Port of Livorno regulations - Only beer and wine allowed????

[Fairline93]

On 5/6/2023 at 1:58 PM, gregluk said:

This doesn't look good 😞.

But based on that one above, it look's like if you have the free at sea drinks package you are still allowed all your drinks?

 

Don't understand, if you have left and you are at sea surely they can serve liquor ? :S

From what I found, in Civi you are ok if you have the drinks package, but in Livorno you can only have wine or beer.  All with an extra port tax, regardless of whether you have the drinks package 🙄

[cameronp12]

FYI - just checked as we have some friends currently in the Med on a Princess cruise. We cruised with them in Spain the last 2 weeks on Celebrity and then they went on another 2 week Princess cruise after. Their Princess cruise visits Livorno on Friday 5/12, so I will definitively check with them on whether or not Princess is using the same “rule” to limit drinks while in port. 
 

Will be an interesting comparison!!

[isopalms]

I’m on the Norwegian Edge and we left Livorno a couple of hours ago. All aboard was at 6:30 pm but I’m not sure what time we actually left. I noticed at 8:30 that liquor is once again being served. We are cruising south towards Civitavecchia with the coast in sight, but I’m not sure our distance from land. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by isopalms

[ggTexasGal]

2 minutes ago, isopalms said:

I’m on the Norwegian Edge and we left Livorno a couple of hours ago. All aboard was at 6:30 pm but I’m not sure what time we actually left. I noticed at 8:30 that liquor is once again being served. We are cruising south towards Civitavecchia with the coast in sight, but I’m not sure our distance from land. 

NCL does not have "Edge" amongst their ships!😉

[nclsuncruiser]

22 hours ago, RD64 said:

Italy’s game - their rules - not for us to question what the big deal is. But certainly at the end of the day - the big deal is related to $$$$$.

Why is it not for people that purchased beverage packages that might drink spirits to have the temerity to question "what the big deal is"??

6 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Why? Because the cruise line has to obey local laws and regulations, that's why. This is really no different than when someone purchases a cruise that sails from, say, Vietnam to Spain and stops in Saudi Arabia along the way. No sales of liquor AT ALL in some countries due to their laws. Essentially, you're blaming NCL for following the law in Livorno, and that isn't right. 

 

 

It's entirely different.  Everyone knows there may be issues in Saudi Arabia.  With this Livorno rule, which doesn't seem to have existed a couple of months ago, it just gets introduced, and may impact on how you use your paid for package.  By your logic, if every stop arbitrarily decided to ban spirits, NCL would have no obligations to compensate purchasers of the package in any way.  That would not be true.

 

5 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I've been to Livorno, with my friends from Rome. I'm quite aware of where it is, thank you. I checked Google Maps and there are plenty of bars near the port.

 

I would agree with luv2kroooz - where are these bars near the port - you need a shuttle out of Livorno port.

 

5 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

At any rate, I may enjoy my beverage package, but somehow I think being told I can "only" have beer and wine at one port isn't something that's going to ruin my vacation.

Lucky you.  Tell that to the people that don't drink wine or beer, but drink spirits.  It's not all about you, you know (but perhaps you don't!)

 

3 hours ago, gregluk said:

This is the official comms from Norwegian about this that I got from them.

 

Our Company is not able to foresee in advance what will be the restrictions prior to sail and arrive in a specific port. All port authorities may apply some local rule anytime, prior or during the cruise for all worldwide cruise lines. Even if we understand that this will impact our guests, we are obliged to follow any local rules and we do hope our valued guests can understand Company position in our matter. Therefore, I am sorry but this cannot be checked as 'urgent verification' since the concerned policy can be only checked once arrived at the port and once the ship is docked.

That "official" comms from Norwegian is fine, but it doesn't deal with liability towards customers in the event of something preventing them providing the service that has been paid for.  By above logic, if all ports banned all alcohol during a cruise, NCL would simply follow the rule (yes, they would have to) and have no liability as a result.  Rubbish!!!

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Thanks for this, good to see an official statement from NCL. FYI this is precisely what I thought, i.e. there's no way a cruise line can predict every eventuality in advance. Anything you purchase or book in advance is subject to change.

Well done.  Your view is "precisely" what NCL say in an attempt to get out of an argument.  While one port making these arbitrary rules might not lead to a "win" in a claim towards compensation, if it became the norm, the cruiseline would have to make amends.  Not being "able to foresee in advance what will be the restrictions prior to sail and arrive in a specific port" would not allow NCL to escape obligations.  If a port said you couldn't land, they'd have to refund excursion monies.

