Request your opinion on cruise manager's suggested gratuity...

[CRUISTER]

Hello All,

 

I just returned from a Uniworld cruise on the Danube from Budapest to Passau. The cruise was for eight nights. (I would highly recommend the River Countess!)

 

There are a few recent forums that give detailed descriptions of this trip and what to expect from Uniworld. I have to agree with the consensus; a river cruise is a new, favorite way (for me) to see Europe.

 

I've been on over forty cruises, so I know about gratuities. I understand about how little the crew gets paid and how they depend on gratuities. I also know the staff on a cruise ship is paid well by the cruise company they work for and are not included in the recommended gratuities guidelines. So, needless to say, the guidelines Uniworld provided were a bit different in that aspect. I realize the guidelines may easily be misunderstood by a novice, such that I am, so I would like to add the disclaimer that this is the opinion of someone willing to learn from more experienced river cruisers.

 

I feel that the suggested shared gratuities for the staff and crew ($13 per person, per day) to be unfair and inadequate when compared to the cruise manager's suggested gratuity ($4 per person, per day). After crunching the numbers, we figured, based on 116 passengers, that the staff and crew would receive a little over $300 each for the eight nights, if every one gave them at least the suggested amount. However, we calculated that the cruise manager alone was going to receive approximately $3700 based on the same criteria. That is a big tip in my world!

 

I imagine someone reading this can give me some insight into a cruise manger's world to help me comprehend the disparity. My one question is, "Does the cruise manager also get a salary from Uniworld?"

[DeniceRG]

My one question is, "Does the cruise manager also get a salary from Uniworld?"

 

I haven't worked for Uniworld, but have for other companies as the tour director on board a ship (larger ships, not river cruises). I was paid minimal by the tour company, and depended on tips. We did alot of work for our group, alot that was behind the scenes, in addition to what the cruise line did.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Denice

[snb3]

Ooh!, this could be very helpful. I've been on one short cruise prior and will be leaving for our first river cruise in 3 wks. The one thing I find questionable about cruises is this tip issue. Tip here, tip there (???). Leave your tip in the wrong area & the person helping you doesn't get it. Our short cruise, @ our behest, told our room attendant that we didn't need our room made over daily as we are good about making our beds, etc. But we still felt obligated to tip the normal amount. I'm sure our river cruise will be the same. Do we tip just our waitor & room attendant or must we account for every busy body/ chef /other staff on board?

 

I would like someone who's a river cruise veteran or someone who've worked on a river cruise boat to chime in on what would be "a proper tip amount" for a satisfactory job done. Also, would a lesser tip be a good hint regarding substandard service?

[steamboats]

snb3,

 

Tipping guidelines depend on the cruise company. There´s no general guideline on how to tip.

 

Like on Deilmann´s Mozart the guidelines were EUR 8 per passenger per day. Those EUR 8 were split like this: EUR 2 per passenger per day each for the cabin attendant, each of the two waiters and the wine steward. There was also a box for extra tips to be devided amongst the rest of the crew. There was no tipping of the cruise director/hotel manager/shore tour manager. I didn´t see anyone tip the bus driver or the guides.

 

CRUISTER,

 

As far as I understood the staff is usually hired by the cruise company (or by a third company "renting" the staff to the boats). Basic wages in Europe are much higher than in the US and especially on ocean going cruise ships. People do not depend that much on tips. In some cases the cruise director is not hired by the cruise company as permanent staff but is a contractor working more or less as a free lancer. So he doesn´t get much from the cruise company but is depending on the tips.

 

Maybe Heintje can add more to this topic if he´s online.

 

steamboats

[wbrumel]

I just returned from the Avalon Artistry Danube cruise and was surprised by the amount suggested for the cruise director. While he was good, he did nothing special for me that would warrant an extra tip. I ended up leaving him 50 euro but mostly because that's what currency I had left. We did the math: he would realize about US$5,000 if everyone on board gave him a similar tip. Not bad. [since the cruise director was with us on land in Prague for the precruise tours, his tip was based on 10 days]. The crew, on the other hand, split the $200 I left. Somehow, I think there's quite an inequity there that I will handle differently in the future, regardless of what the "guidelines" say.

[DeniceRG]

Just wanted to clarify my response above, I was not a Cruise Director, but a Tour Director, hired by a tour company to take care of our group, not the whole passenger list (sometimes, our groups could get as high as 500 people).

