Gate1 Lake Como to Lake Maggiore itinerary change

[Thompsam]

I am booked on a Gate1 Rhine River cruise later this year and have just been informed by Gate1 that our 2 night extension to Lake Como is no longer part of or itinerary and they have substituted 2 nights on Lake Maggiore as well as a couple of other itinerary changes.  This change was very disappointing as one of the primary reasons for booking this itinerary was the Lake Como segment.  Gate1 has not offered to reduce the cost of the trip or offered any other type of compensation even though in my opinion, this itinerary change reduces the value of the trip.  

 

Is anyone on this forum had their itinerary unilaterally changed like this?  If so, we’re you able to get Gate1 or a different cruise line to reduce the cost of the trip or provide any additional compensation?

Edited March 27, 2023 by Thompsam
Word change

[CruisingAlong4Now]

It is not uncommon for cruises to have itinerary changes.  Your contract generally provides for the changes.

 

On an ocean cruise, you would have the port charges refunded (or adjusted for a substitute port).  

 

There is almost never a price adjustment due to port changes.

[Coral]

I agree this would be disappointing. Did they give you a reason?

[Thompsam]

11 hours ago, CruisingAlong4Now said:

It is not uncommon for cruises to have itinerary changes.  Your contract generally provides for the changes.

 

On an ocean cruise, you would have the port charges refunded (or adjusted for a substitute port).  

 

There is almost never a price adjustment due to port changes.

I accept that minor changes are possible, but to me, this is not a "minor" change.  We're not being moved between hotels in the same city or substituting a dinner at one restaurant for another.  To me, this is like booking a trip to Venice and having the provider unilaterally change the itinerary to Milan.  Yes Milan is a wonderful place to visit, but it isn't Venice.   We would not have booked this itinerary if the Italian segment was Lake Maggiore, not Lake Como.

[Thompsam]

11 hours ago, Coral said:

I agree this would be disappointing. Did they give you a reason?

The reason was something along the lines of "it's hard for business to meet staffing needs worldwide in this post-COVID world (she used retail establishments/restaurants as examples), so that somehow made Lake Como area services harder to come by than Lake Maggiore area services.

 

That was the marketing spin.  I'm sure the real reason is profit.  I'm sure its cheaper for hotels/excursions in the Lake Maggiore area an if they can charge the cruiser the same amount, Gate 1 makes more profit.  

[Deb922]

Not sure it’s about more profit but likely about not losing money on accommodations. Lake Como hotels were likely too expensive for the price customers paid or no availability at those hotels that are in that price range. 
 

The hotel Gate 1 used in the past may have decided not to book with them as they could fill their hotel with customers paying them more. 
 

Plenty of reasons, all of them come down to money. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Deb922

[deec]

When does you cruise leave?  I agree sounds "bait and switch"

[Coral]

8 hours ago, Deb922 said:

Not sure it’s about more profit but likely about not losing money on accommodations. Lake Como hotels were likely too expensive for the price customers paid or no availability at those hotels that are in that price range. 
 

The hotel Gate 1 used in the past may have decided not to book with them as they could fill their hotel with customers paying them more. 
 

Plenty of reasons, all of them come down to money. 

They (Gate 1) should have considered that before they advertised a Lake Cuomo extension. These contracts are signed easily a year in advance. Unless the hotel went bankrupt or became damaged due to natural disaster, there really isn't a good reason IMO.

[Thompsam]

5 hours ago, deec said:

When does you cruise leave?  I agree sounds "bait and switch"

Not till October, but it appears from their web site that all of the cruises from May 20 on are swapping Lake Maggiore for Lake Como.  I honestly don’t think it’s a true bait and switch as Gate 1 has been running trips to Como.  I do think someone at Gate made a business decision to switch to increase their profit as I suspect the Lake Maggiore costs are lower.  So far, they haven’t offered anything to compensate us for the lower value Lake Maggiore segment, which is also disappointing.

[Thompsam]

46 minutes ago, Coral said:

They (Gate 1) should have considered that before they advertised a Lake Cuomo extension. These contracts are signed easily a year in advance. Unless the hotel went bankrupt or became damaged due to natural disaster, there really isn't a good reason IMO.

My thoughts exactly.  The hotel is still open and taking reservations.

