Jim Van Fleet out at Royal, 1 down and 2 more need to go.

[123funcruiser]

2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

...

 

I don't believe Carnival or NCL have sailed into hurricanes, and they don't have a staff meteorologists. 

 

I´d say you are wrong in your believes. 

 

P&O Pacific Aria cruise liner that sailed through cyclone after leaving Brisbane is hit with lawsuit | Daily Mail Online

P&O is part of the Carnival Corp.

 

Norwegian:

"It was hell for me": Woman recalls cruise ship ride during "bomb cyclone" - CBS News

 

OK, not hurricane, but cyclone.

[Ret MP]

19 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Regardless you can't deny the "sailing full at high fares" posts, it is a reality.

 

Is it enough?  That's a horse of a different color.

Nope, can't deny the facts, that's for sure.  But, like I've said, I believe that this is a result of the pinned-up cash that some/many people saved up during the COVID shutdown.  That money will, eventually dry up and costs will begin to come down to reasonable.  Again, it's just a believe, I have nothing to back it up with, and I could be very wrong.  

[Ret MP]

8 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

True, but when your cruise is going to be affected by a hurricane, it's good to have RC putting out some guidance on what could happen with your cruise.

It doesn't take a meteorologist to do that, but there are plenty of people paranoid about cruise ship weather.

The captain of the ship has the ultimate responsibility for the safety of the ship.  He has plenty of resources at his fingertips to adjust his route to avoid weather situations.  He also has support staff back at the mother ship to alert him/her to any storms ahead of him and other potential issues (civil unrest at ports of call, for example).  But, I'd bet that he/she knows about them long before any alert.  Hell, my local TV station shows us the building of a storm off of Africa when one builds.  The Miami stations (WSVN, WPLG, WFOR, .......) do a good job of that, too.  If all else fails:  https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/?atlc  and this is interesting, too:  https://www.buoyweather.com/#2.89/17.89/-29.55/SWELL

 

10 minutes ago, notscb said:

You could say the same for many of the corporate positions. The reality is, those folks likely have had some impact on your cruise and your safety but had little to no knowledge that they were involved.

As a former Corporate Human Resources Director, I'd never argue the need for this or that Corporate position, in general.  I must add, I don't like outsourcing, not at all.  However, there are some positions that can be eliminated without any bearing on safety and if I was still an HR guy, I'd recommend the elimination of the "IN-HOUSE" weather guy, just based upon other cheaper and probably more capable options available.  Today there are just toooooooooo many resources that a captain of a cruise ship has at his fingertips.  The use of a 3rd party entity could help the captain with the finer details and interpretation of some of the more technical aspects of weather forecasting and do it cheaply.  Hell, I can get on this very laptop or my Android and see, in real-time, the seas (see link above), wind, ocean currents, jetstreams, ice packs, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, temperatures, rain, and get forecasts for all of those ..............   I don't think there is a square inch on the planet that you, me, or anyone else, can't find some sort of weather information on.  

 

This is all my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.  

[notscb]

10 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I must add, I don't like outsourcing, not at all.  However, there are some positions that can be eliminated without any bearing on safety and if I was still an HR guy, I'd recommend the elimination of the "IN-HOUSE" weather guy, just based upon other cheaper and probably more capable options available.

 

See the contradiction, though? You're not advocating for the elimination of the position because of safety in your example, you relate it to cost and administrative efficiency- as if safety is the second priority

 

The decision to eliminate the in-house weather guy is just eliminating another safety related resource the captain of the ship may have at their fingertips to outsource it to a third party or weather monitoring system (who is ultimately doing the same thing for less). I'm sure RCL has paid access to better weather monitoring than any of us have in our pockets and always has, but that shouldn't devalue the work a person is doing- it only enhances it.

 

It's one thing to say:

"The in house weather guy is an inefficient use of admin resources so we are going to eliminate it," but that's not really the narrative we have in this situation (although what is ultimately happening).

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by notscb
clarity

[Ret MP]

5 minutes ago, notscb said:

 

See the contradiction, though? You're not advocating for the elimination of the position because of safety in your example, you relate it to cost and administrative efficiency- as if safety is the second priority  No, that's not it at all.  Safety is always first and foremost and doesn't have to be 2nd, or 3rd, or....... priority.  I'm sure RCCL has enough lawyers that can draw up a contract, negotiated, and agreed to with a 3rd party that can give them exactly what they need/desire in a weather forecasting entity and not impact on safety, maybe even improve it.

 

The decision to eliminate the in-house weather guy is just eliminating another safety related resource <not if the 3rd party contract was well written the captain of the ship may have at their fingertips to outsource it to a third party or weather monitoring system (who is ultimately doing the same thing for less). I'm sure RCL has paid access to better weather monitoring than any of us have in our pockets and always has Do they need a corporate "meterologist" to sit at the helm of the weather desk at Corp?, but that shouldn't devalue the work a person is doing- it only enhances it.  BUT, I don't believe that safety and/or thoroughness will be compromised if going to a 3rd party.  And to clarify, I'm not saying or advocating that no weather related positions exist at the mother ship.  I just don't think they need a highly paid, supported, and benefited <(my assumption) celibrety <(my opinion) at the Corp., weather desk.

