Are there adverse impacts from cruising?

[Aquahound]

Key West did do an economic impact of cruising study about a year ago meant to determine if the city truly benefited from the many cruise ships that visit there nearly every day.

 

The majority of Key Westers hate the constant cruise ship traffic. Our reef is slowing dying from people touching it and taking souveniers, and an increase in water pollution thought to be caused by ships dumping sewage only a few miles away. There are only a few businesses like t-shirt shops and Duval St. bars that benefit from cruise ships. I, for one, love them. Every time I see one pull in or out, I dream of my next cruise.

[wraithe]

Can only speak of what I just learned on the Grandeur of the Seas, Captain Admarker stated during his Nautical Notes lecture that RCL is testing a system on Vision of the Seas to treat black water, it's a four chambered system that first seperates solids in the first chamber, then allows settling in the second chamber, the solids from both chambers are incinerated, third chamber has a series of replaceable plastic pipes that host organisms that eat the biological stuff left in the water (just like a land based sewage plant), the fourth chamber they ozonate the water to kill off the microorganisms, and essentially have potable water remaining. Grey water skips the first two tanks since it doesn't have solids. The Captain stated that he had seen someone drink the water to prove its purity. RCL is testing this system, one of several that the cruise lines are testing in conjunction with each other to determine which one works best. They only discharge grey or black water when greater than 13 miles from land, maritime law allows discharges if >4 miles, but RCL requires their ships to be >13. In addition, since there is a problem dumping ballast water into ecosystems different from where the ship took on ballast, you have the potential to introduce damaging species to an area. By using the fresh water produced from the ship's sewage system, you aren't inadvertantly dumping microorganisms when deballasting the ship. The video he showed us showed them seperating paper, plastics, metal and aluminum, then baling the waste for removal at port.

 

Grandeur's Chief Engineer said that they are not removing the gas turbines from the Radiance class ships, they are going to add a diesel engine for electric generation in port when the ship is lightly loaded (no propulsion), the gas turbines use nearly as much fuel idling as fully loaded, so operating them in port is very wasteful. By adding the diesel, they can secure the turbines, run the diesel for electricity, probably using the same fuel, since a diesel will happily run on jet-A or kerosene, since jet-A and #1 diesel fuel are pretty much the same thing, just a little less energy and lubricity.

 

Hope this helps some. If you need clarification about anything I wrote, or it doesn't make sense, just let me know and I'll try to clarify.

[banderboo]

Presser84:

 

You could do the paper on the loss of culture that is associated with cruise lines coming to a area. Lots of things change when the ships start to show up. Job bases shift, land usage changes .... but the negative is the loss of the culture. Try that one..... Good Luck

[PA Dutchman]

Carnival Cruise Lines Ships Receive Environmental Certification from International Ship Classification Society09/05/2006 MIAMI (September 5, 2006) -- Carnival Cruise Lines has received certification of its ISO14001:2004 Environmental Management System (EMS) from Lloyd’s Register Quality Assurance, an accredited ship classification society. The certification applies to Carnival Cruise Lines’ fleet of 21 ships and its Miami headquarters.

The requirements for certification are established by the Geneva-based International Organization for Standardization, an internationally recognized standards organization that promotes the development and implementation of international standards, including those for environmental management issues.

"Carnival Cruise Lines owes its livelihood to the sea and receiving ISO 14001 certification from Lloyd’s Register Quality Assurance further demonstrates our continued commitment to preserving and protecting our important natural resources," said Bob Dickinson, Carnival Cruise Lines president and CEO.

The EMS system provides a framework by which Carnival Cruise Lines evaluates its environmental impact and serves as a foundation to enhance the company’s wide-ranging environmental performance and compliance initiatives.

The system includes requirements for employee training and auditing, corrective and preventive actions, regulatory compliance instructions and practices, and measurement of stated goals and objectives.

Procedures of the system include identifying activities and services for potential environmental impact and opportunities for enhancing the company’s environmental goals and objectives.

