Straights attending FOD meetings

[etoile]

Aside from the fact that it would be awfully long if you put all that in the daily schedule...it isn't very common that you see all that used. Very, very few queer-oriented groups are so politically correct as to use all those letters. In fact, many groups just say G&L and leave out everything else. I find GLBT to be sufficiently inclusive - most questioning, intersexed, and asexual people know what GLBT means and are likely to still show up if you just put GLBT in the schedule. Assuming they want to go, that is.

 

But that huge alphabet soup is not really very common except among very politically correct organizations. GLBT is usually sufficient. :rolleyes:

[Ephraim]

But that huge alphabet soup is not really very common except among very politically correct organizations. GLBT is usually sufficient. :rolleyes:

 

I'd be happy with almost anything except that tired ol' Friends of Dorothy name. Frankly, I haven't had a door on my closet in 17 years and neither has my huzband. And if you are in the closet, I don't imagine you are going to show up at a public meeting anyway. There are plenty of Gays and Lesbians who don't know what it means. The term is just too old.

 

The reason for calling it Friends of Bill W is definitely anonymity. But they also put a line in for the women with the red hats. Heck, on Princess there were meetings for a lot of different groups, including teachers (where amazingly half the teachers were from the GLBT meeting anyway.)

 

So, has anyone ever seen someone transgendered on a ship? (I'm assuming pre-op)

 

I'm here, I'm queer, want to see of a picture of my hubby from when we met? :D

[derf5585]

has my huzband.

 

Is that a mizprint or is that a term of endearment?

[shepp]

So, has anyone ever seen someone transgendered on a ship? (I'm assuming pre-op)

 

Hey, that brings up an interesting point. I know a goodly number of transguys. I've hung out with them, had sex with a couple, even been invited to be on a panel on trans/biomale dating. But even so, if I saw an announcement of an onboard meeting of FTMs, I wouldn't attend. (Except maybe to do what I suggested - show up at the start, introduce myself, and be gone.)

 

See, I was taught a long time ago by feminists that members of a hegemonic group always assume that they get to go anywhere. (Just ask straight women how often they'll be talking to one another, only to have some man barge in, assuming that the "gals" are itching to relate to him.)

 

So I, a bioguy, would not sulk if I were excluded from a meeting of gay FTMs. Sorry, I wouldn't. I wouldn't whine about "discrimination," nor imagine that the transguys would be somehow better off if they sat down in a circle with me and we all sang Kumbaya. There are, thank heavens, plenty of ways for me to learn about gender stuff and get to know trannies without traipsing into putatively trans space. And no, I don't think mine is a "vitriolic" position. I think it really has to do with respecting the boundaries of others...without making them insist.

 

Straight people are always with us - for the better, worse, and indifferent. Like I said, I'm no separatist - some of my best friends are straight. ;) I welcome hets' supportive presence at queer parades, just as I think that queers should be a visible presence at, say, mostly straight antiwar demos, or that gay men should go to prochoice rallies. And all hail student gay/straight alliance groups! But there's something about straights coming to an ostensibly queer meeting (which is, I believe, what FOD get-togethers are generally understood to be) that makes me wonder why they want to. Because hubby doesn't like show tunes and we gay boys all do love our Streisand? To satisfy their curiosity? I'm not questioning Derf's goodwill. I'm really, truly not. It's just that the flood of Wikipedia cites makes me feel like I'm part of someone's science project.

 

If hets truly want to bond with random onboard gays, why don't they ask the CD to schedule a "Straights for Gay Rights" meeting and invite us to attend? Gosh, I'd even promise not to make any critiques of mandatory monogamy, or rail against stereotypical notions of gender...

 

See? I'm a nice guy. It's just that I've lived in San Francisco long enough to remember how great Hallowe'en in the Castro was before the straight lookie-loos descended en masse and royally screwed things up...

[derf5585]

To satisfy their curiosity? I'm not questioning Derf's goodwill. I'm really, truly not. It's just that the flood of Wikipedia cites makes me feel like I'm part of someone's science project.

