Need advice, cancelled flight by airline NCL not helping!

[DCGuy64]

On 5/3/2023 at 2:58 PM, ontheweb said:

Nice to have a post that is not a horror story!

The vast majority of people who use NCL's air have great experiences. The small minority who are dissatisfied post ad nauseum on here, leaving unsuspecting cruisers (especially newbies) with the false impression that most people have only horror stories. It's a pity, but it is what it is.

[RocketMan275]

22 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

The vast majority of people who use NCL's air have great experiences. The small minority who are dissatisfied post ad nauseum on here, leaving unsuspecting cruisers (especially newbies) with the false impression that most people have only horror stories. It's a pity, but it is what it is.

Funny thing.  An NCL employee asked if I wanted NCL air.  When I responded that I'm 'picky' about my flights, the employee said: "Then you probably don't want to use our air."

[DCGuy64]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

Funny thing.  An NCL employee asked if I wanted NCL air.  When I responded that I'm 'picky' about my flights, the employee said: "Then you probably don't want to use our air."

And that's because that poor employee only ever hears from the numerically small but vociferous minority who are mad, which only proves my point. 😁

[cruiseny4life]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

Funny thing.  An NCL employee asked if I wanted NCL air.  When I responded that I'm 'picky' about my flights, the employee said: "Then you probably don't want to use our air."

It's literally in the TA promo material that if a guest is particular about their flights, then TA's should not offer the NCL BOGO Air program to that guest. I'd assume NCL trains their employees in similar verbiage.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

The vast majority of people who use NCL's air have great experiences. The small minority who are dissatisfied post ad nauseum on here, leaving unsuspecting cruisers (especially newbies) with the false impression that most people have only horror stories. It's a pity, but it is what it is.

And they are very INSISTENT on their advice not to use it.

[UKstages]

25 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

It's literally in the TA promo material that if a guest is particular about their flights, then TA's should not offer the NCL BOGO Air program to that guest. I'd assume NCL trains their employees in similar verbiage.

 

well, actually, they probably should be trained to say something like "our air program offers a wonderful opportunity for you to save money, if you're flexible with your time and don't have a preferred airline."

 

if you're trying to sell something, you shouldn't emphasize the product's drawbacks!  that statement says basically the same thing, but in reverse... hey, you can save money if you're flexible, thereby emphasizing the product's chief benefit, but also opening it up for a discussion as to how the program works.

 

"well, what do you mean if i'm flexible?" 

 

"NCL chooses the most affordable routing from the airlines available to us at the time the air travel is coordinated."

 

"that sounds OK, but I only travel on delta and american airlines."

 

"well, in that case, we'd ask you to book your own flights directly with those airlines. we can't guarantee a flight on any particular airline, so the NCL air program is probably not a good fit with your travel plans."

 

that's a very different conversation than "yeah, i hear ya. NCL air sucks. a lot of my customers tell me that. i don't recommend it."

 

just sayin.'

[DCGuy64]

16 minutes ago, UKstages said:

 

well, actually, they probably should be trained to say something like "our air program offers a wonderful opportunity for you to save money, if you're flexible with your time and don't have a preferred airline."

 

if you're trying to sell something, you shouldn't emphasize the product's drawbacks!  that statement says basically the same thing, but in reverse... hey, you can save money if you're flexible, thereby emphasizing the product's chief benefit, but also opening it up for a discussion as to how the program works.

 

"well, what do you mean if i'm flexible?" 

 

"NCL chooses the most affordable routing from the airlines available to us at the time the air travel is coordinated."

 

"that sounds OK, but I only travel on delta and american airlines."

 

"well, in that case, we'd ask you to book your own flights directly with those airlines. we can't guarantee a flight on any particular airline, so the NCL air program is probably not a good fit with your travel plans."

 

that's a very different conversation than "yeah, i hear ya. NCL air sucks. a lot of my customers tell me that. i don't recommend it."

 

just sayin.'

