Why haven't daily gratuities gone down?

[PWP-001]

3 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

But there in lies the rub, cutbacks + increased pricing creates a problem. How to retain loyal customers who notice the cutbacks and are questioning the value proposition while at the same time attracting new customers

 

 

 

Loyalists can notice and complain, but how many are leaving?  I guess they'll continue to dial it down and squeeze.  If a few leave, there are new passengers that are still attracted.  However there will be that Tipping Point where enough is enough and cuts do more harm than enhance profit.

 

Will the housekeeping service reduction without a decrease in DSC be the point?  Maybe not. 

[topnole]

8 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

But there in lies the rub, cutbacks + increased pricing creates a problem. How to retain loyal customers who notice the cutbacks and are questioning the value proposition while at the same time attracting new customers

 

 

You nailed the key factor.  The value proposition.   And that is all relative (to competitors and substitutes).  Not sure how it plays out long run, but for now it appears more than enough still find value in cruising.  So perhaps a new equilibrium and product standard is being created? Maybe not? We’ll see.  

[UNCFanatik]

1 minute ago, PWP-001 said:

 

Loyalists can notice and complain, but how many are leaving?  I guess they'll continue to dial it down and squeeze.  If a few leave, there are new passengers that are still attracted.  However there will be that Tipping Point where enough is enough and cuts do more harm than enhance profit.

 

Will the housekeeping service reduction without a decrease in DSC be the point?  Maybe not. 

 

I agree. I liken it to Disney where I think there will be a tipping point because of how many cutbacks were made at the same time charging for things that were once free(fastpass). I think Disneys bubble is going to burst because they are pricing themselves out of the market for much of the desired demographic

 

I think we have already seen some Royal loyalist start to explore other cruising options as more competition is coming on line and their competitors rolling out their new ships. But time will tell how all this plays out because as you pointed out, the cruise lines have a huge debt issue that has to be addressed and cut backs/price increases are an obvious first place to start

[Mikamarii]

People like to tell themselves they tip based on service but a quick google search of studies shows that in tipping, service can have very little to do with it.

 

Go over to the Australian boards and pose the question of how much you should tip while there. The whole notion of tipping is absurd. Including it in the fare wont change a thing. Book any ‘all inclusive’ in Mexico and each one will say “gratuities included’. 

[UNCFanatik]

Just now, Mikamarii said:

People like to tell themselves they tip based on service but a quick google search of studies shows that in tipping, service can have very little to do with it.

 

Go over to the Australian boards and pose the question of how much you should tip while there. The whole notion of tipping is absurd. Including it in the fare wont change a thing. Book any ‘all inclusive’ in Mexico and each one will say “gratuities included’. 

 

Yes, and Americans tipping in countries with non-tipping cultures creates an issue

[PWP-001]

4 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

well it is not in the fare, otherwise it would be increased since the culture is to tip for it. I will say it again, i hope they dont allow it to be removed and those who hate tipping can still see it and be mad. 

There are certain implied services inherent in the fare:  housekeeping is one.  So is running water in room and electricity.

 

What's NOT specifically written in the contract associated with the fare is the extent or frequency of that housekeeping service.  For decades that standard has been daily service, but the majors have decided to shake that up.

 

There WAS a financial investment in the initiation of the once a day service.  No doubt numerous meetings and retraining with the room stewards.  It seemed that my cabin steward this weekend was TRAINED on a SPEECH he delivered to explain the new policy.  Online videos were created for guest services and there were meetings conducted by housekeeping directed at guest services, helping them understand the change so they could better react to guests who confront them about the policy change.

 

And as far as I know, as far back in time as when the DSC was instituted, guests could request the removal without question or hassle.  Who created that policy?  The cruise lines ... and it's been pretty standard practice across the lines.  Could they alter course and make DSC mandatory?  Of course.  Why haven't they?  Probably because it's just not worth the trouble.  They are NOT going to let their panties get all twisted over a financially immaterial issue:  don't sweat the small stuff.

 

 

[PWP-001]

19 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

well it is not in the fare, otherwise it would be increased since the culture is to tip for it. I will say it again, i hope they dont allow it to be removed and those who hate tipping can still see it and be mad. 

Hey!  Here's an idea since you seem more impassioned about those who remove the DSC than Royal appears to be....

 

Similar to RoyalUP, contract with RCI.  With today's technology it should be easy for a guest services representative to ask the guest who requests the DSC to please step into a convenient small office and sit at a desk where they are video conferenced directly with you.  Then you can berate them, tell them what low-life's they are... and say anything else you want.... all in an attempt to get them to change their mind.  For every DSC you passionately preserve, Royal will pay you a cut while retaining the balance.  It's a win-win situation.   Royal makes money.  And you make a few coins while directing your feelings towards and audience where it can make a difference, rather than here where it's the same old routine.

