Incidents on board and security

[terrierjohn]

5 minutes ago, zap99 said:

I don't categorise folk by their ' type '. What evidence is there that these 2 incidents were caused by folk purchasing and abusing drunks packages. ? None asfar as I can see. Is there an increase in ' this sort of behaviour '. Is 2 an increase? 

I think most posters do not really think that drink packages are to blame, but these incidents do seem to be more prevalent on cruises which have had massive late discounts to fill up the remaining capacity, do you disagree with this?

Edited January 17, 2023 by terrierjohn

[Megabear2]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

Post #134

You've lost me, I'm afraid. That's not my post, it's the view of another individual. 

[Yorkypete]

7 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I certainly never mentioned a certain type of person and would hope that reading my posts back that isn't how I'm perceived.

 

Having spoken originally from my own personal experience I opened the thread to see if my experience/observation was an unfortunate one off.  I'm as surprised as the next man how many others are coming forward with similar experiences in recent time, clearly not across the board but pretty much on all the "family" ships.  Those ships have a lot in common - mixed age groups, new clients, very low sale prices etc.

 

 

I seem to have stirred up a hornets nest along with Megabear about this behaviour. If it is your wife that suffers this then let us see how you react. I deliberately let her handle it so as not to cause trouble but these situations can often lead to trouble. One cause was allowing many people with drinks in their hands to watch the gaming tables as Brodies was full(this was at about 9pm). You could hardly get near the tables. There were not just the 'football fan' types but also 'hooray Henry ' types as well. It happened on a few nights, mainly on 'at sea' days. I think our cruising days are coming to an end for various reasons, certainly with P&O.

 

[Bazrat]

Interesting thing is this discussion started by one person posting an unverified report from some review site, now after reading some of the posts about the effects of drinks packages we must be going on the wrong cruise's because we have never seen any bad behaviour, but I only ever hang around the better class of bars on ship.

[zap99]

4 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think most posters do not really think that drink packages are to blame, but these incidents do seem to be more prevalent on cruises which have had massive late discounts to fill up the remaining capacity, do you disagree with this?

I don't agree, or disagree, but MB's experience was on a Christmas Britannia Caribbean cruise, I doubt was a cheap clearance offer, the other one was Iona in January. I don't know about cheap late discounts then. Looking back a couple of references to drunks on Cunard. Lots of Generalisations and few incidents. Over the years we seen drunks on all sorts of holidays. We tend to ignore them and walk away.

[zap99]

2 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Interesting thing is this discussion started by one person posting an unverified report from some review site, now after reading some of the posts about the effects of drinks packages we must be going on the wrong cruise's because we have never seen any bad behaviour, but I only ever hang around the better class of bars on ship.

Me neither. 

[Megabear2]

1 minute ago, Yorkypete said:

I seem to have stirred up a hornets nest along with Megabear about this behaviour. If it is your wife that suffers this then let us see how you react. I deliberately let her handle it so as not to cause trouble but these situations can often lead to trouble. One cause was allowing many people with drinks in their hands to watch the gaming tables as Brodies was full(this was at about 9pm). You could hardly get near the tables. There were not just the 'football fan' types but also 'hooray Henry ' types as well. It happened on a few nights, mainly on 'at sea' days. I think our cruising days are coming to an end for various reasons, certainly with P&O.

 

That's an interesting observation.  If the venue was full to overflowing what was happening there to cause this situation?  A special event, quiz, football or is the place just too small for the number wanting to use it?

 

My experience is Brodies on any ship tends to house those who don't want to wander from venue to venue as P&O closes certain places and makes them "dead" rather than keeping all areas with entertainment all the time.

[yorkshirephil]

18 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think most posters do not really think that drink packages are to blame, but these incidents do seem to be more prevalent on cruises which have had massive late discounts to fill up the remaining capacity, do you disagree with this?

