Force Majeure: will it be more common with Royal?

[Engineroom Snipe]

Yes, I always travel with insurance because of the fine print in the contracts.

 

The problem is that right now, I am seeing more actions by travel providers in general that are using those fine print contract lines to avoid any type of accountability (or good customer relations) when there is even the slightest hiccup. 

 

I am starting to reduce my cruise travel because I do not want to have to fight a big corporation over small items which in total tend to take away from my vacation experience.

 

I stop flying to ports because my airline can use almost any excuse to cancel my trip, overbook the plane, have a mechanical malfunction, inadequate crew, FAA computer problems, Airline computer problems, bad weather at my departure airport, bad weather at my landing airport, bad weather at an airport that my departure plan is coming from, oh, by the way, we do not know where your luggage is, if we cannot find it in two weeks, file a claim and maybe you can get $300 compensation.

 

The cruise lines are doing the same thing.

 

My choice, do I book another cruise?

 

Reduce my room service to once a day.

 

Give me a room that does not have a refridgerator or chiller, and then make me look for my cabin attendent who does not provide an icebucket for two days because they are handling more rooms with less resources.

 

Reduce my food offerings in the Park Cafe, Windjammer, and MDR.

 

Raise your price points so they "reflect the costs of other types of vacation experiences."

 

Realistically, a cruise this September from Bayonne for seven days is about $2000 for an inside GTY including tax. Add parking and gratuities (no arguements please, save the discussion for another thread) which is $175 (before projected increases to $210 for parking) and $224.

 

Comes to about $342 per day for two people for a hotel room and meals.

 

The hotel room moves to the same places I have been before, nothing new so I stay in the hotel.

 

The meals are quickly becoming the same food I can go to on land and get an "adequate" food, not great but not bad. Think Olive Garden, Golden Corral, and Cicis. You get the picture, decent food and adequate but not anything special.

 

RCI states that 14% of their customers are from 60 years old to 70 years old.

 

That percentage is about to go down next year if I keep seeing the prices go up and the quality of experience go down.

 

I will do "other vacation experiences" at that price point.

 

This post was triggered by valid postings from others that highlight the ability of travel providers in general to avoid any type of accountablity which is in their contracts but they insist thay you pay them regardless of your experience.

 

I do not want to gamble my travel experience.

 

 

 

[Ret MP]

4 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

Yes, I always travel with insurance because of the fine print in the contracts.

 

The problem is that right now, I am seeing more actions by travel providers in general that are using those fine print contract lines to avoid any type of accountability (or good customer relations) when there is even the slightest hiccup. 

 

I am starting to reduce my cruise travel because I do not want to have to fight a big corporation over small items which in total tend to take away from my vacation experience.

 

I stop flying to ports because my airline can use almost any excuse to cancel my trip, overbook the plane, have a mechanical malfunction, inadequate crew, FAA computer problems, Airline computer problems, bad weather at my departure airport, bad weather at my landing airport, bad weather at an airport that my departure plan is coming from, oh, by the way, we do not know where your luggage is, if we cannot find it in two weeks, file a claim and maybe you can get $300 compensation.

 

The cruise lines are doing the same thing.

 

My choice, do I book another cruise?

 

Reduce my room service to once a day.

 

Give me a room that does not have a refridgerator or chiller, and then make me look for my cabin attendent who does not provide an icebucket for two days because they are handling more rooms with less resources.

 

Reduce my food offerings in the Park Cafe, Windjammer, and MDR.

 

Raise your price points so they "reflect the costs of other types of vacation experiences."

 

Realistically, a cruise this September from Bayonne for seven days is about $2000 for an inside GTY including tax. Add parking and gratuities (no arguements please, save the discussion for another thread) which is $175 (before projected increases to $210 for parking) and $224.

 

Comes to about $342 per day for two people for a hotel room and meals.

 

The hotel room moves to the same places I have been before, nothing new so I stay in the hotel.

 

The meals are quickly becoming the same food I can go to on land and get an "adequate" food, not great but not bad. Think Olive Garden, Golden Corral, and Cicis. You get the picture, decent food and adequate but not anything special.

 

RCI states that 14% of their customers are from 60 years old to 70 years old.

 

That percentage is about to go down next year if I keep seeing the prices go up and the quality of experience go down.