[Coral]

14 minutes ago, Thompsam said:

Not till October, but it appears from their web site that all of the cruises from May 20 on are swapping Lake Maggiore for Lake Como.  I honestly don’t think it’s a true bait and switch as Gate 1 has been running trips to Como.  I do think someone at Gate made a business decision to switch to increase their profit as I suspect the Lake Maggiore costs are lower.  So far, they haven’t offered anything to compensate us for the lower value Lake Maggiore segment, which is also disappointing.

I am so sorry. I agree - this is a huge deviation and I would be greatly disappointed if it happened to me (as I really want to see Lake Como and I personally have not heard of Lake Maggiore). 

[Guest ldtr]

I assume that you are talking about Gate1  13 day Rhine River Cruise with Italian Lakes and Swiss Alps.  I looked at that tour a couple weeks ago.

 

From what I have seen on that tour  the general description says Lake Como or Baveno (on Lake Maggiore).  The itinerary lists only lake Como, but the hotels show one in Lake Como and another on Lake Maggiore.

 

My read of the description is that one might either go to Lake Como or Lake Maggiore.  The dates for the tours do not seem to say for sure which it would be that any specific travel date.

 

Since the tour says Italian Lakes, not Lake Como I do not see anything that guarantees that it will be Lake Como for any given date.  Kind of luck of the draw on which one you will get.

 

I suspect that they try for Lake Como if they can get it, but no guarantee.

 

Just looked at the web site and  the following comes from the Highlights

•  
  • 2 nights Baveno or Lake Como
•  
• A scenic cruise on one of the Italian Lakes
•  

Edited March 29, 2023 by ldtr

[Thompsam]

7 hours ago, ldtr said:

I assume that you are talking about Gate1  13 day Rhine River Cruise with Italian Lakes and Swiss Alps.  I looked at that tour a couple weeks ago.

 

From what I have seen on that tour  the general description says Lake Como or Baveno (on Lake Maggiore).  The itinerary lists only lake Como, but the hotels show one in Lake Como and another on Lake Maggiore.

 

My read of the description is that one might either go to Lake Como or Lake Maggiore.  The dates for the tours do not seem to say for sure which it would be that any specific travel date.

 

Since the tour says Italian Lakes, not Lake Como I do not see anything that guarantees that it will be Lake Como for any given date.  Kind of luck of the draw on which one you will get.

 

I suspect that they try for Lake Como if they can get it, but no guarantee.

 

Just looked at the web site and  the following comes from the Highlights

•  
  • 2 nights Baveno or Lake Como
•  
• A scenic cruise on one of the Italian Lakes
•  

Yes, this is what is presently on the Gate1 web site..  However, when we booked the trip 6 months ago,  the itinerary we booked was specific to Lake Como.  My reservation listed a hotel in Lake Como and our itinerary included "a scenic morning cruise on Lake Como to the exquisite village of Bellagio, named "The Pearl" of Lake Como."  It also included a stop at the northern shore of glacial Lake Lugano enroute to Lucerne. 

 

We chose the itinerary because of the Lake Como segment and  would have not booked this itinerary if it was on a random Italian lake to be chosen by Gate 1 at a later date.  Their May 9th departure is the last itinerary that goes to Lake Como.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Thompsam
date error

[Guest ldtr]

I suspect that Gate1 does not make any more profit due to the change any savings from hotel would get eaten up in transfer cost since it is further from Milan to get to Baveno.

 

I expect the problem has more to do with the fact that the stay in Como or Baveno is Wednesday, Thursday and it appears there there is no availability at the Barchetta Excelsior from May until October 4th on any Wednesday night   Yet the Thursday night is free for almost all weeks.  It looks like some other tour company has locked up Wednesdays for the entire season and Gate1 got bumped out.  Now May 10/11 are both booked solid and that corresponds to the date that you said is the last Gate1 trip going there.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by ldtr

[Thompsam]

10 minutes ago, ldtr said:

I suspect that Gate1 does not make any more profit due to the change any savings from hotel would get eaten up in transfer cost since it is further from Milan to get to Baveno.

 

I expect the problem has more to do with the fact that the stay in Como or Baveno is Wednesday, Thursday and it appears there there is no availability at the Barchetta Excelsior from May until October 4th on any Wednesday night   Yet the Thursday night is free for almost all weeks.  It looks like some other tour company has locked up Wednesdays for the entire season and Gate1 got bumped out.  Now May 10/11 are both booked solid and that corresponds to the date that you said is the last Gate1 trip going there.