 

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

Good luck to anybody planning to sue NCL over this, they have an army of lawyers and I promise you they're already covered for this kind of thing in the T&C's. This will blow over by next week and people will forget about it, mark my words. Oh, here's what I found:

https://www.ncl.com/terms/unlimited-open-bar-package

One of the items on this states the following:

• No substitute for package if guest cannot consume all beverages included.

 

If I were NCL, I'd say "you are entitled to beer and wine in Livorno, but not spirits, but there are no substitutes." It also says other terms and conditions apply. They're covered, trust me. (I'd be ticked off if I were on this cruise, but I'd forget about taking any legal action)

 

 That exclusion wording is a bit open to interpretation, possibly meaning if they run out of spirits you can't substitute for....for what, I don't know, it doesn't say "No REFUND of package if guest cannot...".  Again, if hypothetically, every port in Europe stopped sales of all alcohol on board, it's quite clear they couldn't rely on such an exclusion, which would likely fail in any court.  Indeed,  EU law is clear that contract terms that are unfair have no legal or binding force on consumers, and it's likely NCL would fail to defend based on such an exclusion.

 

But once you're happy with beer and wine, the rest of us should be too.  Clearly.

[Fairline93]

On 5/9/2023 at 2:18 PM, DCGuy64 said:

Beer and wine aren't alcohol? 😉 JK. (I know, you don't drink them)

Well, while not ideal, you *could* get off the ship and have your tipple at a local bar. AFAIK they're not saying liquor sales IN Livorno are prohibited, only that NCL won't serve hard liquor that day. So if you're really into getting your drink on, leave the ship and shop local. 🙂

I think the main issue is, why should we have to get off the ship and pay for alcohol (we don't drink wine/beer) that we ALREADY paid extra for, especially getting the premium plus package in order to get the drinks we do like.  It seems only fair in this instance to get some sort of a credit (I know, lots of luck) as it appears this is ONLY happening with NCL.  I would love to know otherwise...

[gregluk]

59 minutes ago, isopalms said:

I’m on the Norwegian Edge and we left Livorno a couple of hours ago. All aboard was at 6:30 pm but I’m not sure what time we actually left. I noticed at 8:30 that liquor is once again being served. We are cruising south towards Civitavecchia with the coast in sight, but I’m not sure our distance from land. 

Do you know what the rules will be for civitavecchia yet? Same as someone else had posted already?

 

Glad liquor was allowed to be served again though

[isopalms]

Good news…alcohol was being served this morning on the ship while docked in Civitavecchia. Bad news…disembarkation was once again disorganized with long lines and no information, like in Livorno, and like embarkation in Barcelona. Tenders in Cannes were significantly delayed as well (3 hours I believe). Hoping the process is improved for the next cruisers. I chose the 4-night cruise option and disembarked at Civitavecchia. Happy to not have 5 more days on the ship as it heads back to Barcelona, but was still friendly to other passengers and crew, unlike a lot of guests. Someone on our cruise said he’d been on 15 NCL cruises and this was the most disorganized one yet. I typically cruise RC and was disappointed with NCL this week, but reminded myself that I paid 50% of what RC would have cost. Also, this is the first cruise where I never saw anyone tipping. My included gratuity for the drink package and the specialty dining was not very much so I made sure to tip cash for drinks and meals, but other passengers were complaining about being charged gratuity at all, so I feel many had their gratuity removed. Just my perspective and hope it helps others adjust their expectations for upcoming cruises. 

[gregluk]

21 minutes ago, isopalms said:

Good news…alcohol was being served this morning on the ship while docked in Civitavecchia. Bad news…disembarkation was once again disorganized with long lines and no information, like in Livorno, and like embarkation in Barcelona. Tenders in Cannes were significantly delayed as well (3 hours I believe). Hoping the process is improved for the next cruisers. I chose the 4-night cruise option and disembarked at Civitavecchia. Happy to not have 5 more days on the ship as it heads back to Barcelona, but was still friendly to other passengers and crew, unlike a lot of guests. Someone on our cruise said he’d been on 15 NCL cruises and this was the most disorganized one yet. I typically cruise RC and was disappointed with NCL this week, but reminded myself that I paid 50% of what RC would have cost. Also, this is the first cruise where I never saw anyone tipping. My included gratuity for the drink package and the specialty dining was not very much so I made sure to tip cash for drinks and meals, but other passengers were complaining about being charged gratuity at all, so I feel many had their gratuity removed. Just my perspective and hope it helps others adjust their expectations for upcoming cruises. 

