Cunard, Port Authorities, Port Pilots, Coast Guard

[NE John]

After being part of the recent TA that detoured to Halifax for the medical emergency and reading many negative comments regarding Cunard based on that sad event, I’d like to take a moment out for a few comments. 
I worked for the Port Authority of NY and NJ and also in local politics in Brooklyn centering on waterfront issues. My DW worked for the actual Port of NY and NJ and worked closely with the harbor pilots and Coast Guard. Based on our experience, I can report that any vessel entering any port has to take orders from the Coast Guard, port pilots, or any port authority: Cunard, container ships, recreational boats - - every ship has to comply. Cunard has little to no control on whether the QM2 can tender in into a port, which port they can rush to in an attempt to save an ailing crew member or passenger, or when they can leave the port. Cunard has no control over the Brooklyn Cruise Terminal either. In addition, maritime work rules may prevent kitchen and wait staff crew from working after a certain time in order for them to rest for breakfast preparation the next morning (I am guessing about this last one but there are many maritime labor rules that are beyond Cunard’s control). 
It is very unfair to blame Cunard on many of these horrible events that have happened over the last couple weeks that is outside of their control. 

However, to me, Cunard failed utterly in providing communications to affected pax and the compensation of $25 OBC is insufficient   More empathy and acknowledgment from Cunard that many people suffered as they embarked would go a long way. 

To those saying Never Cunard Again! after one messed-up voyage, I believe it’s reasonable to give them another chance. We’ve been on their ships since 2008 and, while not as perfect as their marketing proclaims, we’ve enjoyed our time onboard along the itineraries we participated in. 
To close this sad note, I heard the baker passed away in Halifax from the heart attack he suffered onboard. 

[BklynBoy8]

33 minutes ago, NE John said:

After being part of the recent TA that detoured to Halifax for the medical emergency and reading many negative comments regarding Cunard based on that sad event, I’d like to take a moment out for a few comments. 
I worked for the Port Authority of NY and NJ and also in local politics in Brooklyn centering on waterfront issues. My DW worked for the actual Port of NY and NJ and worked closely with the harbor pilots and Coast Guard. Based on our experience, I can report that any vessel entering any port has to take orders from the Coast Guard, port pilots, or any port authority: Cunard, container ships, recreational boats - - every ship has to comply. Cunard has little to no control on whether the QM2 can tender in into a port, which port they can rush to in an attempt to save an ailing crew member or passenger, or when they can leave the port. Cunard has no control over the Brooklyn Cruise Terminal either. In addition, maritime work rules may prevent kitchen and wait staff crew from working after a certain time in order for them to rest for breakfast preparation the next morning (I am guessing about this last one but there are many maritime labor rules that are beyond Cunard’s control). 
It is very unfair to blame Cunard on many of these horrible events that have happened over the last couple weeks that is outside of their control. 

However, to me, Cunard failed utterly in providing communications to affected pax and the compensation of $25 OBC is insufficient   More empathy and acknowledgment from Cunard that many people suffered as they embarked would go a long way. 

To those saying Never Cunard Again! after one messed-up voyage, I believe it’s reasonable to give them another chance. We’ve been on their ships since 2008 and, while not as perfect as their marketing proclaims, we’ve enjoyed our time onboard along the itineraries we participated in. 
To close this sad note, I heard the baker passed away in Halifax from the heart attack he suffered onboard. 

 

Ditto to John's explanation and comments.

 

My DW & I and my departed parents have sailed with the Cunard Line since 1983. Our first sailing was with the Queen Elizabeth 2 also a Ocean Liner in her times.

 

We have had very, very memorable times we can recall during all our voyages and favor the Lines practices and traditionals.

 

But we too have had situations that we had encountered that were disappointing but understood them and as many said "Found The Silver Lining".

 

We expect to remain with the Cunard Line and especially our favorite vessel - QM2.

 

Thank you John....

[D&N]

For someone that is sailing on Cunard because they have a choice of sailings on different lines from a particular port, then if they so desire they can sail with someone else.