 

I will do "other vacation experiences" at that price point.

 

This post was triggered by valid postings from others that highlight the ability of travel providers in general to avoid any type of accountablity which is in their contracts but they insist thay you pay them regardless of your experience.

 

I do not want to gamble my travel experience.

 

 

 

As much as I'm loyal to Royal, I think it's time for me to reconsider any future booking on a cruise line.  I hate that thought as I love cruising.  But they are nickel and diming me to death, and I mean nickel and dime not just prices but nickel and dime services and now deposits.  It's like we are being steamrolled with price increases, reduced services, reduced quantity, and reduced quality <(although I haven't seen hard proof of that) of food services, and discontinued activities/venues.  AND, it doesn't seem to be slowing down at all.   When will it stop? <not really a question.  I think we are getting very close to finding that straw......

 

 

[Husky1987]

4 hours ago, PWP-001 said:

Ironically, the poster who seemed most upset-- isn't even sailing until the 28th, when it's estimated things are back to normal!

 

Unaffected posters being the most vocal seems to be the norm on CC.

[PWP-001]

25 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

Yes, I always travel with insurance because of the fine print in the contracts.

 

The problem is that right now, I am seeing more actions by travel providers in general that are using those fine print contract lines to avoid any type of accountability (or good customer relations) when there is even the slightest hiccup. 

 

I am starting to reduce my cruise travel because I do not want to have to fight a big corporation over small items which in total tend to take away from my vacation experience.

 

I stop flying to ports because my airline can use almost any excuse to cancel my trip, overbook the plane, have a mechanical malfunction, inadequate crew, FAA computer problems, Airline computer problems, bad weather at my departure airport, bad weather at my landing airport, bad weather at an airport that my departure plan is coming from, oh, by the way, we do not know where your luggage is, if we cannot find it in two weeks, file a claim and maybe you can get $300 compensation.

 

The cruise lines are doing the same thing.

 

My choice, do I book another cruise?

 

Reduce my room service to once a day.

 

Give me a room that does not have a refridgerator or chiller, and then make me look for my cabin attendent who does not provide an icebucket for two days because they are handling more rooms with less resources.

 

Reduce my food offerings in the Park Cafe, Windjammer, and MDR.

 

Raise your price points so they "reflect the costs of other types of vacation experiences."

 

Realistically, a cruise this September from Bayonne for seven days is about $2000 for an inside GTY including tax. Add parking and gratuities (no arguements please, save the discussion for another thread) which is $175 (before projected increases to $210 for parking) and $224.

 

Comes to about $342 per day for two people for a hotel room and meals.

 

The hotel room moves to the same places I have been before, nothing new so I stay in the hotel.

 

The meals are quickly becoming the same food I can go to on land and get an "adequate" food, not great but not bad. Think Olive Garden, Golden Corral, and Cicis. You get the picture, decent food and adequate but not anything special.

 

RCI states that 14% of their customers are from 60 years old to 70 years old.

 

That percentage is about to go down next year if I keep seeing the prices go up and the quality of experience go down.

 

I will do "other vacation experiences" at that price point.

 

This post was triggered by valid postings from others that highlight the ability of travel providers in general to avoid any type of accountablity which is in their contracts but they insist thay you pay them regardless of your experience.

 

I do not want to gamble my travel experience.

 

 

 

When you mentioned the comparable landside options of Olive Garden, Golden Corral... you should have thrown in Ponderosa, Sizzler, or Longhorn's.  😆

 

I think we were discussing this tipping point several months ago in another buried thread.  There's only so much "pent up demand" to fill their ships before soft booking numbers indicate their core customers haven't returned as often or at all. 

[Engineroom Snipe]

8 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

When you mentioned the comparable landside options of Olive Garden, Golden Corral... you should have thrown in Ponderosa, Sizzler, or Longhorn's.  😆

 

I think we were discussing this tipping point several months ago in another buried thread.  There's only so much "pent up demand" to fill their ships before soft booking numbers indicate their core customers haven't returned as often or at all. 

Yes to all of the above.

 

So many posters make fun of long-term repeat customers as if "they do not have a choice, where else can they get all of their perks and such a great time?"

 

One choice is, "No where else."

 

We will sit on the sidelines.

 

I think next spring will be the turning point.