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. And maybe others here feel the same way. If I have offended anyone I am sorry. Linking is just my style. But for you I'll dispense with wilipedia.

 

 

Thought for a new TV program

Straight Eye For The queer Guy

[Blazerboy]

Ah, Shepp, again, I totally (or as totally as one is capable on one of these forums...) get where you're coming from! I too have lived in S.F for almost half my (rapidly advancing!:eek: ) life, and I LOVE it when people get the need for respect of "____-only" space for the disempowered or marginalized.:cool:

 

But maybe life in the suburbs has made me lose my edge...:rolleyes: Or maybe I don't feel as disempowered anymore...perhaps that's why I don't focus only on the FOD meetings when on a cruise.

 

But I bet if straight folks took your cue, 9 times out of ten, they'd be invited to stay....:)

 

Vive la revolution!;) N'est pas, darling?

 

Andrew

[capi]

You've got that right. Thanks!

[etoile]

I'm sorry you feel that way. And maybe others here feel the same way. If I have offended anyone I am sorry. Linking is just my style. But for you I'll dispense with wilipedia.

I have honestly wondered about it too, mostly I tried to overlook it and I wasn't going to say anything. It doesn't bother me that much but I did find it kind of strange. :o

[Blazerboy]

Etoile, here's where I admit my nerdiness...I look things up, and then post...I just don't cite my sources! ;) (cuz' I like to look smart:D )

 

So applause, Derf, for being honest about the source of your knowledge! But I'm just as happy chatting with you directly, and if you don't know something, and I might have the answer, feel free to ask. While I'm not necessarily an open book, I'll totally comfortable both admitting my ignorance, and letting people know when I'd rather not answer a question...:)

 

Andrew (What pep pills IS that boy on???:eek: )

[CindyM64]

But there's something about straights coming to an ostensibly queer meeting (which is, I believe, what FOD get-togethers are generally understood to be) that makes me wonder why they want to. Because hubby doesn't like show tunes and we gay boys all do love our Streisand? To satisfy their curiosity?

 

Since I was one of the straights who sincerely wanted to know whether I would be welcomed or deemed intrusive at an FOD party, I am happy to answer this (but I only speak for myself :D ).

 

I am single and I often cruise alone. Although I enjoy my own company enough to travel this way rather than sit home and wait for all of my friends to join me, it is fun to meet new people to hang with while cruising.

 

In my experience, I often have more in common (politically, socially, culturally, hobbies, etc) with the G&L people I meet on cruises (and elsewhere, for that matter) than I do with the hetero couples. I don't have kids, most hetero couples do, and they like to talk about them a lot. Most hetero couples on cruises are quite a bit older than I am, and while they make lovely dinner companions, I rarely find such a couple that I can really "let my hair down" with. Sometimes the generation gap is too great, other times the wife acts like I'm after her man, and often they just don't appreciate my best George W. jokes.

 

And hetero singles? They haven't been easy to find. I've never been to a singles party where more than two people were in attendance, and sometimes I've been the only one there...that was fun.

 

So my interest in attending an FOD gathering is not sinister or voyueristic (as someone suggested). It was simply a thought about another way to meet some cool people who I might have more than a few things in common with.

 

I appreciate all the honest answers to this question, especially the more respectful ones, even if the poster would rather not have me attend. If I didn't care what the answer to the question was, I wouldn't have asked--I would have just showed up to the next gathering I saw with complete disregard for whether I was welcome or not.

 

By the way, I hate show tunes. :eek:

 

Cindy

[Ephraim]

Is that a mizprint or is that a term of endearment?

 

Not a misprint, it's often used by Gays. In many countries, like the US, they can't legally be your husband (though it's perfectly legal here in Canada).

 

There are a few other Gay terms around and some Gay slang.

