Seabourn odyssey sold

[commodoredave]

2 hours ago, Kilroyshere said:

 

Odyssey was almost 5 years in planning, building and launched in 2010. Sold after just over a decade in service (including pandemic stand-down) is very peculiar to us. Her service life to SB would have had at least another decade of use. Begs the question why she really has been sold?

 

The first 3 O-Class, 450 capacity ships in our experience, kept up the standards of excellence SB was built on with their previous 3 little sister ships (200 capacity).

 

Then came Corporate's decision to build 2 more O ships with an additional deck and another 150 passengers (604 capacity) in basically the same O hull. Service declined, exclusivity and excellence in our eyes was diminished.

 

SB excellence of service has been steadily declining and becoming more mass market to us. And that decline in our eyes began before the pandemic. Our last 2 SB cruises were not what we came to love and became loyal to.

 

It takes 5 years or longer from Corporate commitment, planning, financing, design, contracting, laying keel and floating to put a new ship into service. SB has nothing known on the drawing board.

 

SB is capacity fixed over the next half decade with 2 in her fleet purpose built expedition ships (a separate market). SB is indeed a smaller player in the Luxury small ship cruise traditional destination line-up.

 

This does not in our eyes, portend well for SB as we came to enjoy cruising with.

 

Perhaps the Luxury small ship industry has seen it's best days.

 

Perhaps the Celebrity model with 4 classes on each ship is the future; Celebrity offers "Retreat" class with SB/Regent quality service, food and private dining room, lounges, spas, outdoor dedicated spaces. Then they offer "Aqua" class, "Concierge" class and 'steerage' class. One ship with different class experiences and levels of service. They seem to be running at near full capacity with Retreat prices comparable to SB/Regent fares. 

 

One ship with many classes is not new. Cunard and most 20th Century passenger ships offered multi-class service when ships were the primary trans-ocean mode of transportation.

 

Times change, economies change, audiences change.

 

Beyond expedition cruising, we hope SB's Corporate shows us a new model and plans that will keep SB in our repertoire of vacation plans.

Excellent analysis and commentary. Thanks.

[Vineyard View]

Having never sailed on multi-class ships such as Celebrity- my inexperienced opinion is that even if you sail in retreat, or aqua classes, you still have to step step outside of your ‘bubble’ to the masses and that energy it creates?  You still are restricted to the ports which can handle these behemoth ships. You still have to depart with the thousands at each port. How that equates to luxury, or even premium cruising experience escapes my understanding. I have zero desire. I sincerely hope that in the near future that does not become the norm of ‘luxury’ cruises. It would take a lot to convince me to do such a sailing unless it was a multigenerational family trip - - and even then not sure I could sail on such large ships. 

[Kilroyshere]

2 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

Having never sailed on multi-class ships such as Celebrity- my inexperienced opinion is that even if you sail in retreat, or aqua classes, you still have to step step outside of your ‘bubble’ to the masses and that energy it creates?  You still are restricted to the ports which can handle these behemoth ships. You still have to depart with the thousands at each port. How that equates to luxury, or even premium cruising experience escapes my understanding. I have zero desire. I sincerely hope that in the near future that does not become the norm of ‘luxury’ cruises. It would take a lot to convince me to do such a sailing unless it was a multigenerational family trip - - and even then not sure I could sail on such large ships. 

 

Agreed that once outside the 'Retreat' (aptly named btw), you are on a mass market big cruise ship.

 

Celebrity is filling their Retreat rooms at premium prices and they are building a younger audience that has many more future celebrity loyalty cruise years business potential.

 

Given current economic, staffing, logistics, fuel costs/uncertainty and health issues particular to cruising, we cannot see SB's viable future plans.

 

SB's 2 specialty purpose built expedition ships were committed and built before the pandemic. With no new ships on SB's drawing board and sale of Odyssey, in 2024 SB will have 605 fewer traditional cruise itinerary beds than they did pre-pandemic. SB's loyalty base is arguably aging out faster than the Celebrity model. That is not a good business outlook nor future cruise option in our opinion.

 

Cruise lines must constantly upgrade and morph with changing economies and market conditions and consumer demands. What exactly is SB doing to address this?

