CCL making progress

[Guest ldtr]

Just looked at the CCL 10K for the fiscal year ending Nov 30, 2022.  For the first time since the shutdown the numbers indicated that ship operations was cash flow positive in the 4th quarter (ending Nov 30).  Even though it was still negative for the entire year Q4 actually was positive.

 

What I am looking at is Revenues (ticket and onboard) 3,839 million - operating expenses not including administration and depreciation) 3,665 million = +174 million

 

While the quarter was still in the red from a profit/loss point of view (-1,598 million) it is the first time that ship operations actually turned cash flow positive since the restart.  A very good sign for the future of the industry.  Though still a lot of difficult  times ahead .  

Edited January 30, 2023 by ldtr

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, ldtr said:

Just looked at the CCL 10K for the fiscal year ending Nov 30, 2022.  For the first time since the shutdown the numbers indicated that ship operations was cash flow positive in the 4th quarter (ending Nov 30).  Even though it was still negative for the entire year Q4 actually was positive.

 

What I am looking at is Revenues (ticket and onboard) 3,839 million - operating expenses not including administration and depreciation) 3,665 million = +174 million

 

While the quarter was still in the red from a profit/loss point of view (-1,598 million) it is the first time that ship operations actually turned cash flow positive since the restart.  A very good sign for the future of the industry.  Though still a lot of difficult  times ahead .  

Good news for stockholders, though the debt and debt service is still staggeringly large,

[malba2366]

18 hours ago, ldtr said:

Just looked at the CCL 10K for the fiscal year ending Nov 30, 2022.  For the first time since the shutdown the numbers indicated that ship operations was cash flow positive in the 4th quarter (ending Nov 30).  Even though it was still negative for the entire year Q4 actually was positive.

 

What I am looking at is Revenues (ticket and onboard) 3,839 million - operating expenses not including administration and depreciation) 3,665 million = +174 million

 

While the quarter was still in the red from a profit/loss point of view (-1,598 million) it is the first time that ship operations actually turned cash flow positive since the restart.  A very good sign for the future of the industry.  Though still a lot of difficult  times ahead .  

 

All the 3 major cruise operators are massively in debt, RCL is probably better off than CCL and NCLH.  The one saving grace that these cruise lines have is that their creditors will keep loaning them money as long as the prospects are reasonable because the ships are only worth scrap value on the open market should they decide to stop loaning money and force the companies into insolvency.

[DCThunder]

What's the latest on the long-time rumor of CCL selling Seabourn to the Saudis?

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, malba2366 said:

 

All the 3 major cruise operators are massively in debt, RCL is probably better off than CCL and NCLH.  The one saving grace that these cruise lines have is that their creditors will keep loaning them money as long as the prospects are reasonable because the ships are only worth scrap value on the open market should they decide to stop loaning money and force the companies into insolvency.

RCL actually has a higher debt to revenue ratio than CCL (according to their last filing compared to CCL at the same period).  CCL is the first to show a positive for ship operations, though RCL might as well with their next filing.  NCLH is a bit more concerning from the number of layoffs they have had recently and the senior management shakeups. Their next filing should be interesting.

 

The most important things about ships operations being positive is that is pretty much assures that a worst case scenario would be a restructuring BK.  With ships showing positive cash flow that would make it likely that the debt holders would support an airline type restructuring as a worst case swapping debt for equity, and leaving the customer whole.  Doubt it would even come to that but it pretty much takes a liquidation type BK off of the board entirely.

[DCThunder]

Have people seen this article from Seatrade Cruise News?  It's from a thread over on the HAL board.

 

Jan Swartz on Holland America Group's restructuring | seatrade-cruise.com

 

A lot of the article is corporate speak and is being somewhat discounted as such by HAL cruisers, but some may find it interesting.

[malba2366]

15 minutes ago, DCThunder said:

Have people seen this article from Seatrade Cruise News?  It's from a thread over on the HAL board.

 

Jan Swartz on Holland America Group's restructuring | seatrade-cruise.com

 

A lot of the article is corporate speak and is being somewhat discounted as such by HAL cruisers, but some may find it interesting.

 

CCL needs to get serious about positioning their brands better, Princess and Holland America compete in the same segment and they have nothing to compete directly with Royal/Norwegian .

[loge23]

Disappointing article - sounds like any other corporate boilerplate statement.

I've been of the opinion since before the COVID disruption that Princess (haven't sailed on HAL in decades) seems to have lost their direction as a brand. Factor in the ill-effects of that disruption (supply-chain issues, labor shortages, an empty til) and we have, well, we have what we have now. 

Princess, in particular, seems to be a follower of trends now, not a leader in any. Their much ballyhooed rollout of "Medallion Class" was a curious way of matching the needs of the customer in a way that "elevate(s) the guest experience. Personally I have no problem with it, but the long lines at the internet help desk aboard suggest that many people do. "Who is the customer"? 

We still sail on Princess but we're tired of all the changes and we really don't see the benefits of Princess anymore being a distinguishing factor in choosing a line - save perhaps for the itineraries. Part of this is us - we're not getting any younger and many of the changes that Princess is bringing on are obviously geared towards a younger demographic. Can't blame Princess for that, but they're really not very good at reaching that demographic either as compared to some of their competitors. They seem stuck between generations.

Frankly the whole experience of cruising is changing too - too many mega-ships, imo, clogging up the works. Too many ships at what used to be idyllic ports. Just too many people - except crews. I wonder of the labor shortage aboard these floating cities is due to the well running dry or is it like college football now - if you don't like the program, you just transfer to another ship/company.

Good luck, Jan - you'll need it.