[Ephraim]

By the way, I hate show tunes. :eek:

 

Well, I do like my S&M (Streisand and Midler.) I like show tunes. Heck, I'm a big fan of AbFab and the Vicar or Dibley. But draw the line at Celine and I'm a Montrealer. There is just a limit to how much Celine I can take.

 

We were in Hawaii and almost every second song was Celine and I nearly went crazy. I also don't like Cirque du Soliel and worse I can't stand Cavalia.

 

Now, I'm fully up for some G W Bush jokes. And I love anyone who is open to discussing politics without getting insulted. Who loves British TV. Who's there to have some fun and who knows a bit about the rest of the world. So, if you are ever on a cruise that I'm going on, drop me a note, we'll see if you can be at the same table as us.

[Cruise Arizona]

When I first posted on this thread it was pretty innocuous. Thanks to all of you who gave honest and not insulting responses. (Pro or Con)

 

I hadn't looked at it for while, but saw it come up on the main board.

 

Wow, I was reading the recent posts and seeing my self being called all kinds of names because I am strait and have a few gay friends or have made gay friends on cruises.

 

I think that if someone called me one of those names to my face I would be in tears.

 

I also had my religion insulted, but I won't go into that.

 

I want to say something eloquent here about the difference between disagreement and a level of intolerance that leads to hate, but I'll never be as eloquent as my friend Andrew.

 

I have enjoyed meeting gays on many of my cruises, but the friendships have always struck-up at other venues, not FOD meetings. Places like the piano bar or "name that tune" or trivia games.

 

Onetime there was an FOD meeting at like 6:00 in the Champagne bar, right as we were headed in for dinner and I thought I might be able to say hello to a roll call member at that meeting, and it was in the room we were passing through anyway to get to the dining room anyway. But that has been the only time I've "attended" an FOD meeting. (I introduced myself and then went on to dinner.) Very nice guys by the way.

 

Anyway, If I was cruising with my friend Andrew(Blazer Boy), or my cousin Viv, and they invited me to attend with them, I would gladly go, Just please don't call me a names. I used to detest it when a name was thrown out at one of my friends in college..."F** Hag".

 

I absolutely hated when people called her that.... why.??.. well they were being pretty mean and shallow!!!...She had a bombshell figure and simply had grown tired of frat boys that only had one thing on their mind. She could go out with her gay friends and not have to worry about them trying to put the moves on her. For that, others at my school called her names. (By the way she was our class valedictorian too, so she had the smarts thing going for her too.)

 

Any friendship that is balanced and respectful is a good thing no matter what the sexual orientation of the parties involved.

[CindyM64]

So, if you are ever on a cruise that I'm going on, drop me a note, we'll see if you can be at the same table as us.

 

I may just take you up on that, tyvm. :) I see you've traveled the Caribbean extensively. I love that area of the world so much I actually moved there in 1995 (and even married a sea captain). Unfortunately, a hurricane blew us back to the mainland, but it sure was fun while it lasted and I love going back to visit.

 

My next cruise is something completely different for me...a Celebrity Infinity voyage r/t from Buenos Aires with three days in Rio for Carnaval. I leave in 18 days, and can hardly wait! I've never sailed on Celebrity, never been to South America, and never even went to Mardi Gras in New Orleans. So I'm broadening my horizons with huge brushstrokes this time. :p

 

Cindy

[Blazerboy]

Suzanne,

 

Just as elsewhere on the boards, I think most here are respectful of anyone's participation, be it on-line, or on a ship. :) I think some good things have come out of this discussion...even if just that a few people have learned that there might need to be some sensitivity to people's desire to have 'safe space' and even some good suggestions on how to handle the interactions at an FOD meeting. I'm a little more aware myself that, while I'm comfortable with whatever mixture makes up the party, others might have different goals, and that's o.k., and I'll try to respect that.

