Help! Flight on Air France and Delta to Med. Is a Mess

[katiebeth]

I need some advice. We booked flights last August on Air France from Atlanta to Barcelona and then back from Venice. We are a party of six including my husband and myself, our two children ages 10 and 12, and my parents who are in their mid-seventies. Air France booked us on Delta to Atlanta from Tallahassee. We are meeting my parents in Atlanta at the airport and they are flying in from Peoria, Illinois on Delta.

 

Delta and Air France are part of the SkyTeam Alliance and are partner airlines. Since booking our flights both airlines have made changes to their schedules. The most recent change has turned into a nightmare connection for my parents. Delta has eliminated several flights from Peoria to Atlanta and now only offers two morning flights. They changed my parents late afternoon flight to a flight that departs Peoria at 9:40 in the morning which gets into Atlanta around 12:30. The problem is we don't depart Atlanta until 9:30 p.m. on Air France to Paris and then onto Barcelona. Obviously, this would be a brutal schedule on even someone in their twentys who is in great health. It is totally unreasonable for those who are elderly. Obviously, no one in their right mind would book this sort of connection prior to a transatlantic flight.

 

Our travel agent who is with American Express spent several hours on the phone last night with both airlines. Neither is willing to make any accomodations, because both carriers have made changes since the original bookingl. There are a several Delta flights available prior to the 9:30 p.m. Air France flight which would make the layover much shorter. However, neither carrier is willing to make the change.

 

Our schedule changed, as well, and we now have a five hour layover in Atlanta instead of 2 and 1/2. The return has changed also and we are now getting into Atlanta too late for my parents to make the last flight of the day to Peoria so they will have to overnight in Atlanta and fly out the next day.

 

We booked business class last August because the rates were good. My husband and I are both Gold Medallion with Delta and no one is willing to help.

 

Our travel agent is going to talk with his supervisor and see if they can work something out with the airlines. I feel like I am being held hostage and entirely at the mercy of both carriers. I am hoping that American Express has some type of leverage with the airlines. Fortunately, I did book through American Express, otherwise I would have no advocate. I tried calling each of the airlines myself and got nowhere. In fact, neither was aware of the changes that were being made by the other carrier. They both have different flight schedules for us as a result.

 

I am shocked that I may have no recourse and am totally at their mercy. I would have NEVER booked this type of schedule.

 

Does anyone have any advice? Any comments would be appreciated.

 

Thank you

[cusyl]

Why not just spend the time together at the airport visiting and window shopping? Find a nice restaurant and just relax for a while? Since you are flying business class perhaps there is a special first class lounge that you can wait in. If they can't make any other arrangements you may as well enjoy your time together. Good luck and have a great trip.

Would there be any day rooms available at Atlanta where they could take a nap?

[katiebeth]

Cusyl,

 

I appreciate your comments and normally we do try to make the best of a situation. However, my parents are 75 and 76 and I am not sure they are up for a total of 24 hours in route to Barcelona. They will be in the Atlanta airport for 9 hours prior to their transatlantic flight to Paris which is another 8 and 1/2 to 9 hours and then a 90 minute layover in Paris and then a 2 and 1/2 hour flight to Barcelona.

 

The reason I book so far in advance is so that I can get the connections we would like. We paid a substantial amount of money for these tickets and the schedule we have now is not even close to the one we originally booked. To further complicate matters, we have paper tickets with the original schedule. Because Air France and Delta have changed both schedules independently of each, each carrier has a different schedule in their system for us. They can't even reconcile it to give us new e-tickets or paper tickets. Neither carrier's itinerary for us reflects the changes the other has made.

 

I understand that schedules change and we need to be prepared for it. However, I believe this schedule has changed beyond what any reasonable person would expect. Changing a schedule by an hour or two is one thing, but I think 9 hours is not at all reasonable. The fact of the matter is there are several flights (all with seats available) that would be much more managable. It's really a case of neither carrier "stepping up to the plate" and doing what is right. At the time I booked, I had the choice of other carriers and would have never booked the schedule as it stands now.

