Upgraded Included Excursions

[lackcreativity]

6 hours ago, photopro2 said:

Until recently, only one example included excursion was shown in the itineraries for each port listed on the website. In the vast majority of cases this information accurately portrayed Viking's offer of the included tour at that particular port. Everyone could be reasonably confident that this inclusion would be available to them in advance of making a booking.

Five years ago (and wow, that really feels like a lifetime ago!) we sailed on the Trade Routes of the Middle Ages itinerary. We probably booked it even a year before that. At booking, the Included Excursion for Zeebruge was a trip to Bruges. Almost immediately after our booking, the website switched to the current Scenic Flanders & Coastal Village of Knokke-Heist.

 

Since each page of excursions has the message: "Shore excursions vary by itinerary and are subject to change." both at the bottom and the top of the page, we just booked the optional trip to Brugges. 

 

When we took our first Viking cruise in 2017, we were supposed to end in Istanbul. Political turmoil caused that port to be dropped weeks before departure, a possibility outlined somewhere in the Terms & Conditions. And of course, we have missed several ports because of weather. Cruising, in fact most forms of travel, benefits from the ability to adapt to change without too much disappointment, because inevitably, something will happen!

 

 

 

 

[photopro2]

9 hours ago, lackcreativity said:

Almost immediately after our booking, the website switched to the current Scenic Flanders & Coastal Village of Knokke-Heist.

That can happen for all sorts of reasons, and I was very careful to say that the tour details were accurate "in the vast majority" though obviously not all cases.

9 hours ago, lackcreativity said:

Cruising, in fact most forms of travel, benefits from the ability to adapt to change without too much disappointment, because inevitably, something will happen!

I totally agree with you, that is certainly the best attitude to have.

My issue here is the reduction in confidence that has arisen over which included tour one will actually be able to book now that Viking sometimes lists more than one in their publicity material. An even greater problem is that there have apparently been cases where the same tour, previously publicised as included, became an optional tour once bookings opened on MVJ. That is effectively a price change and something which is completely under Viking's control.

Edited September 28, 2023 by photopro2

[LinnieRed]

On 9/26/2023 at 5:29 PM, CCWineLover said:

I totally agree with you!  Viking is very above board about everything.  This is NOT a socialist company where everyone is created equal.  They are great however when onboard as everyone, no matter what status can eat and go anywhere.  I never understood all the complaining..🥲

At this specific moment, our cruise in November is being marketed with excursions that show as included that there is a charge for when you book them through my Viking journey. This does not have anything to do with an inability to get the excursions that we want, or in fact, availability and excursions. This is marketing on their website as included and then after you book, they are no longer included. 
The only thing we ask of companies is that they do what they say they’re going to. If you book a cruise with included in excursions, pay tens of thousands of dollars for the cruise and then book your excursions and they are not in fact included, it is classic bait and switch. If this kind of marketing doesn’t bother you, that’s up to you. 
 

this is happening in real time right now. The website shows them as included, if there is a charge for them on my Viking journey.

Edited September 28, 2023 by LinnieRed

[LindaS272]

“Shore excursions vary by each itinerary and are subject to change.”

This is on the top of the Viking cruises web page for each itinerary day on ocean cruises.

 

While you might have hoped a previously advertised “included” excursion would be on your specific cruise, this language shows that excursions “are subject to change.” 
 

We’ve been disappointed a couple of times that some excursions listed on the website don’t end up being on our particular itinerary, but we know that shore excursions can change at any time. Even days before the date—as happened to us on our recent Norway/Iceland cruise on the Saturn when going to Svalbard.

 

 

[LinnieRed]

2 hours ago, LindaS272 said:

“Shore excursions vary by each itinerary and are subject to change.”

This is on the top of the Viking cruises web page for each itinerary day on ocean cruises.

 

While you might have hoped a previously advertised “included” excursion would be on your specific cruise, this language shows that excursions “are subject to change.” 
 

We’ve been disappointed a couple of times that some excursions listed on the website don’t end up being on our particular itinerary, but we know that shore excursions can change at any time. Even days before the date—as happened to us on our recent Norway/Iceland cruise on the Saturn when going to Svalbard.