[goldfish65]

Maybe Royal doesn’t mind some exodus of customers. In my workplace, the sharp increase in our prices post-covid has caused the very cost-conscious public to go elsewhere, and those guests have been replaced by people who are spending considerably more, we are busier than ever. 

[PWP-001]

15 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

Yes, and Americans tipping in countries with non-tipping cultures creates an issue

I agree 100%.  I witnessed two tourists from the USA leave a 10 pound note in London as a tip for two beers.  After they walked away the bartender took the tip and said:  "Stupid Americans!"

[Liljo22]

3 minutes ago, Mikamarii said:

People like to tell themselves they tip based on service but a quick google search of studies shows that in tipping, service can have very little to do with it.

 

Go over to the Australian boards and pose the question of how much you should tip while there. The whole notion of tipping is absurd. Including it in the fare wont change a thing. Book any ‘all inclusive’ in Mexico and each one will say “gratuities included’. 

Tipping is almost exclusively an American thing.  Restaurant owners are allowed to pay as little $2.13 an hour to an employee that receives tips so its on the customer to tip the worker a livable wage.  Then counter workers started to put tip jars out asking for tips even thought they were not included in the tipped minimum wage.  Now every POS system asks if you want to leave a tip.  You could avoid the tip jar but now you are consciously telling the employee that you are not tipping them if you don't add a tip.

 

 

[crazyank]

52 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

Tipping should ALWAYS be optional and not mandatory

Absolutely!

[kirtihk]

18 hours ago, scooter6251 said:

If you have a problem with gratuities to the people that work so hard to make your cruise so enjoyable, maybe you should consider camping instead of cruising. Most people tip beyond the required amounts.

This comment is irrelevant (regardless of whether it seems right) to the topic of this thread.  It doesn't discuss a reduction of an extent of gratuities for the same volume of service; it's about a level of "donation" to a crew for a lesser provision.

[kirtihk]

18 hours ago, sabrefan15 said:

Gratuities did go up, from 14.50 per day to 16.00.

actually, a lot more - it is $20 for up to Club balcony Suite (it's $800 for a 10-night cruise for a family of 4 - an inside cabin cruise fare might be for such an amount per person) and $25 for other suites on NCL (it was officially increased on January 1 for our August cruise).

Edited May 8, 2023 by kirtihk

[topnole]

33 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

I agree 100%.  I witnessed two tourists from the USA leave a 10 pound note in London as a tip for two beers.  After they walked away the bartender took the tip and said:  "Stupid Americans!"

The bartender would’ve said that either way.  That is how they view Americans, but like almost every culture, they are quite ethnocentric too.  

[cello56]

If the DSC was rolled into the cost of the cruise, how long do you think it would take for the white envelopes to show up at the end of the cruise just in case you wanted to give additional tips? 

[topnole]

1 hour ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

I agree. I liken it to Disney where I think there will be a tipping point because of how many cutbacks were made at the same time charging for things that were once free(fastpass). I think Disneys bubble is going to burst because they are pricing themselves out of the market for much of the desired demographic

 

I think we have already seen some Royal loyalist start to explore other cruising options as more competition is coming on line and their competitors rolling out their new ships. But time will tell how all this plays out because as you pointed out, the cruise lines have a huge debt issue that has to be addressed and cut backs/price increases are an obvious first place to start

Doubtful Disney theme parks have issues filling up.  The global population continues to grow yet park capacity remains small.  With billions of folks in the world, and an every growing affluent population in some countries, I’d hazard Disney could double prices and still be just fine.   Not arguing that would be socially responsible given their early mission/vision for opening Disneyland and Disney World, but there are a ton of folks willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money on things like Disney.  Average Americans were priced out long ago without having to spend what they really don’t have.  Yet they also line up to go.  

Edited May 8, 2023 by topnole

[jencruzin]

It's clearly understood that all the cruise lines have probably increased gratuities, but this is just one of the reasons we're moving on after this voyage. We will take the benefits from becoming Diamond on this one cruise, it's irony but we're saying goodbye to RCL after this one next month. Other reasons include poor entertainment provisions, loss of food quality onboard, and the general nickel and diming going on. Example, there was a time when north star on Anthem was free, now they charge $20 each! Goodbye, Royal!

[lovesthebeach2]

5 minutes ago, topnole said:

Doubtful Disney theme parks have issues filling up.  The global population continues to grow yet park capacity remains small.  With billions of folks in the world, and an every growing affluent population in some countries, I’d hazard Disney could double prices and still be just fine.   Not arguing that would be socially responsible given their early mission/vision for opening Disneyland and Disney World, but there are a ton of folks willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money on things like Disney.  Average Americans were priced out long ago without having to spend what they really don’t have.  Yet they also line up to go.  

