Aways Seems Hal Crusiers Against Kids.

[kryos]

One of the reasons I choose HAL is because there are so few children onboard (and few partyers/college kids). It is not that I don't like children, but I prefer not to be around them when I am trying to relax-I prefer a peaceful, quiet, classy environment. I don't mind well behaved children, it is just that I have yet to encounter more than a couple in my experiences.

I am sort of the same mind as you. I prefer not sailing with a lot of children, but I certainly don't dispute their right to be there if their parents have chosen to sail on HAL.

 

The only real issue I have with children is their parents. Oftentimes the parents will adopt the attitude that "it is my vacation too" ... and that often means a vacation from active parenting. They let their kids run wild and adversely impact the vacation experience of their fellow cruisers. No fair.

 

But, the way I work around the problem of sailing with children is to simply book those cruises where it is unlikely many children will be onboard. Longer cruises or more expensive itineraries often do the trick. Cruising a ten-day itinerary, for example, while school is in session, generally limits the number of children onboard drastically. In fact, you are likely to have no more than a handful of preschoolers ... who hopefully will be busy all day in Club HAL anyway.

 

It's not that people on this board necessarily dislike children. There are just some of us who maybe are not comfortable around them ... I'm single and never had any, thus it is easy for me to become annoyed when they are whining or crying. Maybe that's not fair ... but it's just me. Also, many HAL loyalists sail the line in particular because they don't have the facilities for children that other lines, such as RCCL have, and thus we hope for a more quiet, sedate cruise experience. Maybe we're around children all the time at home ... raising children, perhaps as school teachers, whatever. We'd like a break away from them. That certainly doesn't equate with hating them, though.

 

I agree ... there are other cruise lines out there that, at least in my opinion, are far more suited to the average child ... Disney, Carnival, RCCL are just a few that come to mind. So, we who want to sail without kids stay away from them and board that HAL ship often hoping for a very, very quiet, child-free or at least minimal numbers of children cruise.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Nutrioso]

A common thread I have observed throughout this web site is the lack of understanding of the culture of each cruise line. Each line has its own unique culture onboard which is cultivated by the cruise line and savored by those who have done their homework so that they know well prior to booking what culture they would best fit into. It's not about kids onboard, per se, its about which shipboard culture best encompasses an active family's needs. If I were travelling with children, I would carefully consider which cruise to book. Since we are a retired couple, HAL fits our lifestyle perfectly, whereas Disney or some of the others would not.

[doone]

Well put!!!

[Giorgi-one]

I Would Like To Say I Never Said Anyone Hated Kids But I Do Get The Feeling From Most On Here That They Would Be Happier If We Did Not Bring Them. I Dont Like Carvial Or Rci Because I Want My Childeren To See Resposible Adults Not Runing Wild Partying Type. I Also Dont Want To Feel Like I Am Intruding . My Children Our Usually Well Behaved Or They Will Get The Aporiate Punshiment. I Was Not Pointing This At Anyone In Particule. Just Something I Tend To Notice. By They Way Have Cruised Disney Like It . But I Doesnt Alwys Go Were I Want To Go.

 

We were on RCL Freedom of the Seas in August. I did not observe any adults running wild or partying.

[the2ofus]

While reading this thread, I remembered an incident on our RCCL cruise in May. A rather large family sat chatting and laughing in the Windjammer (Lido) restaurant. Meanwhile two children, probably in the 6 year old range, happily played with the soft ice cream machine nearby. They were sticking their fingers in where the ice cream comes out. YUCK!!!

 

Either they belonged to the family and were being ignored or their parents were no-where to be seen. Either way, parental supervision was nil. They were not children or parents I would welcome on a HAL cruise.

 

Then again, on HAL, the ice cream is never self-serve. But is it always free, good quality, cheerfully served and available for a large portion of every day.

[Giorgi-one]

I believe the OP may have been referring to a thread I started a few days ago. I asked the question "Why do cruise lines have to be all things to everyone"? Specifically, I questioned why HAL had to sell themsleves as being family oriented. If you check that thread, 90% of the respondents said that HAL must sell themselves as a family-oriented line to build their passenger base. Yet, on this thread, most people indicate that they would prefer that HAL not cater to families - not saying they are not welcome. Did everyone change their minds since yesterday?

[hammybee]

If inclined, do a google the title. It's a 25 minute video of the last night of a cruise. Be aware that if you are easily offended by language, this may not be the video for you.

 

These are young adults, not children, who took over the Atrium, elevators and pool area on the last night of the cruise. I am infering that they were not accompanied by parents, but I might be mistaken.

 

At least one on-line TA shows the minimum age on Princess is 18 and HAL's minimum is 21. I thought the minimum age was that at least one in the party had to be at least 25. ( DOn't know if that helps much). I wonder if this changed.

 

All cruise lines that allow unaccompanied youg adults to sail are vulnerable to spring breakers.This particular cruise shows how group dynamics can escalate.

[the2ofus]

Giorgi-one, I don't think the themes are inconsistent. We recognize the economic reality that HAL thinks they need to entice future customers by being family-friendly now so the young people think HAL ten or twenty years down the road.

 

When discussing our personal preferences, most on this board are saying that family-oriented cruises are fine as long as the parents take responsibility for their kids.

 

Some retired folks, singles or empty-nesters are also saying they prefer a quiet, child-free cruise, and will choose cruises where children are least likely to be present.

[michmike]

I'm with those who don't hate kids, but also am not crazy about spending my vacation around a large number of them. So we purposely book at times when there won't be many on board. Someone on our rollcall for 10/15 Westerdam said that they had been able to determine that there were only going to be 21 kids on our sailing. That shouldn't be a problem at all. By the same token, I wouldn't want to cruise on a sailing where there were going to be 200 kids because the chances of some particularly intrusive ones would rise dramatically.

 

Will be interesting, as our friends that we cruise with just announced that their oldest boy is engaged and will be getting married on a Disney cruise next Sept. So we will get a chance to see what it's like to be on a ship full of kids. Thankfully Disney is known for having quite a few adults only areas that are enforced, so we will be able to get away from the kids if we want to.

 

Had one child of our own and numerous nieces, nephews and grand nieces and nephews that we dote on. That doesn't mean I want to spend a week at sea with them.. *S* But if you're a responsible parent who supervises your children then I have no problem with you or them.

[fcorey]

I Want My Childeren To See Resposible Adults Not Runing Wild Partying Type.

 

I dont blame you there. Thats also the reason we are choosing HAL, our first cruise really turned my wife off to cruising because of the wild spring-break at sea crossed with Vegas atmosphere. There were plenty of kids on the ship, they werent a problem.

[Giorgi-one]

Giorgi-one, I don't think the themes are inconsistent. We recognize the economic reality that HAL thinks they need to entice future customers by being family-friendly now so the young people think HAL ten or twenty years down the road.

 

When discussing our personal preferences, most on this board are saying that family-oriented cruises are fine as long as the parents take responsibility for their kids.

 

Some retired folks, singles or empty-nesters are also saying they prefer a quiet, child-free cruise, and will choose cruises where children are least likely to be present.

 

Nice of you to take time out from packing. Have a great cruise!

 

I know what you are saying but the general feeling I got on my thread was more supportive of HAL selling themselves to families than you indicate. In an event, I don't entirely agree with the concept. I never took my kids on HAL and migrated to them BECAUSE they were more adult-oriented. Also, if I had taken my kids and saw that HAL was very family-oriented, I might be LESS LIKELY to think HAL ten or twenty years from now. It can work both ways. How many people on this thread would stick with HAL if they truly became a family-oriented cruise line like RCL?

 

However, I do agree that parents are the problem not kids. We watched three familes of kids playing in the flower beds on RCL in the Windjammer buffet while their parents totally ignored what was going on. They didn't stop until I notified one of the officers what was happening.