That's good all alcohol was allowed. Hopefully the organisation sorts out for some of the other stuff

[roxette]

In Spain and spanish waters you also need to pay taxes when dining, also on the dining package. It can add up quite a bit since the taxes are based on the a la carte menu prices.  

 

A few cocktails, maybe a bottle of wine and four dishes in Le Bistro...

 

Weird thing is that some bartenders told us that is was only a couple of cents per drink. That was not really true all the times. 

 

My bill ended up at around $250 in spanish taxes, three persons, premium plus package. Three Spanish ports. 

 

In some bars the staff anounced that we had left Spanish waters, and no more taxes. People were cheering and running to the bars. 

[hawkeyetlse]

4 hours ago, roxette said:

In Spain and spanish waters you also need to pay taxes when dining, also on the dining package. It can add up quite a bit since the taxes are based on the a la carte menu prices.  

 

A few cocktails, maybe a bottle of wine and four dishes in Le Bistro...

In my experience, although they said dining would also be taxed, I did a couple of specialty meals in Spanish waters (using dining package, vouchers, whatever) and the food was not taxed. Only the drinks. Maybe people who actually paid à la carte or ordered upcharge items had additional tax added, I don't know. (Or it could be that by the time they rang up our food bill, we were out of Spanish waters, whereas the drinks were charged earlier. If you were actually charged tax on food, I would be interested to hear about it.)

Edited May 11, 2023 by hawkeyetlse

[Krydstosser]

On 5/9/2023 at 9:34 PM, bluesea777 said:

Mind boggling when you say you wouldn't upgrade tour booze package, don't you realize the booze pkg Plus include the premium wines that you are allowed to drink while ported in Livorno!

 

 

I prefer Cocktails with premium brands spirits, what I also purchased. And you can't do that with the Livorno restrictions. Thats our last evening before the debarkation in Civitavecchia. 

[Mommapadraig]

1 hour ago, Krydstosser said:

I prefer Cocktails with premium brands spirits, what I also purchased. And you can't do that with the Livorno restrictions. Thats our last evening before the debarkation in Civitavecchia. 

I’m with you. I do not drink wine or beer. I strongly dislike the taste of beer and wine gives me heartburn. Only cocktails. Usually vodka . I’m surprised so many people do not understand this.

[cameronp12]

Coming back on this thread...

 

Like I mentioned earlier, we have friends that are currently on Princess in Livorno today. Official word from them is no limitations on type of alcohol served in port (all spirits available with no extra taxes, etc.). They do have the drink package, so can't speak to those that do not.

 

However, I think based on this, we can likely conclude this issue is NCL-specific. Probably something about an extra that they don't want to pay that other cruise lines are willing to as to not inconvenience their customers.

 

Seems like NCL is cheapening out here and blaming it on regulations.

[Fairline93]

On 5/10/2023 at 4:06 PM, gregluk said:

Do you know what the rules will be for civitavecchia yet? Same as someone else had posted already?

 

Glad liquor was allowed to be served again though

Citiavecchia, from reports, is no alcohol at all unless you have the drink package.

[podgeandrodge]

See article on Cruisemummy posted in the "Uk no alchol at ports" thread.

 

 

https://www.cruisemummy.co.uk/cruise-ships-banning-alcohol-in-ports/

 

 

[Krydstosser]

I have a cruise with Getaway in june coming up (3th NCL Cruise) and I am so disappointed with NCL. This outrageous Non-serving in Southampton and now this "Only Beer & Wine when in port" in Livorno and other ports. If they had told me before I bought my Cruise fair enough but this sudden sign at the bar is not okay. I tried to push other people on Facebook to complain but they called me a troublemaker and alcoholic and so on. Now I see what happens on my cruise, if they do this "Only Beer and wine" Policy i am done with NCL. I have tried almost all (Main stream) Cruise lines and all are good on their own way. I chosed  NCL this time because of the FAS and upgraded to Plus package, but if they not deliver and lie to me I will go to another Cruise line that treat me with decency and respect. I have recommended 3 other couples to Cruise with NCL and they did but I will not recommend NCL anymore. 

