Tracking children on board

[mjkacmom]

3 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Well, my kids are 22 and 19... So I'd definitely let them roam unsupervised... They were allowed to go to the park, or friends houses alone on their bikes at 8.

 

The consequences of helicoptering your kid aren't zero either - kids need unsupervised play.

 

...and if something bad happens? There is about a 95% chance it's someone you know and not a stranger.

My kids started walking to school at 8 but they weren’t allowed to ride bikes around town until 10).

[mz-s]

Some people on here have never learned about how much human trafficking takes place during travel. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

[aborgman]

5 minutes ago, mz-s said:

Some people on here have never learned about how much human trafficking takes place during travel. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

 

Fewer than 350 people under the age of 21 are abducted by strangers in the United States per year.

 

Fewer than 350 in a population of about 90 million under 21.

 

Flu kills 500 under 21 year olds a year.

 

 

 

 

 

[mz-s]

21 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Fewer than 350 people under the age of 21 are abducted by strangers in the United States per year.

 

Fewer than 350 in a population of about 90 million under 21.

 

Flu kills 500 under 21 year olds a year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China? Are we talking about a Mississippi River Cruise line here?

[john91498]

4 hours ago, audcc77 said:

Then let your kid run around the ship unsupervised.   
 

I stand by my opinion that the consequences of some things in life are so dire and so awful that I’m not willing to take a chance on it.  Will something bad happen? Probably not.  As a volunteer for children’s advocacy facilities, I’ve seen too much. 
 

 

Agreed. In my first career, I was a police officer. As a part of the probation, I was required to work in the city jail for 2 years. The things I witnessed was literally unimaginable. Prisoners nonchalantly talking about assaults, sa and unaliving like it was an every day normal activity. And most still didn't think they did anything wrong. Other things I don't want to discuss.

 

I lasted about 8 months before I resigned.

Edited June 19 by john91498

[Pyxie]

5 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

I was riding my bike to school, 2 miles away, at age 7.

 

...and that was 1982, when abduction and sexual assault of children rates were much higher.

 

I wonder if these rates were higher precisely because more parents allowed their kids to be unsupervised.

[aborgman]

49 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China? Are we talking about a Mississippi River Cruise line here?

 

We're talking about risk of abduction. It's vanishingly low.

 

More people get struck by lightning in the US every year than kids get abducted by strangers. Literally less common than getting struck by lightning.

 

Since 2010 when DOT started producing the "Cruise Line Incident Reports" - there has been ONE abduction total across a dozen cruise lines.

 

 

From a 2017 Department of Justice Report:

 

460,000 missing children (for the year)

105 were “stereotypical kidnappings”

Most of those 105 were teenagers.

92% of them made it home safe.

 

So about 8 of 90 million kids were abducted and had it end badly in 2017.

 

Edited June 19 by aborgman

[aborgman]

4 minutes ago, Pyxie said:

 

I wonder if these rates were higher precisely because more parents allowed their kids to be unsupervised.

 

Unlikely - almost all crimes rates were much, much higher.

 

The murder rate in 1982 was about 2x today. (9.1 vs 5.0 per 100K)

The vehicle theft rate was about 2x today (458.9 vs. 219.9 per 100K)

The larceny rate was about 2x today (3,084.9 vs 1,549.5 per 100K)

The robbery rate was about 3x today (238.9 vs. 81.6 per 100K)
The burglary rate was about 5x today (1,488.8 vs. 340.5 per 100K)

 

[Old Fart Cruisers]

5 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

I was riding my bike to school, 2 miles away, at age 7.

 

...and that was 1982, when abduction and sexual assault of children rates were much higher.

 

Child Endangerment Laws

 

An adult caring for a child has a legal responsibility to ensure that the child is free from unreasonably dangerous situations. When an adult caregiver fails to adequately protect a child, states often punish this as a crime known as "child endangerment."

