Fred to Stop Smoking on Balconies at Last?

[tring]

I have no first hand knowledge of this, but it is reported elsewhere that it is to be stopped this April. 

 

The new CEO will be starting very soon, (1st Feb at the latest apparently).  I wonder what other changes will happen as time goes by now.

 

Edited January 24 by tring

[Eglesbrech]

I think that will make many more people happy than those who object to the change.

 

That said short term they may lose bookings from smokers who booked in good faith and paid for a balcony just so they could actually smoke.

 

Yes it will indeed be interesting to see just what else might change.

[JoJo1947]

On 1/24/2024 at 11:20 PM, tring said:

I have no first hand knowledge of this, but it is reported elsewhere that it is to be stopped this April. 

 

The new CEO will be starting very soon, (1st Feb at the latest apparently).  I wonder what other changes will happen as time goes by now.

 

Hope so as that's what put me off  booking a balcony.

[Coravel]

I will be very happy when smoking on balconies is no longer allowed.  We recently had a junior suite on the Bollette but couldn't use the balcony because the person in the cabin next to us chain smoked.  Whenever we opened the balcony door our cabin would fill up with smoke.  Fortunately my wife's twin sister had a junior suite on the opposite side so we were able to share her balcony when the weather was suitable.

Edited January 27 by Coravel

[JoJo1947]

Had it confirmed today it's definitely happening that from April smoking will be prohibited on balcony cabins. 🎉

[twotravellersLondon]

41 minutes ago, JoJo1947 said:

Had it confirmed today it's definitely happening that from April smoking will be prohibited on balcony cabins. 🎉

 

Interesting to know how it has been confirmed.

[Eglesbrech]

1 hour ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

Interesting to know how it has been confirmed.

If anyone was booking today this is still the answer in the FAQ on the official website.
 

I didn't even realise they allowed vapes inside a cabin. As a non smoker I’ll be very glad to see it go in any type of cabin but for smokers it will be a different matter. A case for taking screen shots of web pages.

 

“We operate a strict ‘no smoking’ policy in all inside areas. Smoking will only be permitted on cabin balconies (excluding Terrace Balconies on Bolette and Borealis), and in designated open deck areas.

Electronic cigarettes that don't emit vapour, may be used in cabins or on cabin balconies but are not permitted in any non-smoking public areas. They can easily be mistaken for real cigarettes, which may result in an unnecessary confrontation that requires staff intervention. Electronic cigarettes emitting any vapour - even water vapour - may only be smoked in designated external smoking areas.

Please ask a member of staff for the designated smoking areas when you board your ship”

[tring]

2 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

Interesting to know how it has been confirmed.

 

I do not wish to mention my source, but certainly one which I would consider very reliable or I would not have reported it here in the first place.  I am pretty sure the dates mentioned were after the WC on 17th April for Borealis and much nearer the beginning of the month for the others.

 

I do not believe there is anything secretive about it, so Fred may well confirm that if you wish to ask.  I should think he will be wanting to inform people booked in those cabins pretty soon, (if not already), since balance payment dates will have already passed for those earlier cruises, if those dates are to be adherred to.

 

We will see.

 

 

 

Edited January 30 by tring

[Eglesbrech]

@tring the fire risk angle has always been something I wondered about. 
 

I agree these dates are very close. Someone booking online today (reading the FAQs above) could be told in a few weeks that this change has happened.

[twotravellersLondon]

1 minute ago, Eglesbrech said:

@tring the fire risk angle has always been something I wondered about. 
 

I agree these dates are very close. Someone booking online today (reading the FAQs above) could be told in a few weeks that this change has happened.

 

What is interesting is that smoking is allowed on balconies is in FOCLs T&Cs and the contract that cruises have with FOCLs is based on those T&Cs at the point that the contract becomes effective... that's after any necessary "cooling off" period.

 

So if there are any changes in whether or not smoking is allowed on balconies... and we would certainly prefer that smoking wasn't allowed on any balcony... we will watch with interest to see how FOCLs deal with the possibility of disgruntled smokers who have paid expensive for a balcony smoking area that, if these so far unsubstantiated rumours being spread are confirmed by FOCLs, there will be what many people who have already booked cruises will regard as a significant change to their already booked accommodation.

 

It's also very odd that, if these rumours are true, the changes in policy have come about just before the newly appointed CEO, Samantha Stimpson, arrives in time for 1 February 2024... although there is no indication on her Linkedin account that she has joined FOCLs as yet, Pete Deer's profile has recently been significantly changed.

 

Future cruisers up in arms about T&Cs and what they believe to be "significant" changes is hardly what a newly appointed CEO what's to deal with her first day on the job. 

 

We'll watch and wait to see what happens with interest!

 

[JoJo1947]

2 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

What is interesting is that smoking is allowed on balconies is in FOCLs T&Cs and the contract that cruises have with FOCLs is based on those T&Cs at the point that the contract becomes effective... that's after any necessary "cooling off" period.

 

So if there are any changes in whether or not smoking is allowed on balconies... and we would certainly prefer that smoking wasn't allowed on any balcony... we will watch with interest to see how FOCLs deal with the possibility of disgruntled smokers who have paid expensive for a balcony smoking area that, if these so far unsubstantiated rumours being spread are confirmed by FOCLs, there will be what many people who have already booked cruises will regard as a significant change to their already booked accommodation.

 

It's also very odd that, if these rumours are true, the changes in policy have come about just before the newly appointed CEO, Samantha Stimpson, arrives in time for 1 February 2024... although there is no indication on her Linkedin account that she has joined FOCLs as yet, Pete Deer's profile has recently been significantly changed.

 

Future cruisers up in arms about T&Cs and what they believe to be "significant" changes is hardly what a newly appointed CEO what's to deal with her first day on the job. 

 

We'll watch and wait to see what happens with interest!

 

Not a rumour as I had confirmed today 

[twotravellersLondon]

39 minutes ago, JoJo1947 said:

Not a rumour as I had confirmed today 

 

We've seen nothing, despite a request, to confirm or deny and there's no sign, as far as we can see on the FOCLs site. So exactly who has confirmed this unsubstantiated rumour. Why on earth is nobody but nobody said where it came from. What's the great secret? If it's a reliable source surely we should all be able to know exactly who is originally spreading this tale. The very secrecy is the cause for concern, doubt and the lack of creditability.

 

So how can you confirm it? Who told you (name names), where did you read  it (precise links) , where is the information published... and if you have them why not share the web links with us all... so that we can look at the source and make up our own minds.

Edited January 30 by twotravellersLondon

[tring]

5 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

What is interesting is that smoking is allowed on balconies is in FOCLs T&Cs and the contract that cruises have with FOCLs is based on those T&Cs at the point that the contract becomes effective... that's after any necessary "cooling off" period.

 

So if there are any changes in whether or not smoking is allowed on balconies... and we would certainly prefer that smoking wasn't allowed on any balcony... we will watch with interest to see how FOCLs deal with the possibility of disgruntled smokers who have paid expensive for a balcony smoking area that, if these so far unsubstantiated rumours being spread are confirmed by FOCLs, there will be what many people who have already booked cruises will regard as a significant change to their already booked accommodation.

 

It's also very odd that, if these rumours are true, the changes in policy have come about just before the newly appointed CEO, Samantha Stimpson, arrives in time for 1 February 2024... although there is no indication on her Linkedin account that she has joined FOCLs as yet, Pete Deer's profile has recently been significantly changed.

 

Future cruisers up in arms about T&Cs and what they believe to be "significant" changes is hardly what a newly appointed CEO what's to deal with her first day on the job. 

 

We'll watch and wait to see what happens with interest!

 

 

I would agree that stopping smoking on balconies would leave anyone who has booked a balcony as they wanted to smoke there entitled to a refund, plus compensation as well.  Presumably Fred has considered that and decided the lack of smoking will help with booking those cabins - or will there be some tweaking of the plans.  jojo1947 seems to have had a firm confirmation of it now though.  I have better things to do than ring Fred about this myself, must admit. 

 

I have also seen people in the past complaining that smoking was allowed on balconies as they had booked a balcony and had not even considered that smoking may be allowed on any cruise line now.  True Fred have always said smoking is allowed on balconies, but it is not always easily picked up for new to Fred people. We would not book anything without reading the T&C's, but let's face it, a lot of people would not bother.  I had been wondering if smoking on balconies will affect any insurance Fred may take out against fire in his ships, which could be more of a issue than some cancellations.  You may be better placed to know if they are likely to take out such insurance on their ships.  I have always reckoned that allowing smoking gave Fred a USP for his balconies, but whether that advantage is still of an overall benefit compared to getting bookings from those who would avoid such balconies is perhaps less clear.

 

I have seen a short copy of the Q3 2023 accounts posted elsewhere and that stated Samantha will be in post by 1sy Feb at the latest.  I think the original announcement mentioned February, but did not give an exact date.  Interesting if Peter Deer's job has already changed though.  As you have said in the past though, I doubt she would be that involved in the day to day running of the company initially as she will be wanting to assess the company at that stage.

Edited January 31 by tring

[tring]

6 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

What is interesting is that smoking is allowed on balconies is in FOCLs T&Cs and the contract that cruises have with FOCLs is based on those T&Cs at the point that the contract becomes effective... that's after any necessary "cooling off" period.

 

So if there are any changes in whether or not smoking is allowed on balconies... and we would certainly prefer that smoking wasn't allowed on any balcony... we will watch with interest to see how FOCLs deal with the possibility of disgruntled smokers who have paid expensive for a balcony smoking area that, if these so far unsubstantiated rumours being spread are confirmed by FOCLs, there will be what many people who have already booked cruises will regard as a significant change to their already booked accommodation.

 

It's also very odd that, if these rumours are true, the changes in policy have come about just before the newly appointed CEO, Samantha Stimpson, arrives in time for 1 February 2024... although there is no indication on her Linkedin account that she has joined FOCLs as yet, Pete Deer's profile has recently been significantly changed.

 

Future cruisers up in arms about T&Cs and what they believe to be "significant" changes is hardly what a newly appointed CEO what's to deal with her first day on the job. 

 

We'll watch and wait to see what happens with interest!

 

 

Btw there is no cooling off period when booking a cruise on line or over the phone as there is an exclusion for holidays in that legislation.

 

[twotravellersLondon]

 

Hence "after any necessary "cooling off" period."

 

There may be a cooling off period. We cancelled the last cruise that we booked with FOCLs within the 30 day cooling off period which on no other grounds except that we had "cooled off"! We had been advised the 30 day cooling off period when we booked and it was set out in the T&Cs at that time. We received a full refund. 

 

However the question of whether or not smoking on the balconies of FOCLs ships will be banned in the near future seems to be only an unconfirmed rumour at the moment and its best to wait and see what, if anything, is announced by FOCLs. 

 

But it seems very odd to us that this issue that was current well prior to the pandemic has raised its head again on the very eve of a CEO joining the company. (It was way back in October 2023 that FOCLs put out a press release stating that, "Her new role will commence no later than February 1st 2024.")

 

We're not smokers. We never have been and we have never liked the smell of tobacco on the balconies of FOCLs' ships... but... we feel very sorry for smokers who have already, in good faith,  paid a substantial premium for a balcony. 

 

For instance a couple of weeks on the Balmoral in mid-Feb. to the Northers Lights is about £1.899 pp in a "ocean view" but £5,199 pp with a balcony... That's an extra £3.300 pp... so it seems to be incredibly unfair to possible perturb those people who've already booked cruises further ahead with the idea that they'll be deprived of the very amenity that a couple may have paid about £7,000 extra for.

 

In our opinion, it's pretty unfair on some people for unsubstantiated and potentially disturbing rumours to circulate which may well have originated from the murkier depths of cyberspace; "balcony envy"  and the constant sniping of those with axes to grind. 

 

It's only fair to the people who will be significantly affected to allow them to know where the "story" has originated from so that they can examine and interrogate the original source and make up their own minds on the veracity of the information for themselves.

 

 

[Eglesbrech]

17 hours ago, JoJo1947 said:

Not a rumour as I had confirmed today 

May I ask how this was confirmed? Thank you

[JoJo1947]

20 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

We've seen nothing, despite a request, to confirm or deny and there's no sign, as far as we can see on the FOCLs site. So exactly who has confirmed this unsubstantiated rumour. Why on earth is nobody but nobody said where it came from. What's the great secret? If it's a reliable source surely we should all be able to know exactly who is originally spreading this tale. The very secrecy is the cause for concern, doubt and the lack of creditability.

 

So how can you confirm it? Who told you (name names), where did you read  it (precise links) , where is the information published... and if you have them why not share the web links with us all... so that we can look at the source and make up our own minds.

 No you will not  put me under pressure  to name names . I will  protect their identity but I have it on good authority so until then my lips are sealed.  I'm delighted I can now happily book a balcony 

[JoJo1947]

4 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

May I ask how this was confirmed? Thank you

By word of mouth from someone in a position to confirm it 

[kendadj]

Good - get it banned!

[tring]

Sounds like Fred may have delayed his plans to stopping smoking for a year.  It is not going down at all well with people who have booked suites in that time frame, having been told that the balconies around will be non smoking at the time of their cruise.  Quite a mess, I would certainly be insisting on cancelling if in that situation.

 

Reminds me of when we booked a cruise with a flexible dining option, (as they were doing), then being told that we would need to be on a set sitting basis.  We accepted that without a lot of quibble as soon after COVID and wanted the cruise anyway, as was far easier to do those short cruises from a local port.  We do not intend to make any more fresh Fred bookings though unless a flexible dining option becomes a reality as we found the set sitting time very restrictive on a recent cruise, (despite our well placed table for two), having got use to flexibility provided by other cruise lines.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4 by tring

[LandC]

You’re right tring, it is a mess.  No smoking on balconies and flexible dining has got to be the way to go.  
We will wait and see what happens now that the new CEO is in post.

[tring]

58 minutes ago, LandC said:

You’re right tring, it is a mess.  No smoking on balconies and flexible dining has got to be the way to go.  
We will wait and see what happens now that the new CEO is in post.

 

Quite agree, though as I am sure we can all see, it is better that the smoking issue has a lead in time, so probably it is best to delay it for a year, though should have been done many years ago.  Fred now appears to have changed it to the start of April 2025, though perhaps will take account of when individual cruises finish on each ship, as was going to be the case when the change was planned for this year.  Hopefully clear plans will come out everywhere in the not too distant future.  Sounds as though it may have only been  mentioned on one or more ship(s) so far, but those thinking of booking suites may have been advised of the changed plans by head office - I have no knowledge of that though, so perhaps not.  

 

There is a new brochure due out in March (usually fairly early March), when the majority of cruises from spring 2025 will be released.  Not many are on sale yet.

 

Edited February 4 by tring

[twotravellersLondon]

On 1/24/2024 at 11:20 PM, tring said:

I have no first hand knowledge of this, but it is reported elsewhere that it is to be stopped this April. 

 

On 1/30/2024 at 5:29 PM, tring said:

I am pretty sure the dates mentioned were after the WC on 17th April for Borealis and much nearer the beginning of the month for the others.

 

2 hours ago, tring said:

Fred now appears to have changed it to the start of April 2025,

 

Of course the alternative may be that the post "Elsewhere" was made in error or based on speculation... but, of course, that's just speculation. 

 

However, the Olsen empire is quite good taking immense care to ensure that all company information that should legitimately be confidential remains confidential. (The company has to by law.) Even the inadvertent sharing (of what many would consider as nothing more than interesting snippets of gossip) is frowned upon by FOCL and may well be actioned by the appropriate line managers.

 

All FOCL staff are bound by a duty of confidentiality to prevent unauthorised persons gaining access to information not reported publicly or classified as confidential... even after they leave FOCLs' employment.

 

Very specifically, "All persons working for FOCL must not use or distribute inside information regarding FOCL... with... clients, customers... or others." The staff know this very well, it's part of their training, it's included in the staff handbook and it's part of the Loyalty Culture on FOCLs' ships and in the land based offices.

 

A decision on any change of the company's T&Cs (as regards smoking on balconies is concerned) is only likely to have been taken at Board level...  either by the Board of FOCL... currently Jeremy Dowler..., Richard  Aa, Peter Deer & Anette Olsen or the Board of the immediate parent company, First Olsen Holdings, currently Jeremy Dowler..., Richard  Aa, Fred Olsen Sen. & Anette Olsen.

 

It would seem to be extremely unlikely to us that some of the most experienced, respected and successful business folks in Norway would allow any strategic decision to be known prior to a press release... more so any decision that might give rise to second thoughts or affect the sale of their balcony cabins and suites. And then... change a decision so soon afterwards.

 

So, if "Elsewhere" now prophesizes a year ahead... we shall wait to see with interest.

 

[tring]

22 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

 

 

Of course the alternative may be that the post "Elsewhere" was made in error or based on speculation... but, of course, that's just speculation. 

 

However, the Olsen empire is quite good taking immense care to ensure that all company information that should legitimately be confidential remains confidential. (The company has to by law.) Even the inadvertent sharing (of what many would consider as nothing more than interesting snippets of gossip) is frowned upon by FOCL and may well be actioned by the appropriate line managers.

 

All FOCL staff are bound by a duty of confidentiality to prevent unauthorised persons gaining access to information not reported publicly or classified as confidential... even after they leave FOCLs' employment.

 

Very specifically, "All persons working for FOCL must not use or distribute inside information regarding FOCL... with... clients, customers... or others." The staff know this very well, it's part of their training, it's included in the staff handbook and it's part of the Loyalty Culture on FOCLs' ships and in the land based offices.

 

A decision on any change of the company's T&Cs (as regards smoking on balconies is concerned) is only likely to have been taken at Board level...  either by the Board of FOCL... currently Jeremy Dowler..., Richard  Aa, Peter Deer & Anette Olsen or the Board of the immediate parent company, First Olsen Holdings, currently Jeremy Dowler..., Richard  Aa, Fred Olsen Sen. & Anette Olsen.

 

It would seem to be extremely unlikely to us that some of the most experienced, respected and successful business folks in Norway would allow any strategic decision to be known prior to a press release... more so any decision that might give rise to second thoughts or affect the sale of their balcony cabins and suites. And then... change a decision so soon afterwards.

 

So, if "Elsewhere" now prophesizes a year ahead... we shall wait to see with interest.

 

 

Except it is on the website if you care to take a look.  Clicking through to the next page via "read more" will give more detailed information:-

 

https://www.fredolsencruises.com/faqs/on-board

 

Also, Fred's cruise sales staff have always told prospective customers what to expect on the ships, there has never been any great company secret about that

.

 

Edited February 5 by tring

[twotravellersLondon]

It's excellent that FOCL has very promptly and firmly stomped on the unfounded rumour (seemingly reported elsewhere)  that the company will stop smoking on balconies this April.

 

We've come across various versions of the same story for at least five years.

 

We're non-smokers... always have been... and did dislike the smell on FOCL's balconies at times (in fact we even asked for ashtrays to be removed from our balcony because, even empty, they did still pong a bit)... but it's right and reasonable that smokers should have fair warning about when things are going to change.

 

Genuine clarity at last from a reliable and authoritative source! 

 

Perhaps someone at either FOCL or First Olsen Holdings have been reading these posts and decided to put an end to unnecessarily damaging speculation, gossip and rumours!

 

Business-wise, times have changed and culture has changed to such an extent there may be more "ocean view" clients prepared to make the transition to a balcony cabin than dedicated smokers who will vamoose from FOCLs' remaining ships rather than go to the smoking area. 

 

We very much doubt if FOCL will have made the decision without careful consideration of the financial pros and cons.