Qm2

[Cynfor]

I have just returned from a cruise on the QM2. As a smoker I was surprised at the changes to the smoking area in the Golden Lion Bar, now only 5 tables in quite a large area. As these were usually taken by non smokers this reduced the bar on many occasions to a non smoking area. The non smoking area was in the main only 50% full at the most, and we would not go in that area to smoke. I was on the QM2 18 months ago and the area and the area was much larger. The other areas were unchanged. So why the pub area a traditional smoking area in Britain.

[Haze]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that a no Smoking law has just gone into effect in Briatain (according to family that was here visiting with us) and smoking is no longer permitted in the pubs.

[pepperrn]

. So why the pub area a traditional smoking area in Britain.

 

Hi Cynfor

 

Maybe they are bringing the Golden Lion into line with land based pubs, from next summer, no smoking in pubs in Britain. Maybe they have found that they didn't need such a large area because they are carrying less smokers these days. Did you try Churchill's?

 

(And before you ask, I'm an occasional smoker!).

 

Did you have a good time? What was the voyage like? Where did you dine? What sort of cabin were you in? What was the service like?, the food? How was the sea and weather? So many questions, surely you've got some other information? Please?

[molly361]

We are going on the QM2 later this year- could you smoke while sitting in the bar in the Golden Lion Pub? Could you smoke in the bar on the floor above the pub? I think it was the Chart Room- You couldl smoke in both when we on the Inaugral Caribbean in 2004 Thanks

[pnhmrk]

Smoking is no longer permitted in the pubs.

 

Not quite - Parliament passed a law making it illegal to smoke in enclosed public places from next summer on - that is pubs, restaurants, offices, hotels, you name it:mad:

 

In the current brochure Cunard says "At the time of going to press the UK Parliament has just voted on a total ban on smoking in public places. Whilst the application of the new law will not become fully clear until detailed regulations are published, it is likely that it will have some impact on our ships and therefore the ability of guests to smoke whilst onboard."

 

I think Cunard are getting ready for the total ban, with smoking only allowed on deck.

 

I'm not a smoker - I gave up last October - I am very strongly pro-choice however. We should have the choice to smoke or not and not have governments dictating to us.

[pepperrn]

.

I am very strongly pro-choice however. We should have the choice to smoke or not and not have governments dictating to us.

 

Hi pnhmrk,

 

I think you may get one or two replies :D

 

Very best wishes

[coy860]

Unless the government owns the pubs, what right have they to dictate who smokes or doesn't?

 

Everyone has a choice to enter a pub, or not. Private business should do what they think is best.

Some will go non smoking, others will allow smoking. Free market will decide which is right.

[smeyer418]

while I understand what you are saying lets not have a discussion on this board about the reasons for this, but it is also my car that can go 200 miles per hour and no one gets hurt unless they walk in front of my car. Also employees but don't have a choice.(yes I know they can always quit)...Parliment passed this as did the NY legislature, and the US Surgeon general did say secondhand smoke kills people. That being said I wish there were places were people who need to smoke can do it so without standing by the door so I can't walk in without passing the blue haze... Note that this is the public areas you can still smoke in your room which is not a public area..

[travel-to-go]

Unless the government owns the pubs, what right have they to dictate who smokes or doesn't?

 

Everyone has a choice to enter a pub, or not. Private business should do what they think is best.

Some will go non smoking, others will allow smoking. Free market will decide which is right.

 

I know that in the United States, one of the thoughts behind the ban (in those states and cities which have passed one) was to prtect the health of bartenders and wait staff and other employees who had no choice but to give up (sometimes) lucrative jobs or suffer the heath consequences. I try to be accomodating to those who smoke, and hope that they will be equally accomodating of me. However, the incident which led to my first cruise was a complete respiratory failure, which almost killed me. (yes, I was a somewhat heavy smoker at one time, though I had already quit by then, but the damage was already done.) Marc and I celebrated my survival by going on our very first Cunard cruise, on the Crown Jewel. Having been hospitalized a number of times, forced to take steroids just to be able to breathe (Which destroyed my metabolism and made me diabetic, in addition to other permanent side effects, long after stopping them) and frequently suffering bad days in which I can barely function, and end up collapsing, sobbing, wishing I could be "normal" and do and enjoy the things most people take for granted, I often have to avoid smoky areas. Before the ban, I could rarely go out with friends and have fun at a bar. Now I can! I have given up so many things in my life because I am now too sensitive to smoke (and have little stamina) to do most things. It tends to limit my choice of employment, hence my ability to earn higher income. I have been quite fortunate to have a fairly good job, which is at risk at the moment, and I am not a little scared of what will be in my future, both in terms of earning potential, ability to move to another job, and in terms of medical insurance, which is strongly limiting my ability to move to another job. My life has been pretty scary and depressing in the last two months! (more so than usual) I take 16 different drugs a day (multiple pills of several) almost every one of them is a result of my lung problems or side effects from other drugs I take, or the diabetes I now live with because of the steroid use. (And every time I go back on steroids, my blood sugar goes sky high, even if I don't eat a thing.) I don't like weighing over twice what I weighed before steroids came into my life. It's no fun.

