Southampton train replaced by bus on disembarkation day

[MyriamS]

Hi everyone! On our P&O Iona cruise in June, we took the 9:30 Southampton->Waterloo train on disembarkation day. The train was completely full of fellow cruisers (a MSC ship was also in port that day) but the journey was still ok.

 

I was thinking of taking the same train upon disembarking my Regal Princess cruise on 5th October. I was dismayed, however, when I checked for tickets online and saw that the direct train replaced by a bus until Eastleigh then a train to Waterloo due to engineering works.

 

I think this could go disastrously wrong. Based on my experience in June, they would need at least half a dozen buses to comfortably fit all their passengers, as there will again be two large ships in port that day (Regal Princess + NCL Prima). So I wanted to ask regular UK cruisers: how are the bus replacement service handled? Do they bring enough buses for everybody or just one or two buses, which would mean abandoning half their passengers? I would like to believe the former, but I've learnt the hard way never to assume competence from train companies. 

[gumshoe958]

The fast Waterloo trains are actually starting from Southampton Airport Parkway that day. I’d be minded to get a taxi straight from the port to there, avoiding the buses altogether.

Rail replacement buses are generally best avoided, particularly with luggage. There’ll presumably be a queueing system outside Southampton Central and at peak time for cruise passengers (8am-11am) I would expect the queue to be pretty long.

[MyriamS]

 

2 hours ago, gumshoe958 said:

The fast Waterloo trains are actually starting from Southampton Airport Parkway that day. I’d be minded to get a taxi straight from the port to there, avoiding the buses altogether.

Rail replacement buses are generally best avoided, particularly with luggage. There’ll presumably be a queueing system outside Southampton Central and at peak time for cruise passengers (8am-11am) I would expect the queue to be pretty long.

We don't have any luggage but, if there are not enough buses, by the time we reach the front of the queue, board the bus and are driven to the airport, our connecting train will be long gone. Why do train companies get away with such nonsense? 

 

I would normally never get a taxi but we will consider it this time. There is, however, another nonsense fee of 6£ for being dropped off at Southampton Airport, would you know if this also applies to Southampton Airport Parkway station? 

[gumshoe958]

13 minutes ago, MyriamS said:

 

We don't have any luggage but, if there are not enough buses, by the time we reach the front of the queue, board the bus and are driven to the airport, our connecting train will be long gone. Why do train companies get away with such nonsense? 

 

I would normally never get a taxi but we will consider it this time. There is, however, another nonsense fee of 6£ for being dropped off at Southampton Airport, would you know if this also applies to Southampton Airport Parkway station? 

@John Bull will know better than me but if you ask the driver to drop you off at the main station entrance on the London-bound side (across the tracks from the airport), I don’t believe there’s a charge.

 

Like you I never use taxis if I can avoid it, but on this occasion I’d make an exception. 

[Globaliser]

1 hour ago, MyriamS said:

We don't have any luggage but, if there are not enough buses, by the time we reach the front of the queue, board the bus and are driven to the airport, our connecting train will be long gone. Why do train companies get away with such nonsense?

 

Part of the answer is that it's because the alternative is simply to offer no service at all that day. If a rail replacement bus is provided, that's got to be better for people who really need to travel.

 

Also, in my experience, train operating companies often have an incentive to arrange enough buses. If the bus arrangements are inadequate and you get delayed, you may get compensation.

 

An anecdote: A family member had to take a rail replacement bus to bridge a gap half way through a journey. There weren't enough buses, so he missed the onward train and had to wait an hour for the next train. That entitled him to compensation of 100% of his fare. A couple of weeks later, the same rail replacement bus was necessary to bridge the same gap. There were plenty of buses, and he made his onward train with time to spare.

 

I don't know exactly how it works if the rail replacement bus is at the beginning of the journey. But it's not like train operating companies do this stuff simply to annoy us.

[John Bull]

When I was coach-driving I occasionally failed to weedle out of driving Rail Replacement coaches. Every time I drove one there were too many buses - very boring, very repetitive, often waiting a while to be called forward. 

 

There are major track improvements that weekend (saturday & sunday) which means that trains won't be running between Southampton Airport Parkway and Bournemouth (25 miles beyond Southampton).

There will be buses running direct to the Airport Parkway from Southampton Central

The train operators are well-aware of the port cruise schedule and cruise passenger numbers & their luggage heading from Southampton Central to London & elsewhere.

The drive to the airport will be about 20 minutes, a dream on saturdays & sundays. 