[wwinfl91]

Personally IMHO kids generally should not be on cruises unless they are very very well behaved which is not generally the case in this day and age. If parents would take responsibility for their kids on cruises maybe it would work but what I see all too often is the kids are left to run amok while the parents enjoy the cruise. If the parents are around the kids are better behaved but too often the kids are left to themselves and the cruise staff doesn't have the authority or the will power to control them.

 

Again IMHO kids under 10 or so should NOT be brought on cruises. Let their grandparents take care of them.

 

Have a nice next cruise without a lot of brats running around.

[hammybee]

It can work both ways. How many people on this thread would stick with HAL if they truly became a family-oriented cruise line like RCL?

 

HAL has had a Childrens' program as far back as I have sailed with them and therefore I assumed it was a family friendly cruise line. I think HAL and RCCL are equally family friendly during school vacations although RCCL offers a more physical experience for children.

[Giorgi-one]

HAL has had a Childrens' program as far back as I have sailed with them and therefore I assumed it was a family friendly cruise line. I think HAL and RCCL are equally family friendly during school vacations although RCCL offers a more physical experience for children.

 

I did not say they were not family friendly. There is a big difference between HAL and RCL where half of the passengers are children on many cruises. Would you be happy on HAL if half of the passengers were children?

[srzpoo]

I think most of us like kids but some of us cruise for a vacation away from our own children only to put up with others kids. Some of us love our grandchildren very much and if we wantd to be with kids we would take our own. The worst part is that too many parents don't care what the kids do as long as it is away from them and then we get to put up with them. I cruise with HAL, at a higher price, just in hopes I will have a better chance of cruising without so many kids and lets not forget the drunk young adults with filthy mouths. So as they say, something for everyone. Sorry, but you asked.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Hello Timelman:

 

I would like to set your mind at rest; I want you to be looking forward to your cruise vacation.:) I think many other folks here have expressed to you that your family are welcome; they only ask that you and your children be considerate of others.

 

Please remember this is only an online chat board about cruising. People here post their observations, opinions, and perceptions, and very occasionally, a few facts. ;) This forum is not reality. The reality is that there will only be 100 children on your cruise (as you mentioned on another thread), and the total passenger count for Zuiderdam is something like 1,848. If all berths are filled (every bed and bunk occupied), the total passenger count is 2,272. So, as a total percentage of passengers, there won't be many children, but there will be enough to keep your own kids company.

 

The additional reality is that CLUB HAL (the youth program) will be up and running. The staff over at CLUB HAL will keep your kids busy and entertained. The other crew members onboard will also welcome your children. Many of them are parents, and they miss their own children at home. There will be other families onboard, and your children will meet and make some new friends. Contrary to what you fear, the other passengers will not be looking down their noses at you and your kids. I found the other passengers on our Holland America cruise last month to be very kind to my children.

 

You mentioned earlier that your children are well-behaved, and that if not, you will discipline them. So I would say you sound like a concerned and involved parent.

 

Please, go and enjoy spending time with your family on a wonderful cruise, and don't worry that you and your children are not wanted. They are.:)

 

Karin

[missygirl]

Do I enjoy children? Absolutely...Ours have always gone with us wherever we travel.

My one main concern of kids on cruiselines are not the noise, laughter or general antics of them and yes its upsets me to see SOME parents ignoring them while they are, as another poster said they are sticking their fingers into the food.

My concern is when they are away from their parents-alone and roaming the decks and in the elevators. Too many passengers in the past five years have dissappeared, females have been raped and these were adults. So when I see a child of even 14 and under alone it disturbes me because of the danger lurking. All it would take would be for one of the doors to open and a crewmember or a fellow passenger could harm a child. My only suggestion for first time cruisers of children are to keep them close for safety reasons.

Missygirl

[bankerbabe]

My concern is when they are away from their parents-alone and roaming the decks and in the elevators. Too many passengers in the past five years have dissappeared, females have been raped and these were adults. So when I see a child of even 14 and under alone it disturbes me because of the danger lurking. All it would take would be for one of the doors to open and a crewmember or a fellow passenger could harm a child. My only suggestion for first time cruisers of children are to keep them close for safety reasons.

Missygirl

 

Well put and completely agree.

[newmexicoNita]

I Would Like To Ask A Questions . Why Does It Seem People On Here Seem To Think If I Have Kids I Sould Cruise Somewherelse. Why Sould I Give Up The Best Of The Best And Always Seem To Come Down To Some Cruise Dont Want My Kids . I Pay For My Cruise. This Is Just A Thought Not At Aimed At Anyone.

Without reading all the replies I will try and answer you: first of all, if you cruise during the vacation season you will find several kids on HAL. They are attempting to attract the family groups and lose the image of being a cruise line for the older, more sedate crowd. That being said, most of the mass marketed lines are very similar today; you think HAL is the best, maybe it is and maybe there is a reason for that: it attracts a different type of cruiser. You can take your kids and forget what others say, or decide to cruise other lines such as Princess, Celebrity, RCI or NCL with your kids and save the HAL cruise for the adults only. Just remember, if you choose to take the kids on HAL there will not be as much for them to do as on the other lines. NMNita

[newmexicoNita]

I believe the OP may have been referring to a thread I started a few days ago. I asked the question "Why do cruise lines have to be all things to everyone"? Specifically, I questioned why HAL had to sell themsleves as being family oriented. If you check that thread, 90% of the respondents said that HAL must sell themselves as a family-oriented line to build their passenger base. Yet, on this thread, most people indicate that they would prefer that HAL not cater to families - not saying they are not welcome. Did everyone change their minds since yesterday?

I pretty much agree with you and still with others: there certainly are enough adults out there that would rather cruise with few or no kids: HAL seems to think this doesn't exist. I realize they know more about marketing than any of us, but I do wish we could keep one line, mass marketed, in a reasonable price list that does appeal to mostly adults. But this, like the dining choice test which will start in January is a direct result of what the public seems to want. Just because there are some on here that don't want the changes doesn't mean HAL will listen. NMnita

[cruznon]

I totally agree with Brian.

It's the irresponsible parents that are the problem.

[seniormiss]

From what I have read and heard there is lots for the kids to do on HAL. And HAL is pushing the family bit. Why would they bring the age down from 5 to 3 for the kids club. We are on HAL in January with my 3 year old grandchild. Keep in mind that we are paying full fair for the 3 year old and I think people need to be respectful of that. She is well behaved (most of the time).

Hopefully there will be many other children in her age range on that cruise.

If anyone wants the date, so they can cancel if they are on the same cruise, I'll be happy to supply it.

[GPoll189]

I am completely fed up with how people treat families that travel with kids on HAL. I myself have been a kid on HAL I have over 24 cruise on HAL since and early age of 5.

 

I don't want to sound harsh but there are alway people that feel a vacation without children is great but I believe HAL is a great cruise line for children. I know that they don't have the activities that other cruiselines have for kids but it doesn't matter. The crew that HAL has loves to cater to children. I am talking about the desk stewards, the bar attends, the waiters and anyone else that these children come to.

 

Cruises are a great way for children to learn about the world that is out there for them. However, I have to agree there are some parents that believe that this is also a vacation away from there kids even though they bring there kids aboard. The allow there kids to run free and it makes it horrible fo the other kids aboard the ship for them because it makes all of the other children look bad.

 

I can remember times when I was on the Lido line behaving and waiting on line for my tray to go down the line and I was getting durty looks like I didn't belong there. I know I belonged there my parents took me on the cruise knowing that I would behave well, but some people don't like kids period. Some of these people are of the older clientile and think that cruising is something for older people to do. As you can see from the rest of the industry every cruiseline is moving away from the formal setting of set times for eating and nightly dress to open type of cruises. This helps families more they don't have to worry about getting ready on time for things they can take there time make sure there kids are attended to and then have there free time. You can even see that HAL is going this way. I know people don't like to hear this but the industry is changing and so will HAL. If HAL wants to keep filling there ships they have to cater to what the passengers want. And what the passengers want is to be able to cruise with there kids and enjoy there time even though it might hurt the feelings of the loyal customer.

 

I can tell you now that when I finally have my children they will start cruising as soon as they can and it will be on HAL. I have cruised on other lines and I believe that HAL's child progam even though it is not known for it is one of the best. The counselors care for the children they are in charged of and with other lines it is just like they are there for crowd control. I can remember how one of my life long friends who is deaf was specially taylored to in the youth program. She was only 7 when she was on the first cruise and they did everything they could not even short of jumping backward for her to make sure she enjoyed her experience. I sailed with her and her family for another 7 year after that.

 

Please don't give HAL a bad name against children. I believe with the crew that they have HAL can be one of the best lines for children even though they don't have the facilities right now as the other cruiselines have. I can tell you and if you have been cruising on HAL in the last couple of years on the amount of familes traveling with kids on HAL has increased especially the 7 days cruises on the Vistas, the Holiday cruises and even some of the long voyages. But if you are one of the older passengers please give these families your support and if you don't like cruising with them keep it to yourself or take voyages that you know there won't be alot of children on.

 

For everyone that has posted in this forum I am sorry if I came off harsh about this topic but I have a very soft spot for HAL as a child and I have a strong beliefs that HAL should be for families. Thanks I can't wait to see more cruises on our X-mas cruise on the Noordam. LONG LIVE FAMILIES LOL

[AAAAmerican]

I am completely fed up with how people treat families that travel with kids on HAL. I myself have been a kid on HAL I have over 24 cruise on HAL since and early age of 5.

 

I don't want to sound harsh but there are alway people that feel a vacation without children is great but I believe HAL is a great cruise line for children. I know that they don't have the activities that other cruiselines have for kids but it doesn't matter. The crew that HAL has loves to cater to children. I am talking about the desk stewards, the bar attends, the waiters and anyone else that these children come to.

 

Cruises are a great way for children to learn about the world that is out there for them. However, I have to agree there are some parents that believe that this is also a vacation away from there kids even though they bring there kids aboard. The allow there kids to run free and it makes it horrible fo the other kids aboard the ship for them because it makes all of the other children look bad.

 

I can remember times when I was on the Lido line behaving and waiting on line for my tray to go down the line and I was getting durty looks like I didn't belong there. I know I belonged there my parents took me on the cruise knowing that I would behave well, but some people don't like kids period. Some of these people are of the older clientile and think that cruising is something for older people to do. As you can see from the rest of the industry every cruiseline is moving away from the formal setting of set times for eating and nightly dress to open type of cruises. This helps families more they don't have to worry about getting ready on time for things they can take there time make sure there kids are attended to and then have there free time. You can even see that HAL is going this way. I know people don't like to hear this but the industry is changing and so will HAL. If HAL wants to keep filling there ships they have to cater to what the passengers want. And what the passengers want is to be able to cruise with there kids and enjoy there time even though it might hurt the feelings of the loyal customer.

 

I can tell you now that when I finally have my children they will start cruising as soon as they can and it will be on HAL. I have cruised on other lines and I believe that HAL's child progam even though it is not known for it is one of the best. The counselors care for the children they are in charged of and with other lines it is just like they are there for crowd control. I can remember how one of my life long friends who is deaf was specially taylored to in the youth program. She was only 7 when she was on the first cruise and they did everything they could not even short of jumping backward for her to make sure she enjoyed her experience. I sailed with her and her family for another 7 year after that.

 

Please don't give HAL a bad name against children. I believe with the crew that they have HAL can be one of the best lines for children even though they don't have the facilities right now as the other cruiselines have. I can tell you and if you have been cruising on HAL in the last couple of years on the amount of familes traveling with kids on HAL has increased especially the 7 days cruises on the Vistas, the Holiday cruises and even some of the long voyages. But if you are one of the older passengers please give these families your support and if you don't like cruising with them keep it to yourself or take voyages that you know there won't be alot of children on.

