Prima MDR Menu update :(

[PATRLR]

14 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Yup. Likely items that were sporadically ordered and items that mostly ended up in the trash every night. Like I said, I have had conversations with executive chefs on many ships and they all will tell you that is the #1 reason an item leaves the menu is that very few people order them. 

 

The other reason is cited on another thread, supply chain challenges where they can not get the products... and I can see that could be any of the cited items.  

So you simply refuse to acknowledge that cost can be a factor in decisions to remove items from a menu?  People not ordering it, supply chain - those reasons you accept and promote, but cost you don't accept as a reason?

With the popularity of Mac and Cheese sweeping across the US (we now have restaurants whose primary offering is various forms of Mac and Cheese) I find it hard to believe no one was ordering it as a side.  I suspect the real reason is that to create a good Mac and Cheese (not the Kraft box kind) requires good quality cheese and that's expensive.  It's also time consuming to make good Mac and Cheese which adds to the expense.   Fortunately in this case they didn't choose to go the low quality route.

[PATRLR]

14 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Like I said, I have had conversations with executive chefs on many ships and they all will tell you that is the #1 reason an item leaves the menu is that very few people order them. 

I'm curious Bird, do you think these executive chefs that you speak with would tell you if they removed something due to cost?  

Bird:  "Why did you remove the Beef Wellington"
ExecChef: "Filet Mignon has gotten to be too expensive so we had to take it off the menu"

Do you really think they would ever tell you that?  I doubt it.

[BirdTravels]

3 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

With the popularity of Mac and Cheese sweeping across the US (we now have restaurants whose primary offering is various forms of Mac and Cheese) I find it hard to believe no one was ordering it as a side.  I suspect the real reason is that to create a good Mac and Cheese (not the Kraft box kind) requires good quality cheese and that's expensive.  It's also time consuming to make good Mac and Cheese which adds to the expense.   Fortunately in this case they didn't choose to go the low quality route.

Looking at the menu, I 100% agree that Mac & Cheese is the highest cost item on the menu and because it is the highest demand, highest cost item on the menu, they 86 it. But provide all you can eat pasta at the buffet. I can honestly say that I did not see anyone ordering Mac & Cheese on our two cruises on the Prima (and especially with the new menu, we watched what people were ordering). 

 

My kids used to like mac & cheese, but they lost interest when they grew up. 

[BirdTravels]

7 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

I'm curious Bird, do you think these executive chefs that you speak with would tell you if they removed something due to cost?  

Bird:  "Why did you remove the Beef Wellington"
ExecChef: "Filet Mignon has gotten to be too expensive so we had to take it off the menu"

Do you really think they would ever tell you that?  I doubt it.

Sure. Example: "We were throwing out 10's of thousands of pounds of chocolate each week across the fleet because interest in the midnight chocolate buffet steeply declined, so we discontinued it to save money". 

 

Do you remember a similar thread to this when they removed chicken fingers off the lunch menu and replaced it with rotisserie chicken? 

 

Or a similar thread to this when they removed fish fingers and replaced it with poached salmon?

 

Or a similar thread to this when they removed canned chicken noodle soup and replaced it with Pho?

 

Gosh,,, the person above is trying to make a case that mac&cheese is a high cost item to produce and therefore was 86ed. Please...  It was 86ed because there is "good food" on the menu and no one was ordering it and pots of noodles were feeding the fish each night. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by BirdTravels

[rxlowry]

45 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Looking at the menu, I 100% agree that Mac & Cheese is the highest cost item on the menu and because it is the highest demand, highest cost item on the menu, they 86 it. But provide all you can eat pasta at the buffet. I can honestly say that I did not see anyone ordering Mac & Cheese on our two cruises on the Prima (and especially with the new menu, we watched what people were ordering). 

 

My kids used to like mac & cheese, but they lost interest when they grew up. 

I don’t think your sample size is too statistically significant.   How many tables can you really see?  Did you eat every dinner in main dining on all two Prima cruises?   Conduct an exit poll?
I think you might be the only one who believes it was due to popularity that these items were cut.   
I believe you also have said NCL wants to cater to American palate yet removes the Mac n cheese.   Doesn’t really add up. 