 

@gumshoe958 Yes, the London-bound track is normally on the western side, the main station entrance on Wide Lane & not on the airport side. 

But because that weekend the Airport Parkway station is effectively the end of the line, trains from London might switch to the "up" track at Eastleigh (a mile or two from the airport) or stay on the "down" side until they return to Eastleigh. Or operate on alternate platforms.

@MyriamS taxi driver might know which side - or might follow a Rail Replacement bus 😉

 

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/rail-replacement-services/

 

JB 🙂

Edited July 29 by John Bull

[MyriamS]

8 hours ago, Globaliser said:

 

Part of the answer is that it's because the alternative is simply to offer no service at all that day. If a rail replacement bus is provided, that's got to be better for people who really need to travel.

 

Also, in my experience, train operating companies often have an incentive to arrange enough buses. If the bus arrangements are inadequate and you get delayed, you may get compensation.

 

An anecdote: A family member had to take a rail replacement bus to bridge a gap half way through a journey. There weren't enough buses, so he missed the onward train and had to wait an hour for the next train. That entitled him to compensation of 100% of his fare. A couple of weeks later, the same rail replacement bus was necessary to bridge the same gap. There were plenty of buses, and he made his onward train with time to spare.

 

I don't know exactly how it works if the rail replacement bus is at the beginning of the journey. But it's not like train operating companies do this stuff simply to annoy us.

I know trains in the UK are fully privatised but they remain an essential public service, so I don't think "not running trains at all" is an alternative. At least it shouldn't be. 

 

As someone living in Germany with the (almost) dual monopoly of Lufthansa and Deutsche Bahn for getting anywhere, "they have an incentive to do things right due to delay compensation" does not really reassure me. Delay compensation has never prevented DB and LH from treating their passengers like cattle, so I don't expect other companies to behave better. 

 

"They're not doing this to annoy us." Obviously not! Track works are needed, so the replacement bus make sense. However, considering the train prices in the UK are some of the highest in Europe, I think it is fair to expect them to have extra buses on standby so no one misses their connection. 

 

6 hours ago, John Bull said:

When I was coach-driving I occasionally failed to weedle out of driving Rail Replacement coaches. Every time I drove one there were too many buses - very boring, very repetitive, often waiting a while to be called forward. 

 

There are major track improvements that weekend (saturday & sunday) which means that trains won't be running between Southampton Airport Parkway and Bournemouth (25 miles beyond Southampton).

There will be buses running direct to the Airport Parkway from Southampton Central

The train operators are well-aware of the port cruise schedule and cruise passenger numbers & their luggage heading from Southampton Central to London & elsewhere.

The drive to the airport will be about 20 minutes, a dream on saturdays & sundays. 

 

@gumshoe958 Yes, the London-bound track is normally on the western side, the main station entrance on Wide Lane & not on the airport side. 

But because that weekend the Airport Parkway station is effectively the end of the line, trains from London might switch to the "up" track at Eastleigh (a mile or two from the airport) or stay on the "down" side until they return to Eastleigh. Or operate on alternate platforms.

@MyriamS taxi driver might know which side - or might follow a Rail Replacement bus 😉

 

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/rail-replacement-services/

 

JB 🙂

The train operator didn't seem to be very aware of cruise passengers when I last took this train, as people and their luggages piled on the corridors because there were no luggage rack. It was ok for us - the train got us from point A to point B on time with no change, so our needs were met. However, this doesn't fill me with confidence in their planning skills. 

[exlondoner]

Whenever I have taken a replacement bus service for scheduled works, there have been buses, and you don’t seem to have evidence there won’t be. What often causes problems are emergency closures, because of signalling, track circuit failures, collapsed embankments, etc. Then there are sometimes simply no buses available at short notice. Hard to see what the railways can do in such circumstances, except use taxis.

[John Bull]

1 hour ago, MyriamS said:

I know trains in the UK are fully privatised but they remain an essential public service, so I don't think "not running trains at all" is an alternative. At least it shouldn't be. 

 

I think @Globaliser was merely pointing out that Rail Replacement buses was the only option, & not suggesting that offering nothing was an option

 

"They're not doing this to annoy us." Obviously not! Track works are needed, so the replacement bus make sense. However, considering the train prices in the UK are some of the highest in Europe, I think it is fair to expect them to have extra buses on standby so no one misses their connection. 

 

 

UK rail fares are a contentious matter. They can be ridiculously expensive or they can be ridiculously cheap for exactly the same journey, depending whether/when you pre-book, whether you know workarounds, and what hoops you're prepared to go through.

