Star Princess Fire Report Published

[Katelab]

The report seems to allow fire extinguishing systems OR using balcony furniture "of restricted fire risk".

 

I was expecting them to require fire extinguishing systems on the balcony. I had read they changed the furniture on the Star balcony. Have they added a fire extinguishing systems?

 

What are they doing on other ships?

[negc]

There is certainly enough blame to go around, from the smoker who carelessly disposed of the cigarette, to the Princess officials or ship's designers who okayed the use of flammable materials on the balconies and didn't feel that fire detection or suppression equipment was needed on those same balconies. All of them should have trouble sleeping at night. At least, we can hope that the people who design and build cruise ships have learned an important lesson and are more aware of the possible serious consequences to their decisions.

[Toto2Kansas]

The report seems to allow fire extinguishing systems OR using balcony furniture "of restricted fire risk".

 

I was expecting them to require fire extinguishing systems on the balcony. I had read they changed the furniture on the Star balcony. Have they added a fire extinguishing systems?

 

What are they doing on other ships?

 

 

We noticed on the CB in August that the balconys now DO have a sprinker system installed on each of them. I think this is going to be a fleet wide change, which is very comforting.

[mwlillie]

Fire onboard is probably the worst nightmare for any captain. As indicated in the report, some things were done in a heroic manner, and some things were done in a less then expected manner. But, isn't that the case in most tragedies of this type. Or, any type for that manner.

 

What should be taken away from this is that deficiencies have been identified, and corrective measures are being taken to minimize the risk (and no risk can be totally minimized, would people be willing to pay $200,000 for the average car to reduce traffic fatalities by 50 percent?)

 

Now, whether the culprit was a carelessly tossed cigarette, a static electricity spark or a micrometeorite from space, the true reason for the fire starting will never be known. I have seen people throw lit cigarettes over the rail (shame on them), I have also seen walking comatose drunks staggering against railings, children as young as 2 years old walking around the ship unsupervised and other situations where tragedy can occur. What needs to be done here is each individual needs to become more safety aware and take preventive measures to reduce or minimize risk to themselves or others.

 

I have my own standards of conduct, and am sometimes appalled by the various types of behavior I see, but I cannot and will not spend my time correcting others, or imposing my viewpoints or standards upon others except in cases of emergency or when I perceive significant increased risk to someone else.

 

The most important thing I think anyone can take away for all this is that life, no matter where it is, has risks, and the best action to take is to be knowledgeable of safety procedures, (does anybody out there actually walk from your cabin to your muster station other then during the muster drill?), astute awareness of actions that can increase risk and being prepared and propositioned to take appropriate action in times of emergency.

[spongerob]

What are they doing on other ships?

 

All ships are, or have been, fitted with not only balcony sprinkler systems but with heat detectors on each balcony. The heat detectors are very sensitive - one of them signaled the bridge from an adjoining cabin to ours when a passenger held a cigarette too close to one. A couple officers came to their cabin immediately to check on the alarm.

 

This was not an audible alarm by the way.

[nrdsb4]

Fire

What should be taken away from this is that deficiencies have been identified, and corrective measures are being taken to minimize the risk (and no risk can be totally minimized, would people be willing to pay $200,000 for the average car to reduce traffic fatalities by 50 percent?)

 

 

So true. They can minimize the risks in cruising, but cannot eliminate them. Important distinction. It seems like our society is beginning to feel entitled to guarantees of safety in all situations, and if something goes wrong, not only is someone to blame, someone surely must pay.

 

A wise CC poster once said "life is hazardous to your health.":)

[Katelab]

We noticed on the CB in August that the balconys now DO have a sprinker system installed on each of them. I think this is going to be a fleet wide change, which is very comforting.

 

I am really glad to hear Princess has added sprinklers in addition to the other steps they have taken. But, based on SOLAS recommendations in the report this is not required. I hope SOLAS adopts stronger changes in December 2006. I wonder what the other cruise lines are planning.

[cruzegirl]

Is everyone forgetting here that is arguing about smoking on cruise ships that there were non-smoking ships that didn't go well with the public? Remember the Carnival Paradise? How about Rennisance? Renisance went under, Carnival Paradise turned into a smoking ship.

 

If ALL ships went non-smoking, then smokers would either stop smoking or not cruise.. I don't see them not cruising. Maybe temporarily to try to prove a point but in the long run, I think they would stop smoking. Personally, I would love that. But I think that's drastic... But it would be nice if there were only 2 places/rooms and it not be the cabin. As a non-smoker, I hate going into a cabin that's been previously occupied by a smoker....

 

 

If all smokers would adhere to the smoking sections, and the non smokers to the non-smoking sections of a ship, then all this could be put to rest.

 

I agree.... If the smokers would adhere to the smoking areas and not smoke on deck..... As we all know, there are some considerate smokers and non-considerate.... But to prevent another problem as we don't know who's considerate and who's non-considerate, don't allow it other than 1-2 specific places where it can be better controlled. A person lost their life due to this accident.. I wonder what they would say right now about all this??

