Train from Livorno to Florence

[Macdooger4]

On 12/12/2022 at 9:12 PM, marazul said:

You could stay overnight in Florence.  Enjoy lots of time and dinner there and next day go to Pisa on the way back to the ship. 

Do you have any hotesl you can recommend in Florence? 

[marazul]

2 minutes ago, Macdooger4 said:

So we are reconsidering a hotel in Florence, this way we will have the entire day/night and the morning to explore. Any reccs for a decent hotel thats not too pricey and is near all the sights?

Look at post #22 for a good area to stay.  Just go on a hotel search engine and look for places around there.  

[Macdooger4]

On 12/19/2022 at 12:38 PM, cruisemom42 said:

We have stayed at several locations in Florence. Just wanted to say that one of those was at a lovely hotel near the train station -- we did not hear any noise and thought the area nice enough -- perhaps not THE prettiest area but Florence is not like Rome in that the area around the train station is fairly unattractive. We were just next to the Basilica of Santa Maria Novella (it was between us and the train station).  Hotel Santa Maria Novella -- Very convenient to drop any bags from train station and also easy to get everywhere.  Probably not in a budget price-range in high season (we were able to get a rate just above $100/night in November....).  Plenty of good eateries nearby and safe of an evening to walk anywhere.

 

Thank you, we are now considering staying the night in Florence. Do you have other hotes to recommend? I will also look into the one you mention above.

[Macdooger4]

Just now, marazul said:

Look at post #22 for a good area to stay.  Just go on a hotel search engine and look for places around there.  

Oh thank you!  Still can't quite figure out how to find topics.

[edinburgher]

I posted this a couple of days ago, but in error  on the thread re" car services from Livorno station to the port"  rather than this one as intended.  Thinking it might be important enough info to post again but on this thread as more people might see it and be aware of the possibility it could happen to them.

 

Be aware that transport strikes in Italy are a common occurance, (especially train strikes)which is the reason for a website (in Italian) which details strikes ahead of time. Commisione di Garanzia Sciopera

 

It is also possible to find out which trains and routes are guaranteed to run even on strike dates and  this info can be found on the Trenitalia web site. You could try googling something like "Italian trains guaranteed to run on strike dates"

 

Our last visit to Livorno was an overnight and as we planned to stay the night in Florence we booked a hotel and planned our sightseeing for the approx 1 and 1/2 days and the evening we would have there. As we knew about the potential for strikes through online research, we checked the website quite regularly, and on one of these times we discovered that the day we planned to return to Livorno to rejoin the ship had been added to strike dates for the train companies running that route.. 

 

Although there were alternative means of travel between Florence and Livorno, (had contacted Tourist Info Offices in both Florence and Livorno for guidance)we decided they would be extra busy and  too  circuitous and risky, so we reluctantly cancelled our hotel booking,fortunately in good enough time to get a full refund.but were  left very disappointed.that a much anticipated visit to Florence did not happen.

 

 

SCIOPERA (strike) is unfortunately one of those Italian words you really do not want to have in your vocabulary!

 

Only wanting to add for anyone reading this, that even if only planning to travel by train to Florence for one day  it might be a good idea to check ahead  that trains will be running on the date you want to travel as, if not,  forewarned you would have time to make alternative sightseeing plans.

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by edinburgher

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, edinburgher said:

Be aware that transport strikes in Italy are a common occurance, (especially train strikes)which is the reason for a website (in Italian) which details strikes ahead of time. Commisione di Garanzia Sciopera

 

Good info, although I would just add that saying they are a "common occurrence" may lead people to think they are more frequent than they really are. Many strikes are localized by region, not general (e.g., not for the whole of Italy) so you have to read the details carefully but I'd be surprised if there is more than one strike impacting Trenitalia in Toscana every 2-3 months.  Also note that an announced strike can be canceled in advance of it occurring (as happened recently with two strikes impacting the Tuscany region).

 

When strikes do occur, they can cause problems as they usually run for a good part of the day. Certain trains are still guaranteed to run during this period but one has to be extra careful in checking out all of the details.

 

[euro cruiser]

Yes, I would not use the word "common", which to me would mean something more than 50% of the time.  I'm not even sure I would say "frequent", as in any given area there might be three or four strikes in a year.  Unfortunately, if it happens on the one day you want to travel, it might as well happen every day.  We DIYers always need to have a backup plan in mind, just in case.