 

 

My experience in this case is not that I cannot get a shore excursion that I want. Viking is actively marketing shore excursions as included that in fact are not included. They are marketing for  this particular one-off cruise as included but for those of us who are booking the excursion, there are charges attached to them. This is not a disappointment, this is a bait and switch tactic. 
We have made them aware of this, as have others on our cruise, and they remain is included on the marketing section of their website.

Edited September 28, 2023 by LinnieRed

[SantaFe1]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:46 PM, SantaFe1 said:

I just noticed this a minute ago, and think it is very interesting.  Excursions for our Hawaii cruise in February went up last week at 145 days out.  On two of the islands, they had the “extra special” included excursions.  Today at 140 days out( I.e. not even the owners suite can book yet) I see that they are marked sold out.  I sort of think this means they won’t be offered.  But who knows.  It is certainly very curious!

And today those two “suspect” included excursions have been removed completely.  As has the one in Kauai.  

[photopro2]

On 9/28/2023 at 6:09 PM, LindaS272 said:

“Shore excursions vary by each itinerary and are subject to change.”

As you quite rightly say, if the excursions themselves were changed it would indeed be covered by the disclaimer. However as @LinnieRed and others have pointed out, the issue here is not that the excursions are changing in any way.

On the contrary, it seems in some cases the excursions themselves are remaining exactly the same. The only change is Viking's unilateral decision to make a charge for the very same excursion they had originally marketed as being included. 

To my mind that is not a change to the excursion itself, but only a change in the cost to customers for that excursion. I would therefore suggest that the exclusion you quote is not really applicable.

Edited September 29, 2023 by photopro2

[LindaS272]

7 minutes ago, photopro2 said:

The only change is Viking's unilateral decision to make a charge for the very same excursion they had originally marketed as being included. 

So that’s a change to the excursion—which is subject to change. I guess you see what you want to see. I don’t agree with the OPs assessment of this being a “bait & switch” on Viking’s part. There’s always an option to not cruise with Viking.

[SJD117]

1 hour ago, LindaS272 said:

So that’s a change to the excursion—which is subject to change. I guess you see what you want to see. I don’t agree with the OPs assessment of this being a “bait & switch” on Viking’s part. There’s always an option to not cruise with Viking.

Precisely. And for those who haven’t read Viking’s T&Cs, may I suggest that you do so in the context of this discussion.

Like it or not, Viking’s right to change the terms of shore excursions is functionally unlimited. Passengers know or should know this critical fact. To claim bait and switch on Viking’s part ignores the reality of the company’s notice to passengers and reservation of rights, all as reflected in the T&Cs. It’s all there, folks.

[Breckski]

I completely understand that Viking is well within their legal right to advertise multiple excursions as included and then change one of included excursions so that it's not included.

 

Those supporting Viking are taking the pure legal viewpoint.  Buyer beware, there's plenty of other options if you don't like how we do things, etc.  

 

Those expressing their dissatisfaction with Viking are doing so based on their perception of right vs wrong.  Companies should be transparent, not have misleading advertising, etc. 

 

We'll see if Viking gets pushback for this clear change in marketing/operations - like Delta got a bit of pushback this week.  And Delta was much more transparent than Viking is being with their changes.

[LindaS272]

2 minutes ago, mwike said:

Those expressing their dissatisfaction with Viking are doing so based on their perception of right vs wrong.  Companies should be transparent, not have misleading advertising, etc. 

I think those expressing their dissatisfaction have perceived something that they want to see in the marketing. Personally, I think it’s much ado about nothing. We’ll see if Viking responds to complaints, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

[CCWineLover]

6 minutes ago, mwike said:

I completely understand that Viking is well within their legal right to advertise multiple excursions as included and then change one of included excursions so that it's not included.

 

Those supporting Viking are taking the pure legal viewpoint.  Buyer beware, there's plenty of other options if you don't like how we do things, etc.  

 

Those expressing their dissatisfaction with Viking are doing so based on their perception of right vs wrong.  Companies should be transparent, not have misleading advertising, etc. 

 

We'll see if Viking gets pushback for this clear change in marketing/operations - like Delta got a bit of pushback this week.  And Delta was much more transparent than Viking is being with their changes.

So will you mwike, move on then?  Or accept what’s happening?  Plenty of option do exist. Curious what you choose.  Everyy company imho has pluses and minuses. Nothing is perfect.  You have to weigh what’s important to you and this obviously is.  To us it is not that important relative to other things, so we stay.

[SJD117]

2 minutes ago, mwike said:

I completely understand that Viking is well within their legal right to advertise multiple excursions as included and then change one of included excursions so that it's not included.

 

Those supporting Viking are taking the pure legal viewpoint.  Buyer beware, there's plenty of other options if you don't like how we do things, etc.  

 

Those expressing their dissatisfaction with Viking are doing so based on their perception of right vs wrong.  Companies should be transparent, not have misleading advertising, etc. 

 

We'll see if Viking gets pushback for this clear change in marketing/operations - like Delta got a bit of pushback this week.  And Delta was much more transparent than Viking is being with their changes.

Your position is based on a false premise — that Viking’s T&Cs are somehow divorced from what is “right” and “wrong.” Because you adopt such a low opinion of Viking’s notice to customers and reservation of rights, you might seriously consider traveling with another cruise line — although I’ll bet that the other line will have T&C language that’s similar to Viking’s language.

[millybess]

8 minutes ago, mwike said:

I completely understand that Viking is well within their legal right to advertise multiple excursions as included and then change one of included excursions so that it's not included.

 

Those supporting Viking are taking the pure legal viewpoint.  Buyer beware, there's plenty of other options if you don't like how we do things, etc.  

 

Those expressing their dissatisfaction with Viking are doing so based on their perception of right vs wrong.  Companies should be transparent, not have misleading advertising, etc. 

 

We'll see if Viking gets pushback for this clear change in marketing/operations - like Delta got a bit of pushback this week.  And Delta was much more transparent than Viking is being with their changes.

And I completely understand your concern.  Viking also states that their excursions have limited capacity.

 

There are many here who have similar complaints about Viking -- various complaints, in fact.  It really is 6 of 1, half dozen of another IMO.  If you don't like the way Viking does their thing, jump ship.  But I will put up with the LA office and Viking idiosyncrasies before I'll put up with weird things like "medallions" that let you into certain dining venues on certain lines and other so-called loyalty programs that I find more discriminatory and divisive toward passengers.

 

[PasadenaDave]

We are heading out on our third Viking cruise next month.  Previously Istanbul to Venice and the Nile.  We find excursions to be convenient, but like pre-tours and post-tours, the more experience you have the less that you rely on the packaged product.

 

Case in point, next month we arrive in Auckland on day early and stay two nights in Sydney at the end.  We booked our own hotels and we can find our way to and from the airports in these easy to navigate english speaking places.  There are two locations in which the excursions that we want to take are full,  We will take the municipal bus at one location and at another we already booked our entrance ticket and will take a taxi.  Both of these excursions will cost much less than what the ship charges and we will have the flexibility of being on our own time.  I will note that we have plenty of time in the ports so rushing to get back to the ship prior to sailing isn't an issue.

 

When you read blogs of experienced cruisers such as Andy, Clay and Mike and the Kolbs you will understand that with experience comes confidence and you can do an on your own excursion easily.

 

Yes, negotiating places like Istanbul and Cairo after 14 hour flights are easier with Viking staff.  But places such as Auckland, London, Paris are straightforward for anyone who has experience with big airports, actually easier than places such as Newark!

[Redtravel]

Sounds like Viking is competing with Oceania. Oceania simply more gives you a dollar amount to be used to book excursions. There are many choices. I just did this for an upcoming trip.  On Viking, the included excursion is usually ok for a person with no previous experience in a port.  For that reason, I only book Viking to see new places.  Now that Viking is including choices, I may reconsider Viking on some routes.