 

Denice

[TataTom]

We are back from a two week Budapest to Amsterdam cruise on the Amadeus Amadagio. Our service was first class all the way. We booked through Brendan Worldwide Vacations, and were pleased with all aspects of working with them.

 

We were told that an appropriate tip would be 3 euro per day per person for the cruise director and 12 euro per person per day for the crew. We were told that the crew preferred to lump all their tips into one amount and then split it, rather than them accepting individual tips. Seemed fair, since the crew that did not contact the passengers would get the scrapings from the bottom of the tip barrel otherwise.

 

We followed these suggested amounts. Doing the arithmetic, the cruise director would receive (133 passengers, assume all tip the recommended amount) 133 X 14 X 3 = 5586 euros. Based on the amount of effort he put into making our cruise a success, I did not feel that this was excessive, comfortable, yes, but not excessive. He was basically busy at least 16 hours per day for 14 days. Doing some more arithmetic, that means he earned 5586 / 14 / 12 = 25 euros per hour. That is a lot less than I pay the plumber. Add on his nominal salary from the cruise line and he is still probably making less than a plumber.

[relevart]

I usually tip the suggested amount. On my last river boat cruise there were 5 Tour Directors and they were each responsible for a bus load of people. They all had to speak very good English and know everything about what we were seeing. They got a lot but I think they deserved it. They worked very hard. They work on the boats for only 4-5 months out of the year and then need to find another job.

 

I was surprised to learn when I was on Viking a few years ago that everyone from the dishwasher to the captain got the same amount of the tips. I don't think it is fair for the captain to share in the tips but that is the way it is.

[steamboats]

Don´t forget the taxes! Income tax can eat up up to half of the amount of tips the CD might get. If the CD is a free lancer and no employee of the cruise company he also has to pay for his health insurance and more.

 

steamboats

[Heintje]

 

Thanks Steamboats for alerting me to this thread;

It is interesting that tipping is becoming such an issue. People are obviously not aware that when tips would be translated in a decent salary for the crew or cruise director, the price of the cruise would be much more expensive and most people would still feel obliged to give a tip for a job well done.

I am happy to see that that the readers of this forum can calculate the amount of guests multiplied by the amount of days, multiplied by the suggested amount. This total indeed gives most of us a decent, but by far not excessive income. This is before taxes and, since most of us are freelance, also before insurances, which costs for our profession, I can assure you, are high.

Since the tourism business is mainly a seasonal one, most of us manage not more that 150 days of work, in bad years noticeably less. During those days, we work 16 hours or longer per day. The fact that you have a hassle free cruise is largely because of those hours we put in. During the season, that means seven days a week, one cruise after the other……. Don’t forget that beside the visible jobs of a cruise director, like giving lectures, running commentary organizing your excursions, there are a substantial amount of hours spent on work behind the scene; administration, bookkeeping, research on the historical background of your tour/cruise. How about organizing the timing on board of your ship for meals, writing the daily programs, background information etc? Our job is certainly not a vacation, what a lot of people quite often think. Very few professions have such a high fallout due to stress, heart or other health related problems. A cruise director has to love his job and has to be totally dedicated, if not, our guests would know so right away, which immediately means less tip. That is where you, our guests, come in, because of your tips, you assure that only the good cruise directors will stay on.

Your show of appreciation will keep qualified cruise directors working for the better cruise companies. If this income from tipping would disappear, just imagine the kind of cruise directors or crew you would get to take care of your cruise. We all know the saying “if you get paid in peanuts, you’ll find monkeys to do the work”. Would you like your well earned vacation, to be ruined by a monkey?

Tipping serves a purpose. It gives you, our guest, the possibility to show your appreciation, or discontent with a crew, or cruise director.

Just as an afterthought; compare the $5-10 tip you give to your taxi driver for driving you 15 minutes and taking your suitcase out of the trunk. Or the $10-20 or more tip you give to your waiter for an hour job at your table. How about the porter, who expects at least $2 per suitcase for carrying your suitcase on a trolley and roll it to your room? Don’t you agree that paying $3-5 per day to your cruise director is money well spent if you have an enjoyable cruise which can be largely attributed to him or her.

[frac]

Well put, and we could not agree more. Please keep up the excellent work.

 

Pat & Larry

Corpus Christi, TX

[sandydownunder]

Thankyou Heintje for your insight into the role of cruise director. I heartily agree that without tipping our cruises would be more expensive.