 

Nancy

[nparmelee]

I can relate to the issues of having your flights change quite a bit, that's one of the risks of booking really early, our flights home are completely different now from what they were when I originally booked. It sounds like the Delta and Air France flights were booked separately? We have on leg of our flights on Air France, rest on Delta, and even when the Air France leg had changes, I was able to take care of everything with the Delta customer support folks. If flights have changed that much, how about having your folks fly to Atlanta one day early, get a good rest, and then meet you all at the airport closer to the flight time?

 

Definitely take advantage of the lounges at the Atlanta airport, I know we plan on doing that!

[katiebeth]

nparmalee,

 

Thanks for taking time to post. Surprisingly, the Air France and Delta portions were booked all at the same time through Air France. It is all on one ticket. I think that is what is so frustrating is that they were not booked independently at all. We can't figure out why Air France and Delta are not communicating with each other.

 

We have had our schedules changed many times previously with Delta as we fly them alot. Anytime that has happened and the new flights don't work for us we call and they try their best to accomodate us on other flights. I think the problem here is that their are two airlines involved, both who have made schedule changes, and neither is willing to take the necessary action to resolve the situation.

 

I am hoping that American Express will be able to resolve it soon. I guess we all live and learn. I just assumed since they are "partner" airlines that meant that they would work together and their systems would be compatible.

 

I am sure things will work out in the end.

 

Nancy

[Globaliser]

katiebeth,

 

When are these flights for? As far as I can see (on a relatively random search), the afternoon flight from Peoria to Atlanta has only been cancelled one day a week (Saturday). Does that match what's happened here?

 

If so, then two possible options would be to fly to Atlanta one day earlier, and then have a full 24 hour stay there before flying on to Europe (as nparmalee suggests), or to fly the entire original schedule one day earlier and stay one night in Venice.

 

I have to say, though, that I wouldn't myself call the new schedule "brutal" at all. I know that it's now a 9-hour layover in Atlanta rather than a 2½-hour layover, but if they're flying business class, they'll have access to the lounges. I don't believe that Air France has its own lounge at Atlanta, but the Delta lounge there isn't bad (although it's now been a few years since I was physically in it), and I've spent more than my fair share of time sitting happily for many hours in airport lounges all over the world between flights.

 

The apparent "non-communication" between the airlines regarding the smaller schedule changes will probably be because they use different reservations systems. The reservation record held by your travel agent is likely to be the most accurate one, and you can always check the details of each flight against the schedules appearing on the website of the airline which is actually operating each flight.

[katiebeth]

Globaliser,

 

Yes, it happens to be on Saturday, June 3rd. Our travel agent is working with both airlines to see what we can do to get things resolved. The problem that we are running into is that neither airline has a record of the changes made by the other. Air France's system is still reflecting that my parents are on a afternoon flight to Atlanta. In addition, Delta's system is still reflecting our original reservation from Venice to Paris and then Atlanta (a 7:30 a.m. flight on AF to Paris and then 10:15 a.m. flight from Paris to Atlanta. However, Air France has changed us to a 12:40 out of Venice connecting with a 3:30 ish in Paris to Atlanta. Anyway, I think the reason they are unable to change the schedule is because neither system is accurately portraying what the schedule really is.

 

I know this all a little (alot confusing) but I am hopeful it will all be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

 

Thanks for taking the time to post.

 

Nancy

[laughoutloud]

Hi Nancy.

 

I'm a Travel agent & I know what you're going through. Your Amex agency should be able to handle this one easily.

 

1. The reservation was done by Air France, the ticket was paid to Air France. They are the only ones you will need to deal with, not Delta.

 

2. If for some reason Air France cannot see the Delta schedule change in their system (unusual), they are resposible for conacting Delta for the new schedule. Stay on thr line while they resolve this.

 

3. Most airlines will re-issue or refund tickets due to a schedule change that results in a difference of 90 minutes or greater.

 

4. Speak with a supervisor at Air France and explain that the current schedule change in not acceptable, and that you would like the ticket to be chaged without penalties.

 

Good luck!

[Globaliser]

The problem that we are running into is that neither airline has a record of the changes made by the other. Air France's system is still reflecting that my parents are on a afternoon flight to Atlanta. In addition, Delta's system is still reflecting our original reservation from Venice to Paris and then Atlanta (a 7:30 a.m. flight on AF to Paris and then 10:15 a.m. flight from Paris to Atlanta. However, Air France has changed us to a 12:40 out of Venice connecting with a 3:30 ish in Paris to Atlanta. Anyway, I think the reason they are unable to change the schedule is because neither system is accurately portraying what the schedule really is.