 

SB built the last 2 O-class ships that for us are over-crowded. They added another deck with 150 more beds. The MDR, SB Square and other popular venues were not equally made larger to accommodate the added capacity. This was a big mistake and detraction from SB in our opinion as customers.

 

5 years and better part of a billion dollars to put another ship under the SB flag? I don't see that happening given CCL's balance sheet and public announcements.

 

Will SB purchase secondary market ships like Crystal's or other luxury small ship operator? Ya don't sell a fine ship like Odyssey, to later buy someone else's used ship. SB tried to rebrand the used SB Sun and it failed. Legend was a one-off opportunity because it was originally built alongside Pride and Spirit for another cruise line, so it needed no significant refit to morph into the fleet when acquired used.

 

Just our opinion here; SB might one day sooner than later, become a top class of service on a HAL, Cunard, Costa or Princess mass market cruise ship ala the Celebrity model with dedicated SB Square, dining, private club, etc within those big boats.

 

The Boeing 707 put the final coffin nail in the luxury ocean liner transportation industry.

 

Given the consumer, economy of scale, staffing issues and macro events, small ship luxury cruising as SB, Regent, Silversea et al offer today, may be what the great ocean liners were when Boeing first rolled out the 707...

[commodoredave]

30 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

Having never sailed on multi-class ships such as Celebrity- my inexperienced opinion is that even if you sail in retreat, or aqua classes, you still have to step step outside of your ‘bubble’ to the masses and that energy it creates?  You still are restricted to the ports which can handle these behemoth ships. You still have to depart with the thousands at each port. How that equates to luxury, or even premium cruising experience escapes my understanding. I have zero desire. I sincerely hope that in the near future that does not become the norm of ‘luxury’ cruises. It would take a lot to convince me to do such a sailing unless it was a multigenerational family trip - - and even then not sure I could sail on such large ships. 

Multigenerational cruises and traveling with friends who can’t afford the more expensive ships are the reasons we have sailed on bigger ships. 

[Kilroyshere]

2 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

Multigenerational cruises and traveling with friends who can’t afford the more expensive ships are the reasons we have sailed on bigger ships. 

No kids amenities or activities on SB was a big plus for us.

 

But for a family, SB is not as viable or cost effective.

 

Multi classes on bigger ships afford mom and dad the ultra exclusive service choice, while putting the kids in a budget priced room and letting them enjoy the facilities focused on kids and younger audiences.

 

 

[commodoredave]

4 minutes ago, Kilroyshere said:

Given the consumer, economy of scale, staffing issues and macro events, small ship luxury cruising as SB, Regent, Silversea et al offer today, may be what the great ocean liners were when Boeing first rolled out the 707.

i hope and believe you are wrong. Small and medium-sized ship cruising appears to have a strong future based on the growth of cabins in this segment. In particular, the expedition cruise market has exploded. 

[cruiseej]

7 hours ago, Kilroyshere said:

in 2024 SB will have 605 fewer traditional cruise itinerary beds than they did pre-pandemic.

 

I'm not following that math. From pre-pandemic 2020 to August 2024, the only change in "traditional cruise itinerary beds" will be the sale of the Odyssey, which has 225 suites (450 beds).

 

But, you fanjet discount that they did replace those beds with 264 suites (528 beds) on the two new expedition ships. Expedition cruises are certainly not what everyone is looking for, but I think many experienced Seabourn cruisers wanted something new and different, and these ships allow Seabourn to offer something new and different. From a corporate standpoint, the expedition ships probably pull in more revenue per passenger day, so if they're able to get the same occupancy rates as pre-pandemic, they will be more profitable (not adjusting for inflationary impacts on supplies, staff, fuel, etc.).

 

 

[Kilroyshere]

13 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

 

I'm not following that math. From pre-pandemic 2020 to August 2024, the only change in "traditional cruise itinerary beds" will be the sale of the Odyssey, which has 225 suites (450 beds).

 

But, you fanjet discount that they did replace those beds with 264 suites (528 beds) on the two new expedition ships. Expedition cruises are certainly not what everyone is looking for, but I think many experienced Seabourn cruisers wanted something new and different, and these ships allow Seabourn to offer something new and different. From a corporate standpoint, the expedition ships probably pull in more revenue per passenger day, so if they're able to get the same occupancy rates as pre-pandemic, they will be more profitable (not adjusting for inflationary impacts on supplies, staff, fuel, etc.).

 

 

 

My math stands corrected.

 

Over the next 5 years or so without building a new ship(s) or buying used vessels, SB loses 450 beds with the sale of Odyssey and gains 528 beds in 2 new purpose built expedition ships. That's a net gain of 78 beds, a negligible number IMO for a 5 year outlook.

 

Profitability is unknown; Fuel, crew and overhead running 2 expedition ships with 528 beds vs. 450 with one general cruise itinerary ship that had another 10 years SB life in it?

 

I'm not discounting the value of the expedition ships. Silversea's future is heavily invested in expedition cruises. But I don't believe expedition ships carry enough passengers for SB's financial future and there are no other SB expedition ships nor general cruise ships ordered that anyone publicly knows of.

 

That's my opinion.

 

[Cantara24]

Well Odyssey had officially changed ownership, AIS now shows her owner as MOI-Mitsui OSK Line. Hope the leaseback payments justify this move. Sad to lose her.

[DTtravelers]

To paraphrase Hippocrates, "desperate times call for desperate measures"

 

We get to enjoy Odyssey one last time this summer.  Quest and Odyssey suited our needs perfectly, so this sale is sad to us.  They both have kayaks, zodiacs, and Expedition/Venture crews.

 

As far as the expedition market: since 2018, 31 new expedition type vessels with ice-strengthened hulls have been (or soon will be) added, with base capacity of 6,100+ beds.  It seems that everyone had the same idea to expand into this market all at once.  Maybe these decision makers are all geniuses, but at about $1,000 pp pd, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.  I wish them all the best.

 

[Dusko]

7 hours ago, DTtravelers said:

To paraphrase Hippocrates, "desperate times call for desperate measures"

 

We get to enjoy Odyssey one last time this summer.  Quest and Odyssey suited our needs perfectly, so this sale is sad to us.  They both have kayaks, zodiacs, and Expedition/Venture crews.

 

As far as the expedition market: since 2018, 31 new expedition type vessels with ice-strengthened hulls have been (or soon will be) added, with base capacity of 6,100+ beds.  It seems that everyone had the same idea to expand into this market all at once.  Maybe these decision makers are all geniuses, but at about $1,000 pp pd, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.  I wish them all the best.

 

Well, we’ll find out. We have our June trip on Venture to Iceland/Greenland. No interest in Antarctica and have done the Amazon. Where do we go from here? 

[Mr Luxury]

3 hours ago, Dusko said:

Well, we’ll find out. We have our June trip on Venture to Iceland/Greenland. No interest in Antarctica and have done the Amazon. Where do we go from here? 

Vegas?

[DTtravelers]

11 hours ago, Dusko said:

Well, we’ll find out. We have our June trip on Venture to Iceland/Greenland. No interest in Antarctica and have done the Amazon. Where do we go from here? 

Hi Dusko:

 

Your comment, "Where do we go from here?"  got me LOL.

 

It's funny that we all looked at each other in the Lemaire Channel in Antarctica and used those exact, same words, while standing on the deck right here:

 

 

But then it only got better and better and better.  None of us would have believed that was possible.

 

After Antarctica, I was actually afraid that the Southeast Alaska cruise last year would be a bit disappointing.  But it was not disappointing at all, just two completely different experiences.

 

While there are no polar bears in Antarctica, there are no penguins in the Arctic.  🙂  The tiny little black dots in the foreground are Adeles.  And the face of the tabular iceberg in the back is 210 feet high... 

 

 

Iceland/Greenland maybe '24 or '25.  Now if only they would sail from Bergen to Tromso to Svalbard to Scoresby Sound and circumnavigate Iceland,,,  all in one trip!

 

Happy sailing, wherever you go!

 

[LexStone]

Sad that Odyssey has been sold, always had such fun on it.

But let’s stay positive - hopefully it’s the only vessel Seabourn will be selling anytime soon. 

[kowhairob]

On 3/17/2023 at 9:55 PM, SLSD said:

 

I understand that many do not like Ovation and Encore and prefer the smaller ships.  We've sailed both and prefer the larger ships.  Of course we seldom/never lounge by the pool which may make a difference.  

I prefer the larger ships due to the much larger gym and workout areas , The Beautiful Tk grill Bar and Restaurant and  never really noticing that there's 150 more passengers on board