad that this is the lesson they are giving their child. I have seen it time and time again. Basically the lesson is if you can get away with breaking the rule go for it until you are caught then complain that it is unfair. 

[KP@Sea]

If we are allowing children in the adult area, does this mean I get to hang out in the teen club? Maybe play a few video games…

[dandelpino]

On 11/5/2022 at 10:26 PM, pcakes122 said:

But NCL says the Haven Sundeck will be kid-free and some people may actually upgrade just for that reason. If they aren't going to enforce that rule, they should just eliminate it.

 

I agree they should. As someone else posted, they should enforce noise and disruptiveness, not age. If the mere presence of a child is bothersome to someone, then NCL is simply not the right cruise line for that person. NCL is a family cruise line so children are to be expected.

 

On 11/5/2022 at 10:26 PM, pcakes122 said:

Also, "entire decks"? Have you been to the Haven Sundeck? We're talking about a relatively small section on the ship. 

 

I have indeed been there. If you re-read my comment you will see that it was not an original though, it was in reply at this person, whom I quoted in my comment:

 

On 10/27/2022 at 9:00 AM, Laszlo said:

I miss the days of the "Freestyle" Decks on the Jewel class ships. I think it was nobody under 18 or 21

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by dandelpino

[RocketMan275]

5 minutes ago, dandelpino said:

I agree they should. As someone else posted, they should enforce noise and disruptiveness, not age. If the mere presence of a child is bothersome to someone, then NCL is simply not the right cruise line for that person. NCL is a family cruise line so children are to be expected.

Why should anyone expect childen in an adult only area?

[dandelpino]

23 hours ago, cruising sister said:

P.S.  I love to travel child free and I love kids, I just don’t want them around all the time quiet or not. 

 

I would think you'd be happier on a cruise line that doesn't cater to families with kids. There are plenty of option that either directly exclude children or offer no activities so as to discourage children. 

[dandelpino]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Why should anyone expect childen in an adult only area?

 

I don't know. I never said that. I said I agree with the quoted statement: If they aren't going to enforce that rule, they should just eliminate it"

[cruiseny4life]

7 minutes ago, dandelpino said:

 

I agree they should. As someone else posted, they should enforce noise and disruptiveness, not age. If the mere presence of a child is bothersome to someone, then NCL is simply not the right cruise line for that person. NCL is a family cruise line so children are to be expected.

 

Just now, dandelpino said:

 

I would think you'd be happier on a cruise line that doesn't cater to families with kids. There are plenty of option that either directly exclude children or offer no activities so as to discourage children. 

Or...just enforce the rules (and I know you agree). That's all anyone is asking. What's the Haven sundeck? Probably 1/4th or 1/5th of the Haven (not counting rooms)? If that much. Is it that hard to keep one's progeny out of that one area? 

 

Frankly a kid on the sundeck, unless a toddler (we've had this conversation before) isn't going to bother me, but I see why others are upset by a kid/teen's presence. They want to spend hours on the Haven 16+ sundeck not dealing with kids. And then a kid is there, ruining the atmosphere. 

 

Actually, now that I think of it, there were two kids on the Haven sundeck (16+) on our cruise in September. I just remembered this and they didn't bother me at all. I wonder if anyone else was bothered? I didn't report them. I did have a conversation with them and their parents. They were interesting kids and one of them was really enjoying the view of the Kennedy Space Center. 

 

The point is...just enforce the rule. Kids don't belong, per NCL's rule. Or, if it's not going to be enforced, get rid of it and don't market it as a 16+ space.

[pcakes122]

50 minutes ago, dandelpino said:

 

I agree they should. As someone else posted, they should enforce noise and disruptiveness, not age. If the mere presence of a child is bothersome to someone, then NCL is simply not the right cruise line for that person. NCL is a family cruise line so children are to be expected.

 

 

I have indeed been there. If you re-read my comment you will see that it was not an original though, it was in reply at this person, whom I quoted in my comment:

 

 

 

The "Freestyle" decks were not entire decks either. 

 

While NCL is open to families, they also compete directly with Celebrity and Royal Caribbean which BOTH have adults-only areas (Solarium) which no one seems to have any issue with.

[RocketMan275]

49 minutes ago, dandelpino said:

 

I don't know. I never said that. I said I agree with the quoted statement: If they aren't going to enforce that rule, they should just eliminate it"

But you did say:  "NCL is a family cruise line so children are to be expected."

I would like to hear your explanation of why someone should expect children in an adults only area.

[dandelpino]

5 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

The "Freestyle" decks were not entire decks either. 

 

While NCL is open to families, they also compete directly with Celebrity and Royal Caribbean which BOTH have adults-only areas (Solarium) which no one seems to have any issue with.

 

Well I'd argue they're not comparable. RCCL doesn't have a suite-only sundeck on current ships (Icon OTS will). The Solarium on RCCL is open at all pax so it's more like Spice H2O on NCL. The best comparison to the Haven Sundeck is Celebrity's Retreat Sundeck, which does allow children.  

[pcakes122]

22 minutes ago, dandelpino said:

 

Well I'd argue they're not comparable. RCCL doesn't have a suite-only sundeck on current ships (Icon OTS will). The Solarium on RCCL is open at all pax so it's more like Spice H2O on NCL. The best comparison to the Haven Sundeck is Celebrity's Retreat Sundeck, which does allow children.  

RCCL Solarium was 16+ only the last time I was on the Anthem. When did that change?

[dandelpino]

2 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

RCCL Solarium was 16+ only the last time I was on the Anthem. When did that change?

 

It still is. Sorry I should have said open to all 16+ pax. Meaning not exclusive to suite guests. 

[Two Wheels Only]

46 minutes ago, dandelpino said:

Well I'd argue they're not comparable. RCCL doesn't have a suite-only sundeck on current ships (Icon OTS will). The Solarium on RCCL is open at all pax so it's more like Spice H2O on NCL. The best comparison to the Haven Sundeck is Celebrity's Retreat Sundeck, which does allow children.  

 

 

Wonder OTS has the Suite Neighborhood which is also child-friendly. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Two Wheels Only

[Two Wheels Only]

48 minutes ago, dandelpino said:

The best comparison to the Haven Sundeck is Celebrity's Retreat Sundeck, which does allow children.  

 

I'd put MSC's Yacht Club sundeck as the best comparison to NCL's Haven sundeck. All ages of Yacht Club guests are allowed on their sundeck. 

[pcakes122]

52 minutes ago, dandelpino said:

 

Well I'd argue they're not comparable. RCCL doesn't have a suite-only sundeck on current ships (Icon OTS will). The Solarium on RCCL is open at all pax so it's more like Spice H2O on NCL. The best comparison to the Haven Sundeck is Celebrity's Retreat Sundeck, which does allow children.  

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. RCCL and Celebrity both have adults-only areas for "general paying" passengers -  all the more reason for the general public to complain. NCL has restricted a very small area for suites-only guests that are paying a premium for it (remember that the Haven Courtyard and pool is open to all ages.)

 

Parents who don't want to comply should book elsewhere. 

[cruising sister]

2 hours ago, dandelpino said:

 

I would think you'd be happier on a cruise line that doesn't cater to families with kids. There are plenty of option that either directly exclude children or offer no activities so as to discourage children. 

Even Disney cruise line has adult only areas. We can have both if people respect the rules. 

[dandelpino]

1 hour ago, pcakes122 said:

Parents who don't want to comply should book elsewhere. 

 

I understand that's your opinion but I doubt NCL executives would agree. Do you really think they would send their most profitable guests - families in the Haven - to their competitors over this?