 

I DO understand the frustration of having to explain, to educate, to sometimes even justify who we are, and to elucidate what the issues are in our community all the time, but, as stated, I'm willing to work to build bridges, even in the effort from others at first seems self serving (they just want dance partners!:rolleyes: ) or uninformed ("do you ALL like musicals?";) ) I love to dance (Ed can't follow!), and love musicals (He hates 'em), go figure!:D

 

Respect is respect is respect...and we can all use an extra dose of tolerance and empathy for others' viewpoints. But you're right, "bashing back," even with just pejorative names doesn't advance anyone.:cool:

 

Andrew

[friend of Eeyore]

Just as elsewhere on the boards, I think most here are respectful of anyone's participation, be it on-line, or on a ship. :) I think some good things have come out of this discussion...

Thank you Andrew, for your thoughts throughout this thread. I've read through this thread through the past week or so. As a straight happily married person, I probably wouldn't have the urge to go to a FOD meeting. However, I've thought about what it might be like to meet with other people (GLBT, str8, whatever) who share my similar interests, thoughts, etc. I've wondered if the FOD meetings would hold a similar make-up of my UU retreats I went to as a teen.... full of questioning people, liberal for the most part, lots of friendly people....

 

Like Suzanne, I'd probably feel comfortable passing through and saying hello to someone from my roll-call. Thank you to the many people who have indicated that behavior like that wouldn't be questioned by most of those in attendance. And, thank you to those of you that have indicated that anything more than that would be an intrusion. It is the thoughts of those people that have kept me from intruding (not that my one cruise gives me much to go on), when my presence may have caused others stress/whatever.

 

Thank you Derf, for bringing up a thought-provoking question. And, I love seeing your "links". They often bring a smile to my face!

[Blazerboy]

Cathy? UU camp! Bet that was more fun! :) My church camp with the Congregationalists and Boy Scout camp probably didn't measure up....:rolleyes:

 

Thanks for your nice words....

 

Andrew

[Travelisfun]

How do we find out about these meetings? Does anyone know if they have them on the NCL Jewel? We'll be there Feb 25, 2007. And is it mainly gay men or a mix? Thanks!!

[Ephraim]

How do we find out about these meetings? Does anyone know if they have them on the NCL Jewel? We'll be there Feb 25, 2007. And is it mainly gay men or a mix? Thanks!!

 

On NCL they usually list them as "Friends of Dorothy" and they are listed in the Freestyle Daily. If they aren't scheduled, just ask the CD or the ACD. And ask them to send a host for the first meeting, it really does facilitate things and gives everyone a person to look for, in order to make introductions.

 

(Still wish that NCL would grow up and change the name, it's antiquated.)

[derf5585]

(Still wish that NCL would grow up and change the name, it's antiquated.)

 

And they don't even go to Norway.

[etoile]

Hey Cathy, I was a UU growing up too! I'm not much of anything anymore, but it's still the church I feel closest to. :)

[etoile]

And they don't even go to Norway.

Actually, they do! The Norwegian Dream goes to Oslo on its Baltic Capitals itinerary.

 

There's an interesting book called Devils on the Deep Blue Sea that talks about how NCL got its start - it really did start from a Norwegian family.

[Ephraim]

Actually, I was more commenting on the "Friends of Dorothy" term being completely out of date. Just like the term "thou," "gramophone," "eight-track tape" and "groovy". There are just too many people who don't know what it means... and they are Gay.

[Blazerboy]

Gee, Ephraim...I know what it means, and I've known since I was about 20...guess I'll go put the spats on my shoes, crank up the old Model T, and mosey into town to the local saloon...:(

 

Sure know how to make a guy feel old, don't ya'!:D And I'm only 44!:p

 

I think we're hitting that in-between space where, while many DO know what it means, it's generally us older folks, or us folks that have been cruising for a while. And cruising's become so popular that it's reaching a wider audience....So you're probably right that a new term is needed, but don't throw this one out yet! It makes me feel like a man-in-the-know!;)

 

Andrew

[etoile]

For what it's worth, I just turned 26 and I have known what FOD meant for many, many years. But perhaps I am more interested in queer history than most?