[edinburgher]

 I used the word "common" thinking that folks would be encouraged to use the website above to check their travel date if they thought there was more chance of hitting a strike date..

 

 I looked a few moments ago and on the first page alone, SEVEN of the FIFTEEN strike dates listed there are listed as train strikes, and those only up to a date NEXT MONTH. I checked no further pages but 7 out of 15 strikes would indicate something more than "infrequent" would it not? Having no need to, I did not check which regions were to be affected.

And as cruisemom42 has said above, not every region will have train strikes on every date which is the reason for essential careful checking of not only the dates but the regions affected.

 

Readers should  also be aware that the train line between Civi and Rome can also be subject to strikes and it is worth checking the Trenitalia website info for trains which are guaranteed to run during both strikes and national holidays as agreed with unions.

 

One good thing is that they are listed well ahead of time although that raises the possibility that more dates could be added last minute, or some dates called off last minute.

 

In recent years, some of the cruiselines have chartered their own private trains for shorex to Rome from Civi.  Have wondered if these private entire train  charters were as a result of uncertainty over the running of regular trains which could be impacted, as prior to then, they would book for their shorex  a number of private coaches on regular trains.

 

 

 

We DIYers always need to have a backup plan in mind, just in case.  Absolutely!

 

 

Happy Days.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by edinburgher

[euro cruiser]

I think we're both trying to find the balance here of making sure our fellow cruisers are well informed, without scaring them.  Wildcat or last-minute strikes are almost unheard of in Italy and if you check the government strike web site a week or two before your trip you will have the information you need.

 

As to the language, years ago I had a management training course on how to do performance reviews.  Usually those workshops were boring and only marginally helpful but this one really stuck with me.  They did an exercise with a number of words you find in performance reviews (like often, frequently, always, never, etc.) and had each of us quantify (0% to 100%) what amount of time or frequency the word meant to us.  The range of interpretations was astounding, underscoring their point about not using them in a review because they are open to interpretation and therefore unclear.

Edited December 24, 2022 by euro cruiser

[marazul]

Italian law require strikes to be listed in the sciopero.it website.  Minimum notice is 15 days (normally, it is 2 or 3 months). It must specify the duration of the strike (such as 8 a.m. to midnight). It must make provision for minimum services in essential services sectors, such as transportation and health.

Strikes are seldom national. More often than not they are settled ahead of time.  The status of negotiatons and settlements must also posted in sciopero.it. 

 

All of the above are good reasons for reserving a cancellable hotel room in Florence for the overnight stay. If there is a strike the first day, you can get out the next day. If there is a strike the second day, you can cancel the room and return to the port.  In any event, it is extremely unlikely that a strike will disrupt your plans.

 

It is not "infrequent" that strikes are scheduled.  It is "infrequent" that they actually take place.

Edited December 24, 2022 by marazul

[edinburgher]

I think we're both trying to find the balance here of making sure our fellow cruisers are well informed, without scaring them

 

Had no intentionof scaring anyone, and didn't think anything I wrote above was particularly scary either, was only advising that checking train travel  should be part of the usual sightseeing research for any port call in Italy and I even gave directions on  how to do that.

 

It is not "infrequent" that strikes are scheduled.  It is "infrequent" that they actually take place.

 

Whether "infrequently" actually taking place or not, WE got caught out therefore others may be too, hence the warning  (which I thought was a friendly one.)

 

And without the benefit of a management  training course, I had also not known  that  some of the words I used  should not be used  " as they are open to interpretation and therefore unclear".

 

As i didn't expect to be" flamed"  I will certainly take that lesson onboard in any future posts, although I have learned from this thread that nothing should be volunteered if it is not asked for, regardless if it would have been of interest or helpful to others or not.

 

SEASONS GREETINGS TO ALL and please practise kindness to others in 2023.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by edinburgher

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, edinburgher said:

 

 

As i didn't expect to be" flamed"  I will certainly take that lesson onboard in any future posts, although I have learned from this thread that nothing should be volunteered if it is not asked for, regardless if it would have been of interest or helpful to others or not.

 

SEASONS GREETINGS TO ALL and please practise kindness to others in 2023.

 

 

 

I do not think it was anyone's intent to "flame".  To me, all the responses were quite polite. Simply disagreeing or clarifying is not "flaming". Apologies if you felt that was the case. 