 

While there are many booked rooms with deposits, if the economy goes south, how many of those deposits will request a full refund? How many new cruisers think their experience is worth repeating at the price points they were charged?

 

Time will tell.

[Engineroom Snipe]

2 hours ago, Ret MP said:

As much as I'm loyal to Royal, I think it's time for me to reconsider any future booking on a cruise line.  I hate that thought as I love cruising.  But they are nickel and diming me to death, and I mean nickel and dime not just prices but nickel and dime services and now deposits.  It's like we are being steamrolled with price increases, reduced services, reduced quantity, and reduced quality <(although I haven't seen hard proof of that) of food services, and discontinued activities/venues.  AND, it doesn't seem to be slowing down at all.   When will it stop? <not really a question.  I think we are getting very close to finding that straw......

 

 

Food services: The staff services surrounding the food services have been very good. My problem has been all around "the edges."

 

Charcuterie which I once adored on RCI, non-existent now.

 

High quality fresh fruit cut and trimmed at all meals in the Windjammer, non-existent now.

 

New York Strip Steaks served in the Windjammer for dinners, non-existent now.

 

Sushi, prepared in the Windjammer (normally about 30 minutes before main service), non-existent now.

 

Salad bars, containing spinach, lettuce, romaine, grape tomatoes, olives, hard-boiled eggs, minced ham, minced onions, carrot slices, cucumber slices, parmigiana cheese, Swiss cheese cubes, tuna, baby shrimp, seeds, nuts, and dried fruits, croutons, and so many dressings, non-existent now.

 

I can go on, and on, and on.

 

I am a foodie but I do not demand the Windjammer or MDR deliver an experience of a ten star restaurant.  I DO remember what I have had on RCI before what they are serving me now.

[lovesthebeach2]

As others have said here and in other threads, there will be a tipping point, but Royal will continue pushing ahead until that happens.  If people continue to book, and the ships continue to be filled and even overbooked, they will continue their course.

 

But I’ve said before, they should be taking a look at Disney. They pushed and pushed their prices higher and higher and they went too far. It cost the head of Disney his job and he was fired. 
I just read in the Orlando Sentinel the other day that ridiculously expensive Star Wars 2 day experience that was an average of over $1,200 per person, per day is closing. When that opened I felt bad for Disney for being so greedy, and the guests for paying the enormous amounts., because I knew it would fail.

 

Royal isn’t greedy in the same way, but if they think we don’t notice the cuts, it will be their fail too.

We’re still cruising, but we’re not gaining any weight on them. 😁

[PWP-001]

2 hours ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

Yes to all of the above.

 

So many posters make fun of long-term repeat customers as if "they do not have a choice, where else can they get all of their perks and such a great time?"

 

One choice is, "No where else."

 

We will sit on the sidelines.

 

I think next spring will be the turning point.

 

While there are many booked rooms with deposits, if the economy goes south, how many of those deposits will request a full refund? How many new cruisers think their experience is worth repeating at the price points they were charged?

 

Time will tell.

Maybe they're already growing concerned.  Isn't there a policy update that has increased deposit amounts and now some are non-refundable?.

[PWP-001]

4 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

As others have said here and in other threads, there will be a tipping point, but Royal will continue pushing ahead until that happens.  If people continue to book, and the ships continue to be filled and even overbooked, they will continue their course.

 

But I’ve said before, they should be taking a look at Disney. They pushed and pushed their prices higher and higher and they went too far. It cost the head of Disney his job and he was fired. 
I just read in the Orlando Sentinel the other day that ridiculously expensive Star Wars 2 day experience that was an average of over $1,200 per person, per day is closing. When that opened I felt bad for Disney for being so greedy, and the guests for paying the enormous amounts., because I knew it would fail.

 

Royal isn’t greedy in the same way, but if they think we don’t notice the cuts, it will be their fail too.

We’re still cruising, but we’re not gaining any weight on them. 😁

 

You thoughts on Disney and characterizing them as greedy are probably NOT shared by the majority.  With respect to the Galactic Starcruiser experience, other newspapers have pointed out that the two-day events were labor intensive and carried a high cost to execute.  Repeat demand hasn't hit the numbers they forecasted.  Much has also been written about Disney tinkering with pricing for Premium add-ons available in limited quantities, such as Genie Plus.  

