Specialty dining, is it real

[jeromep]

5 hours ago, memoak said:

Eating in port is a great chance to try different cuisines as well as avoid the buffet where we observe people not washing and pickup food with their hands or the grill where everything is cooked on one flattop which is rarely cleaned. We have actually gotten sick there

 

I agree that eating in port is a great way to find and try different cuisines, but depending on the port, I'm going to be very guarded about where I dine.  There are some disgusting commercial kitchens out there, and the cleanliness of the kitchen and the staff running it are going to be directly related to a combination of factors, including how much the kitchen is regulated, how well managed it is, and the cultural and societal cleanliness standards the staff have regarding food preparation.

 

As for flat tops, I regularly cook on a Blackstone.  They are carbon steel and are supposed to be seasoned and retain a patina in order to be non-stick.  While a good seasoning routing is best, in general, the more you use them, the better their nonstick qualities become.  Throughout the summer when cooking on it, you bring it up to high temp, then back it down, do your cooking, remove the food, then bring it up to high temp again, and you scrape the surface while spraying it down with water, pushing excess oil and debris to the catch bin.  Then you add a light coat of oil to the whole surface, let it smoke, wipe it down again and turn off.  Generally speaking a flat top in a restaurant should not ever be "stainless steel" clean in appearance.  And considering that at max temp you can get the surface of a flat top up to somewhere between 800 and 1000 degrees, no bacteria or virus can survive on that surface for any length of time.  A griddle is inherently sanitary when it is cooking because it is very hot.

 

4 hours ago, Lady Arwen said:

If I’m in an interesting port that I’m enjoying walking around, why would I feel the need to run back to the ship to eat an average, at best, meal in the buffet or grill, when I can enjoy the local cuisine at a lovely restaurant with great food and wine?  Just because I feel the need to eat the free stuff onboard?  That would be a hard “No”!

 

I don't disagree with the sentiment.  I can't say I've ever run back to the ship for lunch and then run out again... well, actually there was that one time in Juneau many years ago..., but that was about being practical.  Choose a line to stand in at an eatery in the port area for an undetermined amount of time or a quick walk back to the ship, then through a very quiet security line to get food that we are generally certain is properly prepared.

 

3 hours ago, kywildcatfanone said:

This was going to be my comment.  Makes no sense to think that tourist restaurants are any more sanitary than those on the ship.

 

Agreed!  That is exactly where I'm coming from.  I grew up with this little chestnut in my brain, good old advice from mom, "want to know the condition of the kitchen, visit the restroom."

 

3 hours ago, memoak said:

Restaurants on land don’t let customers put their hands on all the food. On ships buffets we have watch people use their hands to go through cold cuts, cheeses etc. 

 

Well, every buffet that I've frequented in my area is this and more.  Most of the buffets where I live are all "Chinese" and I've seen more buffet faux pas occur on land than on board ships.  Children running wild around warming tables.  People thoughtlessly taking dirty plates back to get more, dropping serving utensils on the floor, sometimes just putting them back, sometimes having the sense to not do that, but then stand there with the spoon or tongs in hand held to the sky like some kind of awkward statue of buffet liberty or a student trying to hail their teacher.  And let's not forget the lack of buffet table maintenance, nobody wiping down countertop surfaces or cleaning up little messes.  Sure, I'm not a fan of self-serve buffets on ships, but the same behavior that we've all witnessed on board is often times worse on land.

 

3 hours ago, 555 said:

On the ship you can run across it on occasion but we always eat early at the buffet when the food is first presented and not picked over.

On land you can only hope they conform to some health standards, which I seriously doubt especially in the Caribbean.

I'll take my chance with ship food any day. 

 

I was going to say something similar, that is almost exactly how I feel.

[memoak]

12 minutes ago, jeromep said:

 

I agree that eating in port is a great way to find and try different cuisines, but depending on the port, I'm going to be very guarded about where I dine.  There are some disgusting commercial kitchens out there, and the cleanliness of the kitchen and the staff running it are going to be directly related to a combination of factors, including how much the kitchen is regulated, how well managed it is, and the cultural and societal cleanliness standards the staff have regarding food preparation.

