Additional TAX in UK ports now!

[SpainAlien]

On 5/25/2023 at 6:51 PM, roxette said:

The European costumer laws are very strict. The price you see, should be the price you pay. No hidden fees. 

 

Like it or not. 

 

I like it.

I'm sorry but you are wrong regarding the EU laws. I live in Spain and most restaurant prices are plus tax. You can also get many things quoted nett and then tax shown separately 

 

[insidecabin]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

That’s the point I was making.  Other cruise lines just add in the VAT/Tax into the cost of the drinks or drink package.

And that's the issue with NCL.

 

I have the package give me my drinks what happens behind the scenes is not the customers problem you sold me a unlimited drinks package deliver it without extra charges.

 

Why can't you(NCL) tell me before I get on the ship you cannot  deliver something you sold me?

 

Every other cruise line manages to do it why can't NCL

 

(The only reference to actual charges I have seen is here with not supporting evidence.)

 

 

 

 

 

[roxette]

6 minutes ago, SpainAlien said:

I'm sorry but you are wrong regarding the EU laws. I live in Spain and most restaurant prices are plus tax. You can also get many things quoted nett and then tax shown separately 

 

According to the EU I am not wrong.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/indexamp_en.htm

 

When you buy goods or services in the EU, you have to be clearly informed about the total price, including all taxes and additional charges.

 

[SpainAlien]

1 minute ago, roxette said:

According to the EU I am not wrong.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/indexamp_en.htm

 

When you buy goods or services in the EU, you have to be clearly informed about the total price, including all taxes and additional charges.

 

It just doesn't happen in Spain. Typically a set price menu is say 15€ plus IVA. Of course that maybe because we have three different rates of IVA and eating in or taking away makes a difference on the IVA rate

Edited May 26, 2023 by SpainAlien

[insidecabin]

11 minutes ago, SpainAlien said:

So your objection isn't the increased price it's the price shown on the menu?  What's the difference, you would still have to pay the tax whether it's included in the price or shown as an extra!  You seriously are kicking up a fuss because you want the menus printed for while they are in port then replaced when entering international waters?

 

The problem is we are getting sold a package they won't deliver.

 

Any costs are for the cruise line to sort out and stop bothering the passenger.

 

 

 

 

[SpainAlien]

3 minutes ago, insidecabin said:

The problem is we are getting sold a package they won't deliver.

 

Any costs are for the cruise line to sort out and stop bothering the passenger.

 

 

 

 

But it's done this way in the US all the time for example in New York there is a local tax which is applied at the perceived value of the drink you ordered even if you have a drinks package, therefore they have an existing business model for it. Since not all ports on the itinerary (and certainly not time at sea in International waters) incur VAT on the drinks it would make the FAS price different on a per cruise basis which would simply be unworkable.

[pc_load_letter]

5 minutes ago, SpainAlien said:

But it's done this way in the US all the time for example in New York there is a local tax which is applied at the perceived value of the drink you ordered even if you have a drinks package, therefore they have an existing business model for it. Since not all ports on the itinerary (and certainly not time at sea in International waters) incur VAT on the drinks it would make the FAS price different on a per cruise basis which would simply be unworkable.

 

It's an interesting conundrum.

[scooter6139]

Does the UK still follow all EU laws and regulations?  As the UK worked very hard to totally separate itself from the EU.

[insidecabin]

18 minutes ago, SpainAlien said:

But it's done this way in the US all the time for example in New York there is a local tax which is applied at the perceived value of the drink you ordered even if you have a drinks package, therefore they have an existing business model for it. Since not all ports on the itinerary (and certainly not time at sea in International waters) incur VAT on the drinks it would make the FAS price different on a per cruise basis which would simply be unworkable.

The FAS price is just some made up  price.

 

For US based on some made up drinks/dinner gratuity on the cost  of a speculative daily package rate.

 

For UK a fixed £ based on cruise length.

 

As the basis of the drinks package is a $limit very few drinks would cross the boundary with any additions.

 

The purpose of a drinks package is so you should not  have to care, the business model undermine that.

 

MSC prices their drinks packages on a per cruise basis and has no problems with that.

 

[insidecabin]

18 minutes ago, scooter6139 said:

Does the UK still follow all EU laws and regulations?  As the UK worked very hard to totally separate itself from the EU.

UK has its own implications they don't just stop.

 

 

[bmwman]

1 hour ago, SpainAlien said:

So your objection isn't the increased price it's the price shown on the menu?  What's the difference, you would still have to pay the tax whether it's included in the price or shown as an extra!  You seriously are kicking up a fuss because you want the menus printed for while they are in port then replaced when entering international waters?