 

I'm not trying to lecture, or tell you you shouldn't smoke, or start an argument. Just trying to explain some of the possible reasoning behind the ban. Think, too. If an owner wants to ban smoking, but feels that he must allow it to compete, (I'm not really sure I buy that argument. If he positioned himslef the right way, the non-smokers conceivably would FLOCK to his pub!) well, I know that is one of the arguments that has been brought up over here. Some bar owners near the Indian Casinos (where they are considered sovereign, and therfore, not suject to some other US laws) feel it is unfair to them, when the Casinos can allow smoking and they can't. While I can appreciate their sentiment, I cannot go to one of the two Casinos near me (one of the largest in the world) even for shows because their air system simply is not strong enough to handle the smoke. I had a great deal of difficulty there, even staying out of the smoking locations (They have a non-smoking gaming area, but it is wide open and the smoke just drifted in)

 

I do understand your feelings. My ex husband was an alcoholic. He could not give up smoking. He gave up booze. I have heard the same of heroin addicts who came clean, but could not give up the butts. AA meetings are some of the smokiest (and most caffeine filled!) places known to man. <G> They are powerfully addictive, and when you try to quit, you just feel horrible! It isn't easy! (By the way, if possible, and you smoke menthols, try to switch to non-menthols. Inhaling the menthol does a lot more damage than just the straight tobacco)

 

Good luck to you, and I agree that there should be an better effort made to accomodate smokers, although I thinkthe Golden Lion doesn't do the best job, You have to walk into the smoking area to get to either end which is non-smoking, and IMHO, those are also the best tables for the pub trivia! Perhaps, having one end (which is somewhat more contained) be smoking, and the other non- with the middle also on, being the method of acess and egress for the ends, pretty much, especially if there is a dart game going on at the one end would be much fairer for both our smoking and non-smoking friends.

 

Karie,

who has definite, proven irreversible lung damage from smoking. Others may smoke 80 years without an ill effect. Who knows who is susceptible?

[pnhmrk]

I'm not trying to lecture, or tell you you shouldn't smoke, or start an argument

 

My thoughts as well (except that it was tell you you should smoke:D ). An argument about the rights and wrongs of smoking is not helpful.

 

I agree that there should be an better effort made to accommodate smokers, although I think the Golden Lion doesn't do the best job.

 

How can we encourage Cunard to be more accommodating of both smokers and non-smokers?

[Kindlychap]

How can we encourage Cunard to be more accommodating of both smokers and non-smokers?

 

I'm not sure that this is possible to achieve, even if we wanted to.

 

The Golden Lion on QE2 is currently a no go area for me. As is the Chart Room. That is because they are the principal smoking bars.

 

Remove the smokers, and I'm happier. But they are not.

 

And vice versa.

 

At present I just put up with it and drink elsewhere. I'm not over bothered about punishing smokers for the sake of it.

 

I have to say that if we do find that smoking is only permitted on deck then I'd be pleased. I'm not sure I'd like to encourage smoking in cabins too much as I never want to follow a smoker - to date I have not been aware of having done so. I recognise this position is selfish.

 

I think the argument about protecting the health of employees is both valid and important, and don't accept the free market position that opposes that.

 

My vested interest? Only that my father died from lung cancer three years ago, and I have no wish to see others go the same way.

[mariaemp675@hotmail.com]

First let me say that I am a smoker. :)

 

However, I try to be considerate of non smokers, especially in confined areas. I smoked on my in hull balcony rather than in my cabin to avoid any lingering stale smoke odor.

 

The smoking areas in both the Casino and Golden Lion Pub are very poorly situated IMHO. Non smokers must walk through the purple haze to get to the non smoking areas in both of these venues.

 

On the other hand, I found it annoying to go into the Golden Lion to enjoy a drink and a cigarette, only to have the smoking area filled with non smokers. If I took my cigarette to the non smoking area, you can bet I would be asked to move. But the reverse is not true.:mad:

 

On one occasion I sat at the bar, ordered my drink and lit up. A person two stools down (in the smoking section) gave me a fowl look and waved his hand to disperse the smoke. Not being a shy violet, I pointed out that the gentleman was sitting in an area designated for smoking.

