Wonky Posted May 9, 2023 #1 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Don’t know if this is new news but Mr Ludlow just announced in a video tweeted that Aurora and Arcadia will both have major refits in the next two years. I know these ships are very popular with cruise critickers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molecrochip Posted May 9, 2023 #2 Share Posted May 9, 2023 It was announced about 6 weeks ago. No major details yet as far as I’m aware. This is underpinned by Josh W’s comments that there is currently no major new ship building plan beyond 2026. Fleet she will get older. I think it’s fair to say that 2025-2030 will be light on new ships. This supports debt pay-down as they are not paying off more new ships. Obvious caveat: this is as off now. They may refurbish a ship then get an offer that’s too good to be true and sell it. Always a risk. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky Posted May 9, 2023 Author #3 Share Posted May 9, 2023 I guess as the orders dry up there is potential for a few bargains at the shipyards too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky Posted May 9, 2023 Author #4 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Spend $200m and get a feee climbing wall😂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLad60 Posted May 9, 2023 #5 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, molecrochip said: It was announced about 6 weeks ago. No major details yet as far as I’m aware. This is underpinned by Josh W’s comments that there is currently no major new ship building plan beyond 2026. Fleet she will get older. I think it’s fair to say that 2025-2030 will be light on new ships. This supports debt pay-down as they are not paying off more new ships. Obvious caveat: this is as off now. They may refurbish a ship then get an offer that’s too good to be true and sell it. Always a risk. That's what the cynic in me is thinking - they might be sprucing them up to make them more attractive to potential buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare david63 Posted May 9, 2023 #6 Share Posted May 9, 2023 18 minutes ago, LondonLad60 said: to make them more attractive to potential buyers. Or for transferring to other Carnival brands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molecrochip Posted May 9, 2023 #7 Share Posted May 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, david63 said: Or for transferring to other Carnival brands Not quite sure which brands you think have a need for these ships. Aida: Lots of capacity at present. CCL: lacks any funship elements. Costa: Have too many of own ship. Cunard: Queen Anne set to give massive capacity increase. HAL: have a lot of capacity / disposed of four smaller ships during pause. P&O Au: Focused on grand class for future. Princess: have 2 on order and focused on bigger ships. Seabourn: not ultra-lux styled. I think this is a positive for those who like the existing adults only ships. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare david63 Posted May 9, 2023 #8 Share Posted May 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, molecrochip said: Not quite sure which brands you think have a need for these ships. The one that came to mind was the tie up that Carnival had with China, but I don't know if that still exists. If I remember correctly isn't that where Oriana went which is a similar style of ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molecrochip Posted May 9, 2023 #9 Share Posted May 9, 2023 The China tie up was 2 Costa ships and 2 new built ships. Oriana was sold to a completely independent company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted May 9, 2023 #10 Share Posted May 9, 2023 26 minutes ago, molecrochip said: I think this is a positive for those who like the existing adults only ships. Whilst it is good news for those who like adult ships, the refurbishments announced seem to relate to mainly cosmetic changes such as furniture, soft furnishings etc. rather than structural improvements. As you said some time ago, bathrooms, for example are designed to last the life of the ship, and replacing them is really not feasible. And the bathrooms on Arcadia are already showing their age ! We were thoroughly disappointed with our cruise on Arcadia last year - so, much as we like the idea of adult cruises, we are not prepared to cruise on her again, despite the adult only benefit. Goodness knows what state Arcadia and Aurora will be like in five years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molecrochip Posted May 9, 2023 #11 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 minute ago, wowzz said: Whilst it is good news for those who like adult ships, the refurbishments announced seem to relate to mainly cosmetic changes such as furniture, soft furnishings etc. rather than structural improvements. As you said some time ago, bathrooms, for example are designed to last the life of the ship, and replacing them is really not feasible. And the bathrooms on Arcadia are already showing their age ! We were thoroughly disappointed with our cruise on Arcadia last year - so, much as we like the idea of adult cruises, we are not prepared to cruise on her again, despite the adult only benefit. Goodness knows what state Arcadia and Aurora will be like in five years time. The announcements were of new furniture now PLUS multi million pound refurbishments internally at dry dock. Those refurbishments have not been set out in detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky Posted May 9, 2023 Author #12 Share Posted May 9, 2023 He used the phrase “major refit”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted May 9, 2023 #13 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Just now, molecrochip said: The announcements were of new furniture now PLUS multi million pound refurbishments internally at dry dock. Those refurbishments have not been set out in detail. Hopefully then we will get new bathrooms, new interior cabin walls, and a new air conditioning system that actually works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippa04 Posted May 9, 2023 #14 Share Posted May 9, 2023 The fact that the details of the refurbishment haven't been specified when it's obvious to a blind man and his dog what's needed leads the cynic in me to suggest that it's just public areas that will be tarted up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecttr Posted May 9, 2023 #15 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 hours ago, molecrochip said: The China tie up was 2 Costa ships and 2 new built ships. Oriana was sold to a completely independent company. Was one of those ships Costa Venezia? It is currently on refit in Cadiz with the yellow funnel but now listed as Carnival Venezia on Marine Traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molecrochip Posted May 9, 2023 #16 Share Posted May 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, davecttr said: Was one of those ships Costa Venezia? It is currently on refit in Cadiz with the yellow funnel but now listed as Carnival Venezia on Marine Traffic. No Venezia together with Firenze are moving to Carnival together with Luminosa. The ships transferred to China are Costa Atlantica and Costa Mediterrania. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Selbourne Posted May 9, 2023 #17 Share Posted May 9, 2023 I think the term “multi £ million” when it comes to refits can imply something far more than it is. With something the size of a cruise ship, just replacing carpets and selected soft furnishings will always run into a multi £m cost! The most recent refits were trumpeted as multi £m refits and the changes, from what I read, were purely cosmetic! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruise saint Posted May 9, 2023 #18 Share Posted May 9, 2023 8 hours ago, LondonLad60 said: That's what the cynic in me is thinking - they might be sprucing them up to make them more attractive to potential buyers. If they do sell off the smaller ships and replace them with more mega ships, I could see a major shift in the P&O customer demographic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Selbourne Posted May 9, 2023 #19 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Just now, cruise saint said: If they do sell off the smaller ships and replace them with more mega ships, I could see a major shift in the P&O customer demographic. I think that’s happening already. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecttr Posted May 9, 2023 #20 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Selbourne said: I think the term “multi £ million” when it comes to refits can imply something far more than it is. With something the size of a cruise ship, just replacing carpets and selected soft furnishings will always run into a multi £m cost! The most recent refits were trumpeted as multi £m refits and the changes, from what I read, were purely cosmetic! Do Arcadia and Aurora have shower doors? If not upgraded bathroom is needed. At £5000 plus £5000 fitting that would be £10 million for starters. For example when Celebrity Galaxy moved to TUI she had a 50 million euro upgrade including passenger cabins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted May 9, 2023 #21 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 hours ago, cruise saint said: If they do sell off the smaller ships and replace them with more mega ships, I could see a major shift in the P&O customer demographic. No more mega ships are planned for the foreseeable future. Carnival don't have the money ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted May 9, 2023 #22 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, davecttr said: Do Arcadia and Aurora have shower doors? If not upgraded bathroom is needed. At £5000 plus £5000 fitting that would be £10 million for starters. For example when Celebrity Galaxy moved to TUI she had a 50 million euro upgrade including passenger cabins Arcadia just has shower curtains. As Moley said some time ago, the bathrooms are modular units, and as such are intended to last the life of the ship. To all intents and purposes the bathrooms cannot be changed. You might be able to change the grouting, and put in a shower door, but the loo, basin and sink have to stay. The bathrooms on Arcadia are really very tired, and there is no easy or economic fix. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrierjohn Posted May 9, 2023 #23 Share Posted May 9, 2023 38 minutes ago, wowzz said: Arcadia just has shower curtains. As Moley said some time ago, the bathrooms are modular units, and as such are intended to last the life of the ship. To all intents and purposes the bathrooms cannot be changed. You might be able to change the grouting, and put in a shower door, but the loo, basin and sink have to stay. The bathrooms on Arcadia are really very tired, and there is no easy or economic fix. New toilets could be fitted, we had a brand new one on Ventura once,but of course they have to be the same design, or very similar to fit the existing plumbing. I guess new basins could be also be fitted, and we have had new shower units in the past. So a bathroom freshen up would not be impossible, and I guess wardrobes and drawer units could similarly be refreshed. But I guess we will find out in the fullness of time what this multi million pound refit really will provide, although I do remember a similar promise of large new flat screen TVs to be fitted Fleet wide at each next refit, and that was back in 2015/6 at least one refit ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted May 9, 2023 #24 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 minute ago, terrierjohn said: New toilets could be fitted, we had a brand new one on Ventura once,but of course they have to be the same design, or very similar to fit the existing plumbing. I guess new basins could be also be fitted, and we have had new shower units in the past. So a bathroom freshen up would not be impossible, and I guess wardrobes and drawer units could similarly be refreshed. But I guess we will find out in the fullness of time what this multi million pound refit really will provide, although I do remember a similar promise of large new flat screen TVs to be fitted Fleet wide at each next refit, and that was back in 2015/6 at least one refit ago I suppose anything is possible if you throw enough money at it. However, if you were P&O management, how much money would you invest on a ship with only 6 or 7 years life left ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No pager thank you Posted May 10, 2023 #25 Share Posted May 10, 2023 However much money is spent on Aurora and Arcadia, and whatever on, we can all rest assured that, according to P&O, 99.9% of customers will approve.... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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