 

Wrong!!! The package is a one-off price if you are a drinker and generally Brits are the £149 even plus tax is dirt cheap, compared to 12 lagers a day plus tax. plus wine at lunch 

[bmwman]

1 hour ago, SpainAlien said:

I'm sorry but you are wrong regarding the EU laws. I live in Spain and most restaurant prices are plus tax. You can also get many things quoted nett and then tax shown separately 

 

Clearly not Barcelona. Let me attach some menus if you try and call me out!

[bmwman]

1 hour ago, roxette said:

According to the EU I am not wrong.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/indexamp_en.htm

 

When you buy goods or services in the EU, you have to be clearly informed about the total price, including all taxes and additional charges.

 

Thank you Mr A needs to get his facts right

[insidecabin]

23 minutes ago, bmwman said:

Wrong!!! The package is a one-off price if you are a drinker and generally Brits are the £149 even plus tax is dirt cheap, compared to 12 lagers a day plus tax. plus wine at lunch 

It varies by cruise length £149 is only for 6-9 days.

 

Just seen there is a new FAS promo for UK

 

1/2 price on one we are looking at

 

UK FAS inside GTY 11n £560pp on the Star.

 

They don't get much cheaper than that AI.

 

Even I would pay some extra taxes.

[UKstages]

there is a difference between a tax and a fee and people get this confused all the time... there is widespread (innocent or not so innocent) misapplication of the terms.

 

in order for something to be taxed, it has to cost something. a fee can be applied to anything, even a good or a service that costs nothing.
 

as noted upthread, there can never be a tax on a zero cost item... there is no tax basis, as the item is free.

 

in the USA, if a tax applied to the drink package, you'd be paying an additional tax on the cost associated with the drink package at the time you book your cruise or at the time final payment is due, which you don't. the item is free and you are paying gratuities; you don't pay a tax on the gratuity.

 

as for the "tax" collected in some USA ports, it corresponds with the "tax" associated with the alleged retail price of the drink, but it is not really a tax. the local laws are written sloppily and/or NCL implies it's a tax, but it's really a fee based on the retail cost of the drink and corresponding to the prevailing tax rate. i know that sounds a lot like a "tax," but technically, it isn't. and if were to officially be declared a "tax," then some smart lawyer should do a class action suit to refund all the money collected because, again, you can't "tax" a zero cost item. 

[eileeshb]

2 hours ago, SpainAlien said:

But it's done this way in the US all the time for example in New York there is a local tax which is applied at the perceived value of the drink you ordered even if you have a drinks package, therefore they have an existing business model for it. Since not all ports on the itinerary (and certainly not time at sea in International waters) incur VAT on the drinks it would make the FAS price different on a per cruise basis which would simply be unworkable.

it is standard across the USA for local sales taxes to be excluded from all pricing, it is NOT standard across the rest of world and definitely not in Europe. I’m looking at up to an extra $70 per night in local taxes and charges for a hotel in Seattle. 

If Spain has a derogation on price display in the hospitality sector is then that is a specific exception to EU laws. There are various exceptions to EU laws across the EU but they are country dependent. Something like Ireland continuing to use imperial measures for beer instead of metric is just such an exception. Pre covid in Ireland we had differing VAT rates for eating/drinking on the premises v’s take out but both prices were published on menus. 
The VAT on the drink package is already included at point of purchase for European customers unless they book via a US travel agent so NCL can’t charge it a second time. 
These extra charges at European ports should not apply to customers who purchased their FAS or Drinks package via a European web portal as they’ve already been paid per EU and UK regulations.  Heck by rights European guests shouldn’t be getting hit with the sales taxes at US cruise ports either. 
 

The EU made it a requirement that travel prices must be inclusive of all mandatory taxes/fees when the airlines were constantly advertising €5 fares but then lumping on €20+ taxes and charges onto that. 

[scooter6139]

8 minutes ago, eileeshb said:

.  Heck by rights European guests shouldn’t be getting hit with the sales taxes at US cruise ports either. 
 

The EU made it a requirement that travel prices must be inclusive of all mandatory taxes/fees when the airlines were constantly advertising €5 fares but then lumping on €20+ taxes and charges onto that. 

So how does EU law have anything to do with US ports and local US port taxes or fees?

[eileeshb]

1 minute ago, scooter6139 said:

So how does EU law have anything to do with US ports and local US port taxes or fees?

They’re selling to a person on a European website and per EU rules they should be making it crystal clear at the time of purchase for FAS that additional sales taxes may be incurred on drink orders at US ports. We (European customers) pay for FAS, pricing depends on current promos and length of cruise. It’s typically €149 for a 7 day cruise at the moment but we don’t get hit with the gratuities associated with either the drink package nor the specialty dining. A few years ago the daily service charge was built into the main cruise fare but was that decoupled to be a separate line item you could elect to pre-pay or not.  