I don't think it is the drinks packages to blame, when we first started cruising with Airtours (Sun cruises) we always had the drinks package as did lots of others as they were cheaper in comparison to today's prices. We drank more than we should and stayed up dancing and having fun (as we did with no drinks package) and I never witnessed any trouble, similar on Thompson's when Airtours collapsed, the only bother I ever saw was two women battling in the bar. One thing that stands out is that cruisers were generally older, several times people said to us "it's nice to see younger people cruising" We were in our 30's and 40's. Is that part of the problem? My opinion is that the cruise lines should do more to deal with these situations, they created them to a degree. If bouncers are required to monitor suspected hot spots then that may be how it has to be. It is clearly putting some of the people off here and we are but a drop in the ocean.

[Waju]

We must be really lucky as on all the cruises we've done we've only seen drunken behaviour once, surprisingly that was on an Aurora world cruise.  The two men involved were 'happy' drunks and only in danger of injuring themselves dancing around on the pool deck.  Luckily, the ladies they were with took control and removed them to sleep it off.

 

Those of you amongst us who think alcohol isn't a problem wherever you go, cruises, holidays, local pub or town centre you are kidding yourselves.  I live in a 'nice' area and go to 'nice' places but there is a generation around at the moment  who don't care about anyone but themselves and have complete disregard for anyone else who may be affected by their actions.  Obviously they are in a minority but they are there and I can't believe everyone hasn't been affected by them in one way or another.

 

My last short break cruise (not P&O) was a disaster, not drunks but the lack of being able to get a drink.  I said on this site at the time that some of the people cruising now are not people I want to be sharing a cruise with.

 

Go on, shoot me down in flames but I'm entitled to my views - as are you all.

[Megabear2]

16 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Interesting thing is this discussion started by one person posting an unverified report from some review site, now after reading some of the posts about the effects of drinks packages we must be going on the wrong cruise's because we have never seen any bad behaviour, but I only ever hang around the better class of bars on ship.

Excuse me but the "one person" was assaulted on her cruise!  That's not an unverified report, that's me and it's a recorded and reported incident. I note you refer regularly to your good lady wife in your postings, how would you react to an incident involving her? Put it down as part of the normal cruise experience or be angry?

 

I did indeed ask about the reviews on Feefo purely because they referred to similar incidents. However if you read my postings on the subject properly you will see I asked if anyone knew whether they were actually true and if anyone had been onboard in particular Ventura where the most serious accusations were being referred to.

 

One poster who'd been on that cruise did come forward to try to explain and as a result I did not refer to it again, although I was confused about only one man out of the two being innocent of the "grooming" claim.  In fact the explanations on all points seemed to refer to the parties involved posting their defence elsewhere rather than clarity, but not my cruise so nothing for me to comment on.

 

I suggest turning it personal, be it to an individual such as myself or to a group is not the way to discuss any topic.

[Waju]

1 minute ago, yorkshirephil said:

If bouncers are required to monitor suspected hot spots then that may be how it has to be. It is clearly putting some of the people off here and we are but a drop in the ocean.

I hate to admit it but that may be an idea - have some visible security in the more popular bars where bad behaviour is more likely to occur.

 

What a sad world this is becoming - security on a cruise ship 😒

[Sonyar]

We were on Britannia February/March. At a deck party one night there was a large, loud group who'd obviously been drinking. Three or four staff came and stood near them, their behaviour didn't worsen  and we felt reassured.

It's quite worrying to hear that a more casual attitude is being taken to these matters.

We're on Arvia this weekend, hopefully it will be the usual happy atmosphere we're used to onboard.

[Megabear2]

32 minutes ago, zap99 said:

I don't agree, or disagree, but MB's experience was on a Christmas Britannia Caribbean cruise, I doubt was a cheap clearance offer, the other one was Iona in January. I don't know about cheap late discounts then. Looking back a couple of references to drunks on Cunard. Lots of Generalisations and few incidents. Over the years we seen drunks on all sorts of holidays. We tend to ignore them and walk away.