 

In Australia tipping is not the norm on most occassions. We have even booked ocean cruises where gratuities have been included in the purchase price. When I commented to the TA that this is not usual she replied "that's because Australians don't tip!".

 

I found your last paragraph confirms what I have observed- SOME Americans tip for the slightest service and SOMETIMES not for more important things. We have just returned from an Amazon cruise. In Manaus we went on an independent tour to see the meeting of the waters. Our guide was excellent, knowledgeable and personable. Four of us (all Aussies ) rewarded him for his service, most of the Americans on board did not. I understand it is a personal choice.

 

We have wheeled suitcases so we can take care of our own luggage and avoid the tip. In the scheme of things $2 to move a case a few hundred yards does not compare to rewarding someone with whom you spend a whole day, when that person has given you insights and understandings into his/her culture.

 

Sandra

[steamboats]

Heintje,

 

Thank you very much! I came pretty close. On those boats where you´re expected to tip the CD, the CD is working as a freelancer. The high amount of tips isn´t as high after income taxes and insurance.

 

Sandy,

 

In Germany we´re also not used to tip. Basic wages are higher and only few people get a major part of their income out of tips (like a waiter, the assistant of a hairdresser, a porter). Usually the waiter in a restaurant gets a tip but you more or less add something, f.e. if the bill is 22.75 EUR you´re giving 25 EUR. On our trips to the US we had to "learn" how to tip. So you´re following guidelines like 15-20% of the bill. Since I got used to tip on our vacation trips I started to give higher tips here in Germany too. But if the service in a restaurant (and / or the food) is really lousy I do "reward" this in my tip.

 

steamboats

[mac321]

I have no problem with tipping, I did however have a problem with the way it was handled on Tapestry.

 

I would have preferred the value of the tips to be included in the price of the cruise. Why isn't this done?

 

We all know the saying “if you get paid in peanuts, you’ll find monkeys to do the work”.

Have you considered that if you pay more peanuts you might get bigger monkeys.;) .

[Heintje]

I think I made myself quite clear on why tips aren't included. Would you mind elaborating on which way the tipping was taken care of on the Tapestry?

[mac321]

I have no problem with tipping and I do so on the basis that it is a discretionary payment for excellent service. On Tapestry I tipped more than the recommended amount - why? - because we had a fantastic time and realise that everyone from the cruise director down to the person washing the dishes contributed to the success of the trip.

 

the price of the cruise would be much more expensive and most people would still feel obliged to give a tip for a job well done.

I really don't understand why it can't be included in the ticket price. The end result is the same. Why would anyone feel "obliged" to give a tip when they know that they have already paid for a "job well done".

 

We gladly paid for a "job well done" by all the crew, and then we gave more to individual crew members for their excellent service. The way that these individuals personally dealt with us has ensured that the memories of the trip will stay with us for many years.

 

To call the payments to the crew and cruise director a tip is ridiculous - it is bordering on a mandatory payment. Two envelopes with your cabin number written on them were placed in our cabin and you were told how much money you should place in them. You were made to feel "obliged" to tip the recommended amount. This is not what tipping is about.

[steamboats]

mac321,

 

Tips are a great way to lower the basic price of a cruise. Lets say it like this: 14 days for 1.999 sound much better then 14 days for 2.500. And this sells much better :) . Only a few people are really checking those hidden extra costs like tips, optional shore tours, drinks for the meals (not to speak about the bar bills). Those hidden extra costs are also quite common on ocean ships.

 

And it also depends on the market you´re plying on. We Europeans are not used to tipping. All inclusive is very popular with hotels. That´s why German based ocean liners are much more expensive than the US ships (not regarding the fact that they are much smaller). But many of them offer all inclusive regarding the tips and the beverages. And this adds up to the cruise price.

 

The other thing might be a saving on the wages. Especially in Germany the employer has to pay a lot of money to social security, taxes, health insurance. So when the employee gets 1.000 EUR the employer has to pay an extra 800 EUR. All tips have to be declared by the employee reagarding income taxes. So the employer saves by paying basic wages and let the passengers tip his employees.

 

steamboats

[TataTom]

Steamboats is right, most people tend to make the comparison based on the listed cruise price, and don't take into account the added costs of excursions, tipping, wine, bar tabs, etc. When we booked our cruise it was a choice between Viking and Amadeus, and we selected Amadeus because the wine and beer with dinner was included in the price.