 

If you are sailing on Cunard because you want to sail on QM2, it doesn't really matter. There aren't two of them. Obviously it's best if everything goes entirely to plan but if not we just need to make the best of it.

 

We're not the least bit interested in the port calls, we wouldn't get off unless immigration forced us to.

[NE John]

5 hours ago, D&N said:

For someone that is sailing on Cunard because they have a choice of sailings on different lines from a particular port, then if they so desire they can sail with someone else.

 

If you are sailing on Cunard because you want to sail on QM2, it doesn't really matter. There aren't two of them. Obviously it's best if everything goes entirely to plan but if not we just need to make the best of it.

 

We're not the least bit interested in the port calls, we wouldn't get off unless immigration forced us to.

One of the problems of the Brooklyn. Cruise Terminal is that US Immigration forces everyone to get off the ship then re-enter via immigration, regardless if you’re leaving the ship or not. That adds to delays. 

[rmsEtruria]

6 hours ago, NE John said:

After being part of the recent TA that detoured to Halifax for the medical emergency and reading many negative comments regarding Cunard based on that sad event, I’d like to take a moment out for a few comments. 
I worked for the Port Authority of NY and NJ and also in local politics in Brooklyn centering on waterfront issues. My DW worked for the actual Port of NY and NJ and worked closely with the harbor pilots and Coast Guard. Based on our experience, I can report that any vessel entering any port has to take orders from the Coast Guard, port pilots, or any port authority: Cunard, container ships, recreational boats - - every ship has to comply. Cunard has little to no control on whether the QM2 can tender in into a port, which port they can rush to in an attempt to save an ailing crew member or passenger, or when they can leave the port. Cunard has no control over the Brooklyn Cruise Terminal either. In addition, maritime work rules may prevent kitchen and wait staff crew from working after a certain time in order for them to rest for breakfast preparation the next morning (I am guessing about this last one but there are many maritime labor rules that are beyond Cunard’s control). 
It is very unfair to blame Cunard on many of these horrible events that have happened over the last couple weeks that is outside of their control. 

However, to me, Cunard failed utterly in providing communications to affected pax and the compensation of $25 OBC is insufficient   More empathy and acknowledgment from Cunard that many people suffered as they embarked would go a long way. 

To those saying Never Cunard Again! after one messed-up voyage, I believe it’s reasonable to give them another chance. We’ve been on their ships since 2008 and, while not as perfect as their marketing proclaims, we’ve enjoyed our time onboard along the itineraries we participated in. 
To close this sad note, I heard the baker passed away in Halifax from the heart attack he suffered onboard. 

NE John—I am sorry to hear about the baker. From what I’ve seen in the hundreds and hundreds of posts I’ve read on the Cunard board, adequate communication when something goes wrong seems to be a consistently sore point. But your clarification of what degree of control Cunard has over port-related matters—virtually none—is instructive and very much needed. Thank you!

[nybumpkin]

6 hours ago, NE John said:

Based on our experience, I can report that any vessel entering any port has to take orders from the Coast Guard, port pilots, or any port authority: Cunard, container ships, recreational boats - - every ship has to comply.

John, you can add Navy ships to that list, unless they're doing some type of military maneuver. Son is a graduate of the US Merchant Marine Academy and went active duty Navy after graduation, and he's experienced that.

 

I also agree with you about the need for better communication - my experience from the same sailing was that passengers simply didn't know where to go to wait for disembarkation. We waited in the Royal Court Theatre, and there were people there who were told by one person it was the correct place to be and by the next person that they had to leave. Eventually they assigned a staff member to monitor the space and announce luggage tags.

 

I know Cunard tries to do "silent disembarkation," limiting the use of the PA system so as not to disturb the people living in Red Hook. But if they're going to do that, they need to have a better planned method of keeping passengers informed when debarkation doesn't go according to schedule.

[NE John]

1 hour ago, nybumpkin said:

John, you can add Navy ships to that list, unless they're doing some type of military maneuver. Son is a graduate of the US Merchant Marine Academy and went active duty Navy after graduation, and he's experienced that.

 

I also agree with you about the need for better communication - my experience from the same sailing was that passengers simply didn't know where to go to wait for disembarkation. We waited in the Royal Court Theatre, and there were people there who were told by one person it was the correct place to be and by the next person that they had to leave. Eventually they assigned a staff member to monitor the space and announce luggage tags.

 

I know Cunard tries to do "silent disembarkation," limiting the use of the PA system so as not to disturb the people living in Red Hook. But if they're going to do that, they need to have a better planned method of keeping passengers informed when debarkation doesn't go according to schedule.

Successfully graduating from the US Merchant Marine Academy is an underrated achievement. Thank you son for his service. 

[exlondoner]

5 hours ago, NE John said:

One of the problems of the Brooklyn. Cruise Terminal is that US Immigration forces everyone to get off the ship then re-enter via immigration, regardless if you’re leaving the ship or not. That adds to delays. 

I understood that was any US port of entry, not just Brooklyn.

[Pushpit]

38 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

I understood that was any US port of entry, not just Brooklyn.

Correct, it's as per the DHS procedures for any port/airport arrival in the USA, they don't have the concept of international transfers. 

 

Until a few years ago, Air New Zealand had a daily service from London to Auckland, it made a stop in Los Angeles for 90 minutes or so. If going from the UK to NZ you would have to get off at LAX, enter the USA via a CBP officer with your ESTA, technically clear your luggage through customs (admittedly this was streamlined by using photographs), go through security, then immediately go back on to the aircraft, to the same seat you were in, to resume your trip to NZ. Though you were only in the USA for a matter of minutes, you would have to clear the full entry and exit process.

[exlondoner]

I think, other than the immigration shenanigans, the sources of power are much the same at Southampton, except that Carnival are such a major user of the passenger facilities that they may have slightly more influence on the port authorities.

[ballroom-cruisers]

1 hour ago, Pushpit said:

Correct, it's as per the DHS procedures for any port/airport arrival in the USA, they don't have the concept of international transfers. 

 

Until a few years ago, Air New Zealand had a daily service from London to Auckland, it made a stop in Los Angeles for 90 minutes or so. If going from the UK to NZ you would have to get off at LAX, enter the USA via a CBP officer with your ESTA, technically clear your luggage through customs (admittedly this was streamlined by using photographs), go through security, then immediately go back on to the aircraft, to the same seat you were in, to resume your trip to NZ. Though you were only in the USA for a matter of minutes, you would have to clear the full entry and exit process.

 

Am I wrong remembering in the old days that if flying through an airport as a 'transit' passenger, that you got off your aircraft, went into the terminal, but didn't clear customs, and remained a 'transit' passenger air-side only until you got on the plane for your onward journey out of the country?  I used to do a lot of flying in my working days, but I can't remember if in those times you also had to fully come into the USA, even if you were leaving the airport within a short time to leave the USA again?  I certainly remember Redhook being a long-winded painful and seemingly unnecessary several hours to end up being back on the ship for an onward voyage to the Caribbean - though I also remember that, having been 'processed' on the outward voyage, coming back through Redhook, was much quicker and easier, and the ship I seem to remember did not need zeroing on the return trip back to Southampton.

[exlondoner]

UK immigration do their stuff on board, and that is it.

[NE John]

5 hours ago, exlondoner said:

I understood that was any US port of entry, not just Brooklyn.

Correct. I only mentioned Red Hook because of the embarkation issue here. All NYC excursions were canceled that day because of the delay but the ~400 pax who stated on the ship for the Independence cruise had to debark and then re-embark adding to the delays. I would have hoped ICE would grant an exception to the rule there to move things along. 

[exlondoner]

11 minutes ago, NE John said:

Correct. I only mentioned Red Hook because of the embarkation issue here. All NYC excursions were canceled that day because of the delay but the ~400 pax who stated on the ship for the Independence cruise had to debark and then re-embark adding to the delays. I would have hoped ICE would grant an exception to the rule there to move things along. 

That might have spoilt their fun. 🙂

[techteach]

@NE John I appreciate your post. I agree the majority of issues were caused by poor planning on the part of the port. I do wonder how much effort was put into coordination between Cunard and the port. My father used to call it “PPP.” Five hours standing in a line is too long.

 

1 - People arrived when they shouldn’t have. Not Cunard’s fault. But why were people allowed to enter the building at the wrong time.

2 - There were only 2 screening lines for security. There should have been more.

3 - There were two lines for accessing check in. One for Diamond and Platinum and one for everyone else. No line for Grills passengers.

4 - There were no chairs for people while waiting in line. We pulled in chairs on the last line because people were in such bad shape. A man beside us who could barely stand was sent back to the line to go up the escalator rather than use the elevator. 

5 - There was total confusion over the red numbered tags being handed out. Some people received them and some did not. There wasn’t a sound system so announcements could be heard which caused additional confusion and frustration.

6 - Once on board there was reported inadequate food in Kings Court.

7 - I will never forget Nicholas, a port manager, saying, “There are no babies, but there are a lot of cry babies down here.” No one working with the public, especially as a manager, should ever even think, little less say, such words. Totally unprofessional.

 

We will sail with Cunard again, but if I could I would avoid Brooklyn ever again.

 

[NE John]

7 minutes ago, techteach said:

@NE John I appreciate your post. I agree the majority of issues were caused by poor planning on the part of the port. I do wonder how much effort was put into coordination between Cunard and the port. My father used to call it “PPP.” Five hours standing in a line is too long.

 

1 - People arrived when they shouldn’t have. Not Cunard’s fault. But why were people allowed to enter the building at the wrong time.

2 - There were only 2 screening lines for security. There should have been more.

3 - There were two lines for accessing check in. One for Diamond and Platinum and one for everyone else. No line for Grills passengers.

4 - There were no chairs for people while waiting in line. We pulled in chairs on the last line because people were in such bad shape. A man beside us who could barely stand was sent back to the line to go up the escalator rather than use the elevator. 

5 - There was total confusion over the red numbered tags being handed out. Some people received them and some did not. There wasn’t a sound system so announcements could be heard which caused additional confusion and frustration.

6 - Once on board there was reported inadequate food in Kings Court.

7 - I will never forget Nicholas, a port manager, saying, “There are no babies, but there are a lot of cry babies down here.” No one working with the public, especially as a manager, should ever even think, little less say, such words. Totally unprofessional.

 

We will sail with Cunard again, but if I could I would avoid Brooklyn ever again.

 

In other cruise line posts, there are also numerous and harsh complaints about Red Hook. Huge problems reported when the 5,000 pax MSC monster ships arrive in Brooklyn. 
Something needs to change at the Brooklyn Cruise Terminal!!

 

I knew when we left the ship that day at 6:30pm with a long line still behind us things wouldn’t be working out for you guys. Cunard was telling us that restaurants would be open until 10:30. I feel horrible for your experience. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by NE John

[Pushpit]

4 hours ago, ballroom-cruisers said:

Am I wrong remembering in the old days that if flying through an airport as a 'transit' passenger, that you got off your aircraft, went into the terminal, but didn't clear customs, and remained a 'transit' passenger air-side only until you got on the plane for your onward journey out of the country?  

For many places that remains the case, so if flying UK to Australia via Singapore then that's the system, pretty much. If flying to the Caribbean with a transit stop at say St Lucia or Antigua you have to stay on the aircraft. There aren't many one aircraft transit stop routes inside the UK, but Norse have some at Gatwick, and there you stay on the aircraft. If changing aircraft at a international transit stop then in the UK you have to go via a security check, but not passport control (normally) or customs. At Amsterdam, depending on the route, there is no security check, you just walk from one gate to the new gate. But the USA never allowed this no matter what - the only thing was that going back a few decades the security check was much less intense than now.

[techteach]

@NE John Thanks for your supporting post. We’ve discussed before that the real issue is the port authority and that hopefully with MSC entering the game things will change. It was interesting, as we stood waiting for our pre-arranged car, another couple arrived bad mouthing Cunard. The man handling the cars, collecting the booking tickets, etc. really really bad mouthed Cunard and blamed them for everything saying they aren’t paying enough. You would be proud of me because I kept my mouth shut and moved away. It is as you say, things need to change at the port and that is probably not going to happen without politics. (Enjoy a good bottle of wine tonight and I really hope we get to cruise together some day. I think you and my DH would have much to discuss.)

[exlondoner]

10 minutes ago, techteach said:

@NE John Thanks for your supporting post. We’ve discussed before that the real issue is the port authority and that hopefully with MSC entering the game things will change. It was interesting, as we stood waiting for our pre-arranged car, another couple arrived bad mouthing Cunard. The man handling the cars, collecting the booking tickets, etc. really really bad mouthed Cunard and blamed them for everything saying they aren’t paying enough. You would be proud of me because I kept my mouth shut and moved away. It is as you say, things need to change at the port and that is probably not going to happen without politics. (Enjoy a good bottle of wine tonight and I really hope we get to cruise together some day. I think you and my DH would have much to discuss.)

I expect the car man was fed up, because he had to stay late, indeed very late, and Cunard was the nearest thing to blame.

[BklynBoy8]

8 hours ago, exlondoner said:

I understood that was any US port of entry, not just Brooklyn.

 

First Port Back from Halifax was Boston. Had to clear to walk off the ship in Boston.

[BklynBoy8]

2 hours ago, NE John said:

In other cruise line posts, there are also numerous and harsh complaints about Red Hook. Huge problems reported when the 5,000 pax MSC monster ships arrive in Brooklyn. 
Something needs to change at the Brooklyn Cruise Terminal!!

 

I knew when we left the ship that day at 6:30pm with a long line still behind us things wouldn’t be working out for you guys. Cunard was telling us that restaurants would be open until 10:30. I feel horrible for your experience. 

 

John,

We were lucky our Priority Line moved fast and we got to sit in the BC restaurant at 910 with a full 4 course dinner. But when we walked the ship afterwards, it was like a Ghost Ship that night. Passengers on board but Where?

 

Hoping 2025 will be like the old days checking in.

[techteach]

@exlondoner I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. I was disembarking the morning of July 7.

[EvaBME]

1 hour ago, BklynBoy8 said:

We were lucky our Priority Line moved fast and we got to sit in the BC restaurant at 910 with a full 4 course dinner. But when we walked the ship afterwards, it was like a Ghost Ship that night. Passengers on board but Where?

 

And that's a communication problem right there.  I too was on a Priority Line but when we got on the ship, they told us to go to our Muster Station, which was on the 7th floor, King's Court.  The three of us sat there, had something to eat in King's Court and then went to our cabins.  We didn't even know that the BC restaurant was open.

[BklynBoy8]

2 minutes ago, EvaBME said:

And that's a communication problem right there.  I too was on a Priority Line but when we got on the ship, they told us to go to our Muster Station, which was on the 7th floor, King's Court.  The three of us sat there, had something to eat in King's Court and then went to our cabins.  We didn't even know that the BC restaurant was open.

 

We too heard the announcement about the Muster Station having your Ship's Card be scanned.

But since we were very hungry, we dropped the carry on off in the cabin and proceeded to the BC Dining Room. NEJohn told us earlier messaging to each other that the restaurant would be open till 1030. Our M'd in the restaurant told us that were going to serve anyone that was coming in and showed up. 

 

We also heard the announcement again about Muster Station but thought if we had to, we would attend a makeup session tomorrow. Thru the understanding of the mix up going on, we were told that the scanning was not urgent as long as you watched the safety video in the cabin.

 

Believe me, since we last ate at 3PM, we were not going to give up the dinner in BC and was not going to show up at KC and not know what was left. BC opened at their regular time of 630.

 

When we finished dinner, we looked for Station E and there were no staff there to scan cards. 

[techteach]

We boarded at 10:30 to QG. Ran up to our muster station and no one was there. Asked about it and were told to do it the next day, so then hustled over to QG grill and talked Osman into feeding us. We tried to do muster the next morning and were told to go to the Purser. He just checked us off as having done it.