My cruise was, as people here know not a cheap one - I've moaned about the cost plenty on other parts of CC!  However I met people who'd paid less than a thousand pounds as late bookers - and no I don't blame them for doing so or envy them.  This was a Christmas Caribbean holiday and anyone staying in a reasonable land based hotel could expect to have paid a minimum £3,500 each at that time of the year.  I've looked at Christmas 2023 land based holidays in Barbados out of interest.  Average cost for a 3.5* all inclusive is currently around £3,750pp.  Remember that those land based prices will increase in much the same way a cruise does, the difference is most won't wait until the last minute offerings because they know demand will outstrip supply and "last mi ute bargains" will be literally the leftovers.

 

Faced with a miserable expensive Christmas at home who can blame anyone regardless of their socio economic group for taking the cheap cruise?

 

We are too judgmental be it to the people we don't like the look of or the people we perceive as snobs.  If people behave in the correct manner and don't spoil others enjoyment we should not judge.

 

Regarding alcohol. I have a friend who is a recovering alcoholic. He tells me his AA meetings are filled with people from high end employment and the gentry (we have a lot around here before anyone shouts at me).  He was surprised by this as a working class person but having gotten to know them he tells me they slip into it by way of knowing no better because it's the way their business was done or the what they grew up with. As he says a person drinking to excess is simply that, no matter who they are.  

[Eglesbrech]

1 hour ago, kalos said:

 

Do we know anyone who has ever drank to excess on Blue Nun ?

That really would be  ' A certain type of person"🤔

One with no taste buds.

[Megabear2]

19 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Two incidents.  No wonder it's led to such an outcry.  Something must be done.

Having fun?  I think it's a bit more than two incidents, yes two more serious ones but plenty of comments about overall behaviour and still no full explanation of why they weren't dealt with by security.

 

Your track record on joining a lot of these threads is to say that people won't get things changed - time and again.  Strangely a lot of them have changed and things you said can't happen have.

 

My next sailing on Iona in March will be the new benchmark for me, hopefully without incident.

[paulatsea]

People have had bad experiences and have  genuine concerns about problems with drunk and or abusive behaviour.

It doesn’t matter even if it just happened once - it is distressing for those concerned and would spoil the holiday.

I sympathise and hope something is done about this as it’s becoming more frequent.

 

To laugh it off is an insult to those affected.

 

[Waju]

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Two incidents.  No wonder it's led to such an outcry.  Something must be done.

May be if you, or those you are travelling with, are affected on your next cruise by anti social idiots you won't find it so amusing.

 

People pay a lot of money for their holidays and should be able to enjoy them in a safe and happy atmosphere.

 

Someone suggested earlier that it be made clear before embarkation that anyone displaying serious unacceptable behaviour will be removed at the next port of call - along with everyone on their booking.

Great idea.

[zap99]

14 minutes ago, Waju said:

May be if you, or those you are travelling with, are affected on your next cruise by anti social idiots you won't find it so amusing.

 

People pay a lot of money for their holidays and should be able to enjoy them in a safe and happy atmosphere.

 

Someone suggested earlier that it be made clear before embarkation that anyone displaying serious unacceptable behaviour will be removed at the next port of call - along with everyone on their booking.

Great idea.

I'm sure nobody finds drunken behavior amusing, but branding folk ' those types of people ', or assuming  they are on reduced price cruises with drinks packages, based on a couple of reported incidents is going going a bit.

[cruising.mark.uk]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

I'm sure nobody finds drunken behavior amusing, but branding folk ' those types of people ', or assuming  they are on reduced price cruises with drinks packages, based on a couple of reported incidents is going going a bit.

Thank you.  My point exactly.

[happy v]

I read yorkpetes post last night and thought nothing of it but thought I would let others reply. However looking now it seems some are offended by this. So my two penn'oth....

I think this was misconception and the men were from the N.E. For 'love' you could insert madam. Means exactly the same thing. He would be offering her a seat as he would feel uncomfortable sitting if a lady was standing. Rather than a sexual connotation. Also up here everyone talks to each other, in a queue, on a bus etc. It isn't odd. If I showed this post to people the general conception would be 'she had a stick up her back____!'

So sorry for the essay but I am trying to stop this descending into anarchy 

 

[Megabear2]

33 minutes ago, zap99 said:

I'm sure nobody finds drunken behavior amusing, but branding folk ' those types of people ', or assuming  they are on reduced price cruises with drinks packages, based on a couple of reported incidents is going going a bit.

