Carnival loyalty means nothing anymore

[Oletruckdude]

23 minutes ago, vwrestler171 said:

They likely did.  They always send out emails explaining why priority boarding is suspended.  It happens on every longer cruise and the majority of European cruises.

I can see both sides of this issue. However, from where I'm standing an email to many of your most loyal customers explaining how they're losing an earned perk doesn't seem like good marketing to me. Maybe an email explaining a substitute perk in place of the lost perk might be a better marketing ploy? The opportunities are limitless. What would you suggest?

Seems like marketing 101 to me... Keep your customers happy to EARN their repeat business. 

My two cents worth.

Edited September 13 by Oletruckdude

[BlerkOne]

Resources are limited on a cruise line and have to be shared by all the entitles. As it is, Carnival rewards bad behavior too often .Better to let them go than encourage more bad behavior.

[vwrestler171]

52 minutes ago, Oletruckdude said:

I can see both sides of this issue. However, from where I'm standing an email to many of your most loyal customers explaining how they're losing an earned perk doesn't seem like good marketing to me. Maybe an email explaining a substitute perk in place of the lost perk might be a better marketing ploy? The opportunities are limitless. What would you suggest?

Seems like marketing 101 to me... Keep your customers happy to EARN their repeat business. 

My two cents worth.

When everyone is priority, what do you do?  They can't accommodate everyone.  That's why they are revamping the VIFP program.

[Oletruckdude]

11 minutes ago, vwrestler171 said:

When everyone is priority, what do you do?  They can't accommodate everyone.  That's why they are revamping the VIFP program.

Hence, my suggestion that they substitute another perk for the one being removed. Maybe at minimum a free drink? Maybe something better? 

They could easily do this without the need to pull the rug out from under their loyal customers and chance leaving them with a bad taste in their mouths, so to speak. 

We ARE talking about customers that spend literally tens of thousands of dollars with Carnival over a long period is time. With most companies these customers would be considered the cream of the crop and worthy of consideration for retainment.

Again, my two cents worth. Feel free to disagree. That's what these boards are for.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Oletruckdude said:

Hence, my suggestion that they substitute another perk for the one being removed. Maybe at minimum a free drink? Maybe something better? 

They could easily do this without the need to pull the rug out from under their loyal customers and chance leaving them with a bad taste in their mouths, so to speak. 

We ARE talking about customers that spend literally tens of thousands of dollars with Carnival over a long period is time. With most companies these customers would be considered the cream of the crop and worthy of consideration for retainment.

Again, my two cents worth. Feel free to disagree. That's what these boards are for.

We agree to disagree. Carnival Cruise isn't looking for customers who need a perk to cruse Carnival. They want customers who like the brand for what it is. When one resource has been exhausted, it makes no sense to abuse a second and irritate other customers.

 

No company retains 100% of customers and to grow the business requires new customers. New customers are where it's at and novice cruisers (and gamblers - who basically cruise free) are Carnival's target markets, it seems. Everyone else who wants the Funship is welcome, but not at the expense of the target market.

 

 

 

 

[Oletruckdude]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

We agree to disagree. Carnival Cruise isn't looking for customers who need a perk to cruse Carnival. They want customers who like the brand for what it is. When one resource has been exhausted, it makes no sense to abuse a second and irritate other customers.

 

No company retains 100% of customers and to grow the business requires new customers. New customers are where it's at and novice cruisers (and gamblers - who basically cruise free) are Carnival's target markets, it seems. Everyone else who wants the Funship is welcome, but not at the expense of the target market.

 

 

 

 

Yes, we will agree to disagree. 

You said "They want customers who like the brand for what it is". Part of getting customers to like the brand is marketing perks to retain loyalty. Every service oriented company in the world knows this. People aren't going to love Carnival without reason. And loyalty is earned, not given. Which is why Carnival offers perks to begin with. 

You said Carnival's target market is "novice cruisers and gamblers that cruise free". I believe this to be partially true, in that Carnival wants novice cruisers to become loyal repeat cruisers, and for gamblers to receive the free offers to cruise with Carnival they must first be repeat, hence loyal, cruisers. So my point is Carnival isn't going to throw out the baby with the bath water. They want those repeat "loyal" cruisers to keep coming back to Carnival. Hence the perks. Perks people feel they have earned with their cold hard cash. They may not amount to much in dollar value but when they're taken away without consideration of the people that earned them then there's going to be hard feelings. And again my point is that there is no need for carnival to do so. Show some appreciation to the folks who have supported this company for decades and treat them as though they really matter. 

Off my soapbox now. 

Enjoy your cruise!

[BlerkOne]

Carnival differences

 

Funships

Guys Burgers

Comedy Clubs

Piano Bars

 

Etc

 

Bribes to cruise? Exit to RCL 

 

Carnival's target market has always been novice cruisers. Okay dinner has arrived. Peace out 

[aborgman]

9 hours ago, Oletruckdude said:

Seems like marketing 101 to me... Keep your customers happy to EARN their repeat business. 

