New houskeeping and tipping

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, mz-s said:

 

not saying you've said this ... read post #6, #11, #13, #17, #20 on this thread ... and that's just the first page ...

So people on the other side also misunderstand how things work and my remarks would be directed at them as well.

[kirtihk]

11 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I'll put it this way- I know a gentleman that works as a bellhop at a resort here in my state and has worked there since high school. He makes at least $50k in tips each year by a conservative reckoning. How much more would that resort need to raise their rates in order to give him that type of income? It's not as easy as you make it out to be.

The arithmetic is the same and simple: say, you pay $1,000 per stay (a week) in the resort and then pay $100 as tip, and the wage of a person who get your tip is $30,000 per year or $2,500 per month plus your $100 tip making it total $2,600; now, instead you pay $1,100 per stay (including tips invisible to you) - in the latter case, the wage of a person (who would get $100 tip in the former case) would increase by the same amount which is $100 per week bringing it to $2,600.

[mz-s]

36 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I'll put it this way- I know a gentleman that works as a bellhop at a resort here in my state and has worked there since high school. He makes at least $50k in tips each year by a conservative reckoning. How much more would that resort need to raise their rates in order to give him that type of income? It's not as easy as you make it out to be.

 

There are still bellhops in the UK and other cultures where tipping is not common and even seen as unwelcome. The invisible hand of the marketplace figures out how much these jobs are worth.

[sparks1093]

15 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

The arithmetic is the same and simple: say, you pay $1,000 per stay (a week) in the resort and then pay $100 as tip, and the wage of a person who get your tip is $30,000 per year or $2,500 per month plus your $100 tip making it total $2,600; now, instead you pay $1,100 per stay (including tips invisible to you) - in the latter case, the wage of a person (who would get $100 tip in the former case) would increase by the same amount which is $100 per week bringing it to $2,600.

It's not that easy- account for the slow season when there are fewer guests. Your $100 is going to quickly balloon into $500 or more. Plus you need to account for the people that will take their business elsewhere because the rates are lower.

[sparks1093]

9 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

There are still bellhops in the UK and other cultures where tipping is not common and even seen as unwelcome. The invisible hand of the marketplace figures out how much these jobs are worth.

I am well aware that there are non-tipping cultures out there but we aren't discussing them. You might not feel that a bellhop is worth $50k per year, but I'm sure the folks who are doing that job and making that kind of money would ask you to mind your own business and not upset their apple cart.

[Hoosierpop]

14 hours ago, Pika8347 said:

Rest assure folks, I remove my tips. It's my money, I'll spend it as I wish. I know this is unpopular and "self-righteous" but I work too hard for my money to be redistributed by an obscure formula. 

 

I, for one, will sleep easier tonight knowing you do that.

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that in those days behind the scenes folks were tipped out by those 4 particular crew members. That's the way tipping out works, the customer isn't aware of it.

You are correct.  On land, that bus person who ignored your dirty dishes is still  getting their 10% tip out from the wait staff

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

It was done so they could redistribute salaries off their balance sheet and directly onto the backs of their customers. A hidden price increase. And it gets worse every time they hike the gratuity rate. They certainly aren't increasing their level of service, anybody who has cruised Carnival consistently for the past several years can see it's quite the opposite in fact. Who knows how much of that increase each individual crew member sees - it's just as likely they just add more "behind the scenes" positions to the pool, or cut the base salary, so nobody really sees any increase at all.

 

By the way - Where else in the world are you called a cheapskate if you refuse to tip "behind the scenes" workers except the Carnival cruise critic forum I ask you? I don't know if there's a TGI Friday's Critic forum somewhere on the internet, but if there is - do they call you a cheapskate if you don't give a tip to the guy who refills the paper towels in the bathroom?

All the Las Vegas forums for people who refuse to tip for their "free" drinks

[Cushing985]

I don't spend a lot of money to go on a cruise to analyze and compute what I should give the crewmembers.  I don't know what they get paid over and above tips, I don't care how long they have to work and I don't care how many cabins they have to clean (as long as mine is cleaned).  The crew aren't slaves and they're free to leave the ship.  So, I leave the auto-tips on, tip a dollar or two on drink orders, add a dollar a plate for room service, and give extra on the last day if they deserve the extra money (and they always do).  My life is simple but happy.  I'll leave it to others to analyze, with a sharp #2 pencil, the correct amount to tip.

[Elaine5715]

15 minutes ago, Cushing985 said:

I don't spend a lot of money to go on a cruise to analyze and compute what I should give the crewmembers.  I don't know what they get paid over and above tips, I don't care how long they have to work and I don't care how many cabins they have to clean (as long as mine is cleaned).  The crew aren't slaves and they're free to leave the ship.  So, I leave the auto-tips on, tip a dollar or two on drink orders, add a dollar a plate for room service, and give extra on the last day if they deserve the extra money (and they always do).  My life is simple but happy.  I'll leave it to others to analyze, with a sharp #2 pencil, the correct amount to tip.