The incoming Government has promised to take the whole shebang back into public ownership, to simplify the fares, and to ensure that travellers are well-aware of their cheapest options - but then governments are always good at making promises 🙄. 

 

As per my post, there have been times when I've been very bored sitting in the driver's seat of standby Rail Replacement coaches because they're usually over-catered.

But, as with any business, occasionally planners get caught out by significantly higher-than-expected demand or other factors.

 

On this route the proportion of passengers who need to make a train connection will be tiny - the vast vast majority who are London-bound will be headed for central London, and there are effectively no connecting train services for those travelling in the opposite direction.  .

  

1 hour ago, MyriamS said:

 

The train operator didn't seem to be very aware of cruise passengers when I last took this train, as people and their luggages piled on the corridors because there were no luggage rack. It was ok for us - the train got us from point A to point B on time with no change, so our needs were met. However, this doesn't fill me with confidence in their planning skills. 

 

Sorry, I've got no answer for that - I always drive coaches, which have large belly-lockers.

 

JB 🙂

 

[gumshoe958]

There will be replacement buses, probably more than enough, and anyone who wants one will be able to get one. But the big unknown is how long you’ll have to queue if hundreds of cruise passengers arrive within an hour or so with all their luggage. An 8 coach train can hold 700-odd passengers, at least ten busloads, and it takes time to load ten buses full of people and luggage.

 

It may be absolutely fine but I stand by my suggestion to get a taxi straight to Southampton Airport Parkway, purely to avoid the potential hassle.

[MyriamS]

51 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Whenever I have taken a replacement bus service for scheduled works, there have been buses, and you don’t seem to have evidence there won’t be. What often causes problems are emergency closures, because of signalling, track circuit failures, collapsed embankments, etc. Then there are sometimes simply no buses available at short notice. Hard to see what the railways can do in such circumstances, except use taxis.

You're right, I have no evidence that there won't be enough buses. Perhaps everything would go perfectly fine on the day, but after years of travelling, I've learnt the hard way not to plan for the best case scenario only. 

 

2 minutes ago, gumshoe958 said:

There will be replacement buses, probably more than enough, and anyone who wants one will be able to get one. But the big unknown is how long you’ll have to queue if hundreds of cruise passengers arrive within an hour or so with all their luggage. An 8 coach train can hold 700-odd passengers, at least ten busloads, and it takes time to load ten buses full of people and luggage.

 

It may be absolutely fine but I stand by my suggestion to get a taxi straight to Southampton Airport Parkway, purely to avoid the potential hassle.

That is my feeling as well. Even if the train company brings enough buses, as they seem to do most of the time according to the posts in this thread, loading up a very large number of people and their luggage onto buses is inherently less efficient than the same amount of people and their luggage boarding a train. 

 

Also I wouldn't call the trains in the UK ridiculously cheap in any circumstances, I would say prices vary from good to extortionate (I do compare the Anytime, Off-peak and Advance fares and check for Split ticketing as well). 

 

I'll try to talk my partner into taking a taxi but, if he doesn't want to, we might end up on the National Express bus, which is slower but cheaper than the train and direct. 

[Globaliser]

3 hours ago, MyriamS said:

I know trains in the UK are fully privatised but they remain an essential public service, so I don't think "not running trains at all" is an alternative. At least it shouldn't be.

 

It sometimes happens. For example, it's not practicable to run rail replacement buses to/from London mainline terminals. So when the line from one of those stations is closed, you can end up having to take a completely different route - for example, Euston to St Pancras by Tube or taxi, train to Bedford, bus to Milton Keynes, and only then head north to Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow on an Avanti West Coast service that would normally have started from Euston.

 

In your case, you have the option of a direct rail replacement bus over the closed section of the line, which usually works. You also have the option of taking a taxi to board your train at a different station - which was a great suggestion by gumshoe958, and hard to beat given that you're actually starting at the cruise terminal). You have the option of different modes of transport altogether: National Express coach, or private car all the way. You could, in extremis, travel on another day.

 

With all those choices, it's hard to see how things could go "disastrously wrong". Countless thousands of people travel between Southampton and London every day, of which cruise passengers are only a minority. There'll be no panic in the streets.

 

But as you mention DB, I do admire the creativity of their crews' delay announcements. They're more entertaining than ours.