[insidecabin]

Latest  email in late last night.

 

The feedback/complaints must have got NCL to see some sense.

Tempted to book another during the 50% Off FAS sale, 

With the FCC and a CN the cruise will be dirt cheap.  

 

 

$100 pp FCC   

$50 as a refund  and $50 as a gesture.

 

$50 is about right for a UK FAS drinks package element on a 10n I use £17~=$21 

 

Dated 24th, email 26th(after 9pm UK time)

$100 on the latitude  account now,  good to Dec 24.

 

 

Dear Valued Guests,
Thank you for your loyalty and for making us your vacation of choice.

We are committed to delivering exceptional vacation experiences from beginning to end, including the ability to purchase and consume alcoholic beverages while onboard.

 

As such, we sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused by the restriction of alcohol sales during your recent voyage aboard Norwegian Star.

Due to the partial closure of alcohol sales, resulting in the inability to utilize your pre-purchased beverage package two days of your cruise, we have arranged for a $50 Future Cruise Credit (FCC) for all affected guests.

In addition to the above, all affected guests will receive an additional $50 FCC as a token of our appreciation and sincerest apologies.

...

[luv2kroooz]

It is absolutely amazing to me that it could have possibly taken 2 weeks to figure this out, but that is typical with NCL. They typically get to a correct result. It is just after all kinds of negative publicity. Strange.

[macattack1111]

Can anyone tell me who has cruised recently with NCL that had ports in the EU and out of the EU For example Casablanca, Morocco did they still have to pay the VAT on all their drinks even though they had the "Free at Sea "

[luv2kroooz]

50 minutes ago, macattack1111 said:

Can anyone tell me who has cruised recently with NCL that had ports in the EU and out of the EU For example Casablanca, Morocco did they still have to pay the VAT on all their drinks even though they had the "Free at Sea "

Our cruise was last month and not solely EU. We had free at sea. We were charged and paid 10% VAT in all Spanish ports and when the ship was within 12 nautical miles of Spanish waters. We were not charged VAT in France, Portugal, Italy. Only beer and wine available in Italy.

 

I have since learned that it was unlawful to charge and collect VAT on the free at sea, but I have no interest in fighting with NCL over $100. Fortunately for us, we won't miss it. NCL needs it. We will burn our last few cruise next when they offer their fire sales and we are moving to a new cruise provider. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by luv2kroooz

[macattack1111]

I think NCL are shooting themselves in the foot regarding the vat and also the sudden cancellation of 13 cruises on the Epic...MSC are quickly emerging in the UK  and Europe With their large ships...although the final product is night quite as good as NCL...they will certainly give NCL a run for there money with their pricing and reasonable drink packages.

[insidecabin]

44 minutes ago, macattack1111 said:

I think NCL are shooting themselves in the foot regarding the vat and also the sudden cancellation of 13 cruises on the Epic...MSC are quickly emerging in the UK  and Europe With their large ships...although the final product is night quite as good as NCL...they will certainly give NCL a run for there money with their pricing and reasonable drink packages.

They were already a major force in the European/Med market.

 

There were lots of UK cruisers that did not like the product, too Italian was the main core issue.

 

post covid they have done major push, they give the UK a new ship adjust more of the food to be more British stick the kettle in the cabin.

give good incentives to TA's

They include gratuities and discount the top drinks package which includes just about everything, far better than NCL.

 

This was just when people were looking for no fly options

 

Keep it simple don't give reasons not to  book.

 

They can't fix somethings as that is the way they do stuff can be just as frustrating as NCL.

 

They Price the cruises well (not stupid high then have 50% off) , target solos, families along with new to cruising brits are loving it.

Getting their new ship later this year.

 

NCL still our best fit  but they make it easy at times to just use someone else.

 

NCL with the rock bottom late deals and the 50% off FAS this weekend trying to find another  NCL we want to do.

 

 

[graphicguy]

18 hours ago, insidecabin said:

The problem is we are getting sold a package they won't deliver.

 

Any costs are for the cruise line to sort out and stop bothering the passenger.

 

 

 

 

That’s a pretty big stretch.  You bought a drink package.  They are serving you drinks included in the package.  Should they include the fees in the package?  I guess…maybe!!!!!  Can they add the tips/fees to the package and raise the price to compensate?  Sure!  Should they charge one price for drinks with fees and taxes added in while in port, and another price without those fees when out to sea?  That would seem to cause even more confusion.  But, it would satisfy this uproar.

 

Personally, I don’t care.  I’m used to having to pay taxes while in certain ports.  Many places they can’t open the casinos.  I guess I could say I wasn’t getting what they promised as a result.  But, their rules ordinarily reflect what local regulations require.

 

I guess push comes to shove, you can only sail those lines who add those charges into the cost.