 

Royal has been doing the same at Coco Cay:  raising the price for overwater cabanas to >$4,000; escalating prices for Beach Club Access as well as the waterpark.  These are add-ons that are not required to enjoy the day of the private island.  They just seem to be tinkering with the price to maximize their revenue.  I'd say it's part of their survival mechanism.

 

LOL:  Greedy is tempting us with the delicious smell of popcorn outside the theater, and charging way too much for it.  (Though to be truthful, I bought it and intentionally didn't look at how much it cost.) 

[Engineroom Snipe]

22 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

Maybe they're already growing concerned.  Isn't there a policy update that has increased deposit amounts and now some are non-refundable?.

I am not aware of the policy updates because I have not booked any more cruises since November 2022.

 

If RCI does enforce the new policies that you mentioned, it would be like someone who has shot their own foot, now bleeding so much from the self-inflected gun wound that they now need to use a tourniquet and possibly loose the limb. They failed to see the long term consequences because they are only concerned about immediate survival.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Engineroom Snipe
spelling

[lovesthebeach2]

8 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

 

You thoughts on Disney and characterizing them as greedy are probably NOT shared by the majority.  With respect to the Galactic Starcruiser experience, other newspapers have pointed out that the two-day events were labor intensive and carried a high cost to execute.  Repeat demand hasn't hit the numbers they forecasted.  Much has also been written about Disney tinkering with pricing for Premium add-ons available in limited quantities, such as Genie Plus.  

 

Royal has been doing the same at Coco Cay:  raising the price for overwater cabanas to >$4,000; escalating prices for Beach Club Access as well as the waterpark.  These are add-ons that are not required to enjoy the day of the private island.  They just seem to be tinkering with the price to maximize their revenue.  I'd say it's part of their survival mechanism.

 

LOL:  Greedy is tempting us with the delicious smell of popcorn outside the theater, and charging way too much for it.  (Though to be truthful, I bought it and intentionally didn't look at how much it cost.) 

I agree that the experience was intensive, therefore the very high price….BUT….how many can actually afford that, especially families…..Turns out not enough. I don’t want that to happen to Royal. I love cruising!

 

Regarding the movie popcorn….When I was a Teenager I worked for a couple of years in a movie theatre and did many jobs there, one was the concession stand.  Suffices to say, I will never eat movie popcorn, even though I agree, it smells fabulous, but my DH does even though I told him the stories of the popcorn!

[topnole]

2 hours ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

As others have said here and in other threads, there will be a tipping point, but Royal will continue pushing ahead until that happens.  If people continue to book, and the ships continue to be filled and even overbooked, they will continue their course.

 

But I’ve said before, they should be taking a look at Disney. They pushed and pushed their prices higher and higher and they went too far. It cost the head of Disney his job and he was fired. 
I just read in the Orlando Sentinel the other day that ridiculously expensive Star Wars 2 day experience that was an average of over $1,200 per person, per day is closing. When that opened I felt bad for Disney for being so greedy, and the guests for paying the enormous amounts., because I knew it would fail.

 

Royal isn’t greedy in the same way, but if they think we don’t notice the cuts, it will be their fail too.

We’re still cruising, but we’re not gaining any weight on them. 😁

The parks and experiences segment did fine in revenue and profit per their last quarterly statement.  It’s media that is hurting and that was supposed to be their growth area.  That is why their stock price has suffered greatly.  Parks and resorts are not their problem.  Plus parks and resorts are only about 1/3 of their revenue.  Disney needs the media segment to do well or they can’t be successful financially.  
 

So I’m not sure the Disney example applies well.  That Star Wars hotel was so niche it just didn’t have legs to last.  It’s like a one and done experience with actors etc.  Just not enough people who want to role play like your are in Star Wars for 2 straight days like 10 year olds would be happy to do.  

[HappyTexan44]

18 hours ago, topnole said:

So I’m not sure the Disney example applies well.  That Star Wars hotel was so niche it just didn’t have legs to last.  It’s like a one and done experience with actors etc.  Just not enough people who want to role play like your are in Star Wars for 2 straight days like 10 year olds would be happy to do.  

 

After the first bit, reports were bad.   As in people never meeting an actor even while actively trying to role play, or when an actor was met they were flat and didn't want to play their part.  

 

[Ret MP]

I am really straining to stay out of this Disney discussion.  I have nothing good to offer!