It’s hard to watch something we’ve loved go downhill.  Sometimes denial is away to cope but truly what will be the cost cut for you that is too much to explain away?

[PATRLR]

48 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

discontinued it to save money". 

Well, at least you included money on this one, though it were presented as an effect and not a cause.

[cruiseny4life]

53 minutes ago, vacation44 said:

I believe the cost of the meal was the reason and not that no one was ordering it.    I am not sure who the contemporary cruiser demographic are, but I know that three out of four in my family would of ordered the beef wellington and

 

with the mac and cheese.  

Back to that palate! Mmmm mac and cheese. Sorry, I would write an ode of joy to mac and cheese if I were a writer. I'd take me some of that beef welly too! I mentioned these deletions from the menu to my husband last night and he was really disappointed as the beef welly was one of the reasons we were excited about this menu launching fleetwide in 2023. Now, I really, really hope it doesn't. No mac and cheese, no beef welly, no chicken cordon bleu (not that it was ever there). *I think I'm going to shed a tear*

  

42 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

With the popularity of Mac and Cheese sweeping across the US (we now have restaurants whose primary offering is various forms of Mac and Cheese) I find it hard to believe no one was ordering it as a side.  I suspect the real reason is that to create a good Mac and Cheese (not the Kraft box kind) requires good quality cheese and that's expensive.  It's also time consuming to make good Mac and Cheese which adds to the expense.   Fortunately in this case they didn't choose to go the low quality route.

They kind of did. I'm sure mac and cheese is available in the buffet. I'd hope so anyway! If it's like Getaway's mac and cheese, I'm sure it will be low brow and disappointing. 

 

36 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

My kids used to like mac & cheese, but they lost interest when they grew up. 

Plenty of us Millennials love mac and cheese. If it's good. Gen Z does too, just a little bit differently (https://www.genzinsights.com/top-3-genz-food-trends-right-now). As @PATRLR said, there are mac and cheese restaurants all over. Look at many restaurants and they've added it as a side: not Kraft, but homemade yummy mac and cheese. I'll admit, one of my great sins when I was single was the amount of Stouffer's mac and cheese I cooked in the microwave after a day of working in the field. I'm so glad I'm married and civilized now haha

 

Here's a brief history on mac and cheese: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/brief-history-americas-appetite-for-macaroni-cheese-180969185/

 

And a word on mac and cheese franchises spreading internationally: https://www.yahoo.com/now/heart-mac-cheese-signs-agreement-173000735.html

 

Can you tell I enjoy noodles and a fine bechamel?

 

---------------

This will be a bit more controversial. If cruise lines are adapting to the "contemporary cruiser," then they need to eliminate main dining rooms altogether. Those of us in our 20's - 40's don't want to sit around for an hour or two to eat a meal off a menu. We don't want two servers. We sure as hell don't want to sit with people we don't know (actually that might be a me thing). I think you'll find more and more concepts like Indulge Food Hall and Virgin's Galley to entice those of us that are nearing middle age. Alas, that's not exactly Pr1ma MDR Menu I suppose.

[BirdTravels]

8 minutes ago, rxlowry said:

I don’t think your sample size is too statistically significant.   How many tables can you really see?  Did you eat every dinner in main dining on all two Prima cruises?   Conduct an exit poll?
I think you might be the only one who believes it was due to popularity that these items were cut.   
I believe you also have said NCL wants to cater to American palate yet removes the Mac n cheese.   Doesn’t really add up. 

It’s hard to watch something we’ve loved go downhill.  Sometimes denial is away to cope but truly what will be the cost cut for you that is too much to explain away?

Go down hill??? 86ing mac & cheese that no one wanted in the first place. Please.

[rxlowry]

3 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Go down hill??? 86ing mac & cheese that no one wanted in the first place. Please.

It’s everything NCL is doing.  Big picture.     Not just the Mac n cheese “no one wants”.  