Well said. VERY well said. I think context is everything. It strains credulity for me to believe an NCL employee would badmouth his own company. It's much more likely that the conversation went more along the lines of what you wrote. Still, and I understand the importance of brevity, but when someone posts that "they couldn't explain it" or "they told me not to buy this" I always suspect there's a lot more to it than they're letting on.

[RocketMan275]

12 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Well said. VERY well said. I think context is everything. It strains credulity for me to believe an NCL employee would badmouth his own company. It's much more likely that the conversation went more along the lines of what you wrote. Still, and I understand the importance of brevity, but when someone posts that "they couldn't explain it" or "they told me not to buy this" I always suspect there's a lot more to it than they're letting on.

 "Then you probably don't want to use our air." is an exact quote.

[UKstages]

6 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

It strains credulity for me to believe an NCL employee would badmouth his own company. It's much more likely that the conversation went more along the lines of what you wrote.

 

thanks.

 

for most of my my career, i have been affiliated with contact centers providing sales, customer service and client support and, sadly, it's all too common for reps to place the company in a bad light or to misrepresent the product or service or terms. NCL is somewhat unique in that their cruise consultants actually work for the company and are not subcontracted, but they still say things they shouldn't or are imprecise with their language.

 

i had a consultant tell me recently that the indulge food hall on the prima really should be open longer hours, but they can't do it because the food quality is too high and it would cost too much. that is a rouge interpretation of one rep and it sounds OK on the surface... the indulge food hall is great and serves high quality food! the problem is that he also said - essentially - that it was too expensive to operate and that is why NCL has chosen to deprive its valuable guests of high quality food. that is not a message that NCL wishes to promote, i'm sure.

[cruiseny4life]

37 minutes ago, UKstages said:

 

well, actually, they probably should be trained to say something like "our air program offers a wonderful opportunity for you to save money, if you're flexible with your time and don't have a preferred airline."

 

if you're trying to sell something, you shouldn't emphasize the product's drawbacks!  that statement says basically the same thing, but in reverse... hey, you can save money if you're flexible, thereby emphasizing the product's chief benefit, but also opening it up for a discussion as to how the program works.

 

"well, what do you mean if i'm flexible?" 

 

"NCL chooses the most affordable routing from the airlines available to us at the time the air travel is coordinated."

 

"that sounds OK, but I only travel on delta and american airlines."

 

"well, in that case, we'd ask you to book your own flights directly with those airlines. we can't guarantee a flight on any particular airline, so the NCL air program is probably not a good fit with your travel plans."

 

that's a very different conversation than "yeah, i hear ya. NCL air sucks. a lot of my customers tell me that. i don't recommend it."

 

just sayin.'

 

18 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Well said. VERY well said. I think context is everything. It strains credulity for me to believe an NCL employee would badmouth his own company. It's much more likely that the conversation went more along the lines of what you wrote. Still, and I understand the importance of brevity, but when someone posts that "they couldn't explain it" or "they told me not to buy this" I always suspect there's a lot more to it than they're letting on.

UKStages...while that may be a great way to explain it....NCL's material for TA's does not explain the conversation like that. It's pretty darn blunt. It's not for public consumption or I'd share...I know, I know. It looks like @RocketMan275's experience is in line with how NCL presents the information. 

[carohs]

7 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

 "Then you probably don't want to use our air." is an exact quote.

I appreciate this, actually. I would rather get the short to the point information, and let me decide if I want further explanation. Sometimes these customer service reps go on so much that I am tempted to cut them off. I am also the type of person that likes to do my own research, and not rely on what the service agent says, since they have been known to be wrong or unhelpful at times.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, UKstages said:

 

well, actually, they probably should be trained to say something like "our air program offers a wonderful opportunity for you to save money, if you're flexible with your time and don't have a preferred airline."

 

if you're trying to sell something, you shouldn't emphasize the product's drawbacks!  that statement says basically the same thing, but in reverse... hey, you can save money if you're flexible, thereby emphasizing the product's chief benefit, but also opening it up for a discussion as to how the program works.

 

I'm not at all interested in a sales pitch to get me to buy something that doesn't fit my requirements.  