No matter how much complaining I see on all the Disney groups I read -and believe me there’s lots of complaining -  the parks are still ridiculously packed and people are spending crazy monies. And their restaurants are still packed too.

[topnole]

1 minute ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

No matter how much complaining I see on all the Disney groups I read -and believe me there’s lots of complaining -  the parks are still ridiculously packed and people are spending crazy monies. And their restaurants are still packed too.

Yep.  Reminds me of my last few Royal cruises.  Lots of complaints here, but they are all full.  
 

A lot of people complain about car prices too.  I still see tons of new nearly $100 k SUVs all over.  
 

Things will change if enough people stop spending.  Until then, they won’t. Simple as that and true for any industry.  
 

 

[lovesthebeach2]

1 minute ago, jencruzin said:

It's clearly understood that all the cruise lines have probably increased gratuities, but this is just one of the reasons we're moving on after this voyage. We will take the benefits from becoming Diamond on this one cruise, it's irony but we're saying goodbye to RCL after this one next month. Other reasons include poor entertainment provisions, loss of food quality onboard, and the general nickel and diming going on. Example, there was a time when north star on Anthem was free, now they charge $20 each! Goodbye, Royal!

I see your point, but in their defense, it’s not just Royal. For example, Disney decided to take away the free fastpass option for attractions, and now charge what I last heard was $35 per day, per person for Genie +. And of course that’s over and above the ridiculous ticket price just to get in the park.  And a bottle of water like over 4.00 I think.And extra for lightning lane attractions. And people are saying they can’t even get on rides AFTER they paid the extra $$. 
It’s not just Royal.

[lovesthebeach2]

1 minute ago, topnole said:

Yep.  Reminds me of my last few Royal cruises.  Lots of complaints here, but they are all full.  
 

A lot of people complain about car prices too.  I still see tons of new nearly $100 k SUVs all over.  
 

Things will change if enough people stop spending.  Until then, they won’t. Simple as that and true for any industry.  
 

 

Exactly, but I don’t see that happening any time soon. So we just suck it up and open our wallets.

🤷🏼‍♀️

[topnole]

6 minutes ago, jencruzin said:

It's clearly understood that all the cruise lines have probably increased gratuities, but this is just one of the reasons we're moving on after this voyage. We will take the benefits from becoming Diamond on this one cruise, it's irony but we're saying goodbye to RCL after this one next month. Other reasons include poor entertainment provisions, loss of food quality onboard, and the general nickel and diming going on. Example, there was a time when north star on Anthem was free, now they charge $20 each! Goodbye, Royal!

The problem is I still think cruising can be much cheaper than other forms of vacation.  Just a rental car for my family this summer in the mid west was going to be a $1400 for a week. Add lodging and it is pushing 4K.   That is cost without us getting there (air) or eating for a week.  Long story short, our prior cruises were cheaper than an alternative type of vacation that is more difficult and stressful travel.  So it is all relative to other options.   I understand why folks may change directions, but the alternatives have changed a lot too.  

[jencruzin]

5 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

I see your point, but in their defense, it’s not just Royal. For example, Disney decided to take away the free fastpass option for attractions, and now charge what I last heard was $35 per day, per person for Genie +. And of course that’s over and above the ridiculous ticket price just to get in the park.  And a bottle of water like over 4.00 I think.And extra for lightning lane attractions. And people are saying they can’t even get on rides AFTER they paid the extra $$. 
It’s not just Royal.

Our main reason for moving - Besides ONE time we strayed off to do a Carnival cruise (never again) we've been with Royal ever since and nothing else. Overall, time for a change. I know, Celebrity is part of Royal, but we'll give that one a go, already eyeing the idea of going Sky Suite and inclusive drink package.

[topnole]

5 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Exactly, but I don’t see that happening any time soon. So we just suck it up and open our wallets.

🤷🏼‍♀️

Maybe late this year?  A late year recession is predicted in a lot of economist’s models.  But only time will tell if that happens.  Sadly, the cruise lines (debt laden) aren’t well positioned to handle a deep recession.  Gonna be an interesting 5-10 years for them.  

[Liljo22]

15 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

No matter how much complaining I see on all the Disney groups I read -and believe me there’s lots of complaining -  the parks are still ridiculously packed and people are spending crazy monies. And their restaurants are still packed too.

That's because much like the people complaining on this board, the people complaining about Disney make up a small minority of people actually vacationing.  The majority are people are ones that either are new and didn't even know there was a change or haven't been enough to really worry if something is gone.  

 

I know several families that have taken their first cruise this year and they all came back raving about how much fun they had.  They don't know that there was once twice a day cleaning or that their favorite dish is no longer on the menu.