[BirdTravels]

5 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

This will be a bit more controversial. If cruise lines are adapting to the "contemporary cruiser," then they need to eliminate main dining rooms altogether. Those of us in our 20's - 40's don't want to sit around for an hour or two to eat a meal off a menu. We don't want two servers. We sure as hell don't want to sit with people we don't know (actually that might be a me thing). I think you'll find more and more concepts like Indulge Food Hall and Virgin's Galley to entice those of us that are nearing middle age. Alas, that's not exactly Pr1ma MDR Menu I suppose.

Gosh... NCL has not had "traditional" group dining (eating with strangers) in decades. NCL will give you a 2-top (or a table for the size of your group) and you never eat with strangers. So,,,, I am not sure when the last time you cruised on NCL was. 

 

Unfortunately, you need to feed 4500 passengers and large dining rooms is one way to turn 2000-3000 cover a night (leaving the reset to dine in specialty dining, buffet, Indulge). When we dine in a MDR, we are normally out in less than an hour (not two). And have been out faster if we had a show to catch. And, unfortunately, the food hall concept does not scale to serve 4500 passengers.

[BirdTravels]

3 minutes ago, rxlowry said:

It’s everything NCL is doing.  Big picture.     Not just the Mac n cheese “no one wants”.  

Big Picture, with the Prima, NCL tried to provide a much, much larger MDR menu with more choices to meet more tastes. Yup, chicken noodle soup is back,,, but so is sushi and cobia crudo. NCL greatly expanded to outdoor sundeck space on the Prima with innovative seating so guests were not piled on eachother on the pool deck. With the Prima, NCL went smaller with the ship (3100 passengers vs. 4200) to reduce contention for resources and increase the crew-to-passenger ratio. With the Prima, they gave passengers more spacious rooms. With the Prima, they introduced dining options like the Indulge Food Hall (which has a much higher cost and staffing requirement that the MDR and buffet). The Prima also has the main theater with retractable seating to convert the space into a very large dance floor for indoor dancing with state of the art lighting and laser effect. 

 

I am old. I have been cruising since the days of hard wooden deck chairs that you had to pay/rent and have a pool attendant set up for you. Big Picture,,, I recognize and applaud that NCL continues to innovate and lead the cruise industry. Some things work. Some things don't. And NCL rapidly adapts. Adaptation is what keeps a company viable... and not stick with something that isn't working and go down with the ship.  

[cruiseny4life]

14 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Gosh... NCL has not had "traditional" group dining (eating with strangers) in decades. NCL will give you a 2-top (or a table for the size of your group) and you never eat with strangers. So,,,, I am not sure when the last time you cruised on NCL was. 

 

Unfortunately, you need to feed 4500 passengers and large dining rooms is one way to turn 2000-3000 cover a night (leaving the reset to dine in specialty dining, buffet, Indulge). When we dine in a MDR, we are normally out in less than an hour (not two). And have been out faster if we had a show to catch. And, unfortunately, the food hall concept does not scale to serve 4500 passengers.

I disembarked from Getaway exactly 16 days ago. Third cruise since April, 2022. I embark on Joy in exactly 52 days. Yeeeeeha!!! Not quite time to start my live....yet. 🙂

 

I've eaten in the main dining room two or three times total in those three sailings. Each time I had to wait to place my order. Wait for the bread (which is bad and unnecessary). Side note: why is NCL's bread so bad, except the pretzel rolls? Wait for the appetizer. Wait for the soup. Wait for the main. Wait for the dessert. Ugh...so much waiting. Not enough doing. Thankfully I had an ocean view each time I dined. Don't even get me started on the wait time in the Haven Restaurant (which I absolutely adore, but not the wait).

 

I've always had a 2-top when dining onboard. Well, sometimes a 4-top, but only for the good ole husband and myself. I've read on here in the last few days that NCL is beginning to ask if folks would like to dine with others. No thank you! Alas, that's not the point. 

 

The "contemporary cruiser" does not want a main dining room. They want something like Indulge that you enjoyed immensely on your Pr1ma sailing. I would enjoy Indulge too. 

 

Please be sure to note, I did not say scrap specialty dining. That's important too. Look at Virgin Voyages. Their food concept is spot-on. It's better than what NCL has, especially since all food is included. No buffet. No main dining room. Perfect for the contemporary cruiser demographic. I know plenty of older folks that would love it too. I'd cruise Virgin in a heartbeat, if they had a Haven-type area. They don't.

