Star Princess Fire Does Not Make Sense

[smeyer418]

1) I doubt that you can "turn off" the sprinklers. It is possible they did not work, but I am sure they were on.

 

2) There is no evidence that the fire fighting team was incompetent or poorly trained.

 

3) It would not matter if the balconies were aluminum or steel. Even the open flame from a candle would not cause either to burn. Nonetheless, I am sure the ship meets all the current requirements for materials used.

 

4) It might be an electrical fire, but that still does not explain the extent of the fire. Have you considered the possibility that some accelerant was used? That would better explain the extent of the damage over any of your theories.

 

1)Yes you can turn off sprinklers. Its a valve that controls them all. I hate to tell you how many times at a major fire that the sprinkler system was turned off because someone "forgot" to turn the valve back on.

2. Not only that they performed superbly!

3. Not true. If the stuff on the deck(rugs-plastic chairs, cushons etc). burned and it caused flashover it would be hot enough to ignite aluminum.

4. If the stuff on the on the balconies burned and started fires in each of the room that it was attahed too by causing heat to burst the windows and the flammable soft goods in the room burning its enough to cause the damage

[artvlay]

It seems so difficult to understand how a cigarette could have caused this fire. People have said that it could have been thrown and landed on a robe or a towel. Well, for those of you who have cruised a lot, would you leave a towel or a robe outside overnight? With the winds, they can be blown to the ground or overboard, so very few people would have them on their balconies. Another thing; How many time have you seen a cigarette that was left on a countertop or on a plastic surface leave a burn mark. It didn't burn through and melt the entire object. Not to say that either of these things couldn't have happened, because this could have been the one-in-a-million time that it could have happened.

 

My problem is that I don't trust the cruise lines, with what has happened with that missing honeymooner from the Brilliance last year. Royal Caribbean has been exceptionally evasive and if it wasn't for the news media, you would have gotten nothing from them. If you have read the book, Devils On the Deep Blue Sea, you would see how the cruise lines operate and how the laws they operate under are 100 percent in their favor. The crimes that occur on the ships go virtually unreported to authorities. We were on the Brilliance a couple of months after that guy went missing, and any time you were talking to a crew member socially and the topic of the honeymooner came up, they acted like the KGB would grab them and throw them overboard.

[cruise182]

The crew on the ships feel very threatened by management. most of the service crew come from very poor countries where jobs are hard to come by let alone jobs that pay enough to feed and house a family. I know that RCCL tells the crew to remain tight lip about certain topics, such as the recent virus on a RCI ship. The crew of other non affected ships were called to a meeting and were told to tell any passenger asking about the other ship and its virus that they did not know anything. Being the crew are in fear of loosing their job they listen to the management..

[Mncadguy]

Hello all, We arrived home last night from the star princess. First off I would like to say the Crew Staff handled the situation with COMPLETE professionalism. While some may have or will post that the captain did not give us passengers enough info. I will say had it been known how serious it really was it would have caused alot of panicking I believe. Secondly I personally do not believe it was all caused be a cigarrette. Yes I smoke. But I will ask you this one question. If you have ever smoked and tossed heaven forbid a smoke out the window of your car and it blew back inside and you did not notice. Then later you find it while cleaning your car out. what did you find. A small burn mark correct? This is my theory. Besides as stated before the ship is manufactured with fire retardent material not all but most. with that it would take quite a bit to get the fire burning as hot as it did certainly not a cigarette. In our cabin our fridge when opened has an excessive amount of heat coming from the bottom. We checked our daughters out and hers did not act in that way. others had stated the same thing to us after the fire. One other thing and I hope someone else will agree with me. It did smell alot like a electrical fire to me. Thats all I have at this time. We are all very physically and emotionally exhausted.

[Mncadguy]

Back agian I just read a couple of posts from other cruisers. And I need to make a correction. We were not on the same deck where the fire started E216. It did seem to me that they handle things well. But after reading reports from others on the deck where it started. They should have handled the situation differntly. Sorry if I upset anyone.

 

Mncadguy :(

[land lover]

Posting on wrong thread sorry

[Hello-Kitty]

swan,

i just re-read my post to refresh myself of what i could have said that was so offensive to you and i do not see why you take any offense to what i wrote. I just simply replied to your comment about smoking rules written in the patter.

 

I am sorry that you have such a condition and no i dont suggest you say home wrapped up in a blanket,and i dont think its fair to throw your sad story at me,( no i dont have candles on my kids b-day cakes b/c i cant have children.)

 

Do we even know if a cigarette IS the cause of the fire??? Is it??? That is why this all came up, isnt it?? Or are you just venting about the inconsiderate smoker.

 

I will try to disregard the bitterness of your last post to me.

 

If you are looking for an argument you will not get it from me.

