SBC in lieu of OCAPP gratuities denied

[jonthomas]

Got a quick response from my O contact.

 

He said O keeps this information "internally" and therefore he cannot send it.

 

He also said, this 250 SBC policy has been around for a long time for those silver and up.

They keep it internally so they can grant it at will and not write it in stone. Translation, just another shady practice.  

I say that because not long ago I was fighting an issue that also wasn't written in stone and of course I lost.

We had been told by the Ambassador on the ship, that the 30 day rule also applied post sailing and we counted on it. Got home and tried to use it, only to be asked, where is that in writing. Of course it was nowhere to be found, making me look like I had made it up.

Later I was told a policy like that did exist for a short time, but no longer.

Many things like this are kept internally so O can giveth and O can taketh away and say, what where did you see that?

[CruisingWalter]

3 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

While you are correct that the first line of O contact for most TAs is a dedicated staffer in Miami, that person is usually still in the reservations area - but s/he is a more long serving/knowledgeable rep than you get at the general phone number. 

 

When you work with a cheap or low quality agency, yes, that's what they will get.

 

When you work with a good quality, reputable TA, they are connected with a Business Development Manager whose is a senior member of the national sales team. That one person works directly with the TAs on most anything they need assistance with from setting up group cruises to addressing any issues that require senior management attention. They are not 'dedicated staffers,' in the reservations area. Those are the TAs you want to work with, they can actually get results for most issues. 🙂

[jonthomas]

You may be paying a hefty price for those results, as some of them do not give you rebates.

Middle of the road is best. A reputable agency, well connected with O and a seasoned agent.

[Jancruz]

4 minutes ago, jonthomas said:

You may be paying a hefty price for those results, as some of them do not give you rebates.

Middle of the road is best. A reputable agency, well connected with O and a seasoned agent.

Doesnt look like you have that..

Sorry I didnt see you again on the Alaska cruise..hope you had a great time..

Jancruz1

Edited October 13, 2023 by Jancruz

[Cruzin Terri]

23 minutes ago, Jancruz said:

Doesnt look like you have that..

Sorry I didnt see you again on the Alaska cruise..hope you had a great time..

Jancruz1

Jan,

Can you weigh in whether O is still giving $250 in SBC in lieu of OCAPP when one is Silver or above and gratuities are paid by Oceania.  There are too many different answers here.

Thanks,

Terri

[jonthomas]

1 hour ago, Jancruz said:

Doesnt look like you have that..

Sorry I didnt see you again on the Alaska cruise..hope you had a great time..

Jancruz1

 

Yes I'm sorry too. You very busy.

We had a wonderful time, a great cruise.

As for what I have, I met "Flatbush flier" and was surprised to find out that we deal with the same agency.

The most savy, knowledgeable cruiser I have met thus far.

Very impressive and he gets ALL there is to get.

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 hours ago, CruisingWalter said:

 

When you work with a cheap or low quality agency, yes, that's what they will get.

 

When you work with a good quality, reputable TA, they are connected with a Business Development Manager whose is a senior member of the national sales team. That one person works directly with the TAs on most anything they need assistance with from setting up group cruises to addressing any issues that require senior management attention. They are not 'dedicated staffers,' in the reservations area. Those are the TAs you want to work with, they can actually get results for most issues. 🙂

Actually, yours is the better title for the person I was describing as the “dedicated” type who works with “most TAs” (in whatever department name is official).

Regardless of where their desk is, those dedicated reps/“business development managers” will still need to go to actual managers for approval of most things that may cost O $$$ to do. 
And I stand by my often made comment that (even if someone swears to you that their TA is the “best thing since sliced bread”) folks looking for a good TA to handle O bookings should identify someone who is, at least, a member of O’s Connoisseurs Club and preferably an Elite member who is an O Preferred Partner.

Folks who are looking for a new O TA should look for Travel Agencies with, at least, this type of logo:

 

Those agencies get O results. Even then, folks new to O should also look for specific knowledgeable reps at that TA who do a lot of O sales and have an interpersonal style that works well for the potential customer.