I think that the problem here is that because you're flying on two airlines, each only has an accurate record of the flights that you're taking with them. The schedule changes made by each airline should have been queued through to your travel agent but there's no necessary reason why they should have been queued to the other airline. I know it's not very joined-up, but that's often the way things work. I hope that your TA can get this, at least, sorted out.

 

Having had a closer look at the schedules for the day you're booked to travel, my advice would be not to press for an earlier Atlanta-Paris flight than you're booked on. This is because the 2130 flight on your original booking looks like it's the only Air France-operated flight that day. All three of the earlier flights are operated by Delta. Although nothing can be guaranteed, I suspect that you'd get looked after better by AF than by DL.

 

It is also possible that the fare on which you've booked is simply not valid for travel on the DL flights. Your TA may be able to tell you whether this is the hiccup.

 

I have to say that I'm a bit baffled by why your return flights have been changed, as there are no schedule problems with earlier connections. The only thing that rings a bell is that it looks like the trans-Atlantic flight that you're now booked on is operated by AF - so it may be that your original booking was to have been on a trans-Atlantic that was to have been operated by AF but is now to be operated by DL instead (partners swapping the operating burden between them, perhaps?).

[katiebeth]

Dear LaughoutLoud and Globaliser,

 

Thanks for posting. I am somewhat surprised that my TA is having such a difficult time sorting this out as well. He said he spent two hours on the phone with Delta and Air France last night and needs to call his supervisor in for assistance.

 

Globaliser, I think you are exactly right as to why our schedule was changed on the way back from Venice. It appears to me that Air France now only has one flight a day from Atlanta to Paris and vice a versa. I do think the 10:15 a.m. from Paris to Atlanta was operated by Air France when we originally booked. I do think the only Air France operated flight from Paris to Atlanta currently is the 3:30 p.m.

 

Thank you both for taking time to respond.

 

Nancy

[FlyerTalker]

A couple of additional thoughts....

 

1) The DL/AF non-communication is because they use different reservation systems (DL is on Worldspan, AF on Amadeus). This needs to be resolved by direct communication between the two airlines. If you're a GM with DL, use the SMS (Special Member Services) people to help out. Have all of your locators handy when you are on the phone. If need be, call DL on your landline and AF on your cell at the same time so you have everyone working together.

 

2) If you are all flying in business, you can use any of the DL Crown Rooms at ATL for the day of your travel. This means your folks can rest up there and not have to sit in the gate area while waiting for you and for the flight to CDG. I would recommend the "Center Point" club in A (above Chili's restaurant) as it doesn't get the traffic that the other clubs do. Don't go to the B10 club, as it is a closet - A17 can be a zoo as well. The E clubs are great in the morning, as they are empty. Also, there is a shower in the E club, if you want one before you go across the pond. Transfer out to the E biz lounge about 1 1/2 hours before your flight, so you can be convenient to the E gates.

 

3) If the idea of sitting in the club is still tiring, look into getting a dayroom at one of the hotels near the airport. Then your folk can nap while waiting for you and the flight.

[nparmelee]

Katiebeth, we are also going through Atlanta on June 3 on our way to Rome. If we see a group of 6 around that might be you, we'll introduce ourselves. We're flying budiness and will be using the crown clubs in Atlanta between flights. Lots of good options from the others, so please let us all know how it ends up working out.

[katiebeth]

Still have not heard from my TA. He started working on this yesterday and was suppose to get back with me today but have not heard anything, yet.

 

FlyerTalk- Thanks for the tips regarding the Delta Crown Room lounges in Atlanta. We frequently fly through Atlanta as we live in Tallahassee, Fl. and Delta is the only game in town. (all flights go through Atlanta). However, we generally end up in which ever Crown Lounge is located in the concourse we are flying out of. I will definitely pass along your recommendations to my parents.

 

Nparmalee--Maybe will run into each other in Atlanta. I hope you have a wonderful trip and everything goes as planned.