All i did was ask a question!

 

Have a nice day:)

[jbond]

swan,

i just re-read my post to refresh myself of what i could have said that was so offensive to you and i do not see why you take any offense to what i wrote. I just simply replied to your comment about smoking rules written in the patter.

 

I am sorry that you have such a condition and no i dont suggest you say home wrapped up in a blanket,and i dont think its fair to throw your sad story at me,( no i dont have candles on my kids b-day cakes b/c i cant have children.)

 

Do we even know if a cigarette IS the cause of the fire??? Is it??? That is why this all came up, isnt it?? Or are you just venting about the inconsiderate smoker.

 

I will try to disregard the bitterness of your last post to me.

 

If you are looking for an argument you will not get it from me.

All i did was ask a question!

 

Have a nice day:)

Well I'm with swan, you're post was very nasty and uncalled for.

I am curious to why you go anywhere if you have such a condition??

What did people do years ago when smoking wasnt an issue?? Did they not have these conditions like you,then? Or is it now people are so aware of health and smoking people play up to the no smoking rule now??

Just asking a question, sure hate to hear you when you have a statement to make.

Have a nice day :)

[RHefley228]

The problem with cigarettes is that they continue to burn even when unattended.

 

True. When I was in the army we used cigarettes as a crude ignition timing device when slow-burning fuse was not available.

[Cuizer2]

I have read a post that the paint was very flamable and that is the reason the fire spread the way it did. Also, the firre started on the exterior of the ship, where there are no smoke detectors. I don't know if any of this is correct however.

[zackiedawg]

But I will ask you this one question. If you have ever smoked and tossed heaven forbid a smoke out the window of your car and it blew back inside and you did not notice. Then later you find it while cleaning your car out. what did you find. A small burn mark correct? This is my theory.

 

To answer your question - different materials have significantly different resistances to burning. Most of the time, a burning cigarette, which has no open flame, would not be capable of igniting plastics, thick vinyls, leathers, and other such materials aflame. Instead, the heat from the cigarette would cause a melt spot, heat-based damage as opposed to flame-based damage.

 

However, put that burning cigarette next to something with a lower flame resistance, such as a paper towel, tissue, hair, clothing material, etc - and you can in fact create an open flame. Anything from a paper towel, box of kleenex, terry robe, beach towel, nylon bathing suit, cloth shoe, etc which could have been sitting on a balcony could be ignited by a cigarette (just as people can die in their homes from a cigarette catching an article of clothing, paper waste in the trash, bedding materials, curtains, etc). Once this material begins burning with an open flame, it will begin to separate and fall - if cotton-based, it will burn into flaming chunks of material...if poly-based, it will melt into a liquid plastic. Cotton clothing can maintain flame for several minutes - polyester clothing can maintain flame for 3-5 minutes. Both of these materials burn far hotter than a cigarette, and cover a larger area. More fire-resistant materials, such as the plastic deck chairs, may be able to resist a cigarette, but not an entire burning towel, and eventually they too ignite. Except now you have a burning chemical compound - plastics burn very hot, and become fluid when burning. This could easily ignite the rubber/plastic floor matting and plastic/fiber balcony dividers, which would burn hotter yet. Flames can jet out from these materials, and would rise more than a dozen feet - igniting cabin materials from the deck above, and wind-blown fire would lick back to the cabins rearward. The intensity of the burning would allow the fire to spread into the wind as well, as the wind increases the burn rate and temperature (blow into a lit cigarette, and it still burns back). Falling debris would partially ignite tiered cabins below. Just one example of how a very simple ignition source can easily be formed into a white-hot inferno.

 

Besides as stated before the ship is manufactured with fire retardent material not all but most. with that it would take quite a bit to get the fire burning as hot as it did certainly not a cigarette.

 

Actually, the ship is manufactured with fire-resistant materials...these are not firePROOF. They simply resist fire longer than the untreated materials, and when they eventually burn, they may char more quickly to allow them to self-extinguish. But they still burn. And a cigarette merely needs a helper to transition from low smolder to high flame.

 

One other thing and I hope someone else will agree with me. It did smell alot like a electrical fire to me. Thats all I have at this time. We are all very physically and emotionally exhausted.

 

Just as an observation - electrical fires usually smell the way they do because of the manmade materials that usually burn from these fires - predominantly plastics, alloy metals, rubbers, etc. These are precisely the types of materials that burned on all those balconies and rooms...and in fact, the electrics themselves would have burned up even if they weren't the cause.

 

Glad to hear you made it through such a horrific incident safely and unharmed. And glad to hear the crew acted admirably and calmly. The fire might have ignited from any number of different sources - we'll have to see what the investigation turns up. But I wouldn't rule out anything, including cigarettes, despite how small and innocuous as they might seem.