[Flatbush Flyer]

8 hours ago, Jockocruiser said:

@Flatbush Flyer: Per your last two paragraphs…where, pray tell, does one find a list or resource of such recognized experts?

There used to be a TA locator tab on the O website. But that was years ago and it was more a geographic selection of TAs than a ranking of any sort.

Even then, I was (and still am) a big fan of asking O regulars on your cruise(s) who they use and why.

Ask enough and you’ll start hearing a lot of the same handful+\- of Agencies. They’ll all be worth an exploratory call to see if there’s a good “fit” for you and reasonable “deal(s)”

Ask about their experience and O “status.” Seeing a logo like this on their materials/website is a good sign (at least in terms of their O sales/familiarity.

 

 

[Jockocruiser]

@Flatbush Flyer:  I understand that CC isn’t supposed to facilitate travel agent recommendations or solicitation, so I wasn’t looking for specific agency or agent names.  But, booking now and getting advice months later while actually on a cruise is very counterintuitive!  
 

I’m looking for superior knowledge, excellent service, keen insight, and expert advice from accessible agents who don’t have to argue with O's inept reservation and/or sales staff.  And I desire that contact NOW, not after the next cruise!
 

As you’ve confirmed, apparently there are no lists. I have found several preferred and OCC agencies and agents using different search engines, and Boolean search criteria.  I’m anxious to see the results of my search.

[CruisingWalter]

8 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

And I stand by my often made comment that (even if someone swears to you that their TA is the “best thing since sliced bread”) folks looking for a good TA to handle O bookings should identify someone who is, at least, a member of O’s Connoisseurs Club and preferably an Elite member who is an O Preferred Partner.

 

Good thing we work with one of those. 🙂 Though with so many travel partners, their logo list would get a bit messy on a website. 😅

[Flatbush Flyer]

12 hours ago, Jockocruiser said:

….. booking now and getting advice months later while actually on a cruise is very counterintuitive! ….
 

Looking at the bigger (future) picture, I’d call it common sense. 

[jonthomas]

56 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Looking at the bigger (future) picture, I’d call it common sense. 

Hope to meet up with you again. Didn't get to spend much time with you.

[Flatbush Flyer]

9 minutes ago, jonthomas said:

Hope to meet up with you again. Didn't get to spend much time with you.

Just means we need to cruise even more!

What’s your next? We’re doing Bangkok to Tokyo On Riviera in February 2024.

[jonthomas]

42 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Just means we need to cruise even more!

What’s your next? We’re doing Bangkok to Tokyo On Riviera in February 2024.

Yup I agree.

Next is Nov,  20 day TA   BCN to MIA. With 6 more following   into Dec of 2025.

In 2025, pretty much staying on the continent,  can't handle the long flights anymore.

[edgee]

On 10/12/2023 at 6:08 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

This past August/September (2023), I did a “custom” two-segment cruise (SEA-YVR & YVR-LAX) with a single booking number (not marketed as a single “extended voyage”).

 

Curiosity Question: How did that "custom" two segment cruise not violate the PSVA since it sounds like you cruised from Seattle to LA without touching a distant foreign port?

[1985rz1]

6 minutes ago, edgee said:

Curiosity Question: How did that "custom" two segment cruise not violate the PSVA since it sounds like you cruised from Seattle to LA without touching a distant foreign port?

I think Vancouver counts as the needed foreign port, even though it's  not that distant...like Ensenada in Mexico works for California coastal cruises.

Edited October 14, 2023 by 1985rz1

[jonthomas]

4 minutes ago, edgee said:

Curiosity Question: How did that "custom" two segment cruise not violate the PSVA since it sounds like you cruised from Seattle to LA without touching a distant foreign port?

 

We stopped in Ensenada. 

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

 

[jonthomas]

6 minutes ago, edgee said:

Curiosity Question: How did that "custom" two segment cruise not violate the PSVA since it sounds like you cruised from Seattle to LA without touching a distant foreign port?

And yes Vancouver and Victoria as well as prince Rupert,  all Canadian. 

[edgee]

7 minutes ago, jonthomas said:

And yes Vancouver and Victoria as well as prince Rupert,  all Canadian. 

All of that makes no difference. If you start at one U.S. port and return to that same U.S. port that is permitted as long as you go to ANY foreign port. However if you start the cruise at one U.S. port (eg. Seattle)and end at another U.S. port (eg. LA) you must have a stop at a designated "distant" foreign port. No port in Canada or Mexico qualifies AFAIK.

[1985rz1]

8 minutes ago, edgee said:

. No port in Canada or Mexico qualifies AFAIK.

I think you are mistaken.  For example, the LA to LA  cruise stops in Ensenada, Mexico.  The Seattle to Seattle Alaska cruise stops in Victoria, Canada.

Edited October 14, 2023 by 1985rz1

[edgee]

2 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

I think you are mistaken.  For example, the LA to LA  cruise stops in Ensenada.

LA to LA is okay because the stop is at a "nearby" foreign port. Again, cruises leaving one U.S. port and ending in another U.S. port must stop at a "distant" foreign port. I just read the regulation. To be a "distant" foreign port the port must be OUTSIDE of North or Central America and the West Indies with the exception of the ABC islands. 

[1985rz1]

4 minutes ago, edgee said:

LA to LA is okay because the stop is at a "nearby" foreign port. Again, cruises leaving one U.S. port and ending in another U.S. port must stop at a "distant" foreign port. I just read the regulation. To be a "distant" foreign port the port must be OUTSIDE of North or Central America and the West Indies with the exception of the ABC islands. 

How about the Seattle to Seattle Alaska cruise which stops in Victoria?  Guess it's the same.  I understand your question, now.

Edited October 14, 2023 by 1985rz1

[edgee]

5 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

How about the Seattle to Seattle Alaska cruise which stops in Victoria?  Guess it's the same.

No problem because it is round trip Seattle...begins and ends in same U.S. port, so only has to stop at a nearby foreign port. Seattle to LA is different because it begins and ends in different U.S. cities so must touch a "distant" foreign port and there are none anywhere nearby for Pacific Coast cruises....would have to go all the way to Peru to touch a "distant" foreign port. This is why one way Alaskan cruises go from Vancouver to Anchorage or reverse...never Seatle to Anchorage. (Of course exceptions were made right after covid due to Canadian ports being closed.)

Edited October 14, 2023 by edgee

[Flatbush Flyer]

21 minutes ago, edgee said:

Curiosity Question: How did that "custom" two segment cruise not violate the PSVA since it sounds like you cruised from Seattle to LA without touching a distant foreign port?

I had wondered about that possibility (as probably did several others who did those two segments together). However, anywhere we encountered US CBP personnel in Seattle, Vancouver and Astoria, OR, there was no questions, problems or anything other than a welcoming greeting.

In any case, it appears that it is no longer an issue for passengers. Here is the relevant text from the 2019 update of the PVSA regulations:

 

The Passenger Vessel Services Act September 2019
PENALTY FOR PVSA VIOLATIONS
CBP issues monetary penalties to vessel owners and operators for each passenger transported in violation of the PVSA. Vessel owners and operators may submit a petition for relief from these penalties at the port where the penalty was issued. The port may cancel or mitigate the penalty.

Penalty
 * $300 for each passenger transported and landed on or before November 2, 2015.
* $798 for each passenger transported and landed after November 2, 2015.
* Issued to the vessel operator or carrier not the passenger.

[Flatbush Flyer]

17 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

I think you are mistaken.  For example, the LA to LA  cruise stops in Ensenada, Mexico.  The Seattle to Seattle Alaska cruise stops in Victoria, Canada.

This multi-segment cruise was not to/from the same US port. 
In any case, a non-issue.