Avalon or Peter Deilmann??

[Harley Woman]

My husband and I want to take a european river cruise next spring. We are looking at Peter Deilmann's Amsterdam to Frankfort or Avalon Waterways' Zurich to Amsterdam. I'd like to hear from anyone who has been on these tours what your opinions are and I have some specific questions for any one:

#1. What to wear during the day? Are jeans too casual? We are "jeans" type people but would take our "best" looking ones for the cruise (?oxymoron?). I have seen the term "country club casual". Would this apply? And, what did you wear?

#2. We would prefer a non-smoking cruise. I have heard that German lines (Peter Deilmann?) have smoking almost everywhere. Is this true? Also, does this apply to the country of Germany as well (the smoking anywhere part)?

#3. Is it customary to book airline flights with the agent that books the cruise?

I appreciate your comments and advice!

Harley Woman

[letsgo39]

From what I have learned from these boards you would probably be happier on Avalon. It has been said on here that the Deilmann cruises are more formal then the Avalon cruises.Deilmann is a German company and Europeons tend to dress up more then Americans do.In regards to smoking you will be much happier on Avalon where smoking is limited to a section outside on the top deck.In addition,I don't know if it matters but all of the announements are made in English on Avalon.On Deilmann I am sure they are made in several languages,German being first.

My DH and I are booked on the Avalon Tranquility for Budapest to Amsterdam next July. We both prefer jeans to dressup and neither one of us smoke.We chose Avalon for those reasons and having traveled with Globus several times we know they do a good job on their land tours..Your wise to do your research. I am sure you will have a great time.

[letsgo39]

In regards to air arrangements I prefer to check out both situations. The last several times I have traveled to Europe with a tour I have made my own air reservations and saved quite a bit of money.We go a day early and stay an extra day so the transfers don't matter. On my trip next summer flying into Budapest and home from Amsterdam I saved about $900.00 a couple by making my own arrangements.In addition I was able to get perfect connections in my opinion.However I watched the fares for about 3 weeks and grabbed them when they dropped for 1 day.I think it is fun to do that but know a lot of people don't have that much time to keep checking the fares a couple of times everyday. I have found that Orbitz is great for hotel and air reservations.So the best is to find out what the tour company has to offer and then do your own shopping. Take what suits you best.

[fozzy]

I was on the PD Mozart in April. I had a great time. I guess because I could overlook the minor things that seemed out of place. It was only the second sailing of the season. The ship was beautiful, however smoking was not allowed in the dining room. As a generalization, Europeans tend to be smokers. While on the cruise it seemed that the Germans got a little preferential treatment. Maybe it's a language thing or a cultural thing. Some of the staff could be inconsistent at times. As an example, One waiter would get my juice in the morning, while the next day I was told to get it myself from another. Just the little things. Food was very nice. As far as clothing. Wear jeans if you want during the day. You won't find that the Europeans wear them though. I found dinner to be resort casual, no jeans. Even on the formal nights people were dressed nicely, ie cocktail dresses or pantsuits and men's suits. No real formalwear. I guess it depends who is on the trip with you. I've never been on Avalon, but have heard good things. I would love to take their Holland tour. If you have anyother questions that I may not have thought to answer, I'll check in occasionally.

[letsgo39]

I just had a response from Steamboats on another thread where she said the handouts on the Peter Deilmann cruises were written in German only,no English! She always is a great help and is our resident expert on all things German.

[jgnova]

Umm. Well, we were on the April 2 sailing of Mozart (were you with us, Fozzy?) and got handouts in English. I posted a short note when we returned (April 12 or thereabouts) and J posted a multi-section review starting shortly thereafter. Steamboats was on the sailing a week before ours, though most of it was by bus -- her review is on her website and linked in her sig block.

[steamboats]

letsgo39,

 

No, I posted that a booklet about the towns along the rivers was handed out pre cruise and this was available in German only (it wasn´t handed out to US passengers). All announcements and all hand outs onboard were both German and English (although on our cruise there were only 6 English speaking passengers). In fact I asked for the English hand outs to compare them to the German ones (especially the one about the shore tours so I can give you the exact English names of the tours). Even the description of how to get to the subway station in Vienna and the note for a cab driver (how to find the boat) was handed out in English. So don´t worry about that!

 

steamboats

[OhioDogLover]

We were on Deilmann this summer. The vast majority of the passengers were German. The hand outs were in both English and German. We found the service to be exceptional. The line does, in my opinion, tend to give some preference to Germans, but then, they are the majority of the passengers and the preference is really slight. If we were going to take another river cruise, we would book based on itinerary, but would not hestitate to book Deilmann. Deilmann did a very nice job.

[letsgo39]

Sorry Steamboats, did not mean to misquote you.

letsgo:o

[VAGuy]

You certainly should do your own research regarding flights to compare with the price quoted by your TA or cruise company. A good place to start is http://www.itasoftware.com. You cannot book a flight directly from this sight but it provides a wealth of information and is an excellent starting point.