Child endangerment occurs whenever a parent, guardian, or other adult caregiver allows a child to be placed or remain in a dangerous, unhealthy, or inappropriate situation. Some states charge this crime as a type of child abuse.

[aborgman]

2 minutes ago, Old Fart Cruisers said:

 

Child Endangerment Laws

 

An adult caring for a child has a legal responsibility to ensure that the child is free from unreasonably dangerous situations. When an adult caregiver fails to adequately protect a child, states often punish this as a crime known as "child endangerment."

Child endangerment occurs whenever a parent, guardian, or other adult caregiver allows a child to be placed or remain in a dangerous, unhealthy, or inappropriate situation. Some states charge this crime as a type of child abuse.

 

An 8 year old riding their bike around town is not an "unreasonably dangerous situation".

 

Legally an "unreasonably dangerous situation" is one that has "sufficient probability of a harmful event occurring that a reasonably prudent person would have foreseen it or some similar event as likely to happen."

 

 

[Old Fart Cruisers]

58 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

An 8 year old riding their bike around town is not an "unreasonably dangerous situation".

 

Legally an "unreasonably dangerous situation" is one that has "sufficient probability of a harmful event occurring that a reasonably prudent person would have foreseen it or some similar event as likely to happen."

 

 

 

But a 7-year old riding two miles unsupervised is an "unreasonably dangerous situation"

[aborgman]

14 minutes ago, Old Fart Cruisers said:

 

But a 7-year old riding two miles unsupervised is an "unreasonably dangerous situation"

 

No, it is not.

 

I mean - the legal age to leave a child home alone completely unsupervised:

 

    14 years: Illinois
    12 years: Delaware and Colorado
    11 years: Michigan
    10 years: Washington, Tennessee, Oregon, and New Mexico
    9 years: North Dakota
    8 years: North Carolina, Maryland, and Georgia
    6 years: Kansas
    No age limit: the remaining 37 states

 

[mz-s]

22 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

No, it is not.

 

I mean - the legal age to leave a child home alone completely unsupervised:

 

    14 years: Illinois
    12 years: Delaware and Colorado
    11 years: Michigan
    10 years: Washington, Tennessee, Oregon, and New Mexico
    9 years: North Dakota
    8 years: North Carolina, Maryland, and Georgia
    6 years: Kansas
    No age limit: the remaining 37 states

 

 

So just to be clear, your position is it is a good idea to leave children unattended and let them run loose on a cruise ship? I am confused at the point you're trying to make.

[kdr69]

Not sure about "separated" My son was either with us or at the Kids Club.

[aborgman]

14 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

So just to be clear, your position is it is a good idea to leave children unattended and let them run loose on a cruise ship? I am confused at the point you're trying to make.

 

Depends on the child in question.

 

For some kids (my older one) - it's a horrible idea. For other kids (my younger one) it's beneficial.

 

...but it absolutely is a bad idea to "never let an 8 year old out of sight. Ever".

 

 

Edited June 19 by aborgman

[silvercrikhix]

Not sure where these stats are coming from!

Why would anybody risk their child’s well being or innocence? 

 

https://childwatch.org/statistics/

From Child Watch of North America :

An estimated 800,000 children are reported missing each year – more than 2,000 children every day. An estimated 1 in 5 girls and 1 in 10 boys will be sexually victimized before age 18. Yet, only 1 in 3 will tell anyone.

 

—-It’s not 1967 when I was 5 yrs old and walked to school and around the 6 block radius around my home.  I actually knew who lived in every house. I have no idea who most of my neighbors are now.

[silvercrikhix]

55 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

No, it is not.