Cruisebore - I agree with you totally.

The partitions, deck tiles and plastic furniture were highly combustible.

Door were not fire rated.

No fire detection or fire systems were on balconies.

On the Crown they still had the deck tiles. But the furniture was metal, doors were rated and sprinklers were in place. Also noticed a change in ash trays. They are covered so the ashes can not blow away.

 

I hope all cruise ships are paying attention to this and changing to make it safer for all passengers....

[ssantow]

I have just completed reading the full report and the full annexes also provided. Several thing caught my attention.

1. Section 1.7 of fleet regulation SAF.1 reads: "You may have noticed that we have not had a roll call. This is because we have developed an emergency search procedure that enables us to determine that you are all safe much more quickly than can be achieved with a roll call"

It took six hours to finally determine that all passengers were accounted for. Confusion reigned as to the whereabouts of the poor passenger who died.

2. Calls to 911 by several passengers went unanswered because no one was manning the phones.

We later learn that due to the general alarm they all left the phones for other duties.

3. It is probable that a cigarette end was the sourse of the fire but if it were not for the carless tosing of a towel and "other highly flamable clothing" on the balcony, that lit end would have been harmless. (tounge in cheek, just to show how far we can go to place blame)

 

We should all be thankful that steps have been taken to reduce the risk of such a disaster in the future.

 

Fire safety tips

1. Feel your escape route for heat before opening the door.

2. Use a damp cloth to cover your nose and mouth from smoke.

3. Stay low. Crawl if you need to. Smoke is less dense at floor level.

4. Keep a small flashlight on your night stand and use it. (Note that the report says the emergency lighting was not visable)

5. Know both of your escape routes. (What you only planned one?)

6. Keep in physical contact with others in your group as you move to safety.

[caribbean dreams]

Ok, it sure seems it was the cigarette that started the fire.... And if it wasn't a cigarette, what else could it have been???

 

It could have been any number of things, 3 months ago while cruising, at 2am i saw a group of young men lighting cloth napkins on fire and throwing them off the back of the ship.

 

there would also be no evidence of how the fire started had it caused one.

[ssbeagle]

On the STar right now and in one of the cabins on Caribe deck that was destroyed. Our cabin steward was on board when it happened and he said that the passenger who died had a heart attack not directly related to the fire, but may not have happened if it wouldn't have been for the stress caused by the fire. He says it was very frightening at the time but everything was handled according to procedure. He was very happy it wasn't worse than it was.

[MaryPoppinz]

What other probable causes were considered but not ruled out?

[jagmanss1]

This thread along with all the others on this subject are for the sole purpose to do nothing more than to bash smoker's

 

This phrase and word was used......it was PROBABLY started by a cigarette.....PROBABLY..... being the word.....Also Probable Cause

[Host CJSKIDS]

On the STar right now and in one of the cabins on Caribe deck that was destroyed. Our cabin steward was on board when it happened and he said that the passenger who died had a heart attack not directly related to the fire, but may not have happened if it wouldn't have been for the stress caused by the fire. He says it was very frightening at the time but everything was handled according to procedure. He was very happy it wasn't worse than it was.

 

The official report is that the man died from smoke inhalation and yes he also had a heart condition. That morning while on board we were all told he died from a heart attack as that is what was first believed, but that is not the case. His cause of death is in the official report.

[Host CJSKIDS]

I was trying to edit the prior post, but it won't work for some reason.

 

The cabin steward may not know the official word on why the man died on our cruise as maybe he has been working so much.

I didn't mean to infer that he wasn't telling the truth, he may not have known the real answer since we were told a heart attack to begin with.

 

Hope you're enjoying your cruise ssbeagle, the Star is a beautiful ship.

[MauiLvrs]

This thread along with all the others on this subject are for the sole purpose to do nothing more than to bash smoker's

Get over it... Some dumb a@@ through their smoke over the side and burned up the ship. Unless your going to go with the metorite story and that isn't likely.

[robtulipe]

Cruising since 1987" but I lost track of all the cruises, and no one reads this section anyway...

 

Hey ssantow, I always note the number and which ships previously cruised if included with the poster's signature as sort of a rough gauge of the value of their posting.

I made up a list after about cruise # 10 since it seemed that this info was being requested of me quite often. After or just before a cruise I simply update it.

We leave today for SJ to catch Regal Pr. on Satureday, flying out of Buffalo and yes yesterday I installed my Ice and Snow Radial Tires on the vehicle being used to go to the airport.They got about 2 feet of snow on Friday the 13th.

I just added my cruise history as part of my CC signature so now it is both my computer and on my CC profile.

[Katelab]

This thread along with all the others on this subject are for the sole purpose to do nothing more than to bash smoker's

 

Investigation reports like this are typically worded "probable", "most likely", etc. These are the findings of people who have spent a lot of time and effort thuroughly investigating the fire.

 

Experts from several countries participated in this investigation. If you wish to believe they were all more interested in "bashing" smokers than doing a proper investigation than go right a head.

