Crown Headcrount?

[Cindy]

how do you ever imagine a headcount could be done in the event that the ship was permanently disabled and perhaps entire decks or an entire side of the ship were rendered unusable?

 

Emergencies are exactly what muster drills and headcounts are for...Princess assures us that they have a "different" way of accounting for everyone in the event of an emergency, and as a frequent Princess passenger, I would like to feel comfortable that that is true.

 

During the fire on board Star Princess, passengers were mustered while the fire was fought. As we all know several decks were affected by the fire, and a large portion of that side of the ship was rendered unusable by the fire. So yes, it is possible and can be done successfully. The fire on board the Star Princess is an example of a case when the system worked.

[TexasMom2]

Cmdr. James McLaughlin of the Coast Guard stated to the press that the CG was unhappy that they weren't notified by the ship. They also needed to do a head count at PC because they it wasn't certain no one had gone overboard. I'm sure some changes in procedure will be recommended.

[gatour]

Being mustered as the Star did, did not mean that a head count was actually accomplished.

[Shoalwater]

every day we take a certain amount of risks. But I grew up around boats and we were taught all about safety.

I am not the captain of a ship but I would have immediately accounted for all the passengers- especially those traveling alone.

As to whether another cruise line would have handled it differently- I don't know? Do you?

 

Mass confusion, many passengers hurt and unable to be moved, crew tending to them. My guess is even if there was a provision for a headcount (which this line does not do) it would have shown up many "missing". Do you really think someone with a compond fracture would be able to perambulate down stairs (remember no elevators) to his/her muster station for a count? What about the crew diverted to emergency care for injured passengers missing from their muster stations? Who would take count and where would they report. And don't forget parents walking about looking for kmissing kids. would they abandon the search to go to a roll call? Would you?

 

If this is what went down, it makes the most sense to me. Asking passengers with missing people from their group to muster at a location centralizes the search and IMHO would speed up the identification of missing.

 

What do you do if you tried a roll call and turned up with 50-100 people "missing"? Do you call the coasties and report 100 MOBs? I don't think so because that is just not credible. The trick in these thingsis to manage the situation, control the flow of information so as to be able to separate fact from supposition, and make rationale decisions based on the real facts.

 

I was actually impressed with the process (not too pleased with them having two nearly identical human errors in 6-months though). Again, IMHO those who pulled the trigger and cancelled before todays Princess anouncement of human error as the cause might wish to re-evaluate their decision making process.

[craiggers14]

I was on the ship during the list and would like to add my 2 cents. The captain, in my opinion, was correct in determining that a muster wasn't necessary. I saw it mentioned earlier in this thread about how people were in a complete panic long after the ship had righted itself and was heading back to port. Telling these passengers that now they were going to be called to their muster stations would have had the same effect as telling them that the ship had been half blown off, was on fire, and was sinking. Some people are not capable of staying calm in any kind of emergency situation.

 

From what I saw from the buffet on deck 15, the ship stopped in order to correct itself from the list. There was the chance to see if anybody had fallen overboard. No one did. This was also the chance to determine if the ship was still seaworthy and watertight, which of course it still was. (no matter what you hear about the passenger who swears that it was seawater coming down in the stairwells...still can't get over that one). Once the ship's crew saw there was no one in the water THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR A HEADCOUNT. The crew available could then be best used attending to those who were injured.

 

As it turned out I was asked twice by crew members and once by the cabin steward if my party was accounted for.

 

I think those who were not on the ship and are not experts who are saying what the captain should or shouldn't have done are going a little too far. I'm no expert in maritime protocols, but as a passenger I felt safe and was kept well informed by the captain.

[JLC@SD]

Think about this. This list was severe- there is no doubt about that. The passengers were terrified and 240 injured etc. No doubt this was serious.

 

Port Canaveral was only 11 1/2 miles away. The fact is the Captain didn't know that cause of the "list" and if he did then the cruise line is lying.

So for argument sake, the captain didn't know the cause of the list.

 

He should have had everyone proceed to the muster stations. Crew could then clean up glass and debris, search cabins, etc.

 

Armed with life vests the captain could radio ahead that he was returning to Port Canaveral.

 

What's the problem here? It was an emergency situation. There were casualties. Frightened passengers, etc.

 

And if one more person tries to equate this with their Navy days, I am going to scream.

 

The military gets paid and expects to be in harms way. That is not the case with cruisers!

 

The Captain Knew the cause of the list....it was the sharp turn.

 

The Captain needed to know what caused the sharp turn......and it has been disclosed to be human error. And.......... I think he knew this right away........as there would have been many witnesses on the bridge.