 

We traveled with Avalon last year on their Legendary Danube cruise and were so well satisfied that we booked with Avalon again this year for the Romantic Rhine on November 5. Dress is casual on Avalon and jeans are acceptable. A few of the men wore sports jackets, but mostly sweaters and slacks. Smoking is NOT allowed inside the boat so there was no problem there.

 

I cannot comment from personal experience regarding Deilmann. From comments on this board, I think you would find Deilmann to be a bit more upscale as well as higher priced.

 

Suggest you seriously consider Avalon or perhaps Amadeus which is a direct competitor and receives good reviews as well. see http://www.amadeuswaterways.com

[cactuslady]

We were on the Peter Deilmann Casanova cruise just at the end of September. About half the passengers were German, half English and American (there was a tour group of Americans on board, which may be unusual). The dining room was split into a German side and an English-speaking side. The staff was very helpful to the English-speakers, although English was a second language for all of them. Announcements and handouts were in both languages, but it was quite clear that this was a German ship.

 

Dress was mostly upscale casual, with the one American tour group being the only jeans-and-T-shirt wearers. They did look out of place, both to the Germans and to some of the other Americans who tended to be dressier and chose Deilmann precisely because it is an upscale line. Formal nights were not very formal, a nice pants suit would do. Regardless of what else you wear, be sure to have good walking shoes suitable for uneven cobblestones.

 

Smoking was allowed on the top deck, in the cabins, and in part of the lounge. This was an issue for some of the non-smokers, who found it quite uncomfortable in any part of the lounge.

 

The food was all very European, they did not cater to American tastes. This generally means less sugar in desserts and less salt in everything else, with more subtle flavors. Dinners were 7 or so courses, with very nice service (the waiters made a point of serving the diners across from each other simultaneously, course after course). Servings were on the small side by American standards, with the meat dish generally being a sliced roast. There were no steaks, prime rib, lobster tails or other such American dishes offered. Pickled herring and rye bread at breakfast rather than big stacks of pancakes, and so on. The soups were outstanding and a big favorite at our table.

 

The cruise worked out fine for us. I am German and was eager to have a German, rather than American tourist, experience, and was not disappointed. However, if you would prefer more familiar food and customs, you might investigate one of the lines that concentrate on the American market.

[The Golds]

Peter Deilmann's Amsterdam to Frankfort or Avalon Waterways' Zurich to Amsterdam. Harley Woman

 

Hi don't know about the trips that you are looking at but can tell you we were on the Deilmann's Mozart a few years back and have recommended it to many of our friends. They and we had a wonderful time doing the Danube trip. No problems at all with the annoucements or crew. The food, cabin and everything else about the trip was fantastic. Would recommend the Deilmann Line to one and all.:)

 

Oh yes, and we are from Florida....

The Golds

[fozzy]

jgnova- I was on the next sailing, you're the sailing that had all of the flooding, right?

[mcintyre9454]

:) Harley Woman,

 

I can only address sailing on Peter Deilman. Sailed last October Berlin to Prague on the Chopin and absolutely LOVED IT!!!!! As previously stated, announcements were in both English AND German. Actually, I found it kind of fun because the German announcement was first, and I tried to test myself to see if my 5 years of school German classes could be put to use! Usually.....NO! :)

 

We found absolutely no inadvertent discrimmination against Americans on board, however, our cruise happened to have a majority of Americans on board and the Germans were the minority in numbers. I don't know if that made a difference.

 

The food was great, the service was wonderful. Cabins were very nice. Did not notice any smoking actually...but there again, maybe it was due to the high number of Americans on board.

 

By the way, I notice you are from Denver, PA...we are neighbors...I'm from Berks County! :)

[Bulabula]

I have been looking at Deilmann's ships and itineraries for some time and know nothing at all about Avalon. I have yet to actually sail on a Deilmann ship, though I'm sure it's only a matter of time. They dont have the same degree of group discounts that Viking has offered to my groups. I am also concerned about the smoking issue and have heard that the German market is their priority over English speaking clients. I have no first hand experience with this.

 

Having coordinated 4 Viking groups (Grand European, Normandy, Rhone, China) and a 5th in the works (Elbe), I have been very impressed with the Viking approach. Though they now have some excursions that are optional at and added cost, most of their tours are included in the price, making them the most convenient and affordable river cruise company that I have worked with. I am sending off a request for more information to Avalon as we speak.

 

So take a look at the Viking catalogue to see if they offer a sailing that meets your needs.

[jgnova]

Fozzy:

Steamboats was on the first sailing and had only a few hours of sailing because of flooding and high water. We were on the next and yes, there still was a good bit of flooding and high water -- we boarded in Vienna instead of Passau (i.e., long bus trip from Munich), had to be bussed to Budapest for that visit, missed a stop or two, but did end up in Passau on 4/9 when, I guess, you boarded and were fortunate enough to do the full itinerary. We saw and did most of what we were hoping to. We still loved the entire trip! Both Steamboats and we (both S & later J, much longer version) posted reviews.

