Gratuities

[Jim_Iain]

3 hours ago, daybrake said:

We took tip envelopes and paper with us on the cruise and wrote each person a note thanking them and complimenting them for their outstanding service.  Do these individual notes also get shared at the morning meeting to earn them extra benefits? 

 

Unfortunately not.   They of course will receive it and read it themselves but the only time they receive the rewards from management is when you send either a note or fill out the attention to detail form which goes to the Hotel Director.

[RichYak]

33 minutes ago, Bullswood said:

But does any half-moral customer believe that the lower brand Celebrity & RCL fixed/ auto billed gratuities are really discretionary when they’re well known to be fundamental to getting US employed service staff in all sectors (except airlines for some reason) up to a decent living wage. Obviously the Aussie authorities don’t think so if they require inclusion in the basic advertised  price.

I'm going to disengage here as I have no interest in debating local tipping customs, nor am I interested in discussing how my morality rates on your scale of 0 to Australian.

[LB_NJ]

5 hours ago, Bullswood said:

Why does RCL’s Silversea include gratuities in cruise price? Does this ensure better service than pseudo- discretionary as that seems very counter-intuitive. I remember Carnival ceo Micky Ariston being asked to explain

US tipping culture on UK tv some years ago and explaining that it ensured an “ exceptional service”. BS of course as it’s simply to move service expense from a fixed cost to a variable cost, so no customers=no staff costs.

 

I’m from Australia so it makes no difference to us as all RCL group cruises booked from here have to do likewise under our “price you see is the price at which you can buy” rules. 

 

In the US I think having the gratuities separate from the cabin cost is the same reason hotels are now doing "resort fees."  It is a way of making the price look cheaper than it really is.  

 

I believe that if too many people opted out they would just make it mandatory.

 

 

[CruiseDad-NYC]

People here seem to think that if you remove the "gratuities" that have been billed to your account - which the cruiseline freely allows you to do - that the hardworking staff do not got paid and have worked for free.  That is simply not true.  The hardworking staff are paid a guaranteed amount by contract.  The cruiseline uses the "gratuities" to pay the staff salaries.  If the amount of the "gratuities" does not meet the amount budgeted for crew salaries, the cruiseline makes up the difference.  If it exceeds it, the extra amount go into a bonus pool pursuant to which staff can make a little extra - not much.

 

If you really want to pay a "gratuity" (i.e., a paid recognition of good service) pay the individual in cash.  It is up to you whether you want to pay the optional cruiseline gratuities to your account, and if you wish to pay them and reduce the cruiselines' obligations to pay the crew, you should feel free to do so.  But, the crew get paid the same either way. They are not not paid if you don't pay them.  It is a money grab by the cruise line.  If you really want to reward crew for good service, pay them directly.  They will receive this money in addition to their contracted salary.

[Bullswood]

23 minutes ago, RichYak said:

I'm going to disengage here as I have no interest in debating local tipping customs, nor am I interested in discussing how my morality rates on your scale of 0 to Australian.

I think you misunderstood - my point was that any decent person, whether American, Aussie or any other, wouldn't and shouldn't demur at the fixed gratuity on a cruise and that the truly "reasonable-to-exercise" discretion is whether to tip on top of that, so why not just include &/or rename gratuities as a compulsory service charge. As you say, it's a long-standing custom and unlikely to change but as an outside observer, I think it's fair to say from my recent visits that the extent and level of expected tipping does seem to have become the subject of debate within the U.S., as for example in this New Yorker article:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/01/has-gratuity-culture-reached-a-tipping-point

 

I much prefer to have basic service charges, taxes, resort fees etc. included as 1) I think it's more honest and 2) I know that no-one is going to do the staff out of their due rewards (as my Aussie countrymen might well do through ignorance if they aren't aware of how certain cruise staff are so inadequately remunerated in their basic salaries).

[the penguins]

40 minutes ago, CruiseDad-NYC said:

People here seem to think that if you remove the "gratuities" that have been billed to your account - which the cruiseline freely allows you to do - that the hardworking staff do not got paid and have worked for free.  That is simply not true.  The hardworking staff are paid a guaranteed amount by contract.  The cruiseline uses the "gratuities" to pay the staff salaries.  If the amount of the "gratuities" does not meet the amount budgeted for crew salaries, the cruiseline makes up the difference.  If it exceeds it, the extra amount go into a bonus pool pursuant to which staff can make a little extra - not much.

 

If you really want to pay a "gratuity" (i.e., a paid recognition of good service) pay the individual in cash.  It is up to you whether you want to pay the optional cruiseline gratuities to your account, and if you wish to pay them and reduce the cruiselines' obligations to pay the crew, you should feel free to do so.  But, the crew get paid the same either way. They are not not paid if you don't pay them.  It is a money grab by the cruise line.  If you really want to reward crew for good service, pay them directly.  They will receive this money in addition to their contracted salary.

wow.

1) I believe we all know that the cruise gets a basic wage.

2) the auto tips are additional.

3) X does not keep any of the tip money it is all distributed to the crew that are part of the auto grats system as per the schedule posted.

4) it's impossible to individually tip all the people covered by auto grats - for example the laundry staff or the restroom cleaners.

5) if you don't think these tips are important to the crew if you have Select Dining watch what happens when when you arrive at the table. The Crew member escorting you from the Check In Desk has a "slip of paper" which serves two functions: 1 to get you to the correct table, 2 as a receipt for the waiter to confirm the tips due. If the waiter isn't handed the slip just watch how quickly they go back to the check in desk to get a copy as it's the only way they can check they have received the correct tips.

6} Another duty for the Check in Staff is to make sure that guests are spread fairly around the tables so each table team gets as close as possible to an equal share of that nights tips. During the restart when passenger numbers were low this "balancing" was even more important and one way they achieved it was to give waiters whole days off so the waiters working had full tables. 

[the penguins]

On 1/18/2024 at 2:31 PM, Cruisenewbie20181 said:

If I already prepaid gratuities why is an additional gratuity added to specialty dining cost? Is the extra gratuity shared just amongst the staff in the specialty restaurant? Who shares the prepaid gratuity of $18.00 per day?

Hi I know this thread has strayed a little from your original request but hopefully my Post 36 has answered your question by showing where your $18 goes.

[georgiaguy]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:26 AM, CruiseDad-NYC said:

If it exceeds it, the extra amount go into a bonus pool pursuant to which staff can make a little extra - not much.

 

I could be wrong, but when I worked for Celebrity in a non-tipping position, the tipped staff actually made more than I did typically after gratuities. Maybe things have drastically changed and I would agree this is not how people should get paid but the fact remains that I made less than tipped staff so in this case it might actually work in tipped staff’s favor.

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, georgiaguy said:

 

I could be wrong, but when I worked for Celebrity in a non-tipping position, the tipped staff actually made more than I did typically after gratuities. Maybe things have drastically changed and I would agree this is not how people should get paid but the fact remains that I made less than tipped staff so in this case it might actually work in tipped staff’s favor.

 

This has been the norm in a lot of the restaurant business in the US. The front of the house staff do better because of tips than most of the back of the house staff that are on some version of full pay. There were some changes to the law over the last few years that allows back of the house staff to share in mandatory tip pools, but only if the business doesn't take a "tip credit".

 

The tipped employees themselves frequently don't want the system to change.

[georgiaguy]

31 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

This has been the norm in a lot of the restaurant business in the US. The front of the house staff do better because of tips than most of the back of the house staff that are on some version of full pay. There were some changes to the law over the last few years that allows back of the house staff to share in mandatory tip pools, but only if the business doesn't take a "tip credit".

 

The tipped employees themselves frequently don't want the system to change.

 Of course. I don't disagree. I was more disagreeing that very little of the tips go to the staff.

[the penguins]

On 1/19/2024 at 4:26 PM, CruiseDad-NYC said:

People here seem to think that if you remove the "gratuities" that have been billed to your account - which the cruiseline freely allows you to do - that the hardworking staff do not got paid and have worked for free.  That is simply not true.  The hardworking staff are paid a guaranteed amount by contract.  The cruiseline uses the "gratuities" to pay the staff salaries.  If the amount of the "gratuities" does not meet the amount budgeted for crew salaries, the cruiseline makes up the difference.  If it exceeds it, the extra amount go into a bonus pool pursuant to which staff can make a little extra - not much.

 

If you really want to pay a "gratuity" (i.e., a paid recognition of good service) pay the individual in cash.  It is up to you whether you want to pay the optional cruiseline gratuities to your account, and if you wish to pay them and reduce the cruiselines' obligations to pay the crew, you should feel free to do so.  But, the crew get paid the same either way. They are not not paid if you don't pay them.  It is a money grab by the cruise line.  If you really want to reward crew for good service, pay them directly.  They will receive this money in addition to their contracted salary.

where is your evidence that the "extra amount goes into a bonus pool"

X's breakdown clearly shows how the money is allocated. When passenger numbers are low the tips are less, when numbers are high for example Christmas and Holiday season tips are more. The basic pay remains the same for the duration of a crew members contract. Each cruise is a cost centre with no money carrying over to the next. Princess operate a system where tips are collected across the fleet and then divided amongst the staff X does not.

X also has a welfare type scheme that supports the crew in other ways and one of the main sources of income for that is the money X gets from recycling things like glass and plastic. All the money raised (again on a ship by ship basis) goes to a fund that is administered by a crew committee. We have been privileged to attend a crew party where prizes (including flight tickets and apple i pods) paid for out of the fund were won.

Finally to be totally clear.

Tipping over and above the auto grats is a personal choice.

To remove the auto grats will result in some crew members taking home less pay.

If you reduce auto grats the totals listed are simply reduced by the same proportion so everyone loses - you can't for example reduce the room stewards amount and keep everything else the same.

If you don't like the system you are free to choose another cruise line but please don't penalise the crew.