 

Once the ship righted to vertical.........end of emergengy.........and he now needed to tend to the injured.

 

Muster Stations were not needed as the emergency was over and since they were 11 miles away.....a half hour or so to sail.......what is the point to have everyone in life jackets as they sailed into Port Canaveral.

[Boatdrill]

The only way of knowing this would have been an emergency drill for all passengers- yes, complete with lifevests. At this point the captain had no way of knowing if the ship was seaworthy.

 

The captain could have said it was standard procedure and tried his best to call the masses.

 

the wounded being attended to would be accounted for so they wouldn't have to "muster" but the rest would have to report to their stations and be counted.

 

Why wasn't this done?

 

 

Are you kidding or serious ? Sometimes it's hard to tell with the posts on these boards.

[JLC@SD]

Has anyone in fact been known to have gone overboard? If not, isn't this particular argument a moot point?

 

Previously......the drunks are the ones that go overboard.........so collect all the drunks and make sure they are all there.........problem solved.......:)

[GoodAsGold]

Or is that "men overboard"?

 

The majority of man overboards, are passengers in balcony cabins that have had too much to drink..

[GoodAsGold]

Did the Coast Guard tell you this personally?? :confused:

 

The coast guard is highly pissed off about the fact they did not do a head count, as well as Princess not bothering to tell them about the incident happening. They heard it from someone who called their mother from the ship who then turned and notified the coast guard......Princess is really in hot water with the way this was handled......

[alibail]

I was going to avoid posting but;

As the ship was only 11 miles from Port Canaveral, the coast guard would have been unlikely to take the risk of evacuating someone from the ship, when it was already returning to Port Canaveral. In fact they DIDNT they waited until the ship docked before offloading persons who were injured.

Head count? with so much damage all over the ship including glass, and so many people scattered all over the ship, don’t you think it would have caused a panic sounding the alarm, with people being separated in the rush to get to muster stations? As for people going overboard, from what I saw on the news, there were at least 10 helicopters and dozens of small boats surrounding the crown; don't you think one of these would have spotted someone?

The Coast Guard do not control Port Canaveral, therefore, why would they need to be notified? If the ship made the decision to return the only people that would need to be notified is the Port Canaveral port authority / harbour control.

No one has stated the time involved in the person calling their mother who then called the coast guard? Was it 5 minutes, 10 minutes? after the list. If so the ship would still be trying to ascertain the injuries and since it was not sinking, and was not listing further, the TRAINED PROFESSIONALS on the bridge possibly took the decision that there was no immediate danger to the ship, and decided to wait until they had clarified the situation?

At the end of the day, although it won’t satisfy some people on here, the captain and the officers will have responded as per the company procedures and as per their legal requirements. IF they didn’t, this will come out when the official report is published.

[rebeccalouise]

Princess's PR department has done an absolutely horrible job. The fact that it has taken this long to report that it was human error was the worst mistake they have made to date.

Because of this secrecy about the cause of the list, passengers like myself were afraid to travel. The mantra of "the incident is still under investigation" only cause more harm than good.

If the Captain knew immediately that it was human error. Then why haven't they stated as much?

This did not help Princess or their passengers.

The ship is responsible for the list- regardless of the root cause. So it didn't shield them from liablity. What were they going to say, that it was caused by a giant whale? It was either mechanical or technical. Either way they were liable.

[Douglase]

So, the alternative is to wait for them to debark and then check to see who isn't accounted for?

 

Everyone has to be somewhere, the injured and paniced could be identified by the crew. The ship carries a crew of 1200 people, that is a large resource than can be used to account for the passengers. Better that they be accounting for passengers than cleaning up the ship for the next cruise. I realize that cleaning up broken glass and other hazards is the first order of business, but beyond that, you have to know that everyone is accounted for. It is not implausible to have had someone go overboard from their balcony.

 

This is the computer age, there are sophisticated ways of doing things. The days of Sgt. Bilko yelling "Doberman?" are gone.

 

Rich

In a perfect world maybe your computer age idea's would work. From what I have seen and heard the passangers and the ship was in a state of chaos. The crew was asking if anyone was missing from their partys, though not a perfect way of doing it at least they was proactive. You have to remember this was not expected and the way you want to do a head count would take a while to set up. The time spent do that would take from helping to calm and help the hurt people. Getting the ship to port was important. They had no idea what kind of damage if any was done to the ship, they had 4000 plus people to worry about. They should have lanched lifeboats to look for anyone who might have been gone over board.Remember a computer is only as smart as the person using it.