[arabrab]

The report seems to allow fire extinguishing systems OR using balcony furniture "of restricted fire risk".

 

I was expecting them to require fire extinguishing systems on the balcony. I had read they changed the furniture on the Star balcony. Have they added a fire extinguishing systems?

 

What are they doing on other ships?

 

I think you're slightly misunderstanding the role of the MAIB. Just like the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in the US, they're charged with investigating accidents to determine the probable cause, if possible, contributing factors, evaluation of the response, and then to make recommendations to regulatory authorities. However, they do not have the ability to mandate changes.

 

Their recommendations are taken quite seriously, and many are implemented, but the rule-setting process can take a while. In many cases the companies in the industry will go ahead and make changes even before the rule-making is concluded, or their insurer will require the changes. But, some proposals are quite expensive, and they undergo long study -- the proposals for fuel tank inertion on jets has been pending since 2000, and several hundred people onboard jets have died in crashes attributed to exploding fuel vapors.

 

The cruise industry responded very, very quickly to the Star fire, and at least in the case of the major lines, undertook major and very expensive changes to reduce the risk. It took many, many years for the airline industry to remove from cabins materials that were flammable or that produced toxic fumes.

 

I read the entire report, and while there are some areas of fire response that definitely require improvement, I was generally impressed with the quality of the response reported.

[jagmanss1]

Investigation reports like this are typically worded "probable", "most likely", etc. These are the findings of people who have spent a lot of time and effort thuroughly investigating the fire.

 

Experts from several countries participated in this investigation. If you wish to believe they were all more interested in "bashing" smokers than doing a proper investigation than go right a head.

I was not refering to the experts and investigators, I was refering to people like you and MauiLvrs and others on this thread and all the other threads like it.... That have nothing But rude and snide remarks against smokers.....

 

Hmm.... Would stand to reason with all the smokers on all the ships that go out weekly That there have not been a fire on every single ship every week.... So tell me when was the last time it was ever stated that A lit Cigarette was the probable cause of A fire?

[nrdsb4]

This thread along with all the others on this subject are for the sole purpose to do nothing more than to bash smoker's

 

Oh good grief. PLENTY of smokers as well as nonsmokers have repeatedly stated that they were very anxious to know what the final report would have to say, so naturally it would be discussed once it came out. I have seen no posts bashing smokers, though there are certainly people who dislike the practice of smoking. Sounds like you just don't want to admit a cigarette could possibly be the cause.

 

I think most people will read the report and conclude that the most important thing to be done (and apparently is being done) is to create a cruising environment that would be more resistant to the effects of a stray cigarette, not to ban smoking from all ships.

[Host CJSKIDS]

the purpose of this and most all (recent) threads on the Star fire is for non-smokers to vent and bash smokers!!

 

That said, what prompts non-smokers to bash smokers is that smokers expose the rest of us to potentially fatal health and casualty risks that we REALLY want no part of...

 

If the smokers want no part of non-smokers 'hot air' on these boards they have the choice of not clicking the mouse to these threads... If only non-smokers had such a similar option as to their 'hot air'...

 

Of course, its only "probable" that a cigarette caused the Star fire. Like its only probable that cigarettes are a health risk and that they're addictive...

 

But if they are addictive then we've got to take what the smokers say with a grain of salt since addiction is essentially a low grade form of insanity.

 

But smokers are right about getting bashed (every time they inhale).

 

I don't believe the purpose of the threads about the Star Fire are to give non-smokers a place to bash smokers....it's to give information that the report was out. For those of us involved, it's very important to get the word out that the report was done.

 

If you want a smoking bash thread, then please start one. You have every right to voice your opinion about smoking and every right not to like it.

Let's not turn this into a thread about the results of the investigation into rants about non-smoking vs the right to smoke or telling people that smokers have a low grade of insanity. Please, do not get this thread locked.

 

Yes, it may now seem probable that a cigarette caused the fire, but, without there being highly combustible materials it may have not turned into the incident that it did. I'm sure everyone would like to know how Princess is making changes so that something like this never happens again and this is a great place for people to read about the changes.

[Tina G]

Don't feed the troll.

[Katelab]

I was not refering to the experts and investigators, I was refering to people like you and MauiLvrs and others on this thread and all the other threads like it.... That have nothing But rude and snide remarks against smokers.....

 

I am not trying to bash smokers. I expect most smokers want a safe ship to sail on also.

I am engineer who has been involved in writing safety procedures and investigating lots of failures, a number of which have resulted in the loss of people’s lives. I have a problem with people who start nit picking wording and findings from the experts that worked this tragic event.

There is a difference between questioning and discussing issues and typing ”Probable” the way you chose too.

I think you misinterpret various people’s interest in this topic.

[Host Caroline]

If posts continue to appear hashing over/venting over etc. etc. the smoker v. nonsmoker issue, health aspects this thread will go poof!

Please please stick to the topic at hand which is the report, not the "same old same old" smoking issue... :rolleyes: