Will NEVER use HAL again!!

[Rotterdam]

I can assure you there is nothing else, or third issue.....what I now realize is that most people on these boards never knew HAL pre Carnivore...therefore we are talking apples & oranges. You did not state when you first sailed on HAL / Rotterdam V - but IMO the HAL I first knew, loved & sailed on no longer exists.....our experiences are different & certainly our tastes. Enough said.

[RevNeal]

I can assure you there is nothing else, or third issue.....what I now realize is that most people on these boards never knew HAL pre Carnivore...therefore we are talking apples & oranges.

 

In other words ... you know FAR better than ignorant louts like us the meaning of "quality" and "service" and so we, who are accustomed to sheer mediocrity, should bow to our betters. :( Figures. I was willing to grant that it wasn't one or the other -- it wasn't that I was a country bumpkin or you were an arrogant stuffed-shirt -- but, rather, a matter of different, yet valid, experiences on different cruises. Such is not to be the case, however. Figures.

 

You did not state when you first sailed on HAL / Rotterdam V

 

Actually, I DID say when I first sailed on HAL -- you even quoted it earlier today. However, I have no trouble repeating myself: my first HAL cruise was on the Nieuw Amsterdam in 1994. My first cruise on the Rotterdam V was also in 1994. My first cruise, ever, was on the ss United States in 1968.

 

- but IMO the HAL I first knew, loved & sailed on no longer exists.....our experiences are different & certainly our tastes. Enough said.

 

No ... that's not NEARLY enough said. :eek: Here ... let me show you what "enough said" looks like. Given the obvious superiority of your taste to mine, and the abject poverty I have suffered from having cruised on HAL only after the utter eradication of quality and service in the takeover by Carnival, all I can ever hope for is to grovel in the ignorance of my inadequate an obviously paltry experience. HAL ships are garbage scows, its staff are bumbling, surly, ungracious imbeciles, its food is only a hair-better than Swanson TV Dinners, and those of us who have joined the cruising population since 1989 are ignorant, uncultured dolts who are part of the whole problem. Oh, sure ... you didn't write the above ... but it's what I've gathered from what you DID write.

 

There ... how's THAT for "enough said." ? :cool:

[RevNeal]

You know, I probably shouldn't have written that the way I did ... but ... dang nab it, it needed to be said. I'm SICK of being told I just don't know what I've missed.

[Copper10-8]

There ... how's THAT for "enough said." ? :cool:

 

Now tell us how you really feel;) ! You OK Sir?:)

[RevNeal]

Now tell us how you really feel;) ! You OK Sir?:)

 

LOL ... indeed. :)

Yes, I'm fine.

Tired. A bit put out. That's all. :)

[Copper10-8]

LOL ... indeed. :)

Yes, I'm fine.

Tired. A bit put out. That's all. :)

 

Good to go!:)

 

[Bramcruiser]

LOL ... indeed. :)

Yes, I'm fine.

Tired. A bit put out. That's all. :)

 

Wow! Not like you Greg! However, I think I understand the burst. Its the same over on the Cunard board where I suddenly got sick of hearing nothing but griping from the so-called self-titled "people of quality" who complained about Cunard going downhill after Carnival's takeover and called all non-Grill passengers "steerage class" and refered to the QM2 as a Disney-land for cruising and not worthy of the Cunard heritage. Actually it went on for far too long and the result was a backlash thread which started people talking about what they did like about Cunard as well as those who said they had enough of the bitterness and the negativity. I joined the so-called boycott of the Cunard thread for about a week preferring to enjoy the few friendly people I chatted to over on our roll-call and talking positively about our upcoming cruises. Yes, I'm proud to be sailing on the mega-shopping mall-Disneyland-assembly line-faux first class ship - the QM2 later this year! But for you guys, I promise not to like it as much as my HAL experience.:)

 

Where is this going? Well, the idea on both HAL and Cunard seem to be the same. There is some legitimacy about the complaints laid against how things have changed since the old days but just blaming everything on Carnival seems a tad silly to me. Yes, economics sometimes pushes service and quality to the backseat. However, in Cunard's case it was a troubled line in the first place and it almost disappeared. HAL has seen many changes but its still afloat with a fairly decent reputation intact but the changes we have seen were necessary and accusing Carnival of being the Satanic purveyor of all things bad in the cruise industry today is silly. The problem I have, unfortunately, with the hold-outs from the old days is the tone or the style of the writing which throws me into the same tizzy as you did Greg! Its as if we don't know any better or are looking at the world through rose-coloured glasses. In fact, maybe I don't know better but you certainly have more cruising experience than I do. So I completely understand.

 

We should all do what the Cunard people done and start a "What do you like about HAL" thread! Always a good dose of medicine against the negative vibes.

[mama d]

Dear Revneal and Rotterdam,

 

It seems that you both have your own thoughts on this subject but this does not mean that bickering must ensue. Greg, I have certainly not read all of your posts but this is the first time I can remember you "going to the mattresses" quite like this. Please forget the gun and let's just eat the cannoli! (I'll even buy :))

 

It saddens me when I see these energy draining, negative, name-calling, nigh on to abusive posts. :(

 

Are we not all here to interact positively with one another?

 

Life is too short for negative feelings to be projected onto one another. Just days ago people on cruises lost their lives! Those who are left to greive will never be quite the same.

 

If I have offended anyone then let me appologize now. I am sorry that I have offended you.

 

I hope that we all can stand back and let our tempers and fingers cool off for a while.

 

calm waters, peaceful days

[grannynurse]

I've followed this thread for several days and i can only respond by asking "What hasn't changed since the early 80's when we started cruising?"

We loved NCL and RCI then but they are not for us now. We were much less well-off, younger, inexperienced. We chose postage stamp sized cabins with a porthole as that was all we could afford. We loved them, laughed about crawling across the bed to get anywhere in the cabin, fought to get to the bathroom first as 2 of us couldn't fit in there together, but still enjoyed every minute of our adventures.

 

This is a new century, much has evolved, we're older, more mature, and not pollyannas anymore.

Yes there are differences and deficiencies but we don't care. We only enjoy our memories and make new memories.

 

Kahlil Gibran said it best. "if it comforts them to regret, then let them be comforted."

Life is too short to clutter with "what-ifs" and "it was better then"

Enjoy the now, different is different.

We are blessed being able to cruise at all. My son is at a Mother Theresa mission in Calcutta. You should read his emails.

Thank the Lord for what you have and are able to do.

I don't suggest that people should not express their opinions but don't let the negative ones overtake you, it can be so self-destructive.

I'm not a preacher, and i love you all but if we want to be carried away, let it be with joy.

GN

[TedC]

Amen!

[Rotterdam]

Dear Revneal and Rotterdam,

 

It seems that you both have your own thoughts on this subject but this does not mean that bickering must ensue. Greg, I have certainly not read all of your posts but this is the first time I can remember you "going to the mattresses" quite like this. Please forget the gun and let's just eat the cannoli! (I'll even buy :))

 

It saddens me when I see these energy draining, negative, name-calling, nigh on to abusive posts. :(

 

Are we not all here to interact positively with one another?

 

Life is too short for negative feelings to be projected onto one another. Just days ago people on cruises lost their lives! Those who are left to greive will never be quite the same.

 

If I have offended anyone then let me appologize now. I am sorry that I have offended you.

 

I hope that we all can stand back and let our tempers and fingers cool off for a while.

 

calm waters, peaceful days

 

You have not offended myself in the least...hopefully RevNeal will see your wisdom.

[Rotterdam]

Agree your experience is unique & we have never encountered mold in our cabin or a water main break..If we had, we may feel the same way as you do..Understand where you are coming from, but try to look at it this way...

 

Years ago in the Airline business we had Berths & First Class for Trans-Atlantic Passengers... Many Airlines went out of business because of increasing costs.. Airlines could no longer afford to give the service they once gave & service deteriorated..Then came the bare bones Airlines & with it lower prices...Many who once were first class passengers travel business class or economy because their companies will no longer pay the first class rates..

 

Agree HAL is not the same as it was in the 80's but look up the fares that were charged then & now..Fares have not increased all that much!Passengers are not willing to pay the increases it would take to give the service of yesteryear..Hal was in danger of going out of business until Carnival took it over..

 

My first cruise was on Hellenic in the Greek Islands in the 70's...Service was superb, but they went out of business..Then came another cruise on NCL in the late 70's..Again service was out of this world! NCL has changed, because that is what passengers want & are willing to pay for..Many of the cruise lines service has changed over the years..

 

We are retired & our pensions have not increased, however are still fortunate enough to be able to afford the longer cruises with HAL, which is still our favorite cruise line..

 

Happy Cruising everyone!:) ...Betty

 

It was nice to reread your well thought out & balanced views on cruising,,,,yesterday & today....I wish you many many more days at sea...with wonderful wonderful memories....best regards, Rotterdam.

[JohnR49er]

Leaving the "lovefest" aside.....:D and getting back to the original topic, just a thought..............

Handheld bar code scanners that print out a receipt are used widely, like when you turn in a rental car.

Why not have the luggage guys scan the bags and slide the receipt under the door? You have a receipt for your bags in case they are misplaced.

Seems like a good way for the cruiseline to also keep track of them.

[seaair100]

I believe that Grannynurse stated it best.Times do change.I was in my 20's, when I went on the previous Rotterdam,It was my 1st cruise, prob. around 1978 and it was the end of an era of oceanliners.I did not know that then.I also enjoyed Home Lines and Sitmar Lines, All long gone, and that type of cruising is also gone.But cell phones, computers, plasma tv, etc didn't exist.

The best I can state,I have been a Ped.Int Care nurse,for ,30 some years, and technology, has come so fast in the last 10 years or so, it is a whole new world.What I am trying to artiiculate, that I sometimes long for ,another time, both in medicine, and in cruse travel.But, I do believe that you cannot go home again.And I do believe that the "state of gracious cruising", that I experienced so long ago, I do not believe, though I do wish, that I would enjoy that type of cruising now.

Where is the internet center, where is my dvd/cd player,self service laundry, explorations cafe,etc.

What does exist to me on HA, is gracious and genuine crew, yes, possibly more burdened, with their work load. But there is always deck chair to sit in, a deck to walk around fully, and the motion of the ocean.ANd I am a happy person.Sorry go go on, thanks for reading, Dee

[doone]

Grannynurse and Seaair, perfectly said. I started sailing well over 20 years ago and so much has changed, not only in cruising either. All cruiselines have had to change with the times, not only HAL.

[Copper10-8]

Yes, the times of the Titanic, they are no longer, alas;)

 

BTW, I'm not a Carnival fan (tried them twice) but why call them "Carnivore"? If it wasn't for CCL, HAL more than likely wouldn't exist anymore!

[Rotterdam]

I've followed this thread for several days and i can only respond by asking "What hasn't changed since the early 80's when we started cruising?"

We loved NCL and RCI then but they are not for us now. We were much less well-off, younger, inexperienced. We chose postage stamp sized cabins with a porthole as that was all we could afford. We loved them, laughed about crawling across the bed to get anywhere in the cabin, fought to get to the bathroom first as 2 of us couldn't fit in there together, but still enjoyed every minute of our adventures.

 

This is a new century, much has evolved, we're older, more mature, and not pollyannas anymore.

Yes there are differences and deficiencies but we don't care. We only enjoy our memories and make new memories.

 

Kahlil Gibran said it best. "if it comforts them to regret, then let them be comforted."

Life is too short to clutter with "what-ifs" and "it was better then"

Enjoy the now, different is different.

We are blessed being able to cruise at all. My son is at a Mother Theresa mission in Calcutta. You should read his emails.

Thank the Lord for what you have and are able to do.

I don't suggest that people should not express their opinions but don't let the negative ones overtake you, it can be so self-destructive

I'm not a preacher, and i love you all but if we want to be carried away, let it be with joy.

GN

 

I have nothing but happy memories of the days you speak of....& feel so fortunate to have of experienced them...after living a life where I lost 2 brothers, survived 9/11 and been touched by cancer & alzheimers in people so dear to me -I strive for the joy in life...even if I am in a row boat - the sea & stars bring great happiness & peace...no one needs to remind me how fortunate I am .......bless your son & yourself....your words are so wise & caring....it comes across so strongly...even through this technology!!!!!!

[RevNeal]

There is some legitimacy about the complaints laid against how things have changed since the old days but just blaming everything on Carnival seems a tad silly to me. Yes, economics sometimes pushes service and quality to the backseat. However, in Cunard's case it was a troubled line in the first place and it almost disappeared. HAL has seen many changes but its still afloat with a fairly decent reputation intact but the changes we have seen were necessary and accusing Carnival of being the Satanic purveyor of all things bad in the cruise industry today is silly. The problem I have, unfortunately, with the hold-outs from the old days is the tone or the style of the writing which throws me into the same tizzy as you did Greg! Its as if we don't know any better or are looking at the world through rose-coloured glasses. In fact, maybe I don't know better but you certainly have more cruising experience than I do. So I completely understand.

 

Thank you. I agree entirely that HAL has changed and that things are not what they used to be. I don't doubt that. INDEED ... my own experience over the last 12 years CONFIRMS it. However, I'm also well-enough versed in the dynamics of how the cruise line is run to realize that SOME of the extremely negative experiences are reflective of eventualities only tangentially related to Carnival's ownership.

 

For instance, each time HAL adds a new ship there is a disruption in service levels FLEET WIDE. When the Line is adds a ship or two a year (as in 2000) it makes perfect since that perceived service levels will be further depressed as (1) the service staff is thinned a bit beyond normal levels, and (2) the ss Jakarta has to work overtime to train and deploy more staff. HAL recognizes this problem and has launched a second training institute, and has added additional onboard language training staff, to accelerate the rate at which new staff can be added to the fleet AND to assist the new Indonesians in coming "up to snuff" linguistically once their aboard.

[RevNeal]

It seems that you both have your own thoughts on this subject but this does not mean that bickering must ensue. Greg, I have certainly not read all of your posts but this is the first time I can remember you "going to the mattresses" quite like this. Please forget the gun and let's just eat the cannoli! (I'll even buy :))

 

:) ... I like cannoli. But I'll buy.

As for "going to the mattress" like this ... I've done it a few times before. Generally it's when someone has really copped an attitude at me and I'm short a dozen hours in a weekend on sleep. :)

 

If I have offended anyone then let me appologize now. I am sorry that I have offended you.

 

You have not offended me, mama. I appreciate your kind words and the perspective you bring. Thank you very much.

[RevNeal]

We are blessed being able to cruise at all. My son is at a Mother Theresa mission in Calcutta. You should read his emails.

Thank the Lord for what you have and are able to do.

I don't suggest that people should not express their opinions but don't let the negative ones overtake you, it can be so self-destructive.

I'm not a preacher, and i love you all but if we want to be carried away, let it be with joy.

 

Dear GN, all I can say is amen.

[jckvpa0]

This was a charter

 

 

That's why it was so inexpensive!

 

I was thinking, my dh would have been thrilled if we had only spent $4,800.00 on our cruise!!!

 

On the subject, I would never put a box of alcohol outside my room.

[RevNeal]

BTW, I'm not a Carnival fan (tried them twice) but why call them "Carnivore"? If it wasn't for CCL, HAL more than likely wouldn't exist anymore!

 

John, I think Rotterdam's point is that HAL doesn't exist anymore. Not the HAL he remembers from pre-1989. And, you know something ... he's right. But, then, that's true for everything ... including you and me. The Greg of 1989 no longer exists. The Greg of 2006 is an older, wider, sometimes wiser person than the Greg of 1989. Yes, there's a direct connection between the me of 17 years ago and the me of today. LIKEWISE, the HAL of 17 years ago can be seen echoed in the HAL of today. Is it "as good as it was?" Probably not. In some ways it is not as good now as it was then ... but, in other ways, I could make a strong argument that it is now far better than it was. Yes, I wasn't there. Yes, all I have to go on is what others (like my parents, who have cruised HAL since the early 1970s) have told me. But I am an Historian (one of my undergraduate majors was in History), and so I am used to recreating events and conditions from written, photographic, and oral sources. I can also look at what is currently present, and my OWN historic experience of 12 of the last 17 years and then extrapolate on back an additional 5 years.

 

The HAL of 2006 is a different entity from the HAL of 1994. In 1994, when I first cruised on Holland America, the Fleet had 6 ships: The Nieuw Amsterdam III, the Noordam III, the Rotterdam V, the Westerdam II, the Statendam V, and the Maasdam IV. Later in 1994 they added a 7th ship, the Ryndam III. Because the fleet was smaller, the number of sailings were fewer, the number of berths available for people to cruise in were, accordingly, fewer, the areas where cruise-service was offered was less expansive, and the cost of a cruise was more expensive (or, at least, it seemed that way). In 2006, 12 years after I first boarded the Nieuw Amsterdam, the Fleet has DOUBLED in size and MORE than doubled in capacity. The Fleet sails many more "sorties," offering regular service in and to regions of the planet, and exotic locals, only occasionally visited before. Some might consider this a bad thing. I do not. I would love it if the attention to detail and service levels were back closer to what I knew in 1994, but it would also be fair to say that, depending upon the cruise, I have recently experienced levels of service comparable to that which I had in 1994. For instance, the superb service on the Zaandam in 2004 stands out as among the best ever. True, the first night of that 21 day cruise we had some settling-in issues, but the staff quickly learned our likes, dislikes, and expectations, and within just a couple of days service was as good as I've ever known it to be. And, as for the food ... yes, the menus are not nearly as expansive as they used to be. However ... I can only eat one dish from each course anyway. And the taste and presentation of the food I do eat is usually quite good. "Mediocre" is simply not a word I would use to describe it. Other's might, and given the relative nature of food, that's certainly understandable.

[sail7seas]

I've followed this thread for several days and i can only respond by asking "What hasn't changed since the early 80's when we started cruising?"

We loved NCL and RCI then but they are not for us now. We were much less well-off, younger, inexperienced. We chose postage stamp sized cabins with a porthole as that was all we could afford. We loved them, laughed about crawling across the bed to get anywhere in the cabin, fought to get to the bathroom first as 2 of us couldn't fit in there together, but still enjoyed every minute of our adventures.

 

This is a new century, much has evolved, we're older, more mature, and not pollyannas anymore.

Yes there are differences and deficiencies but we don't care. We only enjoy our memories and make new memories.

 

Kahlil Gibran said it best. "if it comforts them to regret, then let them be comforted."

Life is too short to clutter with "what-ifs" and "it was better then"

Enjoy the now, different is different.

We are blessed being able to cruise at all. My son is at a Mother Theresa mission in Calcutta. You should read his emails.

Thank the Lord for what you have and are able to do.

I don't suggest that people should not express their opinions but don't let the negative ones overtake you, it can be so self-destructive.

I'm not a preacher, and i love you all but if we want to be carried away, let it be with joy.

GN

 

 

Perfect, GN.........

[Copper10-8]

Not wishing to change the subject but:

With all the sadness and trauma going on in the world at the moment,

It is worth reflecting on the death of a very important person, which almost went unnoticed last week.

 

Larry LaPrise, the man that wrote "The Hokey Pokey" died peacefully at the age of 93. The most traumatic part for his family was getting him into the coffin. They put his left leg in. And then the trouble started.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I've just read the last day or two's posts all at once and I have to tell you it's a pretty even match. Neither of you needed any help.

 

When I post like this, my posts go poof so fast you don't even get to mutter "whistle Dixie"!

 

Two things come to my mind ... one is I don't think change is necessarily for the better. And I don't think we have to grin and bear it and say change is inevitable and we have to put up with it.

 

The other is we're all just so darned lucky we can go out on the big blue ocean on any big boat.

 

It was better way back then. The service was better, the food was better, smaller ships were better. It was just better. Bigger isn't better, more people isn't better. That's my opinion. That's why we're cruising as much as we can before it's changed so much that we just don't want to do it anymore.

 

But none of it is worth having this vicious an argument about ... none of it.