 

 

 

 

You may be right, but as @Coral stated earlier in this thread and I fully agreed with - "They (Gate 1) should have considered that before they advertised a Lake Cuomo extension. These contracts are signed easily a year in advance."  

 

Your response did prompt me to do an hotel room search on Lake Como for the two nights we were supposed to stay there, Oct 4-6 and there are many hotels with rooms available.  We were not given the option of moving to another hotel and keeping the Lake Como itinerary.

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, Thompsam said:

You may be right, but as @Coral stated earlier in this thread and I fully agreed with - "They (Gate 1) should have considered that before they advertised a Lake Cuomo extension. These contracts are signed easily a year in advance."  

 

Your response did prompt me to do an hotel room search on Lake Como for the two nights we were supposed to stay there, Oct 4-6 and there are many hotels with rooms available.  We were not given the option of moving to another hotel and keeping the Lake Como itinerary.

Rooms available not necessarily enough rooms to handle an entire tour group. From experience a number of the hotels in Como are not exactly good fits for primarily US tour groups. 

 

Last time I was there we were in the same Hotel on a Collette tour. I considered marginal, except for location at that time. The hotel next to it to the left as you face the Lake is also used by tour groups, but it is fully booked on the 4th.

 

 

[Coral]

15 hours ago, ldtr said:

Rooms available not necessarily enough rooms to handle an entire tour group. From experience a number of the hotels in Como are not exactly good fits for primarily US tour groups. 

 

Last time I was there we were in the same Hotel on a Collette tour. I considered marginal, except for location at that time. The hotel next to it to the left as you face the Lake is also used by tour groups, but it is fully booked on the 4th.

 

 

Though - most other tour agencies if they reserve rooms for 10 couples on this pre-cruise extension, they have an arrangement with the hotel for 10 rooms dedicated to them. If the company only sells 5 rooms by this date, they forfeit the the other 5 rooms. Or on the other hand, if they sell 10 rooms and want more, it depends on the hotel and their availability if they can get more rooms. This is standard hotel/vendor contract arrangements. Maybe Gate 1's contract wasn't that great or maybe the hotel offered them money to release the rooms for another vendor. Regardless, I would be greatly disappointed if it was me.

 

Unless there was language that said that the pre-cruise extension was dependent on reaching a certain level, they are acting in bad faith. I think they have language that allows them to change anything but this is not like just switching from the Hilton to the Holiday Inn.

[Thompsam]

On 3/30/2023 at 7:32 AM, Coral said:

Though - most other tour agencies if they reserve rooms for 10 couples on this pre-cruise extension, they have an arrangement with the hotel for 10 rooms dedicated to them. If the company only sells 5 rooms by this date, they forfeit the the other 5 rooms. Or on the other hand, if they sell 10 rooms and want more, it depends on the hotel and their availability if they can get more rooms. This is standard hotel/vendor contract arrangements. Maybe Gate 1's contract wasn't that great or maybe the hotel offered them money to release the rooms for another vendor. Regardless, I would be greatly disappointed if it was me.

 

Unless there was language that said that the pre-cruise extension was dependent on reaching a certain level, they are acting in bad faith. I think they have language that allows them to change anything but this is not like just switching from the Hilton to the Holiday Inn.

Agree.  There is language in the passenger agreement that allows for changes but like you,  I view this like changing a booked itinerary to the Grand Canyon to a trip to Bryce Canyon. For a European visitor to the US, Bryce Canyon is very nice and would be an interesting place to visit, but it’s not the Grand Canyon.  
 

We”d have been happy with a downgrade from a Hilton class hotel to a holiday inn class hotel, if the new hotel was on Lake Como.  So far, Gate 1 doesn’t seem to see it that way and hasn’t appeared to care that we and probably a hundred plus other booked passengers, aren’t happy with the change.

[twototravel]

@Thompsam I think we may be on the same trip - 16 Day Rhine River Cruise with Italian Lakes. Swiss Alps, Brugge and Paris. We leave 9 May. Our departure date is still going to Lake Como. We were originally switched from Como to Lake Maggiore, but then switched back to Como, albeit a different hotel. I heard from a Gate 1 rep that there were issues getting boats on Como due to construction. I think our departure is the only one still going to Como. On the plus side, I've heard wonderful things about Maggiore and Baveno so I think you will still have a wonderful trip. Besides, this is only a couple days out of the entire itinerary.