 

Again, I try to respect others space, but I would also like respect for my choice in return.

 

Maria - who must close now to light up:p

[Kindlychap]

As a non-smoker, I always try to go as far as possible from the smoking section for purely selfish reasons.

 

I hadn't thought of it in the way that one or two have - that smokers get cross with non-smokers taking over "their" bit - but it makes perfect sense as the reverse is certainly true.

 

One must be a bit of a prat to complain of someone smoking in a smoking section!

[mufi]

Smoking on deck? Well yes, but on our last cruise on QE2 we always seemed to sit downwind from the same guy smoking the biggest cigar you ever saw. This was worse than it would have been sitting next to him on a bar stool. But things are changing, and I am always surprised at how smokers accept being regarded by governments and most of the non smoking population as lower class creatures.

 

In the past people just put up with smokey pubs and work places. They aren't going to do any more.

 

Best solution is "pack it in"

 

David.

[patwell]

I'm a smoker too....and I try to be a considerate one if there is such a thing. But I do think it unfair that non-smokers feel they can sit in the smoking section yet expect us to stay out of their areas. Can't imagine why they would want to do that unless it's to remove one more smoking seat!! It's a difficult situation for all for sure and one with no easy answers. But respect for one another goes both ways...or it should. I live in one of the last smoking friendly areas in the country. South Carolina is a tobacco state and still permits smoking in restaurants however there is talk of that changing and so be it if it does.

 

Karie...I am so sorry for all your health issues. It must be very difficult for you in so many respects so for your sake I'm glad there are now places where you can go for pleasure. I'm holding good thoughts for your work situation as I can imagine the stress of getting new health insurance with the problems you endure. On the other hand, sitting thru a long meal with poor service without being able to have a cigarette removes some of the enjoyment of going out for me. But times have changed and we all must adapt....hopefully with respect for each other. I do admit that if smoking policies were changed and cabins made non-smoking I'd have to re-evaluate cruising as an option. It's one thing to be restrictive in public spaces but I consider my cabin personal space and that would be just too restrictive for me. Only my personal opinion..not trying to start a debate.

Cheers, Penny

[Cynfor]

Very good cruise, except for the Golden Lion.

 

We had an Delux balcony cabin. Med cruise to Vigo, Barcelona, Cannes, Florence, Rome Gibraltar and Lisborn. We eat in the Britania Restaurant, and the Todd English. The Service in the Britania Restaurant was exceptional and the Todd English also, but not convinced that the Todd English was worth the extra. The weather was cloudy, seas good, The best smoking area was the G32 nightclub.

 

The places visited were excellent, but long journeys to Rome and Florence.

 

Hi Cynfor

 

Maybe they are bringing the Golden Lion into line with land based pubs, from next summer, no smoking in pubs in Britain. Maybe they have found that they didn't need such a large area because they are carrying less smokers these days. Did you try Churchill's?

 

(And before you ask, I'm an occasional smoker!).

 

Did you have a good time? What was the voyage like? Where did you dine? What sort of cabin were you in? What was the service like?, the food? How was the sea and weather? So many questions, surely you've got some other information? Please?

[pnhmrk]

I do admit that if smoking policies were changed and cabins made non-smoking I'd have to re-evaluate cruising as an option. It's one thing to be restrictive in public spaces but I consider my cabin personal space and that would be just too restrictive for me.

 

Penny - we used to do a regular "mini-cruise" to Belgium to buy cigarettes. The savings in Duty were so much that the trip paid for itself. They made all the cabins non-smoking - we don't go anymore. (The cabins are all non smoking, the corridors aren't - first thing in the morning it was amusing to see crowds of people standing outside their cabins smoking:D ).

[molly361]

Can :rolleyes: someone just answer A question WITHOUT the editorial rewiew? Can you sit at the bar in the Golden Lion Pub and/or the Chart Room and smoke a cigarette? That's all I am asking- not the perils of smoking vs. not smoking Thanks

[pnhmrk]

Can :rolleyes: someone just answer A question WITHOUT the editorial review? Can you sit at the bar in the Golden Lion Pub and/or the Chart Room and smoke a cigarette? That's all I am asking- not the perils of smoking vs. not smoking Thanks

 

I don't think you can - not at the bar, although there is smoking accommodation in both bars. You can even smoke pipes and cigars there:)

[travel-to-go]

I'm a smoker too....and I try to be a considerate one if there is such a thing. But I do think it unfair that non-smokers feel they can sit in the smoking section yet expect us to stay out of their areas. Can't imagine why they would want to do that unless it's to remove one more smoking seat!! It's a difficult situation for all for sure and one with no easy answers. But respect for one another goes both ways...or it should. I live in one of the last smoking friendly areas in the country. South Carolina is a tobacco state and still permits smoking in restaurants however there is talk of that changing and so be it if it does.