I'm not interested in the cheapest flight, especially those with long layovers or that leave/arrive at uncomfortable times.

Comfort and convenience are the most important things to me when flying.

[UKstages]

18 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I'm not at all interested in a sales pitch to get me to buy something that doesn't fit my requirements. 

 

all well and good.

 

and how do you suppose the rep would learn that you're not interested and that a product or service doesn't fit your requirements? geez, i dunno... maybe by engaging you in conversation and having you tell him or her that you weren't interested? in which case, i am pretty darn sure that you would not be subjected to a "sales pitch."

 

if you don't want to talk to a human being, and be subjected to a "sales pitch," use the website or the app.

 

by the way, nowhere in my post did i suggest that a "sales pitch" was necessary. that's because a "sales pitch" is not required in order for someone to buy something or someone to sell something. a "sales pitch" is the pejorative phrase that you are using after the fact to describe a customer service interaction for a product or service that you yourself are not interested in.

 

47 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

NCL's material for TA's does not explain the conversation like that. It's pretty darn blunt. It's not for public consumption or I'd share...

 

yeah, i get that... but TAs are not NCL's cruise consultants... the folks you get when you call NCL. the promo materials used for TAs should not be used to train frontline agents. if they are, NCL should be prepared for whatever is in them to be quoted by agents to their customers. they should also be prepared for TAs to use that same language! and that means they should probably rewrite those promo materials. people (whether they be TAs or phone reps or customers) respond much better to positive messages. that doesn't mean you should lie... it just means you should reframe your message to express it positively.

[dcipjr]

On 5/2/2023 at 3:16 PM, RocketMan275 said:

Don't book third party airfare.  You will wind up in the middle between NCL pointing their finger at the airlines and the airlines pointing their finger at NCL.

 

This happened to us.

 

We had a ticketing issue with one of our flights booked by NCL air and I had no ticket in my name for our return flight.

 

NCL made the error, and the airline couldn't help us because the reservation belonged to NCL. I couldn't reach NCL via the phone, and had to book my own flight home at the ticket counter.

 

When I was trying to get reimbursed, NCL first told me to claim it with my travel insurance (even though travel insurance doesn't cover ticketing issues), then told me to get refunded from the airline.

 

It wasn't until I called the airline and was able to prove that NCL made a mistake with the tickets that NCL saw fit to reimburse me.

 

Involving a third party in your air arrangements is done at your own peril. The flights were cheaper, undoubtedly, but NCL's air department is kind of clueless and unreachable at the worst times.

 

I wouldn't book airfare through them again. It wasn't worth the savings.

Edited May 5, 2023 by dcipjr

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

 "Then you probably don't want to use our air." is an exact quote.

I don't doubt that. What I do doubt is that those 9 words represent the totality of the conversation. Although I'm willing to admit I could be proven wrong, I *highly* doubt someone called NCL, asked about the BOGO airfare and the rep on the phone immediately replied with those words. I just don't believe it. It's far more likely there was a conversation in which the caller made clear he had certain "must haves" and THEN the representative dissuaded him. Although, come to think of it, that's actually kind of nice, in a way, because instead of wasting the caller's time trying to convince him otherwise, he was honest and said, essentially, "it's not for you." I just know that the majority of people who use NCL's air are happy about it, but the ones who aren't, are the most vocal.

[carohs]

Let's be real. "Are you flexible" is the totality in deciding whether or not to use the BOGO air. Are you willing to fly any airline, at any time? Do you have the flexibility to make alternate arrangements if a problem with the flight arises? Will you get your knickers in a bunch when said problem occurs and NCL refuses to help, or roll with it and get it resolved by doing all the leg work yourself? 

Does a TA really need ask any other question to give you a "probably" response? If you need more than that, then you as a consumer should engage in further discussion. Anything else is a sales pitch. Aka, an effort to sell you something that you otherwise wouldn't have purchased. 