[Presser84]

Presser84:

 

You could do the paper on the loss of culture that is associated with cruise lines coming to a area. Lots of things change when the ships start to show up. Job bases shift, land usage changes .... but the negative is the loss of the culture. Try that one..... Good Luck

 

This is one of the areas I'd like to discuss, but it's much harder to find information on this subject as opposed to the environmental impacts. Any ideas of where I could get that info? Also, is there more or less impact on the culture from cruise tourism as opposed to other forms of tourism?

 

And thanks to everyone else who has been giving me good ideas for my paper. My parents always told me that the people at Cruise Critic are the best!

[katiel53]

In addition to all the things mentioned the cruiselines do not allow passengers to take food off the ships. My understanding is that it could disturb the ecology of some islands. There are postings in the newsletters onboard, and signs when getting off the ship as well as collection facilities at some ports.

 

The cruiselines do try to protect the environment, but some passengers feel they are above the laws of the land, and refuse to either return to the ship for a meal or buy a meal because they have already paid for all their food. There have been many discussions regarding taking food off the ship, and even though it has been explained, there are still those who feel "it's their right."

 

Katie

[MGoBlue2]

implies a pre-disposed prejudice. I would suspect he or she assume that we human beings are the worst thing that ever happened to the world!!!

 

I will try and offer a few thoughts. Pick one island...Roatan, off the coast of Honduras. Prior to NCL building a dock, this island was the poorest of the poor within the country of Honduras.

 

Roatan is considered the third best scuba and snorkel locale in the world. SInce cruise ships have begun visiting the islands.....

 

The orphanage has prospered and the children are clothes and being educated.

 

The small town has begun paving the roads.

 

Foreign investors are building private homes.

 

The coral reefs have been protected.

 

Two US flagged airlines now fly, daily into Roatan.

 

One small example to thwart the lack of intellectual integrity of your professor <-- my opinion.

Apparently, posting an opinion of the professor's prejudice (or lack) is OK only if you throw in a cruising tidbit as well.

 

To that I say, I've been to Roatan and agree with your assessment. All the people there seemed genuinely enthused to have us visit.

 

Now where's TahoeBob...:)

[Aquahound]

The post about Roatan may be true. However, that is not the case in some other ports. For example, Key West and Grand Cayman have very little dependancy on cruise ships. In fact, many locals despise the ships.

[MGoBlue2]

The post about Roatan may be true. However, that is not the case in some other ports. For example, Key West and Grand Cayman have very little dependancy on cruise ships. In fact, many locals despise the ships.

Personally, I'd be happy if no ship bothered with Key West again.

[Aquahound]

Personally, I'd be happy if no ship bothered with Key West again.

 

Trust me. So would most of the locals. You should hear the debates at city hall!!!

[xpcdoojk]

I think someone spilled a toxic dose of Chlorox as this thread has been sanitized beyond description and I am worried we all will be sterilized if we post here.:rolleyes: :D If a port doesn't want tourism from cruise ships, just raise the port taxes. Since that hasn't happened to the point that it discourages cruise ships from stopping, I think that proves that the governments of both Key West and Grand Cayman don't share your point of view. :rolleyes: Last time I looked both the Key West and Grand Cayman have tourism boards that keep inviting me to visit. :D Yes, we have individuals who dislike all sorts of things, individuals do not make decisions for the majority.

 

jc

[Aquahound]

I can't speak for Grand Cayman, but I can for Key West. Of course the money-grubbing government supports it. If you know anything about the city and county commissioners in the Keys, you'd know they don't reflect the views of the citizens. The city of Key West is notorious for being "bought." The Keys are being over developed and the locals are being pushed out. It's gotten to the point where millionaires are being pushed out by billionaires. Affordable housing areas are being purchased and developed into multi-million dollar condos. I could go on and on. But, the vibe in the Keys are to ban cruise ships because locals are tired of the crowds. Unfortunate, but true.

