Villa Vie Residences

[Travel_Around_The_World]

4 hours ago, CanadianKate said:

Perhaps but it wouldn't be ideal. It is too small a ship to have corners to sit in where others won't see you. It is too hard on a ship to get away from everyone, be it crew or fellow passengers. 

One of the things I've thought about when delving into this whole VVR debacle is the idea that there isn't a place one can go to be alone if traveling with a partner. Watching one of the 'life on board' videos reinforced that as well, as he crossed the reception area and was greeted while heading for coffee in the morning. It reminded me of why I used to have breakfast in my suite each morning on Silver Sea. I just wasn't up to being social for as many hours as cruising requires, 

This is totally a personality trait I have; I recognize many others don't feel this way at all. Even at home, there are times I resent the risk of crossing paths with others when I go from my apartment to put garbage down the chute, empty my recycling, or pick up the mail.  These interactions require being a bit social in order to be polite. Most days I don't mind and I do get energy from interacting with others. But some times I get 'done' with social interactions. A neighbour texted me once that there was a parcel outside my door that had been there for a few days and did I want her to hold it for me until I got home. I was home, I just hadn't stepped out of my apartment for 3 days because I didn't feel like seeing people. 
 

Being on a ship with staff increases the number of daily interactions dramatically and makes a day with NO interactions impossible. 

On a regular cruise, hiding out for day(s) in one's cabin is impossible due to cleaning and eating logistics. On a residential cruise it might be slightly more possible, especially if one has a kettle and fridge to help feed oneself. but a desire for a change of view means leaving one's cabin. 

Just thinking all this through, I know my personality makes me a terrible candidate to live on board, unless on board The World, where hiding out for days on end in my home is a possibility. But my bank account eliminates me as a candidate for that option! 

 

The ship is never supposed to be your quiet time place or your living room.

On a cruise ship the ship itself is like the neighborhood you live in. Your quiet time is always within your own "4 walls".

 

That's why VVO is unfit for long term residency. Your quiet space is a tiny cabin which functions as bedroom, living room and work space. 

 

I haven't been on the Star Legend yet, not even when she was with Seaborn, but having been on small luxury ships which are that old and are all suite, a ship like that would have the chance of more success.

You will always have a living and a bedroom, sometimes divided by a wall and sometimes divided with a curtain and a decent sized bathroom. 

 

If I ever would have started a venture like that I most definitely would have looked into buying an old all-suite former luxury cruise ship. 

It might have cost a little more but you usualy get what you pay for. 

 

The Star Legend cost 87 Mill to build, that's about 200 Mill in today's dollars. She was completely refurbished in 2001 to 2002 for 84 Mill BUT that also included lengthening. 

 

If you don't lengthen the ship you probably could get away with under 100 Mill (purchase and refurbishment). Maybe our ship expert can add to that.

 

Buying or building a cruise ship is a future investment. It takes a few years until it pays off. That holds more true when it is a new venture. You have to establish yourself first. 

 

The best way is always to get the investment dollars for the purchase, refurbishment and a year to two of covering low occupancy before you even think of getting into the business of offering residential cruising. 

 

It is a high risk investment but there are enough people out there who can afford it and love high risk/possible high rewards. 

 

A ship like the Star Legend would have been a much better investment and would have a better chance to be profitable after a couple years.

[gkbiiii]

The key point, is the Luxury Residential Concept, is based on most owners spending between 90-120 days aboard annually.  Mentioned in both companies sale's brochures, is that most owners have two-three trips a year on the vessel.  Therefore, the vessel is yet another, "second or third home."

[Travel_Around_The_World]

29 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

The key point, is the Luxury Residential Concept, is based on most owners spending between 90-120 days aboard annually.  Mentioned in both companies sale's brochures, is that most owners have two-three trips a year on the vessel.  Therefore, the vessel is yet another, "second or third home."

That goes without saying. but even for middle class people it should be a second home. There are enough middle class people lr middle income retirees with secondary homes here in Florida. This would be your customer target: Middle class people who love cruising enough so they are willing to spend 200k to 300k in a suite rather than a condo or small house in Florida. 
Your target should never be the customers who have to sell everything landbased in order to afford a cabin or a suite. 

[gkbiiii]

2 minutes ago, Travel_Around_The_World said:

That goes without saying. but even for middle class people it should be a second home. There are enough middle class people lr middle income retirees with secondary homes here in Florida. This would be your customer target: Middle class people who love cruising enough so they are willing to spend 200k to 300k in a suite rather than a condo or small house in Florida. 
Your target should never be the customers who have to sell everything landbased in order to afford a cabin or a suite. 

The problem is for Middle Class people, you really need at least an Upper-Middle Class income, to afford the $100,000-$500,000+ annual dues! 

[gkbiiii]

I should note, even on the "VV rust bucket," your monthly costs are near $10,000+ or higher: thus well over $100,000++ annually.  Its like buying a copier, where the copier is cheap, but the toner will bleed you dry.  "If a boat is a hole in the water, you throw money into;" then what do you call a 30 year old cruise ship?

[Travel_Around_The_World]

1 hour ago, gkbiiii said:

I should note, even on the "VV rust bucket," your monthly costs are near $10,000+ or higher: thus well over $100,000++ annually.  Its like buying a copier, where the copier is cheap, but the toner will bleed you dry.  "If a boat is a hole in the water, you throw money into;" then what do you call a 30 year old cruise ship?

VVR is overpriced for what they are offering. 
Not sure if it is 10k plus though. 
 

[sandiego1]

5 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

I should note, even on the "VV rust bucket," your monthly costs are near $10,000+ or higher: thus well over $100,000++ annually.  Its like buying a copier, where the copier is cheap, but the toner will bleed you dry.  "If a boat is a hole in the water, you throw money into;" then what do you call a 30 year old cruise ship?

The least expensive for a couple is $5K/month for an inside or $7K/month for window (plus purchase cost of $100-150K) up front. 
 

Living in Southern California, those monthly fees are a bargain!! Definitely cost more than that for food, HOA fees, RE taxes, etc. However, the cabins are just too small for me. 

[gkbiiii]

14 minutes ago, sandiego1 said:

The least expensive for a couple is $5K/month for an inside or $7K/month for window (plus purchase cost of $100-150K) up front. 
 

Living in Southern California, those monthly fees are a bargain!! Definitely cost more than that for food, HOA fees, RE taxes, etc. However, the cabins are just too small for me. 

I was looking primarily at balconies and suites. 

[CoastguardKitKat]

Looks like it’s a leisurely cruise to save fuel and port fees.

 

Yesterday evening Costa Diadema left Malaga and steamed at 20 knots (full cruise speed) to arrive in Casablanca at 07:30 this morning. Odyssey left Malaga about an hour later and is shuffling along at 7.5kn (third speed), due in Casablanca tomorrow.
 

Both ships are capable of the same cruise speed. 

 

Casablanca was to be a two day stop for Odyssey, and apparently they cut it to only 1 day to - - - catch up on time. Mmm.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, CoastguardKitKat said:

Both ships are capable of the same cruise speed.

Even before lengthening, Odyssey could not do 20 knots, and now has a top speed of 17 knots.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Yes- in stretching the vessel- this cause issue for the AC and plumbing.  The AC has to work harder.  The vacuum toilets have to work harder.  Unless you upgrade the systems when stretching a vessel- it going to have less power across the ship.  5000 extra tons was an additional 20% to the vessel.  

[chengkp75]

5 hours ago, rebeccalouiseagain said:

Yes- in stretching the vessel- this cause issue for the AC and plumbing.  The AC has to work harder.  The vacuum toilets have to work harder.  Unless you upgrade the systems when stretching a vessel- it going to have less power across the ship.  5000 extra tons was an additional 20% to the vessel.  

I doubt that.  Fred Olsen would not have done that.  Anyway, when you add 31 meters in length to the passenger areas, you add 31 meters in length to the engineering spaces (the engineering spaces on cruise ships run the entire length of the ship), and you have plenty of room to add an additional AC chiller, and another vacuum toilet system (most ships, even ones as small as Odyssey, will have multiple vacuum systems handling dedicated areas of the ship).  Also, you do know that the increase in Gross Tons of 5000, is not the weight of the addition, any more than 25,000 GT is the weight of the ship?  Gross Tonnage is a measure, and a variable one at that, that measures the interior volume of the ship, not it's weight.  The ship's displacement is the weight of the ship.  For Odyssey, I would estimate the displacement as being 15,000-17,000 metric tons.  

 

As for less power across the ship, there are 4 diesel generators, in addition to the 4 diesels that power the propulsion, and she would only run 2 at a time, in most cases, so even if they increased the power demand by 33%, they would only need to run 3 generators, and still have the 4th as standby and for overhaul.  So, no, no reduction in power across the ship.

 

What did happen is that the power required to push the ship's displacement (which increased when they lengthened it) increased, but because she is a strictly diesel powered propulsion, not diesel electric like other cruise ships, the power available remained the same.  Less power per ton means slower speed.  A diesel electric cruise ship would just run another diesel generator to provide more power to propulsion.  Odyssey can't do that.

[S4POPO]

I have been catching up on multiple pages of postings and I am baffled.  What I don't understand is why people continue taking these risks with unproven companies.  There are multiple "around-the-world" cruise options on credible cruise lines that range from 3-6 months in length.  Many times at a lower cost than these start-ups.

 

If you truly want to sell your house and live on a ship, you can do that today.  Create your own itinerary, hop between cruise lines, get off for a while and spend time with family/friends, etc.

 

What am I missing?  I apologize ahead of time, as it's not my intention to hijack this thread.

[UKCruiseJeff]

1 hour ago, S4POPO said:

I have been catching up on multiple pages of postings and I am baffled.  What I don't understand is why people continue taking these risks with unproven companies.  There are multiple "around-the-world" cruise options on credible cruise lines that range from 3-6 months in length.  Many times at a lower cost than these start-ups.

 

If you truly want to sell your house and live on a ship, you can do that today.  Create your own itinerary, hop between cruise lines, get off for a while and spend time with family/friends, etc.

 

What am I missing?  I apologize ahead of time, as it's not my intention to hijack this thread.

 

The answer is that you are thinking logically and many people (not all people)  choose their paths emotionally.

 

Once their mind tells them that they really want to do something then human nature retrofits the positive factors to support the outcome  their heart wishes to pursue, and filters away any contra-evidence.  When it weighs the factors it will also ascribe higher importance on the supportive considerations and lower importance on the negative ones. 

 

In effect people prefer self delusion so that they can then justify using skewed logic that contradicts a sensible decision. 

 

We all do this from time to time but is is mostly subconscious and some recognise the challenge and use methods,mechanisms and disciplines to minimise the likelihood and minimise the risks.

 

Jeff

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:42 PM by UKCruiseJeff

[as3369]

2 hours ago, S4POPO said:

I have been catching up on multiple pages of postings and I am baffled.  What I don't understand is why people continue taking these risks with unproven companies.  There are multiple "around-the-world" cruise options on credible cruise lines that range from 3-6 months in length.  Many times at a lower cost than these start-ups.

 

If you truly want to sell your house and live on a ship, you can do that today.  Create your own itinerary, hop between cruise lines, get off for a while and spend time with family/friends, etc.

 

What am I missing?  I apologize ahead of time, as it's not my intention to hijack this thread.

The only reason I would consider a "residential ship" is to bring my cats along.  

[gkbiiii]

4 hours ago, as3369 said:

The only reason I would consider a "residential ship" is to bring my cats along.  

 But no dogs?

[as3369]

46 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

 But no dogs?

Not for me but I'm not opposed to someone else having them.  I guess the ship would have to have a Dog Park to accommodate them, unlike a cat that stays in the cabin

  

[MacMadame]

Why would people pick VVR instead of cobbling together their own world cruise?

 

Convenience, for one. Hitting the ports they want in a reasonable order for another. If you put together your own version, you have to load and unload all your stuff every time you change ships and you might even have to change cabins between segments on a B2B. You. may have to transport your stuff to a different city if the string of cruises

 

You also may miss some ports you want to see and duplicate others, especially if you switch lines periodically.

 

As for the expense, I don't think taking a World cruise and/or a series of cruises would be cheaper than an inside cabin on VVR. At $5000 a month, that's $166.67 a day / $185.19 if you include the $100,000 buy-in amortized over 15 years. The Panama Canal cruise we're taking next year costs $311.25 a day for an inside cabin. 

 

As for having cats in a small space, many cats would be fine with that, especially older cats. The only issue I would have is that my cats have a catio and open windows. If I brought a cat on this trip, I would have to have a balcony cabin that I'd turn into a catio with some netting. And that makes the whole thing more expensive. And I would have to be allowed to put my cat on a leash and take it for a walk on the ship's deck (which I don't think VV allows).

[Jadeartfx]

 

[S4POPO]

9 minutes ago, MacMadame said:

Why would people pick VVR instead of cobbling together their own world cruise?

 

Convenience, for one. Hitting the ports they want in a reasonable order for another. If you put together your own version, you have to load and unload all your stuff every time you change ships and you might even have to change cabins between segments on a B2B. You. may have to transport your stuff to a different city if the string of cruises

 

You also may miss some ports you want to see and duplicate others, especially if you switch lines periodically.

 

As for the expense, I don't think taking a World cruise and/or a series of cruises would be cheaper than an inside cabin on VVR. At $5000 a month, that's $166.67 a day / $185.19 if you include the $100,000 buy-in amortized over 15 years. The Panama Canal cruise we're taking next year costs $311.25 a day for an inside cabin. 

 

As for having cats in a small space, many cats would be fine with that, especially older cats. The only issue I would have is that my cats have a catio and open windows. If I brought a cat on this trip, I would have to have a balcony cabin that I'd turn into a catio with some netting. And that makes the whole thing more expensive. And I would have to be allowed to put my cat on a leash and take it for a walk on the ship's deck (which I don't think VV allows).

I appreciate the feedback, and the convenience part does make sense.  However, does anyone really think VV will be around for 15 years for you to amortize the upfront cost?

 

Also, ATW/grand voyages are more affordable than you think.  Here are some that I pulled up as an example:

 

-HAL (56-day Tales of the South Pacific): $10,939 PP for an inside ($195 pppd)

-Princess (116-Day World Cruise - Roundtrip Los Angeles): $20,606 PP for an inside ($178 pppd)

-Celebrity (19-Day Tahitian Treasures): $2,441 PP for an inside ($128 pppd)

-Carnival (29-Day Alaska & Japan Transpacific): $3,653 PP for an inside ($126 pppd)

-NCL (25-Day Panama Canal: Mexico & Alaska): $3,204 PP for an inside ($128 pppd)

-Royal (24-Day Transpacific): $2,444 PP for an inside ($102 pppd)

-Oceania (200-Day ATW): $54,899 PP for an inside ($274 pppd)

-Viking (138-Day World Cruise): $68,995 PP for a balcony ($500 pppd)

-Regent (168-day Navigate the World): $101,099 PP for balcony ($602 pppd)

 

These are all-in prices and I added gratuities where applicable.  I also added some higher end options for comparison.

[gkbiiii]

I am a Adult Onset, Type 1 Diabetic which has a Diabetic Dog, Black Pug GiGi, who has been on many cruises, long flights, and resort hotels.  I use a insulin pump, with Humulin RU 500 insulin, which is 5X potency and is constantly monitored by the Dexcom G6 system.  The dog is needed, due to the fact the connectivity onboard vessels is spotty at best: the problem with low glucose levels, including sleeping, will cause me to go into a coma.

 

This is one of the reasons from the beginning, was a red flag as to me continuing with VV.  At one time, I was assured this was possible and yet they failed to keep there word. The anti-dog people, need to give it a rest.  

[gkbiiii]

BBC | The Never-Ending Cruise Story

Villa Vie Residences

 

Odd VV, seems to think this is some sort of advertisement for them?

[Travel_Around_The_World]

3 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

BBC | The Never-Ending Cruise Story

Villa Vie Residences

 

Odd VV, seems to think this is some sort of advertisement for them?

Pretty much the same people who are usually from "happy-go-lucky" cult.

[gkbiiii]

A company could make a ton of money, by marketing a pet friendly ship, with an onboard veterinarian. Then there would be options for all interested. 

[gkbiiii]

So Jeff, your current video says that the Main Dining Room is ONLY open two days a week.  So, the residents are eating three meals a day at the Buffet?  If so, that's a true "Luxury Experience, on the High Seas!"  Perhaps VV is like NCL, which wants to push you to Specialty Dining?  I did like the menu they sent to me, seems a good deal for $35.