Don't we wish as much attention was given to how our cruise fare is distributed to the "beards"?  One wonders why?

[Jeafl]

I was once told by a crewmember that they prefer you mention them on your comment cards and surveys instead of giving them additional tips.  Apparently those that consistently get mentioned by name are the ones promoted and therefore given raises.  They also receive additional gifts as rewards for great customer service.

 

This is why I take note of the busboys/girls  in the buffet who are stuck cleaning up people's messes with a smile on their faces.  The more you acknowledge them, the more Carnival acknowledges them.  It makes perfect sense.

[hillbillycruisers]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:40 PM, mz-s said:

 

I wish they would. I think they should. AIs by and large don't do tipping. Neither does Virgin Voyages.

 

The main issue is baking gratuities into the cost of the cruise would raise Carnival's costs, and therefore fares, when their main differentiator in the marketplace is price. The fact that it isn't happening proves the cruise industry is happy with offloading a substantial portion of their expenses to their customer's shoulders directly.

I'm confident Carnival would never consider my suggestion...because as you stated, it would make the cost of THEIR cruise package somewhat higher. I just hate the fact that us as passengers have to pay a substantial amount of their employees wages....and since I fully realize their workers do work hard for their money, I hate the fact that passengers can remove their gratuities...for a good reason...bad reason...or simply no reason at all. Carnival doesn't seem to care about this. They say they do, but as long as people still book cruises under this system, and they ( Carnival) can  make themselves look good compared to other companies...nothing will ever change. I am also fully aware other cruise lines follow the same practice...so there's that. 

[Buckeyefrank100]

34 minutes ago, hillbillycruisers said:

I'm confident Carnival would never consider my suggestion...because as you stated, it would make the cost of THEIR cruise package somewhat higher. I just hate the fact that us as passengers have to pay a substantial amount of their employees wages....and since I fully realize their workers do work hard for their money, I hate the fact that passengers can remove their gratuities...for a good reason...bad reason...or simply no reason at all. Carnival doesn't seem to care about this. They say they do, but as long as people still book cruises under this system, and they ( Carnival) can  make themselves look good compared to other companies...nothing will ever change. I am also fully aware other cruise lines follow the same practice...so there's that. 

This doesn't make any sense.  Regardless of whether a SC or tip is given directly to the staff or it is paid as a wage, the passengers are in fact paying 100% of the employee wages.

[mz-s]

7 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I am well aware that there are non-tipping cultures out there but we aren't discussing them. You might not feel that a bellhop is worth $50k per year, but I'm sure the folks who are doing that job and making that kind of money would ask you to mind your own business and not upset their apple cart.

 

Bellhops are typically not paid via automatic 'gratuities' so forgive me for being slow on the uptake here. I simply don't see the connection.

[sanmarcosman]

20 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

Bellhops are typically not paid via automatic 'gratuities' so forgive me for being slow on the uptake here. I simply don't see the connection.

They are when assigned to move the bags with guests that are part of a group sales contract that specifies a guaranteed tip for each bag which is taken to and from outside the guest room and taken to an excursion bus chartered for the group. In cities with high summer tourism these guaranteed tips go on the employees paychecks and are taxable. During peak season these tour groups contribute the bulk of tips paid to the bell staff. Fact.

[mz-s]

15 minutes ago, sanmarcosman said:

They are when assigned to move the bags with guests that are part of a group sales contract that specifies a guaranteed tip for each bag which is taken to and from outside the guest room and taken to an excursion bus chartered for the group. In cities with high summer tourism these guaranteed tips go on the employees paychecks and are taxable. During peak season these tour groups contribute the bulk of tips paid to the bell staff. Fact.

what in the world does that I have to do with the price of rice in china

[sanmarcosman]

8 minutes ago, mz-s said:

what in the world does that I have to do with the price of rice in china

Here are your words, I hope they help answer your question. " Bellhops are typically not paid via automatic 'gratuities' " 

[mz-s]

23 minutes ago, sanmarcosman said:

Here are your words, I hope they help answer your question. " Bellhops are typically not paid via automatic 'gratuities' " 

And the 3 “bellhops” in the world that fit your crazy qualifications somehow changes that? 

[sanmarcosman]

2 minutes ago, mz-s said:

And the 3 “bellhops” in the world that fit your crazy qualifications somehow changes that? 

You haven't the first clue. Cruise lines, like Carnival, have job descriptions for their hospitality crew modeled after American hotel workers. This is nothing new. 