 

Karie...I am so sorry for all your health issues. It must be very difficult for you in so many respects so for your sake I'm glad there are now places where you can go for pleasure. I'm holding good thoughts for your work situation as I can imagine the stress of getting new health insurance with the problems you endure. On the other hand, sitting thru a long meal with poor service without being able to have a cigarette removes some of the enjoyment of going out for me. But times have changed and we all must adapt....hopefully with respect for each other. I do admit that if smoking policies were changed and cabins made non-smoking I'd have to re-evaluate cruising as an option. It's one thing to be restrictive in public spaces but I consider my cabin personal space and that would be just too restrictive for me. Only my personal opinion..not trying to start a debate.

Cheers, Penny

Gee, Penny,

Don't you live in that weird state where "mixed" drinks are made byhanding the patron a small, sealed nottle of liquor with their mixers? Kinda hard to make some of today's drinks that way! <LOL>

 

Okay, I admit it. I sat at the smoking table in the Golden Lion. Why? I was late to Trivia, There was a seat there (not too many others) and It was also the best table in the place! (IMHO) And like others, I truly never thought about it taking space away from smokers. Sorry about that. I can be reather dense at times. I usually do avoid the smoking areas for obvious reasons! <G> But besides, my Partner in Trivia Crime is a smoker (I try not to lecture her, but I do worry about her! Someone needs to be her mother, you know!) Marc's mother died a few years ago of lung cancer. She tried her hardest to quit. Was banned from smoking in the house due to the grandkids. (not ours! :eek:We don't have kids!) She really tried. When she was diagnosed, it was a very VERY short time until she left us. I really believe she knew much earlier, but wouldn't go to the doctor and get checked out.

 

As for the bars, I don't remember seeing people smoking (or signs) at the bars, but I could be wrong. I didn't sit at the bar (or look for a smoking section.) I'm surprised about the cigars. most ships (including other Cunard ships I have been on) allow pipes and cigars only in certain bars.

 

I am thrilled at the way people are responding to this thread- as civilized people who can differ in (sometimes passionate) feelings. I guess that's why I like Cunard people! For the most part, regardless of income or cabin, we really do have class! :)

 

Penny, It is two weeks from today when my time is up. I called the union again yesterday. I am getting pretty scared. Thinking about making a bunch of Doctor's appointments in the next two weeks! ...Just in case!<LOL> And stock up on all my meds! <G> Still concerned about my father, but it appears they have finally added me to the file so I can talk to his nurse. His wife discovered (which I have been saying all along) that they do not have all of his records, and are not treating him for all that is wrong with him. They put him on a new med the other day. hopefully it will help. Thanks for you kind thoughts Penny. It really helps to know that people really care.

 

Oh, and when my ex and I used to smoke and go out for dinner every Friday night, we usually sat in the non-smoking section. We didn't like the smoke while we were eating! We would move or go elsewhere after dinner! <LOL>

 

Yeah, I have a lot of health problems and sometimes it gets to me, but for the most part, I figure I could be a lot worse,, and am grateful for what I DO have of my health. I do have my self-pity moments, but I also recognize the good stuff. Heck, if not for almost dying, I would never have said, "Gee, I always wanted to go on a cruise... Now I know, Life could be short. What am I waiting for?" And I never would have "met" all of y'all!

 

Karie,

Who really is grateful for what she has

 

"Smile," he said. "things could be worse."

So I smiled, and sure enough! Things got worse!:D

[patwell]

pnhmrk....that's too funny!! Traveling to another country and the cigarette prices made up for the trip!! South Carolina is still smoker friendly...can't find lower prices anywhere I think. When we moved here from smoke free Maine last year we were in shock at the first restaurant when the hostess asked if we wanted smoking or not!! I hadn't heard that in years in a restaurant!!

 

And yes Karie, SC has those silly little bottles altho I heard they were changing that. Not being a drinker at all I never really notice. See? I limit myself to one vice...well almost. I do hope the union can help you. That has to be so scarey, especially since the insurance companies are so miserable on pre-existing conditions. So unfair!! I'll keep programming for a positive outcome for you. And don't feel badly...everyone is entitied to some self pity time....then when we consider the alternatives things don't look all that bad. But you have to promise me that you'll leave those pitiful few smokers seats for those of us who need them, OK? Even if it is trivia!!