 

Unfortunately there is a quite pervasive "urban myth" that the train system in Italy is unreliable. It comes to light frequently on this board and other boards on CC (and not only here)....  So perhaps those of us with a lot of travel experience in Italy are just anxious to correct that misperception.

 

All the best to you as well in this holiday season and in the future.

 

[marazul]

Edinburgher-

My apologies if you felt "flamed."  That was never my intention. In the past 30+ years we too have been caught in strikes twice. The first time was on a train strike between Milan and Venice. That was before the labor agreement that set the rules for striking rights.  The second time, it was on the Cinqueterre trains. They were posted, but we never checked.  Our fault, but not a problem because the ferries were running.  Yes, it is a lot worse if you are caught, but, like cruisemom says, it is an urban myth that there are spontaneous strikes all the time. 

Happy holidays to you. And please keep posting. Your contributions are thoughtful and appreciated. 

Edited December 25, 2022 by marazul

[euro cruiser]

Yes, I'm sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable or unwelcome, not the intent at all.  The story about the management training was only to explain why I'm so conscious about (and maybe overreactive to) vague words.

Edited December 25, 2022 by euro cruiser

[Hlitner]

We understand the reluctance of some to rent a car, but it is actually a terrific option in Italy (and most of Europe).  Keep in mind that on the continent they drive on the right, signage is usually pretty good, and GPS makes life so much easier.  In Italy one does need to do some reading about the parking rules and Zona Trafico Limito (ZTLs), but otherwise, things are not too much different than driving in the USA/Canada.   If one cannot (or does not want to) drive a manual transmission they should make sure to reserve a car with automatic (usually more costly).

 

We have often driven in Italy (far more than 10,000 miles) without mishap other than a few parking tickets.  The major car agencies (Hertz, Budget and Europcar) all have offices in Civitavecchia and it is usually possible to book one-way rentals.  If one is renting for 3 or more days we strongly recommend talking to Autoeurope or Kemwel which are sister companies located in the USA.  They are "consolidators" or discounters who deal with nearly all the major rental car agencies and can offer better prices (with zero deductibles').  In Italy, we have often picked-up a car at the airport (FCO) and dropped it at Civitavecchia (or the reverse).   I will also mention that if one picks up a car at FCO it is easy to use the ring road to escape the Rome area without having to drive into Rome.  We DO NOT recommend driving in Rome or Florence for most folks :).  When we stay in Florence, and have a car we always book the Hotel David which is outside the ZTL and has free parking.

 

Hank

[GreenFamily]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We understand the reluctance of some to rent a car, but it is actually a terrific option in Italy (and most of Europe).  Keep in mind that on the continent they drive on the right, signage is usually pretty good, and GPS makes life so much easier.  In Italy one does need to do some reading about the parking rules and Zona Trafico Limito (ZTLs), but otherwise, things are not too much different than driving in the USA/Canada.   If one cannot (or does not want to) drive a manual transmission they should make sure to reserve a car with automatic (usually more costly).

 

We have often driven in Italy (far more than 10,000 miles) without mishap other than a few parking tickets.  The major car agencies (Hertz, Budget and Europcar) all have offices in Civitavecchia and it is usually possible to book one-way rentals.  If one is renting for 3 or more days we strongly recommend talking to Autoeurope or Kemwel which are sister companies located in the USA.  They are "consolidators" or discounters who deal with nearly all the major rental car agencies and can offer better prices (with zero deductibles').  In Italy, we have often picked-up a car at the airport (FCO) and dropped it at Civitavecchia (or the reverse).   I will also mention that if one picks up a car at FCO it is easy to use the ring road to escape the Rome area without having to drive into Rome.  We DO NOT recommend driving in Rome or Florence for most folks :).  When we stay in Florence, and have a car we always book the Hotel David which is outside the ZTL and has free parking.

 

Hank

Hotel David is a great recommendation. Thank you! 

[edinburgher]

I do not think it was anyone's tent to "flame".  To me, all the responses were quite polite. Simply disagreeing or clarifying is not "flaming". Apologies if you felt that was the case. 

 

I did actually feel that was the case as I had only suggested that folks check the train strike info as part of their advance port research if they intended to use trains when in port as I thought (apparently wrongly) that train strikes were actually quite a common occurance in italy. It worked for us,.as would have been in trouble had we turned up at the station in Florence only to find no trains were running to get us back to Livorno and  with the only option at that point being an expensive taxi ride.