 

It's one thing to say:

"The in house weather guy is an inefficient use of admin resources so we are going to eliminate it," but that's not really the narrative we have in this situation (although what is ultimately happening (This is a discussion board afterall.).  Again, I don't think anything is forfeited by going to a 3rd party if done correctly.

 

I've answered each point within your post so I don't miss things I want to address.

 

I've said what I want to say.  I'm not going to turn this into a 5 or 6-page debate.  Again, this is my opinion and my opinion only.  You're welcome to yours.  I'm not a meteorologist or a lawyer.  Just an old retired Army Sergeant and a few post-Army professions, with opinions, many of them.

[JupiterTwo]

4 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

They hired Van Fleet soon after Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida called for a National Transportation Safety Board investigation after Anthem sailed right into a hurricane in 2016.

“The thing about this storm was that it was forecast for days. So why in the world would a cruise ship with thousands of passengers go sailing right into it?” Nelson said from the Senate floor Monday. “I want the (NTSB) to come up with answers very quickly and make an admonition to mariners: When the storm is brewing, you don’t go out of port.”

 

I don't believe Carnival or NCL have sailed into hurricanes, and they don't have a staff meteorologists. 

 

First, I believe that was a winter nor'easter, not a hurricane. Still, it was just as bad with videos from inside the cabins showing things tilted near 45 degrees.

 

Add to that the situation with Hurricane Harvey at Galveston in 2017 and the Liberty of the Seas. Carnival had already diverted their ships to New Orleans but Royal insisted they were still going to Galveston and told the next cruise passengers they either had to show up or lose their cruise fares. Royal essentially told their customers to fly into a hurricane warning or lose thousands of dollars.

 

I remember posting on Cruise Critic at the time (I live north of Houston) that there was no way the dockworkers were coming to work when they had their own homes to board up (if they didn't already evacuate ahead of the storm), let alone terminal agents, airport taxis, etc. Yet, Royal insisted they had a window to turn the ship around!

 

Good sense finally prevailed and Royal did cancelled the next cruise and diverted the Liberty away from Galveston, but there were people who began their flights to Houston by this point.

 

Two bad weather-related calls by Royal.

[Kathscof]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

However, there are some positions that can be eliminated without any bearing on safety and if I was still an HR guy, I'd recommend the elimination of the "IN-HOUSE" weather guy, just based upon other cheaper and probably more capable options available.  Today there are just toooooooooo many resources that a captain of a cruise ship has at his fingertips.  The use of a 3rd party entity could help the captain with the finer details and interpretation of some of the more technical aspects of weather forecasting and do it cheaply.  Hell, I can get on this very laptop or my Android and see, in real-time, the seas (see link above), wind, ocean currents, jetstreams, ice packs, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, temperatures, rain, and get forecasts for all of those ..............   I don't think there is a square inch on the planet that you, me, or anyone else, can't find some sort of weather information on.  

 

This is all my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.  

I even bet that "whoever" is looking at the raw data has to pay to get it from somewhere, so having an in house guy would be on TOP of the price of paying the people with the meters and radar and all the stuff one needs.....unless that all comes from NOAA for everyone for free? (I'm from Florida, so from June 1-December 1 I am visiting that NHC website multiple times a week hahahaha)

 

You could just pay the meteorologists at the place that you pay for the access to the data from the meters and radar and all the stuff one needs to do what you need....just like bundling your home and auto! HAHA

[Ret MP]

5 minutes ago, Kathscof said:

I even bet that "whoever" is looking at the raw data has to pay to get it from somewhere, so having an in house guy would be on TOP of the price of paying the people with the meters and radar and all the stuff one needs.....unless that all comes from NOAA for everyone for free? (I'm from Florida, so from June 1-December 1 I am visiting that NHC website multiple times a week hahahaha)

 

You could just pay the meteorologists at the place that you pay for the access to the data from the meters and radar and all the stuff one needs to do what you need....just like bundling your home and auto! HAHA

https://ocean.weather.gov/Atl_tab.php

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Ret MP

[Kathscof]

7 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

https://ocean.weather.gov/Atl_tab.php

 

neato!  I guess my question was more "do they have the same access as the public or are there more things they would have to pay for to have access to?"

[DirtyDawg]

Royal paid out about $1.4 Billion in interest costs over the past year. They'd have to fire a few thousand Van Fleets to really take a bite out of that albatross. 🐦

[Ret MP]

2 minutes ago, Kathscof said:

neato!  I guess my question was more "do they have the same access as the public or are there more things they would have to pay for to have access to?"