 

I mean - the legal age to leave a child home alone completely unsupervised:

 

    14 years: Illinois
    12 years: Delaware and Colorado
    11 years: Michigan
    10 years: Washington, Tennessee, Oregon, and New Mexico
    9 years: North Dakota
    8 years: North Carolina, Maryland, and Georgia
    6 years: Kansas
    No age limit: the remaining 37 states

 

Home alone is a totally different scenario than letting a child wander on the streets or around a cruise ship. Yes, children need to develop independence skills, etc… but not on a cruise ship. 🤦‍♀️ 

Edited June 19 by silvercrikhix

[Eli_6]

Put tiles or apple tags on them.  You can see where they are and page them with your phone if you lose them.  I do that with my keys.

 

This is in case you lose them accidentally. I would not let 8-year-olds run around without supervision.

Edited June 19 by Eli_6

[Eli_6]

I don't think you can leave 8-year-olds unattended per Carnival rules. I think the youngest they can sign themselves in or out of Camp Ocean is 10. 

We let our kids sign themselves in/out for the first time this year.  My boys went around the ship soliciting for their version of a "Ted talk" that they held in the Library at 8 pm on subatomic particles and physics.  They even created a tip jar.  And, shockingly, two people came to their talk.    

[aborgman]

13 minutes ago, silvercrikhix said:

Home alone is a totally different scenario than letting a child wander on the streets or around a cruise ship.

 

Yes, home alone is significantly more dangerous.

 

In terms of places your kid is most likely to get assaulted or abducted on a cruise ship:

 

1) In your cabin or the cabin of one of your traveling companions, by someone in your party

2) In Camp by an employee

3) Wandering the ship by a stranger

[john91498]

7 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

Put tiles or apple tags on them.  You can see where they are and page them with your phone if you lose them.  I do that with my keys.

 

tiles or apple tags do not work out at sea

[mjkacmom]

25 minutes ago, silvercrikhix said:

Not sure where these stats are coming from!

Why would anybody risk their child’s well being or innocence? 

 

https://childwatch.org/statistics/

From Child Watch of North America :

An estimated 800,000 children are reported missing each year – more than 2,000 children every day. An estimated 1 in 5 girls and 1 in 10 boys will be sexually victimized before age 18. Yet, only 1 in 3 will tell anyone.

 

—-It’s not 1967 when I was 5 yrs old and walked to school and around the 6 block radius around my home.  I actually knew who lived in every house. I have no idea who most of my neighbors are now.

My kids grew up in the same town we did, we know our neighbors. The world is statistically safer now than back in my day. Bad things have always happened, but we didn’t have 24/7 constant media coverage and hear about it. A few years ago I learned a child in my town was killed when I was 7, had no idea (I’m guessing my folks did). Kids need to learn independence, situational awareness, how to trust their spidy senses. The vast majority of kidnapping and assault is performed by family and friends. 

[Eli_6]

1 minute ago, john91498 said:

 

tiles or apple tags do not work out at sea

Are you sure about that?  Because we used ours to find a lost bag this past cruise.  In any event,  if the kids were stolen, you could locate them once they were on land.

Edited June 19 by Eli_6

[mjkacmom]

4 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

I don't think you can leave 8-year-olds unattended per Carnival rules. I think the youngest they can sign themselves in or out of Camp Ocean is 10. 

We let our kids sign themselves in/out for the first time this year.  My boys went around the ship soliciting for their version of a "Ted talk" that they held in the Library at 8 pm on subatomic particles and physics.  They even created a tip jar.  And, shockingly, two people came to their talk.    

I’ve never heard of a cruise line that put an age limit on being without an adult, just that children under 18 need to be in their cabin by 1 if not with an adult. The sign out thing covers their butt a bit, but please show in writing that they can’t be unattended on a ship.

[mjkacmom]

1 minute ago, Eli_6 said:

Are you sure about that?  Because we used ours to find a lost bag this past cruise.  In any event,  if the kids were stolen, you could locate them once they were on land.

lol if they were stolen I think they might just look at cameras and find them on the ship, I doubt anyone could disembark if a child went missing. That child would need a key card to even get off of the ship. Which might be why there have been zero cases of a child being kidnapped on a cruise ship.