My two cents worth.

 

Keep your customers happy for less than the increased profit their repeat business generates.

 

...and on average - brand new cruisers spend more than repeat cruisers.

 

So if you can fill boats with new cruisers - enticing old cruisers is just wasting money, other than banking on them being around when times get worse.

[aborgman]

7 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

We agree to disagree. Carnival Cruise isn't looking for customers who need a perk to cruse Carnival. They want customers who like the brand for what it is.

 

 

Nope.

 

They want customers who generate the best differential of revenue and cost to attract.

 

Whichever customers generate the most PROFIT - however that is achieved is who they want.

 

If the perks attracted customers who spent enough more to significantly overcome the cost of that perk - Carnival would want that customer. Problem is - the perks don't do that.

 

[ledges1]

I will turn Diamond on my next cruise and my wife turned Diamond on our last cruise. I have only cruised on Carnival. So, my knowledge about other cruise lines is limited to second hand information. I have cruised Carnival mainly because I can drive to numerous ports very easily (NO, Mobile, Jacksonville and PC). I am flying to Miami in November. Flying is a pain, getting there is ok, the getting home is an all day event. Sitting in the airport is not pleasant. Therefore I drive, the perk is the close proximity and year round availability of Carnival. As to guest on a ship, Carnival needs the new guest for the spring break summer time season. Lots of kids, young adults partying and middle age adults letting their hair down. This equates to big spending by the guest. Carnival needs the older adults to fill the ships in the fall and winter. This, in my opinion, is where the long term cruisers fill up the ships and the diamond and platinum becomes too numerous. This is where I fall in the equation. The perks are not that important. Most of the giveaways are inexpensive items that I give away. The only interest I have on each cruise is “what will it be this time”. I have a drawer full of pins that I never look at. I enjoy the free drink, priority boarding (do not always use it based on arrival at port) and the laundry service (got to keep my t-shirts clean and pack lighter). So what does all this mean, I do not know. Maybe, just maybe, we are not as important as we think we are. But I guarantee you, a full cruise fare will get you a free cup of coffee on the Lido deck.

[angelsfort]

2 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Keep your customers happy for less than the increased profit their repeat business generates.

 

...and on average - brand new cruisers spend more than repeat cruisers.

 

So if you can fill boats with new cruisers - enticing old cruisers is just wasting money, other than banking on them being around when times get worse.

can you please share your source of info, that supports your comment that brand new cruisers spend more than repeat cruisers?

I feel that the opposite is true...  repeat cruisers are more likely to go to the specialty restaurants on board (because they've been to the MDR many times), they're more likely to be paying for the longer cruises too (they've learned that shorter cruises are more chaotic) and also pay that extra money for the better cabins. 

[aborgman]

50 minutes ago, angelsfort said:

can you please share your source of info, that supports your comment that brand new cruisers spend more than repeat cruisers?

I feel that the opposite is true...  repeat cruisers are more likely to go to the specialty restaurants on board (because they've been to the MDR many times), they're more likely to be paying for the longer cruises too (they've learned that shorter cruises are more chaotic) and also pay that extra money for the better cabins. 

 

 

Interestingly enough - data seems to suggest that the biggest spenders are 1st time repeaters, followed by 1st time cruisers, followed by multiple repeaters.

 

There are a number of different papers exploring this - but in general it appears that new customers book further out, are less sensitive to room price (they pay about $30 more per person for a balcony room than repeat cruisers for example), take shorter cruises, are significantly younger (and have the level of income at that earlier age), travel from further away, take more excursions...

Edited September 13 by aborgman

[jimbo5544]

11 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

 

Interestingly enough - data seems to suggest that the biggest spenders are 1st time repeaters, followed by 1st time cruisers, followed by multiple repeaters.

 

There are a number of different papers exploring this - but in general it appears that new customers book further out, are less sensitive to room price (they pay about $30 more per person for a balcony room than repeat cruisers for example), take shorter cruises, are significantly younger (and have the level of income at that earlier age), travel from further away, take more excursions...

I am pretty much sure that the data would back up your post.  New or less frequent cruisers, on average, spend more per person.  There is absolutely no doubt that Carnival wants the new cruiser business, that combined with many homeports (and the lack of need to travel by to get to home ports are their sweet spot.  My view on the Op's post is that this all comes together in a blend, the above along with the old combines and makes their client list, new cruisers and more frequent seasoned cruisers.

[BlerkOne]

5 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Nope.

 

They want customers who generate the best differential of revenue and cost to attract.

 

Whichever customers generate the most PROFIT - however that is achieved is who they want.

 

If the perks attracted customers who spent enough more to significantly overcome the cost of that perk - Carnival would want that customer. Problem is - the perks don't do that.

 

Yep. As in they aren't going to get in a bidding war for customers.

 

There are many types of profit including short, medium, long term. Maximizing short term profit isn't long term planning.