[rs45thompson]

On 2/12/2023 at 1:47 PM, EngIceDave said:

Think of this logic...

 

You go to Disney World, go all through the park, but you decide that the only person who deserves to be paid is that one girl who buckled your seat belt on Space Mountain for you.

 

She deserves it because she was hands on with you.

 

Never mind all the people who run the ride, secures your safety, it's cleanliness and assists that young lady who helped you.

 

But only she is to be paid.

 

Yes, she is the only one to be paid.  I think as Americans we forgot what a tip is.  We over-tip and tip for everything.  I do the auto gratuity but totally disagree with it.  This is the definition of a  tip:

noun: tip; plural noun: tips

1. 1. 

   a sum of money given to someone as a reward for their services.

   "he never leaves a tip"

    

   It is my money I worked for and I should decide who to tip and how much.  It shouldn't be mandatory and I shouldn't be made to feel guilty if I don't want to tip everyone on the ship.  When I go into a restaurant I tip my waitress.  I don't tip the cook, the dishwasher, or the person who seats me.  When I stay in a hotel I don't tip the people who clean the sheets or the person who checks me in.  I leave money for the person who cleans the room.  

    

   At this point on cruise ships, we aren't tipping but supplementing salaries and that is not the definition of a tip.  Maybe that is why they have changed the name to service charge.

    

   This is my opinion and I'm sure others have differing opinions.

    

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, rs45thompson said:

Yes, she is the only one to be paid.  I think as Americans we forgot what a tip is.  We over-tip and tip for everything.  I do the auto gratuity but totally disagree with it.  This is the definition of a  tip:

noun: tip; plural noun: tips

1. 1. 

   a sum of money given to someone as a reward for their services.

   "he never leaves a tip"

    

   It is my money I worked for and I should decide who to tip and how much.  It shouldn't be mandatory and I shouldn't be made to feel guilty if I don't want to tip everyone on the ship.  When I go into a restaurant I tip my waitress.  I don't tip the cook, the dishwasher, or the person who seats me.  When I stay in a hotel I don't tip the people who clean the sheets or the person who checks me in.  I leave money for the person who cleans the room.  

    

   At this point on cruise ships, we aren't tipping but supplementing salaries and that is not the definition of a tip.  Maybe that is why they have changed the name to service charge.

    

   This is my opinion and I'm sure others have differing opinions.

    

This was Seattle.  Notice the cook's "commission" .  You may just tip your waitress or waiter but they tip the host, bussers, bartenders and expeditors.  

[Guest BasicSailor]

4 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

This was Seattle.  Notice the cook's "commission" .  You may just tip your waitress or waiter but they tip the host, bussers, bartenders and expeditors.  

WA State 5.20 Corrected

Edited February 16, 2023 by BasicSailor

[Pellaz]

17 hours ago, mz-s said:

By the way - Where else in the world are you called a cheapskate if you refuse to tip "behind the scenes" workers except the Carnival cruise critic forum I ask you? 

 

Oh, I dunno.   The Royal board, the Norwegian board....just for starters.  

 

13 hours ago, Jeafl said:

I was once told by a crewmember that they prefer you mention them on your comment cards and surveys instead of giving them additional tips.  Apparently those that consistently get mentioned by name are the ones promoted and therefore given raises.  They also receive additional gifts as rewards for great customer service.

 

This is why I take note of the busboys/girls  in the buffet who are stuck cleaning up people's messes with a smile on their faces.  The more you acknowledge them, the more Carnival acknowledges them.  It makes perfect sense.

 

Yes, mentions on post-cruise surveys benefit crewpeople a lot, including more time-off in port.   

 

I don't like the way some cruise employees have been very upfront about telling us about the survey and how important it is...and by implication, how we should fill it out.   

OTOH, It's fine (IMO) when they make sure we know what their names are, though, if it's done discreetly.  That's intel I'll need when I complete the survey and praise the employees who rose above and beyond.  

[Elaine5715]

8 hours ago, Pellaz said:

 

Oh, I dunno.   The Royal board, the Norwegian board....just for starters.  

 

 

Yes, mentions on post-cruise surveys benefit crewpeople a lot, including more time-off in port.   

 

I don't like the way some cruise employees have been very upfront about telling us about the survey and how important it is...and by implication, how we should fill it out.   

OTOH, It's fine (IMO) when they make sure we know what their names are, though, if it's done discreetly.  That's intel I'll need when I complete the survey and praise the employees who rose above and beyond.  

Mentioning names with positive comments counterbalances the negative comments.  

[Elaine5715]

14 hours ago, BasicSailor said:

WA State 5.20 Corrected

There was a 5% cooks "commission" of $2.45 in addition to the WA sales taxes