[Nliedel]

Shoalwater and Craiggers are both, imo, correct. Telling some of those people that there was going to be a call to muster would have just added a level of panic no one would have been able to deal with. They did stop the ship after the turn. I am almost positive I remember that, because I remember someone saying it (I remember what I hear or read, not see).

 

I want to, once again, state the captain kept us all informed about what was going on frequently. I am not sure he knew what caused it. I cannot state that and do not think ANYONE else can either.

 

I also want to point out that many of the people attending the injured passengers were passengers themselves. They did not have the doctors on hand to deal with that many injured people, nor do I believe they should. Had those people returned to their cabins to be counted many of the injured would not have been attended to.

[LonghornKJK]

Shoalwater and Crraigers are both, imo, correct. Telling some of those people that there was going to be a call to muster would have just added a level of panic no one would have been able to deal with. They did stop the ship after the turn. I am almost positive I remember that, because I remember someone saying it (I remember what I hear or read, not see).

 

The newlywed (Laura?) from Michigan said in her video that the ship was stopped.

 

It's too bad we don't have a thread that lists all the facts and eyewitness accounts without all the speculation! It's hard to keep it straight, isn't it?

[Nliedel]

The newlywed (Laura?) from Michigan said in her video that the ship was stopped.

 

It's too bad we don't have a thread that lists all the facts and eyewitness accounts without all the speculation! It's hard to keep it straight, isn't it?

 

Some of us remember her stopping, some don't. When you have that many eye witnesses things are going to get muddled like that.

[LonghornKJK]

Some of us remember her stopping, some don't. When you have that many eye witnesses things are going to get muddled like that.

 

So true! The reason I tend to believe the newlywed's account is because she's standing on her balcony narrating and saying, "We are stopped right now." :)

 

I hope you're getting some rest!

[PescadoAmarillo]

So what I'm hearing here, from firsthand accounts, is that, in the case of a real emergency, things are too chaotic to undertake previously practiced emergency procedures. This is also almost as surprising as when I read on these boards that some people on Princess cruises hide to avoid the muster drills (since headcounts are not taken), something I had not previously ever considered even in the realm of possibilities.

 

I have never been even a bit of a worrier about emergencies that might happen, in a building, on a plane, on a ship, etc. (being extremely fortunate to have never found myself in a true mass emergency and not knowing how people would react), and knowing that people like my husband (whose career has been spent teaching people what to do in an emergency) are around and would lead the charge, but I have to admit that hearing over and over again that in the Crown incident things were too crazy and people were too upset and there were too many injuries to be able to do exactly what every cruise passenger rehearses doing in the event of an emergency is a real eye opener. And, yes, while this was a huge emergency, again, the ship was left totally functional, this was not a sinking ship, and still those who were there (and know way better than the rest of us) feel that a muster and headcount could not have been successfully done. Wow.

[nrdsb4]

So what I'm hearing here, from firsthand accounts, is that, in the case of a real emergency, things are too chaotic to undertake previously practiced emergency procedures. This is also almost as surprising as when I read on these boards that some people on Princess cruises hide to avoid the muster drills (since headcounts are not taken), something I had not previously ever considered even in the realm of possibilities.

 

I have never been even a bit of a worrier about emergencies that might happen, in a building, on a plane, on a ship, etc. (being extremely fortunate to have never found myself in a true mass emergency and not knowing how people would react), and knowing that people like my husband (whose career has been spent teaching people what to do in an emergency) are around and would lead the charge, but I have to admit that hearing over and over again that in the Crown incident things were too crazy and people were too upset and there were too many injuries to be able to do exactly what every cruise passenger rehearses doing in the event of an emergency is a real eye opener. And, yes, while this was a huge emergency, again, the ship was left totally functional, this was not a sinking ship, and still those who were there (and know way better than the rest of us) feel that a muster and headcount could not have been successfully done. Wow.

 

You left out that many of those onboard felt that it was immediately apparent when the ship came to a complete halt and MANY were looking overboard that no one was observed in the water and that in the opinion of those present a headcount was UNNECESSARY and would only have to served to further panic those onboard. If the function of a headcount is to see if anyone is overboard but a reasonable determination has been made that no one has fallen overboard, then to do a headcount simply to comply to rules is foolhardy if this pulls valuable people away from important tasks like attending to wounded and clearing dangerous debris from the public areas.

[alibail]

And, yes, while this was a huge emergency, again, the ship was left totally functional, this was not a sinking ship, and still those who were there (and know way better than the rest of us) feel that a muster and headcount could not have been successfully done. Wow.

 

The main thing to remember is that there was no immediate danger, the list had occured, many people were injured. BUT there was no further risk to the ship, its crew or passengers. Causing a mass panic by sounding the alarms would not have been in the best interests of the injured persons, or of the already frightened people onboard.

