Question on climbing walls and Blackjack

[Tapped Out Again]

Hiya all,

 

I was wondering about the climbing walls and the Casino Blackjack they have on RCI, (I'm going out on Rhapsody in the next month).

 

1) Does it only open for a couple hours a day? Is there usually a huge line for it such that you can't climb whenever you want?

 

2) Is the wall set only for kids and tourists? By that, I mean, are the staff running the wall real climbers such that they would set something that would challenge themselves(and therefore experienced climbers), or is pretty much everything on the wall doable by any athletic 10 year old.

 

3) Does the casino have restricted hours as well?

 

4) Does anyone remember the rules they have for blackjack on the ship? I've heard 5 -deck, S17, DAS, and about 60% penetration. If these terms mean something to you please confirm them!

 

Thanks.

[KeyOfSea]

I can't answer the questions on the rock wall.

 

The casino has set hours but there is usually at least one BJ table going. I think that it's 4 decks although I heard that some ships have a single deck with 'stronger' rules. Dealer hits on soft 17. I'm not sure what DAS is. 60% penetration sounds about right - maybe 70%.

[Tapped Out Again]

DAS would be double after split, which they should allow in most places.

 

:)

[D4]

We were on the Legend last week. One of my daughters loved the rock wall. There were 4 different difficulty levels. I think they were almost always open two of these time slots each day: 9-11am, 2-5pm, 4-6pm, 7-9pm, 9-11pm. Which 2 time slots it was varied each day. They were open 9-11 when we were in port which was weird and of course there were no lines. The last afternoon was the only time I saw a big line. I guess everyone that had been putting off trying it decided to do it. Most of them were first timers.

 

Be sure you bring socks - they are required to wear with their special shoes. And if you have kids under 18, the parent has to fill out a permission slip once each day they climb at the rock wall.

[Tapped Out Again]

tttt

[Jim M]

Be careful before you sit at a Blackjack table, some of them are single deck tables.

 

Jim M

[BabySam99]

5-deck means a 5 deck shoe...so they use five decks to play. I used to deal years ago. Hope this helps!

[Tapped Out Again]

I suppose the single deck blackjack is no double after splitting, but the other rules are the same? In that case it's still a great game.

 

Anyone else who tried the climbing walls? Is there a route on it that's at least 5.11?

[CAT GIRL]

Yes, you can double after a split. I believe you can only split aces

3 times. If you're a serious player you may have to go to a higher

minumum table. You will see a lot of new players and people just

walking by throwing in a hand. Some people don't mind that. Me,

I like to have the same same people play for a whole shoe. Good or

bad, I like to feel a sense of rhythm. I also never jump into the middle

of a shoe. If there's an open position I figure I can wait another couple

of minutes so I don't disturb their rhythm. Maybe I'm just superstitious.

 

Cat Girl

[comstockfire]

If I remember correctly, the climbs are harder from left to right.

If you have any experiance climbing, none of them offer much challange.

[gambler]

The shoes on the Rhapsody are 6 or 8 decks. There were no single decks.

The market in Texas does not draw the high rollers. I begged for $10 or above minimum table, but it never happened, all tables were $5.00.

[ducklite]

Do they offer instruction times for gaming at any point during the cruise? My 18 year old son is a poker player, but doesn't know Caribbean Stud, and I'm sure this is something he'd be very interested in.

 

Anne

[Krazy4Kruisin']

I suppose the single deck blackjack is no double after splitting, but the other rules are the same? In that case it's still a great game.

 

single deck pays 6-5 for blackjack, not 2-1, as in the multi-deck shoes.

[clingandclatter]

when I was on the Splendour in April they usually had a morning and afternoon session ~2 hours. Port days was "open session" meaning you just show up at any time while it's open and they continually take people in as people leave. You get 2 climbs/day/person. At sea days were "hourly sessions" meaning they register the first ~20-25 people on the hour and then that's it. If you don't make it in during that hour, come back for the next hour. Port days never had a problem with lines, at sea days people were lining up 20-25 minutes before the hour. I got to climb 4 out of 5 days of the cruise.

[Ocean Boy]

The walls on the various ships are not all set up the same and they are changable. On Mariner this past April the wall was set up from fairly easy to quite challenging. They are not necessarily even set up the same way all week. If the staff sees everyone having a problem they may make the easy part even easier so more people can make it. If no one is having a problem with the difficult course they can make it more difficult so that only the better climbers make it to the top.

[MarineMom1]

When we were on the Rhapsody in April, there was 1 single deck blackjack table with a $10 minimum. There was at least 1 other $10 table and a $25 table. The remaining were $5 tables.