[MyriamS]

2 minutes ago, Globaliser said:

 

It sometimes happens. For example, it's not practicable to run rail replacement buses to/from London mainline terminals. So when the line from one of those stations is closed, you can end up having to take a completely different route - for example, Euston to St Pancras by Tube or taxi, train to Bedford, bus to Milton Keynes, and only then head north to Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow on an Avanti West Coast service that would normally have started from Euston.

 

In your case, you have the option of a direct rail replacement bus over the closed section of the line, which usually works. You also have the option of taking a taxi to board your train at a different station - which was a great suggestion by gumshoe958, and hard to beat given that you're actually starting at the cruise terminal). You have the option of different modes of transport altogether: National Express coach, or private car all the way. You could, in extremis, travel on another day.

 

With all those choices, it's hard to see how things could go "disastrously wrong". Countless thousands of people travel between Southampton and London every day, of which cruise passengers are only a minority. There'll be no panic in the streets.

 

But as you mention DB, I do admire the creativity of their crews' delay announcements. They're more entertaining than ours.

That is not an option, as we have an evening flight back home. The countless people who travel between London and Southampton mostly do not, so I do not think the comparison is fair. When you're a local, the stakes are simply not as high when it comes to travel disruption, compared to when you're travelling internationally.

 

Things do go disastrously wrong sometimes. If you read my trip report for the P&O Iona, you will see we almost missed the ship despite flying in the day before. 

[Globaliser]

31 minutes ago, MyriamS said:

That is not an option, as we have an evening flight back home.

 

Where are you flying from? If that's what you're doing, there may be better options than the train to Waterloo in any event.

 

33 minutes ago, MyriamS said:

When you're a local, the stakes are simply not as high when it comes to travel disruption, compared to when you're travelling internationally.

 

This is not true. People sometimes travel within countries for much more critical purposes than merely going home after a cruise, whether that's domestic or international travel. Wherever you're going, if your journey has a more important purpose or is more time critical then it's worth looking at all of your options more carefully.

[MyriamS]

10 minutes ago, Globaliser said:

 

Where are you flying from? If that's what you're doing, there may be better options than the train to Waterloo in any event.

 

 

This is not true. People sometimes travel within countries for much more critical purposes than merely going home after a cruise, whether that's domestic or international travel. Wherever you're going, if your journey has a more important purpose or is more time critical then it's worth looking at all of your options more carefully.

Apologies, I meant that leisure travel within a country is less stressful than internationally. Obviously, if you are commuting to work, travel disruptions can be a huge pain in the neck. And even more obviously, going home from a cruise is unimportant next to far more crucial reasons such as medical problems, bereavement etc. but that is not really what we are discussing here.

 

My flight is around 6pm from Gatwick, so I thought to head to central London first and have a pleasant couple of hours there, try to have Sunday lunch with my sister who lives locally. All very unimportant indeed.

[Globaliser]

2 hours ago, MyriamS said:

My flight is around 6pm from Gatwick, so I thought to head to central London first and have a pleasant couple of hours there, try to have Sunday lunch with my sister who lives locally.

 

You'll be fine with that timing. Obviously, there are no guarantees that something won't go badly wrong on the day, but it won't be the routine operation of a rail replacement bus service that causes it - it would have to be something that would have given you serious trouble even if the trains had been running on the full normal route.

[Cotswold Eagle]

16 hours ago, MyriamS said:

I know trains in the UK are fully privatise

That's simply not true, I'm afraid. The largest operator of rail services is a public body (the so-called operator of last resort) and the network itself is in public ownership via an arm's length body. 

 

16 hours ago, MyriamS said:

so I don't think "not running trains at all" is an alternative.

It's hard to see how any Train Operating Company, however owned, can operate trains over a closure on the network, which is not in their control, Even if it was, railways frequently require repair, safety work and upgrading. So, yes, not running trains at all is often their only option, but in accordance with their franchise and regulatory requirements they will lay on alternative transport, as in this case. 

 

12 hours ago, MyriamS said:

When you're a local, the stakes are simply not as high when it comes to travel disruption, compared to when you're travelling internationally.

Wow. 

[9265359]

On 7/29/2024 at 3:26 PM, MyriamS said:

So I wanted to ask regular UK cruisers: how are the bus replacement service handled?

 

Generally quite poorly. 

 

And, amusingly, it isn't entirely unknown for the bus drivers not to know where they are going and have to rely on the passengers for directions.

 

On 7/29/2024 at 3:26 PM, MyriamS said:

Do they bring enough buses for everybody or just one or two buses, which would mean abandoning half their passengers? I would like to believe the former, but I've learnt the hard way never to assume competence from train companies. 