Cheers, Penny....who's feeling pretty fortunate these days

 

PS Karie...here's my favorite pity line..."cheer up, some day my ship will come in....and I'll be at the train station!!!" OK, I'm done!!

[Bramcruiser]

Well, Penny! So, you do have a vice! Good for you! :) I'm a non-smoker but did grow up with both of my parents being smokers when we were young - they have since quit though. My brother and I strangely never bothered to start and its doubtful we would at this point. However, my partner is a smoker and thus I can safely say I understand both sides of the issue.

 

Penny, Richard will gladly join you up on the decks for a puff on our upcoming cruise.

 

As a non-smoker I truly do appreciate public spaces that stopped smoking but also do not believe smokers should also be treated as lepers as they are sometimes. I won't weigh into whether governments should get involved or not as what one person sees as a health issue another will see government interference in personal rights and this thread is not about any of that and it doesn't belong here.

 

We all have our vices. Yes, I do enjoy the occasional drink. Heck I just had one prior to cooking dinner. I'll tend to have a drink in a social situation. I just don't think anyone's vices are worth throwing stones at. Hecik I admit to being a meat eater and yet I have many friends who are vegetarians but we simply respect each other and that has never been an issue at meal time.

 

Now that we brought up the topic and since I live with a smoker - is smoking still allowed in the cabins? They were on our HAL cruise in 2005.

[mariaemp675@hotmail.com]

Yes Molly there is smoking at the bar in the Golden Lion Pub.:)

 

If there are ashtrays on the bar you may smoke there. If there are ashtrays on the tables, that is the smoking section. In the Golden Lion, both these areas were between the dart board and the piano.

 

Karie - be truthful, you were at a smoking section table for Trivia because I was there, your new magnetic and intelligent friend.:p

 

Seriously - glad you are able to get the info on your Dad.

 

Maria - who met some really terrific non smokers on QM2 (who knew?:rolleyes: )

[patwell]

Quote Maria..."Karie - be truthful, you were at a smoking section table for Trivia because I was there, your new magnetic and intelligent friend."

 

I KNEW it!!! Leading her astray Maria....giving her a smoking seat...it's a good thing I like you!!

 

David...tell Richard I'll be right there with him...and as far as I know, smoking is OK in the cabins. And I agree..it's a subject that will always cause dissention altho this has certainly been a civilized discussion so far thankfully. OK, so the truth is out...I have a vice!! I'm not a goody two-shoes!! There goes my reputation! And I'm a meat eater too...are there NO secrets left in life?

 

Cheers, Penny...aka her evil twin tonight...just can't keep her off this computer!!

[travel-to-go]

Yes Molly there is smoking at the bar in the Golden Lion Pub.:)

 

If there are ashtrays on the bar you may smoke there. If there are ashtrays on the tables, that is the smoking section. In the Golden Lion, both these areas were between the dart board and the piano.

 

Karie - be truthful, you were at a smoking section table for Trivia because I was there, your new magnetic and intelligent friend.:p

 

Seriously - glad you are able to get the info on your Dad.

 

Maria - who met some really terrific non smokers on QM2 (who knew?:rolleyes: )

 

HEY!

I already admitted my top secret Trivia Partner was there!

 

I just didn't want to give you away! Or everyone will want to be partners with you on the labor day cruise!

 

As for vices, Well, there's sex....

Yeah, and I eat meat too. In fact, I am a confirmed carnivore. BBQ is preferred. If I can't have meat, I might as well go jump off the nearest roof.... Or into a flaming BBQ Pit! (Speaking of smoking!<G>)

Oh other vises? Cheese, Butter, Rich Sauces, Mayonnaise in the extremise (Which does not mean on the extremities <LOL>) My Jacuzzi tub. I can easily soak with the jets on for two hours. I can fall asleep in there! Well, lately I've been doing those blasted #%&)_ Sudoku puzzles I swore I'd never do! Mainly cause I don't have time for my beloved crosswords.

 

<sigh>

Okay, smoking and heroin are about the only things I don't do! (Well, or any GOOD drugs- After all, I have all those I take that aren't even FUN ones. Not a single one of them! Drat!)

Well, I probably have a few other vises, too. but please don't tell any one, I have them all believing I am a saint!

 

Karie,

Who Thought she did something wrong once. But on second thought, She enjoyed it, so she must have done it right after all! <G>

 

P.S. Oh yeah, and there's that prediliction about taking cruises...