 

Unfortunately there is a quite pervasive "urban myth" that the train system in Italy is unreliable. It comes to light frequently on this board and other boards on CC (and not only here)....  So perhaps those of us with a lot of travel experience in Italy are just anxious to correct that misperception.

 

If strikes so infrequently go ahead, what reason do you think there could be for that "urban myth?"  Even if they are "infrequent "in some regions, with strikes being listed in various regions across Italy, one could find oneself unlucky and in the wrong place at the wrong time on land trips or on short 2 or 3 day pre or post cruise mini trips, the latter being popular with cruise pax.

 

All the best to you as well in this holiday season and in the future. 

 

Thank you.  I hope you are not being impacted by the appalling weather in N. America which we are seeing on our news channels.

Edited December 26, 2022 by edinburgher

[edinburgher]

Edinburgher-

My apologies if you felt "flamed."  That was never my intention. In the past 30+ years we too have been caught in strikes twice. The first time was on a train strike between Milan and Venice. That was before the labor agreement that set the rules for striking rights.  The second time, it was on the Cinqueterre trains. They were posted, but we never checked.  Our fault, but not a problem because the ferries were running.  Yes, it is a lot worse if you are caught, but, like cruisemom says, it is an urban myth that there are spontaneous strikes all the time. 

Happy holidays to you. And please keep posting. Your contributions are thoughtful and appreciated. 

 

Thank you Marazul.  I am sorry I somehow gave the impression that train strikes were "spontaneous" and "all the time", the reason I advised checking the website ahead of time so that alternative plans could be made ahead of, rather than  unexpectedly on, the day itself.

 

You were fortunate that the ferries were running at Cinqueterre, as without them, your day could have been a non-starter with you left standing there trying to conjure up a Plan B on the spot.  I was trying to help others avoid a similar scenario.

 

We cancelled overnight in Florence as on day #1 we were only arriving into Livorno around mid or late morning(could have been around (1100) and it would have been around mid- afternoon before we could arrive into Florence itself, reach our hotel and be checked in and ready to venture out.  And on day #2 we were sailing at around 5pm ish so we would have had to be back on board by around 4pm or thereabouts for peace of mind.  As the travel alternatives between Florence and Livorno would have taken quite a bit longer than the train, we would have wanted to leave Florence by 1pm latest, again for peace of mind, and as our available time in the city was being slowly nibbled away, we reluctantly decided to cancel and instead take a land trip at a different time and lengthen our stay by a few days, as we are not big fans of spending omly 1 or 2 night in a city, as if too short a visit, more is being left out than can be  included.. We never really go away for a city break weekend, as our usual minimum city stay would be 5 nights for a smaller one (such as Florence or Prague),  and 6 or 7 nights for larger cities such as Berlin,, Barcelona and Madrid.

Happy holidays to you. And please keep posting. Your contributions are thoughtful and appreciated. 

 

Thank you, but I think in future i will be aiming for more factual than thoughtful.

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by edinburgher

[marazul]

5 hours ago, edinburgher said:

 

 

If strikes so infrequently go ahead, what reason do you think there could be for that "urban myth?"  Even if they are "infrequent "in some regions, with strikes being listed in various regions across Italy, one could find oneself unlucky and in the wrong place at the wrong time on land trips or on short 2 or 3 day pre or post cruise mini trips, the latter being popular with cruise pax.

 

Edinburgher-

There is a very good reason for the urban myth.  Wildcat strikes in Italy used to be frequent, unpredictable and disruptive years ago.  Like the train strike between Milan and Venice we were caught in.  This all changed in the 1990s when the right to strike was codified and the labor unions and the government agreed to the new rules.  Of course, this is not well known elsewhere and the memories of painful strikes linger on.

[edinburgher]

Thanks for the explanation. Makes total sense now- but still worth checking.

[Hlitner]

In nearly 50 years of extensive independent travel (in Europe) we have only been surprised by two train strikes.  One was a half day unannounced strike on the line that runs between Siena and Florence.  The other time was on the line that spans the French riviera which prevented us from taking a train to Nice (from Cannes).  Neither was a big deal since we are flexible and usually have a Plan B, but it can be frustrating.  But twice in nearly 50 years is just not much of an issue.

 

Hank