 

If you have employees, you can readily understand why you would want to shift as much of their compensation away from your books as possible, and this exactly what the current tipping situation does. Personally, I would prefer an all-inclusive price, but I also understand that my total cost would be even higher than it is now with the current system with tips added.

 

My advice...just go with the flow and have fun!

[CRUISTER]

Thank you, All, for your opinions on this topic. And, Heintje, thank you for the knowledge of one who has been there. I can honestly say I did not think of some of the points you, or some of the others that posted their replies, listed as reasons.

 

We put a lot of thought into our decision before deciding to give more to the staff and crew than we did to the cruise manager. One reason, out of many, that factored into our decision was the cruise manager's demeanor. It was downright rude in some cases. Comments he made about certain guests, under his breath, in the earshot of others (us) and his short, terse answers to inquiries took us by surprise. And, because he was tall enough, his practice of looking over heads, when he passed you, could, possibly, have been overlooked once or twice, but not when it happened every time during the cruise! It got to the point where I would try to make eye contact with him, so he would have to acknowledge us. He never allowed it to happened. He looked right over ours heads to a point in front of him. You may be asking yourselves by now what we did to deserve the cold shoulder treatment. Honestly, we were asking ourselves the same question. There was no warranted reason for such rudeness.

 

The compensation for the part of his job that he did well was, rightfully, affected by the flaws he showed us in his public persona.

 

In the future, the comparisons made between a cruise managers' gratuity and how we Americans tip others in the service community will be recalled at the appropriate time.

[letsgo39]

:confused: I agree with you Mac321. That sounds like blackmail,not tipping. An envelope left in your cabin with the cabin # on it!!! That is REALLY tacky!!

I really don't think that is the way it should be handled at all.:eek:

 

I have taken several land tours with Globus and always tipped very well but I have never had a TD or anyone else tell me how much to tip or given me an envelope to put the tip in. Maybe we should start a revolt and use our own envelope.What would they do hold us hostage?LOL:D :D

[AliceS]

We cruise often with Princess and they put $10 pp per day on your ship board account for tips. If you want, you can contact the purser and have them removed and tip on your own. We like the auto tip thing. We tip extra for excellent service. I don't mind the cruise company making recommendations for tips. It is, after all, a guideline and some might wonder what would be appropriate.

[Hlitner]

We have been fortunate to have cruised on more than 40 different cruise ships around the world and have also done a couple of river cruises in China and Egypt. We have been on some cruise lines where tipping was discouraged (even "not allowed) and its interesting to note that these lines are the so-called higher class cruise lines where service was always top notch. Yes, we do tip on our cruises and often tip above the guidelines when the service is very good (quite often). However, the cruise lines (and some staff) are now trying to make passengers feel "obligated" to tip to make up for their low wages. I have a problem with this attitude. We travelers did not ask anyone on cruise lines or river boats to take jobs at substandard wages...that was their choice. I will continue to tip on cruises and river boats, but my tipping amounts will be simply based on the quality of service received, not some arbitrary guidelines. By the way, we just returned (a few days ago) from 2 weeks in Egypt which included a 4 day Nile cruise aboard one of the better boats (Oberoi Philae). When I ask the cruise manager for their tipping guidelines he simply responded that they do not have any suggested guidelines and we should tip whatever we feel is appropriate. It was really interesting to hear the passenger discussions about what was "appropriate."

 

Hank

[frac]

"We travelers did not ask anyone on cruise lines or river boats to take jobs at substandard wages...that was their choice."

 

Well Hank, I guess you did ask them for great service, expect them to have good knowledge of you destinations, expected them to clean your room to your satisfaction. That was their job. Wow why did you tip at all?

 

Larry

[AliceS]

Ouch! Let's not get ugly here folks. Tipping is a personal matter. The upscale lines charge a whole lot more for their product and perhaps pay more. I think guidelines are OK and help new cruisers to feel like they know what's expected. We always tip for good service. I have rarely had bad service on a cruise. We never went back on that line.

[letsgo39]

Comeon Larry.Your missing the point.It is nothing to get ticked off about. It is not a matter of tipping that is the problem. It is the manner in which tips are solicited.Leaving envelopes in the cabins with the cabin number on the envelope is really tacky. So what do they do,mark off the people who tip and how much and then drop everyone elses luggage in the river?:D (just kidding) Why are the cabin numbers put on the envelopes?They must be keeping track of the tip amounts and who left them for some reason. I think we should all use our own envelopes.:rolleyes: