Panama Canal Cruise "Adjusted"

[BillB48]

2 hours ago, FLConnie said:

This is the reason. Doubt anything to do with the cruise lines. We are on Oceania Oct 2023 Miami to LA.   Will be surprised if we get to do that sailing. Cruise ships won’t get priority over cargo ships. 

 

Cruise lines in most cases don't compete with cargo ships in joining the queue.  The Canal has a reservation system all ships are entitled to use and the Canal is strongly encouraging ships to use the system to avoid delays.  The problem is the system doesn't work like Holiday Inn with the reservation being free and no charge if you call by 6PM.  The reservation is pricey and as you might expect it gets even more $$$ the larger the ship.  The Canal also permits cruise lines to make reservations with a much longer lead time than is permitted for cargo ships.  Once a cruise ship has made their reservation they can transit the Canal on a given day within a particular time frame.

 

Since Royal will never disclose why they changed the itinerary so drastically, there are some things that may have entered their thought process.  One of them may have been the terminal at Ft. Amador has turned into a real albatross.  While the pier and breakwater for the facility went in without huge delays the terminal is way overdue.  The pier has been used for visiting cruise ships, but getting passengers checked in for a cruise has been taking place at another offsite facility.  Perhaps NCL's experience with fueling there is an issue, then there was a gangway collapse with passengers boarding a ship. 

 

Short answer I guess is something changed and the stated reason is to enhance our experience!!  Not very creative or believable.

[coaster]

Wonder if they cancelled the canal portion as the ship was underbooked for these sailings. I understand the ship pays the transit taxes based on the number of berths on the ship whether they are occupied or not. Not enough passengers onboard to cover the taxes could of been a reason.

Edited August 10, 2023 by coaster

[FLConnie]

2 minutes ago, coaster said:

Wonder if they cancelled the canal portion as the ship is underbooked for these sailings. I understand the ship pays the transit taxes based on the number of berths on the ship whether they are occupied or not. Not enough passengers onboard to cover the taxes could of been a reason.

From what I read on the RCL board it was for all of 2024 too. 

[coaster]

9 minutes ago, FLConnie said:

From what I read on the RCL board it was for all of 2024 too. 

Early 2024. Pretty sure they know most folks would have to fly to board on this type of sailing and would not get many last minute bookings due to that.

Edited August 10, 2023 by coaster

[orville99]

44 minutes ago, coaster said:

Wonder if they cancelled the canal portion as the ship was underbooked for these sailings. I understand the ship pays the transit taxes based on the number of berths on the ship whether they are occupied or not. Not enough passengers onboard to cover the taxes could have been a reason.

 I believe they changed the way that they set the tariffs on cruise ships from a per berth basis to a mix of either per berth or tonnage and length depending on the passenger capacity and passenger to space ratio of the ship.

[coaster]

3 minutes ago, orville99 said:

 I believe they changed the way that they set the tariffs on cruise ships from a per berth basis to a mix of either per berth or tonnage and length depending on the passenger capacity and passenger to space ratio of the ship.

I understand it is based on tonnage also. Either way, it would seem reasonable that an underbooked ship might not be able to cover the cost no matter how it is calculated. Royal not stating the reason for the cancellation only strengthens my belief. Royal is never going to state a fact like this as it would just add to an uproar from those that booked.

[FLConnie]

1 minute ago, coaster said:

I understand it is based on tonnage also. Either way, it would seem reasonable that an underbooked ship might not be able to cover the cost no matter how it is calculated. Royal not stating the reason for the cancellation only strengthens my belief. Royal is never going to state a fact like this as it would just add to an uproar from those that booked.

It’s not just one cruise. It’s this year and next so can’t believe it would have to do with capacity. Financial reasons seem logical since the one article I posted mentioned loss of revenue for the canal with the low water levels and not as many passing ships through. 

[smokeybandit]

1 hour ago, cruisetorelax44 said:

copa airlines may screw us... non-refundable flights, on an airline where you have to fly to panama city in order to get anywhere else... sigh... let the fighting begin... 

That's why, despite the attractive price, I shied away from booking with them.

[smokeybandit]

10 minutes ago, coaster said:

I understand it is based on tonnage also. Either way, it would seem reasonable that an underbooked ship might not be able to cover the cost no matter how it is calculated. Royal not stating the reason for the cancellation only strengthens my belief. Royal is never going to state a fact like this as it would just add to an uproar from those that booked.

Unpredictability with the drought plus poor sales may well be the double whammy to cancel.

[BillB48]

8 minutes ago, orville99 said:

 I believe they changed the way that they set the tariffs on cruise ships from a per berth basis to a mix of either per berth or tonnage and length depending on the passenger capacity and passenger to space ratio of the ship.

 

You are correct, I think the change went into effect in January 2023.  Previously tolls were based on total passenger berths, occupied or not.  The way the tolls are calculated now is basically how tolls are calculated for all other ships which is based on the volume of the ship.  It is called the Panama Canal Universal Measurement System (PCUMS) which is similar to Gross Tonnage.  Gross Tonnage is the volume of the enclosed spaces, with PCUMS certain enclosed spaces are not counted such as areas necessary for the operation of the ship... engine room, navigation bridge etc.

 

You can still get a guesstimate by multiplying $150 by the passenger capacity.  There is a laundry list of fees that are not actually the tolls, but you won't transit without paying them.

[cruisetorelax44]

13 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

That's why, despite the attractive price, I shied away from booking with them.

it was the only airline that went direct from boston. and it was $450 dollars per flight less expensive than any other airline. so saving $900 for two people, and saving hours and hours of travel time made sense. the refundable fares were 1500 each...

[orville99]

56 minutes ago, coaster said:

I understand it is based on tonnage also. Either way, it would seem reasonable that an underbooked ship might not be able to cover the cost no matter how it is calculated. Royal not stating the reason for the cancellation only strengthens my belief. Royal is never going to state a fact like this as it would just add to an uproar from those that booked.

The cost per transit for a ship like Rhapsody would work out to between $350,000-$450,000.

[cruiselvr04]

6 hours ago, FLConnie said:

This is the reason. Doubt anything to do with the cruise lines. We are on Oceania Oct 2023 Miami to LA.   Will be surprised if we get to do that sailing. Cruise ships won’t get priority over cargo ships. 

I hope you’re wrong.  We sail in about 2 months through the canal.  

[ChinaShrek]

Any chance this could effect Carnival cruises? I am booked on a partial transit out of Tampa in February 2024. Should I expect an itinerary change?

Edited August 10, 2023 by ChinaShrek

[coaster]

36 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

Any chance this could effect Carnival cruises? I am booked on a partial transit out of Tampa in February 2024. Should I expect an itinerary change?

I just can't picture ships being stranded on the west coast and not being able to transit back to the east coast to reposition from Alaska. I would say since you are sailing from a US port, the chances are your sailing is booked to a healthy level and a lower chance of an itinerary change. My gut feeling, but could be wrong if other cruise ships stop their repositioning transits through the canal.

[funtimex2]

Wonder if this is going to effect Radiance of the Sea sailings through Panama Canal?  

[coaster]

17 minutes ago, funtimex2 said:

Wonder if this is going to effect Radiance of the Sea sailings through Panama Canal?  

Think it will all be speculation now.  Royal deciding be upfront and reveal the factor or factors involved even if it is a revenue issue with Rhapsody canal transits being cancelled will help eliminate the uncertainty in regards to their other ships.

Edited August 10, 2023 by coaster

[smokeybandit]

The canceled cruise transits were purely tourism transits. Easier to cut those than the relocation cruises which have a business need to transit.

[coaster]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

The canceled cruise transits were purely tourism transits. Easier to cut those than the relocation cruises which have a business need to transit.

I agree. The bottom line in regards revenue and little or nothing to do with water level issues.

Edited August 10, 2023 by coaster

[BillB48]

1 hour ago, funtimex2 said:

Wonder if this is going to effect Radiance of the Sea sailings through Panama Canal?  

 

Your sailing will go just as planned, if there is any issue it won't be because of the Canal.  While there is concern for the lack of a real rainy season, rains have returned sufficiently for the Canal to not implement any further draft restrictions.  Draft limits were to be reduced for ships using the new locks to 43.5' in mid June.  Rains returned to a level where that limit was not imposed, draft limits are currently 44' for the new locks and 39.5' for the original locks.  Also the Radiance has a reservation for Oct. 17 (if I counted correctly), as long as she is there, she will go.  The Radiance's draft is no where near 39.5' and if the ship isn't in Tampa for the winter that would create a ton more problems.

Edited August 11, 2023 by BillB48

[S.A.M.J.R.]

17 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

I'm guessing that's just boilerplate language for when they cancel a cruise. 

That's what I figured, but if they're cancelling so many cruises, they can't look over the details of the "boilerplate" before issuing it, that's not a good thing IMO. 

[orville99]

13 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

The canceled cruise transits were purely tourism transits. Easier to cut those than the relocation cruises which have a business need to transit.

Absolutely. A ship that is repositioning through the canal uses two slots/year. The cruises that were cancelled would have used one slot/week. At an average cost of ~$400,000/transit, a repo can absorb the cost to sail not quite full, but at 400K/week, the math will never work unless every berth on board is full.

[coaster]

Starting to think that Royal has too many ships now. This itinerary just says 'we got nothing'. These sailings will never fill. Just a matter of predicting when these sailings will be cancelled and not if.

[babyblue78]

I work for a major importer and we just got this notice from one of our carriers... the fact we are getting this notice as it relates to cargo, wanted to share this may be a long-term issue with cruises via the canal.  

 

Three-Week Backlog At Panama Canal

Shippers Advised to Route Cargo Bound For

U.S. East and Gulf Coast Ports Through the Suez Canal

 

Dear Valued Customer, 

 

The drought in the Panama Canal region has gotten progressively worse, forcing the Panama Canal Authority to implement a number of restrictions on the amount of cargo that is allowed to traverse through the canal.

 

These restrictions have caused a three-week backlog of vessels. To date there are more than 154 vessels backed up and waiting for the chance to travel through the canal. Industry officials are predicting that the situation will get much worse.

 

We are advising all clients who typically route their cargo to the U.S. East and Gulf Coast ports through the Panama Canal, to instead route their cargo through the Suez Canal. Also, clients shipping heavy 20-foot containers should avoid shipping through the Panama Canal.

 

Additionally, we are also suggesting that all clients to reach out to their advisors to discuss long-term alternative strategies because, as the EPA states here, this new weather pattern will in all likelihood become permanent.

 

Finally, carriers have stated that they are considering charging a low water fee to pass through the canal. As of now they have not implemented the fee and we will update you should they begin charging the fee.

 

We will continue to monitor this situation and will inform you of any updates as they become available.

[coaster]

Welcome to Colon! Sorry you paid so much to fly here and go on an older ship to places that are much more convenient to go to from a FL departure port.