[lvcruiser]

On the NOS in 4/03, there was one $5 table and the rest were either $10 or $25. They were all six deck shoes, no single deck, although I believe this is a new addition within the fleet. Some tables have continuous shufflers and some don't. Dealers hit soft 17, you could double on any two cards, including after splits, you could resplit aces up to three times, and blackjack paid 3/2. There was NO table with a table limit max over $200. They didn't want you winning the title to the ship. Penetration was usually around 80-85%. There are nine hands per table and it is very difficult to find a table with players that know what they're doing. Accordingly, if you're a counter, you'll have a tough time because with that many hands out, the count can change drastically from the beginning of a hand to the time the play gets around to you if you're sitting third base. One sitting, I was playing with one other gentleman that actually knew basic strategy and I was up almost $1,600 when the evening show ended. Within 5 minutes, we were bombarded by people who thought splitting 10's was funny and I walked away only $200 up. It doesn't take long.

 

As far as hours of operation are concerned, I'm not sure what thughes means by saying there is usually one blackjack table going at all times. The casino cannot open when in a port that restricts gambling. During sea days, you will find it open around 9 or 10 AM and it will stay open all day and all night, not closing until the wee hours. However, on port days, it will not open until the ship has already sailed away, usually around 5 or 6 PM. When it is closed, there is absolutely nothing going on. You can walk through it to get to the other end of the ship, but the room will have no action, either from machines or tables.

[Tapped Out Again]

Thanks for all that info lvcruiser. 6 decks with those rules is ok with a dealer edge of .65%. If the penetration is as high as 80% than it makes up for it a bit. Btw in counting it doesn't matter if you're at 3rd base with lots of people having already acted as you include the newly drawn cards as well.

[49andholding]

As far as blackjack goes the previous poster was right about the level of play at the $5 tables. I sat at one table and had a group of 3 women sit down and buy in with a twenty. They played stupid just about every hand i.e., not taking a hit with a 14 and the dealer showing a face card. They sure know how to clear a table.

[Krazy4Kruisin']

I can't tell you how mad I get at people who split 10's with the dealer showing a 2 or 3. One guy had the nerve to do it twice within about 10 minutes, even after some of us yelled at him the first time. Or how about not doubling on an 11, with dealer showing 3? Just real idiots playing. On Serenade, I didn't see any tables other than $5, even though I played $25 minimum each hand. Also, if you do play min $25, the pit boss will raise your max. bet to $300. If you bet $50 each hand, they will raise your limit to $500. One other thing to note, if you play $25 consistently, the casino will buy your drinks for you and not have to give your sea pass card. Of course that's not a reason to play $25 if you don't know what you are doing in the first place.

 

What I really liked is that there were 6 BJ tables and all but 1 were non-smoking. You still had the smokers on the 3 card poker table and the caribbean stud table, but I generally tried to get a blackjack table further away from those to avoid the smoke.

[lvcruiser]

Btw in counting it doesn't matter if you're at 3rd base with lots of people having already acted as you include the newly drawn cards as well.

Sorry to disagree, but when you have a +10 true count (not running count) at the beginning of the hand, set out a large bet, catch an 11 for a double down or a pair of nines to split, and watch the count change to a -4 by the time it gets around to you because everyone on the table has taken 10's, it can make a big difference. For this reason as well as the number of uninformed players on the table, I prefer to play with no more than three players at any one time, including myself. I don't mean to sound pretentious, but I play this game for a living from both sides of the table. Oh, and the house edge with the rules I quoted above is more like .85%, not .65%, although if you're playing a decent system, you'll turn that around to something between 1.0% and 2.25% for yourself anyway.

[lvcruiser]

Also' date=' if you do play min $25, the pit boss will raise your max. bet to $300. If you bet $50 each hand, they will raise your limit to $500. One other thing to note, if you play $25 consistently, the casino will buy your drinks for you and not have to give your sea pass card. Of course that's not a reason to play $25 if you don't know what you are doing in the first place.

[/quote']That information is very interesting to me. There must be different rules on different ships, possibly made by the individual casino managers. On NOS, there was no deviation on the table limits at all. I asked the pit boss if he could raise the limit for me since I was playing limit action, and he said sorry, but no.

 

Comped drinks must also be different for each ship because I had to ask three different waiters to get me a soda before I got the first one, and it went directly on my seapass card.

 

Of course, we must keep in mind that my last cruise on NOS was 15 months ago. A lot can change in that time period.

 

Thanks - I can use this information on my next cruise and see what the casino manager has to say.

[Tapped Out Again]

lvcruiser, this really isn't the place for a blackjack debate lol. But the rules on the ships is apparently .54(6-deck) + .14 (DAS) - .21(H17) +.7(RSA) = -.54 or so. -.85 would be horrible. That takes away like 1/2 of the profit of a typical system.

 

As for the swings, from +10 TC to -4 would be a 42 small card swing with 3 decks remaining on a one level count, so your example won't happen. The TC would tend to migrate toward zero but only by -1 from a +10 TC given the absolute extreme of sitting 3rd base with 8 players and 3 decks to go. Besides, without the idiot players covering you you would stick out like a sore thumb.