 

No loyalty program is sustainable without change, and not in the perk seeker's interest.

[aswmammoth]

We definitely noticed the uptick of first time cruisers sailing on the Jubilee this summer.  We are sailing 12 nights on the Venezia later this year and are shocked at how many first time cruisers will be on that sailing as well (not just for Carnival, first time ever cruising).

 

My wife will turn Platinum on this cruise and is happy to get the status and before the supposed VIFP program changes coming soon.  Interested to see how the perks will change if at all.  My guess is the thresholds for status tiers will increase, whether they keep it at nights sailed or switch to $$ spent.  Maybe even add a tier between Gold and Platinum.  Even on non-Journeys cruises there are huge numbers of Plats and Diamonds so I wouldn't be surprised at the tiers being adjusted.

 

Could look something like this:  Gold - 30 nights, New tier - 50, Platinum - 100, Diamond - 250.  Most likely anyone would keep status earned by certain time.  Would love to see some new perks that comparable lines are offering (wifi discount, more drink coupons/package discount, BOGO specialty dining, etc) but not too optimistic.

[aborgman]

31 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Yep. As in they aren't going to get in a bidding war for customers.

 

 

As long as the customers they're bidding for generate more profit minus bid cost than customers they don't have to bid for - they absolutely are.

 

The only ethical/ideological imperative here is "maximize profit". They don't give a darn what type of cruiser does that, or what they have to do to get them.

[dolphinsfan246]

4 hours ago, angelsfort said:

can you please share your source of info, that supports your comment that brand new cruisers spend more than repeat cruisers?

I feel that the opposite is true...  repeat cruisers are more likely to go to the specialty restaurants on board (because they've been to the MDR many times), they're more likely to be paying for the longer cruises too (they've learned that shorter cruises are more chaotic) and also pay that extra money for the better cabins. 

I could see it being true. Just speaking for myself, in my earlier cruises our sail and sign account would always go over $1,000 for the week. But now, going on cruise #14 and our sail and sign account barely ever gets over $400.
 

When we were new to cruising, we loved to pose at every photo background, felt the need to buy all those said photos. Now we take our own in photogenic spots and don’t buy any. I used to love to buy all kinds of merch from the Fun shops, now I have so much I don’t feel the need to buy anything there anymore. We used to play Bingo a lot , after so many losses we cut that out too. I’m sure other people are like me, once you cruise a lot you really start to notice where you don’t have to spend money. 

[bar1068]

13 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival differences

 

Funships

Guys Burgers

Comedy Clubs

Piano Bars

 

Etc

 

Bribes to cruise? Exit to RCL 

 

Carnival's target market has always been novice cruisers. Okay dinner has arrived. Peace out 

Please define these RCL bribes you speak of?

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

As long as the customers they're bidding for generate more profit minus bid cost than customers they don't have to bid for - they absolutely are.

 

The only ethical/ideological imperative here is "maximize profit". They don't give a darn what type of cruiser does that, or what they have to do to get them.

I'll say it again. No loyalty program is sustainable without change. NO, they can't give away more than the ship has. Period.

[Stick93]

3 hours ago, bar1068 said:

Please define these RCL bribes you speak of?

The bribes are the jealousy of a better loyalty program. You get much more your your loyalty on Royal and hence the carnival loyalist call them bribes. 
 

4-5 free drinks a day - everyday 

free picture per adult 

free day or more  of internet 

a lounge with with quick foods/dessert/coffe

plus a few more odds and ends of money off things spent like the kids spending at arcade, 
 

These are good bribes and their ships are just as fun with better entertainment - 

 

 

[BlerkOne]

People who live in states without an income tax may think they are getting away with something, but the state isn't printing money. They are collecting t elsewhere. I prefer not to subsidize others largesse. There is no envy.

[jimbo5544]

13 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

I'll say it again. No loyalty program is sustainable without change. NO, they can't give away more than the ship has. Period.

Bingo

[cuccicruisers]

Maybe I don’t buy the photos but I’ve lost track of how many newbies we’ve taken with us and now they are hooked on Carnival. 
  
 

[jimbo5544]

20 minutes ago, cuccicruisers said:

Maybe I don’t buy the photos but I’ve lost track of how many newbies we’ve taken with us and now they are hooked on Carnival. 
  
 

the way they want it to work.  Win, win

[JMAE]

16 hours ago, Stick93 said:

The bribes are the jealousy of a better loyalty program. You get much more your your loyalty on Royal and hence the carnival loyalist call them bribes. 
 

4-5 free drinks a day - everyday 

free picture per adult 

free day or more  of internet 

a lounge with with quick foods/dessert/coffe

plus a few more odds and ends of money off things spent like the kids spending at arcade, 

 

I can see the addition of a free digital picture and a day or two of internet since there isn't a direct expense to the cruise line.  The photographers are already snapping the pictures, and the internet is already in place on the ships.  I think these are the types of changes we will see.