[xpcdoojk]

Having spent several happy vacations in Key West, I have no doubt that some of what you say is true, but if you are telling me the government is corrupt and that they don't listen to the people, and yet you can't change the government then I wonder how royalled the people are. A billionaire gets one vote and so does a local poor person. jmho

 

jc

[Aquahound]

jc, What you are saying makes sense - in most cases. However, the small town mentality of the Keys are a little different. There's a thing down here called the "Bubba System." Politicians receive block votes from areas who, in turn, get kick-backs from those voted in. For example, the Sheriff is on his 5th term. Elections are decided before they begin. Personally, I love the Keys and have yet to fall victim to the corrupt politics. But many have and 5th and 6th generation conchs (locals) are being forced out. Just some Keys facts tourists don't see.

 

*Sorry if this gets too far off the thread subject.

[Silvery Seas Cruiser]

Presser84:

 

You could do the paper on the loss of culture that is associated with cruise lines coming to a area. Lots of things change when the ships start to show up. Job bases shift, land usage changes .... but the negative is the loss of the culture. Try that one..... Good Luck

 

Having lived thirty-five years overseas in "third world" nations, I can say that many countries are "losing their culture" anyway, even those countries that actively try to prevent foreign cultural pollution.

 

One example, when I lived in Manila, the government passed a law requiring the music-based radio stations to play a preponderance of Tagalog popular music and strictly limited the number of imported Western popular songs in English that could be played per hour. They did not control, however, the amount of Western pop music citizens could buy in the stores.

 

I'm not fully convinced that cruise ships speed up the process of cultural thinning significantly. They may do so in the port cities where they anchor for a few hours each day, but Internet, music, movies, satellite TV, imported clothing, food, multinational franchises, books, magazines, and other products are all doing their share to chip away at traditional cultures. Nations have to go to the extreme extent of North Korea to prevent all cultural thinning and "contamination" from other nations.

[EmJakeBubbie]

IMHO, I say: "yes, cruising impacts on the environment and local economy, but in a more positive rather negative manner." I see prominent signs of recycling anything that can be recycled on the ships. I've witnessed the change from when bedding was changed daily to the more common every other or every third day of linen changes. Ships seem more aware about how dropping the anchor can kill the coral and have taken a proactive approach to using their navigation to hold a vessel in position, rather than to drop the anchor. Locals profit from tourism dollars. They may go home to a little shack, but it is with our dollars in their pockets. We go home w/trinkets wondering "why did I buy this?" Many posters on this thread make eloquent statements regarding the local cultures, etc. I tend to agree. Our world is changing. Progress is what drives most of us. Progress does bring changes. It is always a treat to visit a developed port (developed w/tourism dollars) and to attend a local heritage or cultural show. I hope I enrich each culture, person-to-person, as they so enrich me. I'm most concerned about over diving/snorkeling the coral reefs. Evidence of ocean death is so disheartening. Tourists need to be better educated on the harm they can cause by removing shells and such during their "shore tours". The ocean and all in it is life. It needs to be able to live as nature intended. It's ok to look, but please don't touch anything! This is an interesting subject. I would love to read your paper upon completion. May all readers continue to enjoy the seas.

[riz]

Presser84 - try some of the port boards....on many of them there are posters who actually live in these ports/islands. You can gain lots of info from islanders who see the ships come and go over time.

 

I know Tortola is becoming a "regular" on Caribbean cruises. Speaking to an islander there a few years ago he weas telling me how people change their way of "living" when they know the ship is in. It's a disaster if there is more than one ship...people avoid the "downtown" at all costs. The price of taxis go up and the restaurants and shops in town become off limits. Islanders pay close atttention to the schedules and know when to expect visitors...they get up early on these days to take their showers because apparently on Tortola when a ship comes in the water pressure goes down to almost just a drip.

[MGoBlue2]

jc, What you are saying makes sense - in most cases. However, the small town mentality of the Keys are a little different. There's a thing down here called the "Bubba System." Politicians receive block votes from areas who, in turn, get kick-backs from those voted in. For example, the Sheriff is on his 5th term. Elections are decided before they begin. Personally, I love the Keys and have yet to fall victim to the corrupt politics. But many have and 5th and 6th generation conchs (locals) are being forced out. Just some Keys facts tourists don't see.

 

*Sorry if this gets too far off the thread subject.

If true, Key West is likely to get sued, Chicago has the patent on that system.