 

As for flat tops, I regularly cook on a Blackstone.  They are carbon steel and are supposed to be seasoned and retain a patina in order to be non-stick.  While a good seasoning routing is best, in general, the more you use them, the better their nonstick qualities become.  Throughout the summer when cooking on it, you bring it up to high temp, then back it down, do your cooking, remove the food, then bring it up to high temp again, and you scrape the surface while spraying it down with water, pushing excess oil and debris to the catch bin.  Then you add a light coat of oil to the whole surface, let it smoke, wipe it down again and turn off.  Generally speaking a flat top in a restaurant should not ever be "stainless steel" clean in appearance.  And considering that at max temp you can get the surface of a flat top up to somewhere between 800 and 1000 degrees, no bacteria or virus can survive on that surface for any length of time.  A griddle is inherently sanitary when it is cooking because it is very hot.

 

 

I don't disagree with the sentiment.  I can't say I've ever run back to the ship for lunch and then run out again... well, actually there was that one time in Juneau many years ago..., but that was about being practical.  Choose a line to stand in at an eatery in the port area for an undetermined amount of time or a quick walk back to the ship, then through a very quiet security line to get food that we are generally certain is properly prepared.

 

 

Agreed!  That is exactly where I'm coming from.  I grew up with this little chestnut in my brain, good old advice from mom, "want to know the condition of the kitchen, visit the restroom."

 

 

Well, every buffet that I've frequented in my area is this and more.  Most of the buffets where I live are all "Chinese" and I've seen more buffet faux pas occur on land than on board ships.  Children running wild around warming tables.  People thoughtlessly taking dirty plates back to get more, dropping serving utensils on the floor, sometimes just putting them back, sometimes having the sense to not do that, but then stand there with the spoon or tongs in hand held to the sky like some kind of awkward statue of buffet liberty or a student trying to hail their teacher.  And let's not forget the lack of buffet table maintenance, nobody wiping down countertop surfaces or cleaning up little messes.  Sure, I'm not a fan of self-serve buffets on ships, but the same behavior that we've all witnessed on board is often times worse on land.

 

 

I was going to say something similar, that is almost exactly how I feel.

When was the last time you saw a lido deck grill scraped down while cooking beef, chicken and I guess now plant based “meat”.  They cook all day of that same surface nothing comes out very hot and for someone who hasn’t eaten chicken in years my hamburger did not even taste like beef 

Some of the best food I have ever eaten has been on cruises off the ship. Not usually in the port area itself but with a little research you can get some remarkable meals. 
you could not pay me to eat in any buffet on ship or on land 

[jeromep]

1 minute ago, memoak said:

When was the last time you saw a lido deck grill scraped down while cooking beef, chicken and I guess now plant based “meat”.  They cook all day of that same surface nothing comes out very hot and for someone who hasn’t eaten chicken in years my hamburger did not even taste like beef

My most recent cruise was on Discovery and yes, they were handling the griddle as I would expect.  They were doing periodic scrape downs and periodic water sprays (which immediately creates steam) and scrapes.  I had many a burger from the grill on Lido and felt that the food prep area was being handled as well or better than any local burger joint.  Not only that the food was prepared in front of me and was plenty hot.  I have no problem agreeing to disagree, especially since food is so subjective.

 

On one of my late night walks I happened to notice that when the grill was closed they had a dust cover over the griddle surface.  That was also rather impressive considering that I'm not aware of any restaurant that puts a dust cover over their griddle when they are closed.  This makes sense considering that the grill on Lido is basically open to the elements, but it also shows conscious attention to detail.

[memoak]

On a long wet cruise it is a relief to get away from shipboard food and get something different. I cannot imagine eating every day in the same restaurant for weeks on end

[kywildcatfanone]

1 hour ago, memoak said:

When was the last time you saw a lido deck grill scraped down while cooking beef, chicken and I guess now plant based “meat”.  They cook all day of that same surface nothing comes out very hot and for someone who hasn’t eaten chicken in years my hamburger did not even taste like beef 

Some of the best food I have ever eaten has been on cruises off the ship. Not usually in the port area itself but with a little research you can get some remarkable meals. 
you could not pay me to eat in any buffet on ship or on land 

I see them scraping the grill regularly as well as spray water on it.

 

We get it, you don't go to the buffet and that is fine. Others do, and that is fine as well.

[TheMichael]

If there's one thing you find out from a cruise food thread, it's that everyone not only has different tastes, but also have different ideas of how things work. 😀

 

The bottom line for the OP is that it doesn't matter one iota whether it's the same kitchen if it's different food. 