 

Can you imagine how they would have reacted if after going through that all the alarms sounded?

 

I am under the impression that the captain came on soon after it had happened and explained what had happened and that there was no further risk to the ship. And that persons who were missing people from their party had to go to a specific place on the ship.

 

From a video blog by someone on the ship, I understand that someone came on the tanoy during the list and told people to sit down where they were. Although I am not sur ehow accurate it is, as its the only place I saw someonesay it. Although she did say that while she was sitting there lots of people were frantically running past her.

[GOLDENBONNY]

I have read a few places that they didn't do a head count after the incident. This really bothers me. How could they know not to stop and try and get a person who may have gone overboard? Is this really true?

 

How would you personal provide head count in this situation???Tell me please:confused: how its possible to do?

[rebeccalouise]

As far as the head count issue. For the sake of argument, the captain knew the ship was structurally sound and that the problem with steering was not going to reoccur but he did not have anyway of knowing if people were hurt or trapped in staterooms or if people went overboard.

 

So, there is supposed to be a head count. We do not work on ship. We are not ship captains and we have not been tirelessly trained for just these types of emergencies. Ship personel has and does frequent crew emergency procedure training on almost every sailing (at least in the case of Celebrity- I dated a crew member).

 

I spoke with an NCL employee and he said that you are supposed to muster in such a situation. It sounds stupid but it is the procedure to make sure that all passengers are safe and ready to evacuate if necessary.

 

As for injured and the family members attending to them- the captain can make an exception for these people and they will be counted by medical staff and crew anyway- since they require medical attention. This isn't rocket science and these are standard procedures.

 

What everyone is forgetting is that it is only in hindsight that we have discovered this event was not life-threatening, that zero damage was done to the ship and that no one went overboard. But at the time this occurred- the Captain's educated guess was not protocol.

 

If the worst had happened and the ship involuntarily listed on route to Port Canaveral and there had been no mustering- it would have resulted in complete and utter kaos.

[JLC@SD]

Princess's PR department has done an absolutely horrible job. The fact that it has taken this long to report that it was human error was the worst mistake they have made to date.

Because of this secrecy about the cause of the list, passengers like myself were afraid to travel. The mantra of "the incident is still under investigation" only cause more harm than good.

If the Captain knew immediately that it was human error. Then why haven't they stated as much?

This did not help Princess or their passengers.

The ship is responsible for the list- regardless of the root cause. So it didn't shield them from liablity. What were they going to say, that it was caused by a giant whale? It was either mechanical or technical. Either way they were liable.

Princess has done a very professional job in carefully evaluating, discerning and reporting the results of their investigations and has been forthcoming in admitting what occurred. And........they have taken resposibilty.........what do you want........a public flogging.

 

Hysterical rants such as this do not contribute to any of the findings of facts.......nor does it aid those affected by the "list".

[HurricaneSally]

Think about this. This list was severe- there is no doubt about that. The passengers were terrified and 240 injured etc. No doubt this was serious.

 

Port Canaveral was only 11 1/2 miles away. The fact is the Captain didn't know that cause of the "list" and if he did then the cruise line is lying.

So for argument sake, the captain didn't know the cause of the list.

 

He should have had everyone proceed to the muster stations. Crew could then clean up glass and debris, search cabins, etc.

 

Armed with life vests the captain could radio ahead that he was returning to Port Canaveral.

 

What's the problem here? It was an emergency situation. There were casualties. Frightened passengers, etc.

 

And if one more person tries to equate this with their Navy days, I am going to scream.

 

The military gets paid and expects to be in harms way. That is not the case with cruisers!

 

IMO you are panicking over nothing. You have cancelled your cruise and now are trying to incite others to cancel theirs. That's not fair. Not everybody lives their life wrapped in a bubble of protection hoping nothing will ever happen to them. Live life and enjoy it, without being scared every minute.

[ForEternity]

From a video blog by someone on the ship, I understand that someone came on the tanoy during the list and told people to sit down where they were. Although I am not sur ehow accurate it is, as its the only place I saw someonesay it. Although she did say that while she was sitting there lots of people were frantically running past her.

 

The Captain did come on. I think we were still uprighting at the time, though almost back up. He said to sit where we were and stay calm. There had been some type of steering problem (something of that sort) but they were correcting it. He said once we were back up and safe he would make another announcement. Which he did. I'm not sure how long it was before the next announcement, but just a matter of minutes. That time he said the ship was ok and we were safe. And I believe that time said to go to Club Fusion to find missing people (although could have been in the 3rd one...we had ALOT that day!).