My guess, and only a guess, is that if it's available to you or me for free, it's available to them for free as well.  And, I'm sure there are some "pay for use" sites that provide a lot of nice bells and whistles.  I watched a couple of James Van Fleet's/RCCL's Youtube videos and his graphics don't look like anything special.  It just looks like he/RCCL put some overlays over the graphics to show the positions of RCCL's ships and Ports of Call.  Nothing that you or I can't do with the right software.  

[Ret MP]

3 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

Royal paid out about $1.4 Billion in interest costs over the past year. They'd have to fire a few thousand Van Fleets to really take a bite out of that albatross. 🐦

I totally agree.  But, at about $200K a year, it's a start!

[Kathscof]

1 minute ago, Ret MP said:

My guess, and only a guess, is that if it's available to you or me for free, it's available to them for free as well.  And, I'm sure there are some "pay for use" sites that provide a lot of nice bells and whistles.  I watched a couple of James Van Fleet's/RCCL's Youtube videos and his graphics don't look like anything special.  It just looks like he/RCCL put some overlays over the graphics to show the positions of RCCL's ships and Ports of Call.  Nothing that you or I can't do with the right software.  

interesante.....then I bet anyone could do that! and get even more perks if they worked for an actual weather place! 

[Ret MP]

3 minutes ago, Kathscof said:

interesante.....then I bet anyone could do that! and get even more perks if they worked for an actual weather place! 

I don't know about that.  Could I go and work for the Weather Channel?  NO!  However, I believe I can research and find all, if not most, of the information needed to form a basic forecast, I do that on a daily basis before I go to my local park to do my daily walk/run/workout.  Do I know how to put all the information together and form a commercial forecast?  NO!

[BazingAu]

Will miss Jim Van Fleet. He (and our captain) was on top of the tropical storm that was headed to Cabo on our Navigator cruise in September. We were always 1 step ahead of the storm. The Carnival ship that was on the same/similar route was caught in it. Van Fleet was definitely a differentiator for RCCL, and IMHO getting rid of this position is a huge loss for the company.

[smokeybandit]

2 hours ago, Ret MP said:

The captain of the ship has the ultimate responsibility for the safety of the ship.  He has plenty of resources at his fingertips to adjust his route to avoid weather situations.

Advising captains was never the reason they hired him. It was a PR/marketing hire to show RC was serious about the weather and to have someone to talk to passengers, not officers.

[Kathscof]

38 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I don't know about that.  Could I go and work for the Weather Channel?  NO!  However, I believe I can research and find all, if not most, of the information needed to form a basic forecast, I do that on a daily basis before I go to my local park to do my daily walk/run/workout.  Do I know how to put all the information together and form a commercial forecast?  NO!

yes, anyone who was a meteorologist could do that 🙂 especially one who works at a weather place 🙂 

[John&LaLa]

Pretty sure Royal ships have onboard weather radar and staff that are familiar with operating it. 

 

That being said, some teams/captains make poor decisions on occasion 

[TexasRon]

8 minutes ago, John&amp;LaLa said:

Pretty sure Royal ships have onboard weather radar and staff that are familiar with operating it. 

 

That being said, some teams/captains make poor decisions on occasion 

I am sure they do.  I know lots of people like to disparage meteorologists (and I note that you didn’t) but there is truly a heck of a lot more that goes into making the best  possible forecast than just some staff, WeatherBug, and weather radar.

 

They are 100% getting info from somewhere that has staff meteorologists working specifically on their needs.  They might have been doing that all along as well as having a “face” in a position to handle giving weather updates and recommendations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TexasRon]

Cruise Critic says that they use weather assessment companies…I googled it an ended up back here…

 

LOL

[Ret MP]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

Advising captains was never the reason they hired him. It was a PR/marketing hire to show RC was serious about the weather and to have someone to talk to passengers, not officers.

Yep, that's part of what I was saying, tried to say it was a show position, not a serious one.  

[Ret MP]

1 hour ago, John&amp;LaLa said:

Pretty sure Royal ships have onboard weather radar and staff that are familiar with operating it. 

 

That being said, some teams/captains make poor decisions on occasion 

LOL: Costa Concordia

[Ret MP]

46 minutes ago, TexasRon said:

I know lots of people like to disparage meteorologists

I hope that isn't a backhanded way to say I was. 

 

I don't have a publicly stated opinion about meteorologists one way or the other.  I just have an opinion about RCCL having a "Corporate Meteorologist".  Obviously, I don't think they need one, at least not a celebrity one.    

[smokeybandit]

1 minute ago, Ret MP said:

Obviously, I don't think they need one, at least not a celebrity one.    

So you're saying Jim Cantore is out of the running?

[Ret MP]

Just now, smokeybandit said:

So you're saying Jim Cantore is out of the running?

I really dislike that guy for numerous reasons!