 

Sorry to bother the rest of you with all this nonsense! ;)

[Krazy4Kruisin']

That information is very interesting to me. There must be different rules on different ships, possibly made by the individual casino managers. On NOS, there was no deviation on the table limits at all. I asked the pit boss if he could raise the limit for me since I was playing limit action, and he said sorry, but no.

 

Comped drinks must also be different for each ship because I had to ask three different waiters to get me a soda before I got the first one, and it went directly on my seapass card.

 

Of course, we must keep in mind that my last cruise on NOS was 15 months ago. A lot can change in that time period.

 

Thanks - I can use this information on my next cruise and see what the casino manager has to say.

 

Ivcruiser: This was on the Serenade last week. The first night I played BJ, the dealer didn't tell me about raising the limits. And I could have used it that night, because the cards were falling my way. But as I was leaving the casino that night (actually the next morning), I saw something about now you can get rated on the ship, like in Vegas, and use that rating to get upgrades or free cruises in the future. You have to bet a minimum of $50 for minimum of 2 hours play every day to be rated. That's double dollar amount, but half playing time amount of Vegas. Anyway, when I saw that, I went back in and talked to one of the pit bosses and he also explained to me about raising table limits. The next night I asked the dealer to do it and he just had to get the pit boss to ok it. That's when the pit boss asked if I would like something to drink. I had barely finished one, when the waitress brought another and said "it's on the casino." So, my advice to you is to just ask again on each ship you sail on. And have a great trip next time, wherever you go.

[lvcruiser]

Krazy4Kruisin - thanks for all the information on the new way RCCL is doing things on their ships and the fact that they are now rating players. I certainly look forward to additional perks if the NOS will rate my play.

 

Tapped Out Again - I have always found it fascinating how different authors of basic strategy and counting system books come up with different ways of calculating advantage or disadvantage for various aspects of the game of blackjack, and for that reason, I will not argue about the subject. I have done my own computer models and compared them to those created by one of the leading authorities on the subject. Believe what you want - I really don't care to pursue this. During the course of a seven day or less cruise with the casino open only part of the time, one would not have sufficient time to realize the difference in actual concrete advantage with a .20% difference in calculations, particularly with the volatile atmosphere the most inexperienced players that can be found on a cruise ship will provide.

 

I will take exception, however, with two things you stated in your most recent post.

 

As for the swings, from +10 TC to -4 would be a 42 small card swing with 3 decks remaining on a one level count, so your example won't happen. The TC would tend to migrate toward zero but only by -1 from a +10 TC given the absolute extreme of sitting 3rd base with 8 players and 3 decks to go.

Going from a +10 to a -4 does not happen with small cards coming out. Quite the opposite, tens are what will drop the count to a minus. When I made that example, a couple of assumptions were made. 1) Large true counts such as a +10 are seldom seen until the end of a shoe, and if the shoe is cut to 80% penetration, there will be only slightly more than one deck left, rendering the true count to be nearly the same as the running count. Accordingly, one will not need to see 42 of any size card in order to achieve a swing this drastic. 2) I based this count example on a level two count system, not a level one, since I have not seen a consistently successful professional player use a level one system for over 10 years. Assuming a true count swing, it will take only seven 10's on a level two system to make this size swing, something I have seen done too many times to remember. Actually, I could have used an even more drastic example because I have seen double deck games change from a +16 to a -4 from the beginning of a hand to the end of play with a couple of multi-splits thrown in. They really aren't that rare if you play 300 nights per year. Successful players almost never play a level one system anymore, at least in Las Vegas, for many reasons, the least of which is because that is the system most floormen and pit managers use to spot counters. On the other hand, there are only a handful of managers and supervisors that are well versed enough in all the systems to be able to spot a level 2 or level 4 counter.

 

Besides, without the idiot players covering you you would stick out like a sore thumb.

If you need idiot players to cover the fact that you're a counter, I strongly suggest you work on your camouflage techniques. Additionally, if you think a proficient floorman hasn't already differentiated between the good players and the idiots on each one of their tables within 15 minutes of you and them taking your seats, you're only kidding yourself and will never fool a good manager. I personally prefer to either play by myself or with no more than two other players. The more players on the table, the greater chance someone will pull a boner. Although in the long run, there is no statistical advantage or disadvantage for the rest of the table when someone makes a blatant error in judgment, if it happens when you've got the big bet set out, it can be a serious setback. I have never been backed off while playing by myself, primarily due to the fact that I have sufficient camouflage. I also have the ability to take a snapshot of the table in my mind and then calculate the count while talking to the floorman standing next to me, but that's something that takes a lot of practice and may be an ability that some or most people do not possess. I also never utilize more than a four to one bet spread to avoid calling undue attention to myself.

Please accept my apology for not realizing that I was lecturing to an amateur. I should have realized that by your screen name but gave you the benefit of the doubt. You are correct about this not being the proper forum for this type of discussion. I read and respond to these boards in order to gain and/or give information about cruising, not card counting. Since I have been bold enough to post my picture with every post and since it is heavily rumored that RCCL reads these boards, I am inclined not to pursue this subject any further.