 

From my experience the rail company's general expectation seems to be to expect people see that it is a bus replacement service and then abandon the idea of using the train that day so they have fewer people to move and so the few buses they do provide are adequate - however in a situation like yours with lots of international passengers who may not have checked for planned engineering work... well plan for standing in a long long queue for not enough buses (or as others have suggested, just get a taxi).

 

As for mention of compensation for delays, that is usually suspended when there is planned engineering work as the customers have been told there will be delays, and even when operative is based on the (much) longer journeys involving the bus.

 

And if there are any problems on the day then you can bet all the rail staff will vanish into thin air.

[John Bull]

1 hour ago, 9265359 said:

 

Generally quite poorly. 

 

And, amusingly, it isn't entirely unknown for the bus drivers not to know where they are going and have to rely on the passengers for directions.

 

 

From my experience the rail company's general expectation seems to be to expect people see that it is a bus replacement service and then abandon the idea of using the train that day so they have fewer people to move and so the few buses they do provide are adequate - however in a situation like yours with lots of international passengers who may not have checked for planned engineering work... well plan for standing in a long long queue for not enough buses (or as others have suggested, just get a taxi).

 

As for mention of compensation for delays, that is usually suspended when there is planned engineering work as the customers have been told there will be delays, and even when operative is based on the (much) longer journeys involving the bus.

 

And if there are any problems on the day then you can bet all the rail staff will vanish into thin air.

Wow - that's as bleak and negative a view of Rail Replacement bus services as I've seen or heard.

 

Your "so the few buses they do provide are adequate" and " standing in a long long queue for not enough buses "  are contradictory. So which of those statements is correct? 🤔

As per my earlier post, I've occasionally driven RR coaches and spent much time parked-up and twiddling my thumbs because the service was over-supplied.

 

And since Govt-owned Railtrack is responsible for the infrastructure, I'm none-too-sure whether they, rather than the train operators, are responsible for financing the RR service.

 

No guarantees, because nothing in life always runs smoothly.

But IMHO you have seriously over-egged your derision

 

JB 🙂

 

 

 

[exlondoner]

7 minutes ago, John Bull said:

Wow - that's as bleak and negative a view of Rail Replacement bus services as I've seen or heard.

 

Your "so the few buses they do provide are adequate" and " standing in a long long queue for not enough buses "  are contradictory. So which of those statements is correct? 🤔

As per my earlier post, I've occasionally driven RR coaches and spent much time parked-up and twiddling my thumbs because the service was over-supplied.

 

And since Govt-owned Railtrack is responsible for the infrastructure, I'm none-too-sure whether they, rather than the train operators, are responsible for financing the RR service.

 

No guarantees, because nothing in life always runs smoothly.

But IMHO you have seriously over-egged your derision

 

JB 🙂

 

 

 

I completely agree. Planned RR buses are usually fine. When there is something like an unexpected embankment slippage, which is happening a lot at present because of the weather, the railways are scrabbling around for emergency replacements, which aren’t always possible to find. Then there is a problem.

[cheapchuck]

It appears that the rail replacement bus goes from Southampton Central to Southampton Airport Parkway where the train is boarded to London Waterloo with a change in Eastleigh.  Since Eastleigh is about 6 or so miles from Southampton, am I wrong in thinking that I could get a ticket going directly to London from Eastleigh and take a taxi to Eastleigh from the Southampton Cruise terminal.  It may be a bit more expensive, but I would avoid the hassle of the buses and the changing of trains.

[John Bull]

51 minutes ago, cheapchuck said:

It appears that the rail replacement bus goes from Southampton Central to Southampton Airport Parkway where the train is boarded to London Waterloo with a change in Eastleigh.  Since Eastleigh is about 6 or so miles from Southampton, am I wrong in thinking that I could get a ticket going directly to London from Eastleigh and take a taxi to Eastleigh from the Southampton Cruise terminal.  It may be a bit more expensive, but I would avoid the hassle of the buses and the changing of trains.

 

 

No, you don't have to change trains at Eastleigh !!

 

For most train times, replacement buses go from Southampton Central to Southampton Airport/Parkway, from there the train goes to Waterloo - it includes a stop at Eastleigh, not a change of train.

 

But for some train times, the replacement buses go from Southampton Central  direct to Eastleigh, which is just a mile-and-a-half further up the line from the airport, & you board the Waterloo-bound train there.

There'll be an operational reason for that, it's not something they'll do for fun

 

The bus will take folk to one station or the other, where they'll board a train to Waterloo, plain & simple.

 

JB 🙂