[DCGuy64]

1 minute ago, carohs said:

Let's be real. "Are you flexible" is the totality in deciding whether or not to use the BOGO air. Are you willing to fly any airline, at any time? Do you have the flexibility to make alternate arrangements if a problem with the flight arises? Will you get your knickers in a bunch when said problem occurs and NCL refuses to help, or roll with it and get it resolved by doing all the leg work yourself? 

Does a TA really need ask any other question to give you a "probably" response? If you need more than that, then you as a consumer should engage in further discussion. Anything else is a sales pitch. Aka, an effort to sell you something that you otherwise wouldn't have purchased. 

The real world experience of people I've talked with and asked isn't anywhere near as much of a gamble as what you're describing. There is some flexibility required, sure, but for instance, NCL tends to work with a handful of airlines where they're likely to find good deals, so it isn't "any airline, anytime." There are also plenty of people who've said they were able to get alternate flights in case one was cancelled or significantly delayed. I can only say that when we used it, it was fantastic. No delays, no hiccups, we were able to choose our seats (because we have status with American) and an unbeatable price. If you're the type to micromanage and want to control every single aspect of your flight, then yes, it's not for you. But it seems to be just fine for the vast majority who've used it.

[RocketMan275]

48 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I don't doubt that. What I do doubt is that those 9 words represent the totality of the conversation. Although I'm willing to admit I could be proven wrong, I *highly* doubt someone called NCL, asked about the BOGO airfare and the rep on the phone immediately replied with those words. I just don't believe it. It's far more likely there was a conversation in which the caller made clear he had certain "must haves" and THEN the representative dissuaded him. Although, come to think of it, that's actually kind of nice, in a way, because instead of wasting the caller's time trying to convince him otherwise, he was honest and said, essentially, "it's not for you." I just know that the majority of people who use NCL's air are happy about it, but the ones who aren't, are the most vocal.

Not at all.

I called about NCL transfers from the airport to the port.  Then the agent asked if I was interested in their airfares.  I responded that I was 'picky about my flights'.  The agent then said: "Then you probably don't want to use our air."

I'm sure that many, those looking for the cheapest possible fares, are happy with NCL.  I'm willing, happy even, to pay more for exactly what I want.

Edited May 5, 2023 by RocketMan275

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, UKstages said:

by the way, nowhere in my post did i suggest that a "sales pitch" was necessary. that's because a "sales pitch" is not required in order for someone to buy something or someone to sell something. a "sales pitch" is the pejorative phrase that you are using after the fact to describe a customer service interaction for a product or service that you yourself are not interested in.

A sales pitch is exactly what you're suggeting when you say the agent should put their product in the best possible light.  In fact, that approach is misleading and inaccurate.

Edited May 5, 2023 by RocketMan275

[DCGuy64]

Just now, RocketMan275 said:

Not at all.

I called about NCL transfers from the airport to the port.  Then the agent asked if I was interested in their airfares.  I responded that I was 'picky about my flights'.  The agent then said: "Then you probably don't want to use our air."

After reading the tales about BOGO airfares, I would not be happy with it.  

I don't book Inside Cabins and I don't book the cheapest flights.

Ah, then you probably don't want to use their air. 😉 I suspect that agent has had an earful from enough disgruntled passengers that it's best to respond that way. I think it's good you were upfront about being picky, it likely saved you and the agent a lot of time. What some people do, and I admit it's a pet peeve of mine (although it doesn't apply to you), is to say on the one hand that they're picky, then say BOGO air isn't for them, and then make sweeping, generalized statements with no proof like "no one should get this, it isn't worth it." Now that is making the assumption that everyone else is as picky as the speaker is. That is not proven, and it's dishonest to then say it's useless for everyone.

[carohs]

37 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

The real world experience of people I've talked with and asked isn't anywhere near as much of a gamble as what you're describing. There is some flexibility required, sure, but for instance, NCL tends to work with a handful of airlines where they're likely to find good deals, so it isn't "any airline, anytime." There are also plenty of people who've said they were able to get alternate flights in case one was cancelled or significantly delayed. I can only say that when we used it, it was fantastic. No delays, no hiccups, we were able to choose our seats (because we have status with American) and an unbeatable price. If you're the type to micromanage and want to control every single aspect of your flight, then yes, it's not for you. But it seems to be just fine for the vast majority who've used it.