 

Apologies @laudergayle! I'm so far off topic with this one. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by cruiseny4life

[rxlowry]

2 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

 

 

Please be sure to note, I did not say scrap specialty dining. That's important too. Look at Virgin Voyages. Their food concept is spot-on. It's better than what NCL has, especially since all food is included. No buffet. No main dining room. Perfect for the contemporary cruiser demographic. I know plenty of older folks that would love it too. I'd cruise Virgin in a heartbeat, if they had a Haven-type area. They don't.

There is Richards’s Rooftop for the suites right?  Or did they open it to all?

[BirdTravels]

1 minute ago, cruiseny4life said:

I've always had a 2-top when dining onboard. Well, sometimes a 4-top, but only for the good ole husband and myself. I've read on here in the last few days that NCL is beginning to ask if folks would like to dine with others. No thank you! Alas, that's not the point. 

NCL has always asked if you want group dining because there are still some old timers that keep asking for that. Fewer and fewer ask for that now. 

 

We cruise 2-3 times a year on Royal and 2-3 times a year on NCL each year. On Royal, there are those that would die if they didn't get group dining. Like you, that's not for me,,, ever. Eeewww. 

[cruiseny4life]

4 minutes ago, rxlowry said:

There is Richards’s Rooftop for the suites right?  Or did they open it to all?

Just suites! But, no restaurant. Haha, as I whine about restaurants. 🙂 

3 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

NCL has always asked if you want group dining because there are still some old timers that keep asking for that. Fewer and fewer ask for that now. 

 

We cruise 2-3 times a year on Royal and 2-3 times a year on NCL each year. On Royal, there are those that would die if they didn't get group dining. Like you, that's not for me,,, ever. Eeewww. 

Now that I'll agree with you on!!!! 😁

 

I was very entertained a couple months ago on the Cunard boards when they started my time dining. Oh my! 

[laudergayle]

8 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Big Picture,,, I recognize and applaud that NCL continues to innovate and lead the cruise industry. Some things work. Some things don't. And NCL rapidly adapts. Adaptation is what keeps a company viable... and not stick with something that isn't working and go down with the ship.  

I sure hope you’re correct.  I don’t know if you’ve read reviews for Prima but the current CC rating for Prima is 2.9 Poor.  Seems like the only consistent positive is Indulge.  I really do want NCL and Prima to be successful.  

[BirdTravels]

2 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

I was very entertained a couple months ago on the Cunard boards when they started my time dining. Oh my! 

Full disclosure: we are platinum cruisers on Cunard also. Fortunately, we always seem to be able to get a 2-top in the MDR and a 2-top in the Grill class restaurants (suites). In the Grill class restaurants, the Maitre D used to come to cook for you tableside for flamed entrees and desserts (yeah... open flames on a cruise ship). On NCL, I can't get a maitre d to fill my water glass. 

[rxlowry]

43 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Big Picture, with the Prima, NCL tried to provide a much, much larger MDR menu with more choices to meet more tastes. Yup, chicken noodle soup is back,,, but so is sushi and cobia crudo. NCL greatly expanded to outdoor sundeck space on the Prima with innovative seating so guests were not piled on eachother on the pool deck. With the Prima, NCL went smaller with the ship (3100 passengers vs. 4200) to reduce contention for resources and increase the crew-to-passenger ratio. With the Prima, they gave passengers more spacious rooms. With the Prima, they introduced dining options like the Indulge Food Hall (which has a much higher cost and staffing requirement that the MDR and buffet). The Prima also has the main theater with retractable seating to convert the space into a very large dance floor for indoor dancing with state of the art lighting and laser effect. 

 

I am old. I have been cruising since the days of hard wooden deck chairs that you had to pay/rent and have a pool attendant set up for you. Big Picture,,, I recognize and applaud that NCL continues to innovate and lead the cruise industry. Some things work. Some things don't. And NCL rapidly adapts. Adaptation is what keeps a company viable... and not stick with something that isn't working and go down with the ship.  