 

Happy Sailings,

 

Nancy

[celmed]

I would recommend the "Center Point" club in A (above Chili's restaurant) as it doesn't get the traffic that the other clubs do.

The Centerpoint CRC in A is the best but it's only open Mon-Fri and they are flying on Sat.

I recommend the Biz Elite lounge in E.

[Globaliser]

Globaliser, I think you are exactly right as to why our schedule was changed on the way back from Venice. It appears to me that Air France now only has one flight a day from Atlanta to Paris and vice a versa. I do think the 10:15 a.m. from Paris to Atlanta was operated by Air France when we originally booked. I do think the only Air France operated flight from Paris to Atlanta currently is the 3:30 p.m.

OK - If that was the case, then it's possible that you may find that your fare is only valid on Air France-operated flights between Atlanta and Paris. Sometimes, some cheap fares have conditions that are like that. I don't know whether it's the case for your tickets, but if that's the answer that comes back from your TA's investigations then it may well be exactly right.

[katiebeth]

Globaliser,

 

Thanks for posting again. I do think its possible that the fare we paid for is only good on Air France operated flights from Atlanta to Paris and back. We did purchase a business class fare but it was discounted and included restriction in terms of being non-refundable and $400.00 change fee.

 

I still have not heard back from our TA and am a little frustrated. He works for American Express and only works Tues. Wed. Fri. and Sat. I have a feeling I won't hear anything until tomorrow. I may call American Express and see if I can speak with someone else. I am afraid that the longer we wait the more limited our options will be as seats continue to be book up on other flights.

 

I am interested in LaughoutLouds comment regarding the "90 minute rule". She is a TA and indicated that if an airline changes your flight by more than 90 minutes that they are obligated to either refund or re-issue the tickets. I am not sure if that applies in this case, but our flights have been changed by substantially more than 90 minutes on a couple of the legs. I am not interested in a refund but would be appreciative if we could change to flights with better connections. Our original itinerary had very reasonable connections. (with the exception of only 1 hour to change planes at CDG which I have read could be a problem, but that is an entirely different issue).

 

Thanks for taking the time to post. I will let everyone know what I find out.

 

Nancy

[Globaliser]

I am interested in LaughoutLouds comment regarding the "90 minute rule". She is a TA and indicated that if an airline changes your flight by more than 90 minutes that they are obligated to either refund or re-issue the tickets. I am not sure if that applies in this case, but our flights have been changed by substantially more than 90 minutes on a couple of the legs. I am not interested in a refund but would be appreciative if we could change to flights with better connections. Our original itinerary had very reasonable connections. (with the exception of only 1 hour to change planes at CDG which I have read could be a problem, but that is an entirely different issue).

Even if the rule applies, it may well be that it won't help you if your fare is only valid on the AF-operated flights on the trans-Atlantic sector. If so, you may find that you have to regard the trans-Atlantic flights that you're booked on as the only available flights, and that the DL-operated flights might as well not exist for these purposes because your tickets are simply not valid for travel on them. In that case, no further changing of flights on the days that you want to travel will make the connections any better than they are: You basically already have the best possible connections that your tickets offer.

[jla418]

Hey Nancy,

 

Sorry to hear about the troubles, and I hope it all gets worked out for you. One suggestion as a last resort may be to look into getting a "day" room for your folks at one of the airport hotels. At least if they have to stay that long for the connection they would have a place to go outside of the airport. Since the schedule changes by the airline caused the problem, their personnel in Atlanta may be able to help with getting at least a discounted rate, but I'd try to get them to cover the cost if possible. The TA may be able to help as well. I know the 9+ hour layover between flights is extreame, but I'd rather have it too long than too short.

[katiebeth]

Globaliser,

 

You may be exactly right. The term "it is what it is" may very well apply to this situation. Even if the Delta operated flights are an option, I must admit I have mixed feelings given their current financial situation and the potential for a strike. I know Delta has reached a "tentative" agreement with their pilots union but the pilots have not yet voted so I think things are still a bit up in the air. If we switch to transatlantic Delta flights, I am wondering what will happen if they stop operating? We did purchase our tickets through Air France, but I am uncertain if they would be obligated to find us alternative flights. I agree too with your comment regarding in-flight service on Air France being better than Delta. We fly frequently on Delta as it is really the "only game in town" in Tallahassee and their inflight service has declined significantly over the past few years. It's almost like flying a "no-frills" airline, domestically anyway. (even in First class). I am sure it is better internationally but it may not compare favorably with Air France.