S

[gillianrose]

Smoking was allowed on the top deck, in the cabins, and in part of the lounge. This was an issue for some of the non-smokers, who found it quite uncomfortable in any part of the lounge.

 

Smoking is absolutely NOT ALLOWED in the cabins, corridors, etc. on Peter Deilmann river cruises. It clearly states on p. 117 of their "Great Rivers of Europe 2006" brochure, under TRAVEL INFORMATION:

 

"SMOKING ON-BOARD

 

Smoking is not permitted on-board except on the open deck and in one designated area of the lounge."

 

Anyone who smoked in any other areas than stated above should have been reminded of Deilmann's policy and if they did not abide by it, should have been removed from the ship, at their own expense. Other passengers should not be made to suffer from the inconsiderate behavior of those that smoke where they should not.

 

The only reason that we did not book a Deilmann cruise (since I would love most of that German experience, myself) is because the lounge allows smoking in one section and you know how smoke travels. When Deilmann decides to restrict smoking further, i.e. the main observation lounge is also designated smoke-free, we'll be happy to cruise on that line.

 

Frankly, I appreciate European "resort casual" and freshening up before dinner. When I see photos and read reviews of river cruise experiences one of the biggest turnoffs is the jeans and running shoes crowd at dinnertime. A friend of ours went on a cruise where a lot of the people (North Americans) could not be bothered to change clothes or freshen up. She said that many

of these folks were actually rather stinky by the time dinner was served. Yecch!

[steamboats]

Gillianrose,

 

Yes, smoking was not allowed in the cabins and aisles on the MS Mozart (and the dining room). The Lounge wasn´t the problem. In fact I´ve rarely seen someone smoking there and the air condition did work pretty well on the smoke. But for getting into the lounge you had to cross the bar where smoking was allowed. And another "but" this was a cruise with only 6 non-German speaking passengers. I assume that smoking is only a minor issue on cruises marketed mainly in the US with more US passengers like jgnova´s cruise.

 

steamboats

[cactuslady]

Gillianrose,

 

Sorry for the error. I thought I remembered having to move an ashtray out of the way, but perhaps it was just the chocolates. :o

[gillianrose]

Gillianrose,

 

Sorry for the error. I thought I remembered having to move an ashtray out of the way, but perhaps it was just the chocolates. :o

 

When I was a kid, they could have been one and the same. Anyone remember candy cigarettes? I recall both the sugary white candy type and also some chocolate cigarettes in paper or foil.

 

Fortunately, I've never been the impressionable type. ;)

[gillianrose]

...for getting into the lounge you had to cross the bar where smoking was allowed.

 

I feel your pain. I have a vague recollection of having to walk through smoking areas to get to nonsmoking ones, but that was a really long time ago, as I live in California. :)

 

And another "but" this was a cruise with only 6 non-German speaking passengers. I assume that smoking is only a minor issue on cruises marketed mainly in the US with more US passengers like jgnova´s cruise.

 

I have been in many situations in Germany where I was the only American in a group and even then only rarely did I encounter smoke. The people I knew and their friends, family and colleagues, nearly all of whom were well-educated and physically active, did not smoke. Likely more Germans than Americans smoke, but there, as here, the better educated usually do not. Also, those that are smokers tended not to light up where they are significantly outnumbered. Except on cruise ships, that is. :(

 

I was both surprised and disappointed to learn that some influential German leaders have caved to tobacco interests and are blocking efforts to protect the public against secondhand smoke. There are some historical reasons for this, but nevertheless, they should be ashamed.

[steamboats]

gillianrose,

 

At least a ray of sunshine at the horizon: I just read that our Bavarian minister of health is still convinced to make a state law to ban smoke if the federal politicians don´t come up with a federal law. There´s still some hope!

 

steamboats

[wbrumel]

Never been on Deilman, but I certainly would go again on Avalon; see my recent post about my Danube cruise. I couldn't have been happier with Avalon and the Artistry.

[gillianrose]

gillianrose,

 

At least a ray of sunshine at the horizon: I just read that our Bavarian minister of health is still convinced to make a state law to ban smoke if the federal politicians don´t come up with a federal law. There´s still some hope!

 

I hope the Minister of Health of Bavaria succeeds. We'd go out of our way to spend money in Bavaria, perhaps fly there instead of Frankfurt or Berlin, to show our support.

 

Could you provide some links for me to read? (No translation needed.)

[steamboats]

gillianrose,

 

I only found one press release

 

http://www.stmugv.bayern.de/de/aktuell/presse/2006/396.htm

 

Latest I´ve heard is that a federal law should be effective by July 1 2007. They are still discussing details. All restaurants serving food should be non smoking unless they do have a separate room for smokers. They are still discussing what a restaurant is as we have many small pubs serving snacks like hot sausages or sandwiches. It´s still not clear if those pubs are regarded as restaurants or not. It´s still allowed to smoke in bars which don´t serve any food.

 

steamboats