Yet reviews of Prima are not good.  I’ve been cruising since the 80s but and I’ve seen the changes.  Some good, some not.  It’s the big picture of the cutbacks.  So many happening since my last NCL cruise which was only November.  I’ve always been able to roll with the cuts NCL has made as they’ve been spread out but this might be too much.  I’ll see in about two weeks.  

[reeinaz]

The mac and cheese was DELICIOUS. I didn't order it until day 5 of my 7 day cruise and ordered it every day after that. I suspect if it wasn't being ordered, it's because people didn't expect much of it. But man oh man. Yeah. That was good stuff.

Now I was not impressed at all by the beef wellington. It was my first time having it and was so looking forward to it because everyone seemed to be so excited that it was on the menu. Maybe my expectations were too high? But I am not sad to see that one go.

[laudergayle]

5 minutes ago, rxlowry said:

Yet reviews of Prima are not good.  I’ve been cruising since the 80s but and I’ve seen the changes.  Some good, some not.  It’s the big picture of the cutbacks.  So many happening since my last NCL cruise which was only November.  I’ve always been able to roll with the cuts NCL has made as they’ve been spread out but this might be too much.  I’ll see in about two weeks.  

We are on the same page.  Too much too quickly.  And for us all of the cutbacks and price increases came after final payment for our Feb and April cruises.  So the impact of the changes are greater for cruisers in mid-Jan through April.  Fortunately final payment for our Nov cruise is due in July, so we can cancel if we want.

 

 NOTE TO SELF:  If booking cruises in Q1 be prepared for change with no recourse. I suspect NCL 2023 budgets were set by 10/22 and all the “ways to save” were identified shortly thereafter with a January effective date.  And since each department was acting individually,  somebody (FDR 1 &2) likely missed the impact the collective cuts/increases on the guest experience.

[cruiseny4life]

7 minutes ago, laudergayle said:

We are on the same page.  Too much too quickly.  And for us all of the cutbacks and price increases came after final payment for our Feb and April cruises.  So the impact of the changes are greater for cruisers in mid-Jan through April.  Fortunately final payment for our Nov cruise is due in July, so we can cancel if we want.

 

 NOTE TO SELF:  If booking cruises in Q1 be prepared for change with no recourse. I suspect NCL 2023 budgets were set by 10/22 and all the “ways to save” were identified shortly thereafter with a January effective date.  And since each department was acting individually,  somebody (FDR 1 &2) likely missed the impact the collective cuts/increases on the guest experience.

I think Frankie boy II is in charge of Oceania. Harry (I don't have a good nickname yet) Sommers is still in charge of NCL. Until Frankie boy II gets bored with Oceania, I'm sure. Or, does the OG Frankie boy have another child? Then they'll be slotted into NCL. 

[laudergayle]

3 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Frankie boy II is in charge of Oceania

Yeah that’s accurate…I was having a senior moment😂

[Cruising Lynne]

22 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Gosh,,, they added Fish and Chips. Removed a Wellington. Added 3 Cagney's steaks for entrees. I think you are a +3 on the entrée count. 

But the added Cagney's steak options have an upcharge. I can see that the Wellington would be more labor intensive to prepare, but they could have replaced it with a non-upcharge item.

 

It looks like they may have added a dessert option?

 

I don't understand the fuss about mac and cheese though.

[weltek]

4 minutes ago, Cruising Lynne said:

 

I don't understand the fuss about mac and cheese though.

Being from Wisconsin, I totally understand how a post could spiral into a multi-page mac & cheese debate. 

[PATRLR]

4 minutes ago, Cruising Lynne said:

I don't understand the fuss about mac and cheese though.

I guess I started the "fuss".  I don't really care if Mac and Cheese is or isn't on the menu.  I was commenting on Bird's position that the Mac and Cheese was cut because no one was ordering it.   I find that hard to believe.  The cut also contradicts Bird's earlier position that NCL was " catering to the desires of the contemporary cruiser".   As others have pointed out, Mac and Cheese is very popular, at the moment, in the US.

So my comments were a response to Bird, not so much about Mac and Cheese.