I've no problem with that. I've never mentioned drinks packages or those kind of people but I'm the one that's getting all the flack!  I do believe that price slashing is a factor in the problem and will take some convincing otherwise - open to being proved wrong of course.

 

Princess was mentioned by some earlier regarding drinks packages. I've yet to see a fire sale over there or on RC or Celebrity.  NCL have a stated policy since restart that they will not go down the cutting prices route.  There is a connection.

 

There's also a connection much as I hate to say it, to football.  Not heard back what was on in Brodies re the Iona incident but looking at the time 9.00pm ties in with UK football matches evening kick offs . On all my winter cruises P&O have taken to using football matches as a cheap form of entertainment on-board the bigger ships. Brodies tends to be set up as a sports bar with numerous tv screens to show sport on.  Lots of drinking all day combined with many different people who generally support different teams and taking into account the latest post, come from different parts of the UK, is not a good mixture.  

 

The other problem that I have encountered is that the bad behaviour comes from large groups (often families with multi generation members) not individuals. They of course feed of each other and the nuisance grows accordingly.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Megabear2

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

That's an interesting observation.  If the venue was full to overflowing what was happening there to cause this situation?  A special event, quiz, football or is the place just too small for the number wanting to use it?

 

My experience is Brodies on any ship tends to house those who don't want to wander from venue to venue as P&O closes certain places and makes them "dead" rather than keeping all areas with entertainment all the time.

Iona has a design flaw, in that Brodies has no direct access aftwards on the ship. Both Brodies and the Casino can be accessed forward, towards the theatre, but only the casino has access aftward.

This results in the casino, which compared to the other large ships, is quite a small area, becoming very crowded, especially as the theatre empties or a show is due to start, and crowded areas can lead to confrontations, especially where drink is involved.

[TinyDavid]

3 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Possibly, but do you have a believable alternative explanation for the increase in this sort of behaviour, that we could maybe discuss, and perhaps ridicule?

Could it be the "Calman effect" brought on through excessive miming to cheesy dance routines and loud guffawing at mildy amusing incidents driving passengers to seek solace in alcohol. 

[Megabear2]

14 minutes ago, TinyDavid said:

Could it be the "Calman effect" brought on through excessive miming to cheesy dance routines and loud guffawing at mildy amusing incidents driving passengers to seek solace in alcohol. 

Judging by some of the entertainment on a couple of my recent P&O cruises Ms Caiman would be most welcome as a diversion cheesy or not.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Megabear2

[cruising.mark.uk]

6 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I do believe that price slashing is a factor in the problem and will take some convincing otherwise - open to being proved wrong of course.

 

 

Experience of MSC suggests to me that price is not a factor.  Currently on Virtuosa out of Southampton.  MSC probably has the cheapest cruises available out of Southampton year round.  And they probably have the cheapest drinks packages, which are included in the base price much of the time.  So, if price, drinks packages and being British were causal factors, MSC would be at the centre of the storm.

 

According to the crew, approx 50% of pax on this cruise are Brits, with most of the rest Germans, with smaller numbers of French and Dutch.  Other than some very bad Karaoke, we have seen no evidence of alcohol-fuelled misbehaviour on this or our previous 7 cruises with MSC.  Or, in fact, on any of our previous 50+ cruises across 8 lines.

 

Other than for some specific types of cruises - 2 or 3 nighters, Spring Break etc - I've never seen anything to suggest that drunken misbehaviour (criminal or otherwise) is more prevalent on cruise ships than elsewhere (the stats for incidents that have led to criminal action must be available somewhere; I'd hazard a guess that they will be lower proportionately for cruises than they are for flights and definitely lower than in most UK town centres).  Extrapolating from a couple of incidents to try to explain why it might happen occasionally in closed environments involving thousands of people doesn't strike me as a particularly worthwhile exercise.  At the risk of stating the obvious, I think the likely conclusion that will be reached is that cruise ships are a microcosm of the societies from which they draw their passengers and behaviour  on cruise ships will reflect that of those societies.