[Thompsam]

2 hours ago, twototravel said:

@Thompsam I think we may be on the same trip - 16 Day Rhine River Cruise with Italian Lakes. Swiss Alps, Brugge and Paris. We leave 9 May. Our departure date is still going to Lake Como. We were originally switched from Como to Lake Maggiore, but then switched back to Como, albeit a different hotel. I heard from a Gate 1 rep that there were issues getting boats on Como due to construction. I think our departure is the only one still going to Como. On the plus side, I've heard wonderful things about Maggiore and Baveno so I think you will still have a wonderful trip. Besides, this is only a couple days out of the entire itinerary.

Thanks for the info.  We are on the same trip except we don’t have the Brugge/Paris extension.  If there were issues getting boats on the water due to construction, I can begrudgingly accept that Gate 1 had no choice but to move to Maggiore.  That’s not what we were told though.

[Guest ldtr]

On 4/4/2023 at 11:46 AM, Thompsam said:

Thanks for the info.  We are on the same trip except we don’t have the Brugge/Paris extension.  If there were issues getting boats on the water due to construction, I can begrudgingly accept that Gate 1 had no choice but to move to Maggiore.  That’s not what we were told though.

I just took a look at the Como Ferry schedule.  When we have been there, there has always been a ferry from Como that went to Bellagio.  The dock is close to the hotel Gate1 normally uses there That is how we visited Bellagio on our Collette tour as well.  This year they seem to have eliminated or severely reduced the ferry stops at Como itself.  The construction might be related to the docks used by the ferry/tour boats in Como.

 

Just looked at google maps street view, the picture says that it was fairly recent, from December 2022 and there is substantial construction right next to the ferry docks.

 

Took a look at some of our pictures from our most recent trip and to the right of the Ferry dock, was where tour boats loaded.  In the December 2022 picture that area was fenced off and part of the construction zone.

Edited April 7, 2023 by ldtr

[Thompsam]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

I just took a look at the Como Ferry schedule.  When we have been there, there has always been a ferry from Como that went to Bellagio.  The dock is close to the hotel Gate1 normally uses there That is how we visited Bellagio on our Collette tour as well.  This year they seem to have eliminated or severely reduced the ferry stops at Como itself.  The construction might be related to the docks used by the ferry/tour boats in Como.

 

Just looked at google maps street view, the picture says that it was fairly recent, from December 2022 and there is substantial construction right next to the ferry docks.

 

Took a look at some of our pictures from our most recent trip and to the right of the Ferry dock, was where tour boats loaded.  In the December 2022 picture that area was fenced off and part of the construction zone.

Thanks.  I guess this may indeed be the  reason for the change although no one told us this.  It’s interesting that both AMA and Avalon still offer Como itineraries.  

[twototravel]

That’s probably why our hotel was changed. We were originally booked at the Hotel Metropole Suisse and now our reservation shows the Barchetta Excelsior. Although basically located around the same spot on the lake, the new hotel is a couple blocks back.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, Thompsam said:

Thanks.  I guess this may indeed be the  reason for the change although no one told us this.  It’s interesting that both AMA and Avalon still offer Como itineraries.  

The issue would not be staying in Como, but the boat tour portion.  Always possible that they are busing their folks to somewhere that they can pick up the ferry or a tour boat.  Then again from what I found looking at it earlier the hotel Gate one uses has no openings for one of the two nights the tour would be in town for every week from the May 9 date until mid October.  So it might be a combination of events.   Maybe the guide will tell Twototravel when they are on their May 9th tour.

[Guest ldtr]

54 minutes ago, twototravel said:

That’s probably why our hotel was changed. We were originally booked at the Hotel Metropole Suisse and now our reservation shows the Barchetta Excelsior. Although basically located around the same spot on the lake, the new hotel is a couple blocks back.

From what I recall there is basically an open area between the Barchatta Excelsior and the lake. So it is one block back but no buildings in front of it.

 

If you like History of Science check out the Giardini del Tempio Voltiano a couple of blocks to the left along the lake.  Very interest museum dedicated to Alessandro Volta and his experiments.  We found it interesting.