1st, sorry to hijack your thread @Liz.m.m. Please keep us posted if there's any updates.

 

I would argue, given the number of disgruntled horror stories on here, that it is that much of a gamble. You have to be willing to take a chance it could go that wrongly. Although I would also argue that buying the BOGO air is far more likely to have a positive than a negative outcome and I've seen positive stories on here too.

[RocketMan275]

13 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Ah, then you probably don't want to use their air. 😉 I suspect that agent has had an earful from enough disgruntled passengers that it's best to respond that way. I think it's good you were upfront about being picky, it likely saved you and the agent a lot of time. What some people do, and I admit it's a pet peeve of mine (although it doesn't apply to you), is to say on the one hand that they're picky, then say BOGO air isn't for them, and then make sweeping, generalized statements with no proof like "no one should get this, it isn't worth it." Now that is making the assumption that everyone else is as picky as the speaker is. That is not proven, and it's dishonest to then say it's useless for everyone.

I've found that being upfront is the best policy.  It saves the agents time and it saves mine.  When I call, I usually have a specific question in mind.  I try to be as open and as upfront as possilbe to ensure the agent is answering my specific question.  I'm almost totally immune to sales pitches.  

I took my first business flight in 1973.  I've spent too much time flying in the cheap seats and too much time waiting in airports for connections.  I don't have to do that anymore.  

I'm sure you're correct in believing that BOGO airfares work well much more often than is reported here.  The chances are those fares will work out well and the majority are quite happy with them.   It just isn't worth it to me to take a chance.  Air travel is dicey enough as it is.  I'd just rather not take the chance.

Edited May 5, 2023 by RocketMan275

[DCGuy64]

1 minute ago, carohs said:

1st, sorry to hijack your thread @Liz.m.m. Please keep us posted if there's any updates.

 

I would argue, given the number of disgruntled horror stories on here, that it is that much of a gamble. You have to be willing to take a chance it could go that wrongly. Although I would also argue that buying the BOGO air is far more likely to have a positive than a negative outcome and I've seen positive stories on here too.

I disagree. It's a pretty well established fact in the business world that the majority of satisfied customers don't respond to surveys or write reviews. They're almost universally outnumbered by the dissatisfied. Think of it this way: 4,000 passengers on one sailing, if even 1% of them do a review at all, that's 40 people. If only 10 of them used a buy one, get one air deal and are unhappy, someone could say the entire ship had a bad experience with it. And even then, there are plenty of people who book their own flights (sometimes at a higher cost) and are still in danger of being delayed or missing their connections (that almost happened to us on RC and we booked independently). You're right that there are a lot of horror stories on here, but there are also a lot of cruisers who've never even HEARD of Cruise Critic in the first place. In short, those reviews are unrepresentative and shouldn't be relied on as though they were.

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I've found that being upfront is the best policy.  It saves the agents time and it saves mine.  When I call, I usually have a specific question in mind.  I try to be as open and as upfront as possilbe to ensure the agent is answering my specific question.  I'm almost totally immune to sales pitches.  

I took my first business flight in 1973.  I've spent too much time flying in the cheap seats and too much time waiting in airports for connections.  I don't have to do that anymore.  

You're definitely not the target audience for that offer, then. I suspect that NCL is banking on people saying "Oh, I can get my flights through the cruise line, too? One stop shopping, sign me up!"

[RocketMan275]

7 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

You're definitely not the target audience for that offer, then. I suspect that NCL is banking on people saying "Oh, I can get my flights through the cruise line, too? One stop shopping, sign me up!"

I suspect you're correct.  The NCL flights appeal to those who don't have much experience in travel and to those who are looking for the cheapest possible flights.   Another thing.  If I book my own flights, I have only myself to blame.  

 

BTW, if there were ever a thread about horror stories of air travel, I've got a few.  (And, then, the volcano erupted is my favorite.)

Edited May 5, 2023 by RocketMan275