 

On some ships the main galley serves more than one venue; on other ships it doesn't (in fact, on many ships you can see the buffet kitchen at work preparing various items).

 

People "believe" grills don't get cleaned when they actually do (and that a flat-top grill that cooks both beef and chicken makes the beef somehow taste like chicken - I'd like to know how they believe that bit of chemistry works). People "believe" specialty dining isn't "worth it" - what even middling land-based steakhouse will serve you appy and soup/salad for $39 these days, much less the rest of the meal?. 

 

The one thing I'd both strongly agree and strongly disagree on is whether to eat some meals at the ports instead. Some ports have some amazing local food. If I was on a cruise around Japan I'd probably never eat on the ship at all. 😀 But in many ports, unless you know the area or have a trusted recommendation (not Yelp), the food can be bland, pedestrian, and downright disappointing enough to make you realize that "ship food" isn't so bad after all. 

[mrmarklin]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:08 PM, 555 said:

You've got to eat the free meals first.😉

 

 

 

We never seem to miss the ships lunch even on port days. 

Why spend money on land when there's perfectly good food on the ship when you get back. 

For me being in a foreign port and being able to sample what the locals eat, is one major reasons I travel. Tapas in Spain, fois gras in France, etc etc are what make travel worth it. Silly to eat on the ship when one doesn’t have to.  This may not apply to certain US ports if you’re American, but c’mon man!

Edited May 9 by mrmarklin

[insidecabin]

On 5/6/2024 at 7:12 PM, Mark_K said:

I could eat five meals a day, but it might interfere with making sure I get all fifteen alcoholic drinks in. You have to have priorities. 😉

 

Regardless, I’m just saying that you might also think about the opportunity cost of not eating in the MDR when deciding whether to pay for a meal at a specialty restaurant.

 

 

Opportunity cost!

Lets have a look(guess) at what that might be

 

On the mass market like Princess the average cost of food in your cruise fare will be $10-$15 pppd(from the financials)

 

That's all the food to feed everyone on the ship including crew and the elevated cost of some of speciality items.

 

The food cost for a dinner in the MDR  is going to be(I guess) under $5

(Maybe $5 and a bit on a special evening)

 

Your service in the speciality will(should) be elevated got there is already a MDR service included in your Crew appreciation.

[Mark_K]

8 minutes ago, insidecabin said:

Opportunity cost!

Lets have a look(guess) at what that might be

 

On the mass market like Princess the average cost of food in your cruise fare will be $10-$15 pppd(from the financials)

 

That's all the food to feed everyone on the ship including crew and the elevated cost of some of speciality items.

 

The food cost for a dinner in the MDR  is going to be(I guess) under $5

(Maybe $5 and a bit on a special evening)

 

Your service in the speciality will(should) be elevated got there is already a MDR service included in your Crew appreciation.

The cost listed in the financials is not the full cost of a meal, it’s just the cost of the food, itself.  i.e. the ingredients. It doesn’t include labor, energy required to cook, depreciation on equipment, etc.

 

Regardless, the opportunity cost is not what it costs them, it’s what it costs me. It costs me a pretty decent meal that I’ve already paid for.

[TheMichael]

On 5/9/2024 at 4:46 AM, Mark_K said:

The cost listed in the financials is not the full cost of a meal, it’s just the cost of the food, itself.  i.e. the ingredients. It doesn’t include labor, energy required to cook, depreciation on equipment, etc.

 

And it's all of those things (plus rent on a prime location, advertising, etc.) that make your city's "prime" steakhouse or upscale bistro so much more expensive than the 50-year-old hole-in-the-wall that nevertheless makes some tasty food.

 

Speaking of which, you know what they say about averages: Take a bar full of bus drivers, add Bill Gates, and the average patron's net worth is hundreds of millions of dollars. The better meals on a ship cost much more than $15, while the deck pizza or mystery chicken at the buffet...

[Mark_K]

4 hours ago, TheMichael said:

 

And it's all of those things (plus rent on a prime location, advertising, etc.) that make your city's "prime" steakhouse or upscale bistro so much more expensive than the 50-year-old hole-in-the-wall that nevertheless makes some tasty food.

 

Speaking of which, you know what they say about averages: Take a bar full of bus drivers, add Bill Gates, and the average patron's net worth is hundreds of millions of dollars. The better meals on a ship cost much more than $15, while the deck pizza or mystery chicken at the buffet...

That’s why people most often use the median when talking about income statistics.