 

I will keep everyone posted.

 

Nancy

[katiebeth]

O.K. Any TA's out there? I am really confused. I just received an e-mail from my TA and he is claiming that neither Air France nor Delta is willing to do anything with regards to all of the schedule changes. The problem is that each carrier has a totally different schedule for us than the other. Each has made changes on various segments with no notification to the other carrier. I am holding paper tickets (issued in August) that do not at all reflect the current schedule.

 

Am I wrong to assume that these tickets are not valid as they do not match up with the current schedule each carrier has for us? Air France's schedule is not reflecting any of the changes made by Delta and Delta is not reflecting any of the changes made by Air France. As I stated earlier we ticketed everything at the same time through Air France.

 

I am very surprised that my TA at American Express can not get a handle on this issue. He is claiming that he has to turn it over to customer relations at American Express to work out these issues.

 

I really can't believe he doesn't have the capability of getting both carriers on the line at the same time and working it out.

 

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Nancy

[critterchick]

I'm not a TA, but I do know that Delta has an international desk. DH had to call them when we redeemed some Sky Miles to fly on Air France. They had access to AF's reservation system, too (that or they put him on hold while they called, I'm not sure). Perhaps they can help you sort it all out. I think the telephone number is on their website somewhere. Good luck!

 

I like jla's suggestion of a "day" hotel room for your folks. That way they could nap comfortably in between flights.

[katiebeth]

I wanted to let everyone know that I received a call from Air France yesterday regarding all of the changes made to our schedule in June. The gentleman that called had no idea we were already aware of all the changes and were in the process of working with American Express to try to find a schedule that was more managable.

 

Anyway, the gentleman from Air France was absolutely terrific. I believe he worked at the coordination desk and was definitely experienced in working out the computer glitches between Air France and Delta. He did not seemed surprised at all by our predictment.

 

I tried for several days to work this out by calling Delta and Air France myself and got nowhere. My TA ran into the same problem and finally gave up and referred the situation to American Express customer relations.

 

Anyway, the gentleman from Air France was a gem. He ended up putting all of us on non-stop flights on Delta from Atlanta to Barcelona and then return from Venice to Atlanta. The connection times in Atlanta are greatly reduced and my parents do not have to overnight in Atlanta on the return. He has them flying out of Bloomington, Il. and back into Peoria, Il. They live about 30 minutes from Bloomington and 20 from Peoria so it all works out nicely.

 

We love the idea of a non-stop to Barcelona and then return from Venice. We are giving up flying on a Boeing 777 with Air France and will instead be on a 767-300 (an older aircraft) with Delta, but will not have to transfer through Paris. (which based on what I have read is pretty awful). We paid for Business class on Air France and they are accomodating us in Business Elite on Delta. In-flight service may be better on Air France but I am sure we will be well taken care of on Delta.

 

Now let's all hope that the pilots will vote to approve the tentative agreement they have reached with management.

 

Overall, very happy with our new schedule. Again, the gentleman from Air France was outstanding.

 

Thanks everyone for the helpful responses.

 

Nancy

[cusyl]

PHEWWWWWWWWWWW THAT'S what I call service...congrates on your non stop, that's awsome.

[katiebeth]

Cusyl,

 

Thanks for the kind reply. It really is quite remarkable. I was feeling pretty frustrated by the whole situation last week.

 

I really can't sing the praises of Achille (the gentleman from Air France) enough! I really had run into road block after road block. In fact, it got to the point that the connection times were secondary. I was starting to get concerned about the two carriers not communicating about all the changes and not beng able to reconcile the schedules. (especially when my TA couldn't get a resolution)

 

Achille was definitely "my knight in shining armor"!!

 

Happy Sailings Everyone!

 

Nancy

[greatam]

Nancy,

 

Your news is really fantastic. Amazingly, there is still some customer service left in this world. Thank goodness you don't have to worry about your parents anymore. Relax and enjoy your trip!!!

 

Gina