 

[altriperin]

We are on the Epic and there was only beer and wine in Livorno for to days.

And we have to pay an additional tax of 10% for all drinks😤. We booked this cruise because of the Beverage Package and now they charge us for every drink.

This will be our last cruise with NCL

 

 

[CruiseMH]

7 minutes ago, altriperin said:

We booked this cruise because of the Beverage Package and now they charge us for every drink.

 

 

 

They just charge you the local taxes.

Same like when consuming in US ports.

Usually this doesn`t matter cause the ship leaves the port in the evening and so is already in international waters when most of the drinks are consumed.

But if they are in port overnight this is nothing unusual that local taxes will be on top.

The only interesting question is whether this was communicated directly with your booking confirmation.

I guess not.

 

[altriperin]

They charge us all the time. In port and on sea. We left Naples yesterday and today is a sea day. Tomorrow we will arrive in Palma de Mallorca. This aren't local taxes. We have seven ports in three different countries. 

It wasn't communicated before the cruise. 

[cruiseny4life]

1 hour ago, altriperin said:

We are on the Epic and there was only beer and wine in Livorno for to days.

And we have to pay an additional tax of 10% for all drinks😤. We booked this cruise because of the Beverage Package and now they charge us for every drink.

This will be our last cruise with NCL

 

 

Did you really book the cruise solely for the beverage package? If so, ok...but (to me) it seems an odd reason to book a cruise, albeit I am not one who consumes more than three to five alcoholic beverages per day on a cruise (if that many). 

[ollienbertsmum]

13 minutes ago, altriperin said:

It wasn't communicated before the cruise. 

 

And this is what is important.  If you know beforehand then there is little you can say.  It is when NCL either announce sudden alcohol restrictions or make charges that had not been flagged before the cruise, passengers are right to feel annoyed. 

[Fairline93]

1 hour ago, cruiseny4life said:

Did you really book the cruise solely for the beverage package? If so, ok...but (to me) it seems an odd reason to book a cruise, albeit I am not one who consumes more than three to five alcoholic beverages per day on a cruise (if that many). 

Again…Not. The. Point.  A service was advertised, paid for, and only partially delivered with no advance notice or refund. Whether this applies to alcohol or some other paid-for item is irrelevant. It constitutes fraud, as another cruiser said. This is compounded but the outright lies NCL is telling instead of admitting they made the error of not paying the local fees giving them permission to serve alcohol while in local ports.

[cruiseny4life]

8 minutes ago, Fairline93 said:

Again…Not. The. Point.  A service was advertised, paid for, and only partially delivered with no advance notice or refund. Whether this applies to alcohol or some other paid-for item is irrelevant. It constitutes fraud, as another cruiser said. This is compounded but the outright lies NCL is telling instead of admitting they made the error of not paying the local fees giving them permission to serve alcohol while in local ports.

Hey...I'm with you! This situation, and others, is making me think I'll be booking my last cruise on NCL for quite some time (FCC and Cruise Next to burn still). It's not the alcohol, it's the principles...as in The. Point. 

 

I asked if the person booked the cruise solely for the drink package as it seems an interesting way to decide on booking a cruise. But hey, everyone makes decisions differently. 

[schmoopie17]

26 minutes ago, Fairline93 said:

Again…Not. The. Point.  A service was advertised, paid for, and only partially delivered with no advance notice or refund. Whether this applies to alcohol or some other paid-for item is irrelevant. It constitutes fraud, as another cruiser said. This is compounded but the outright lies NCL is telling instead of admitting they made the error of not paying the local fees giving them permission to serve alcohol while in local ports.

This is a similar situation where NCL Customer "Service" assured us prior to our January Prima cruise that our reservation satisfied all of the requirements for the six free cartons of water. In fact, the rep  "Guaranteed" (her word) that the water would be waiting for us in our cabin. Guess what...no water at boarding...or ever. After standing in line for 25 minutes at the onboard "service" desk, once we got to the front of the line we were flatly told "NO", we would not be getting the water. I elevated it to a Supervisor, who also flatly told us that we didn't qualify for free bottled water. (Well, no kidding...we were promised the CARTONS, not the bottles). In any case, we got no water...in any container...and they acted like WE were the ones lying.

 

Yes, it's only water...but it's the principle and the fact they they didn't hold up their end of the bargain and made us out to feel like the bad guys.

Edited May 22, 2023 by schmoopie17