 

For everyone that has posted in this forum I am sorry if I came off harsh about this topic but I have a very soft spot for HAL as a child and I have a strong beliefs that HAL should be for families. Thanks I can't wait to see more cruises on our X-mas cruise on the Noordam. LONG LIVE FAMILIES LOL

 

You do write so well.

 

We were all children once as well if we have them we have to show them as a shephard shows and teaches his/her flock the way.

 

:cool:

[nashkan]

{Again IMHO kids under 10 or so should NOT be brought on cruises. Let their grandparents take care of them.

 

Have a nice next cruise without a lot of brats running around.

)............. EXCUSE ME ...... We ARE the Grandparents and we ARE taking care of him, and we ARE bringing our 9 year old Grandson on a HAL cruise in October .... we brought him on a cruise last year when he was 8.... He does not run around WILD, nor does he wander the ship by himself, he is ALWAYS with us or another trusted adult. He does not run on the decks, and he will gladly let YOU cut in front of him in line at the buffet... (and I AM APPALLED at how many adults will do that, just because he is a child) ......if he accidental bumps into someone (OR THEY bump into him HE will say excuse me) ...He will be the one holding the elevator door open for an elderly person to get on or off... (and how many I have seen, NOT even bother to even say "thank you") ..... I have seen him hold a door open for as many as 20 people, adults and NOT one said "thank you".... He wears a TUX on formal nights, and he even puts his napkin in his lap at all meals, he will ask you to "PLEASE" pass the salt.....He will even sit and have a very intelligent conversation with you, (I am sorry we may have to remind him to eat his dinner).... He will ask to be excused if he has to leave the table......... He does not swim in the "adults only" pool, but when he does swim he sometimes does splash and I REALLY have to wonder why the water splash of a CHILD swimming is so much more DEADLY then that of an adult swimming and splashing?.... .... He can swim 20 or 30 laps of the pool and ONE extra splash to someone sitting ON THE EDGE of the pool will make a difference.... Yet adults can jump in and do a "cannon ball", splashing MANY and no says a thing..... He certainly does not stick his fingers in an ice cream machine, nor does he use his fingers to pick up food, he will use the tongs (and he washes his hands before EVERY MEAL) (do all adults do that?) He washes his hands EVERY TIME before leaving the bathroom... (how many adults have I seen walking out of the bathroom with out washing their hands?)......... Nor does he tear apart flower arrangements and he is very respectful of other peoples property.... He is not loud, he does not cry nor pout....... BUT you may hear him laugh, you may even see him jumping around WHEN an adult is playing with him, provoking him or tickling him or something..... We have more adults wanting to spend time with him and playing with him... they can get him going but he is 9 years old and NO ONE SEES anything else BUT the 9 year old.... He enjoys most of his time at the KIDS AREAS with other kids but sometimes he does spend time with us old folks...... he is 9 years old and he is a GENTLEMAN FOR 9 YEARS OLD...... NOOOOO he is by NO means and way PERFECT, are any of us? He is still a little boy..... what gives you the right to say that kids UNDER 10 should NOT be brought on a cruise? ..... I am sorry, if I seem to be jumping back at you.... but it would be the same if I was to tell you to stay in some OLD FOLKS HOME.... YES, we have seen some kids doing things they should not do (and we point them out as an example to our Grandson) .... but on the most part, there are MANY VERY WELL BEHAVED children.... there is a scripture in the Bible "SEEK and YOU WILL FIND" .... "If that is what you are looking for....you WILL find it"..... but please do not over look MANY OTHERS that do not fit into your "perceived" notion..... More then likely there have been MANY kids on your previous cruises, ones you may have not even realized were there...and yet you say NOTHING in their behalf.. obnoxious people come in ALL ages.....YES children on cruises should be VERY VERY WELL-BEHAVED, but usually the children that are NOT, their parents (ADULTS) are usually NOT well behaved either .....THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT YOU SHOULD BE WANTING TO BAN from YOUR cruise experience, don't blame the kids , they are doing what they are taught to do....but don't blame and generalize children under the age of 10, MANY of them act MORE responsible then some adults!.. most sincerely, Dan