CELEBRITY - Deliver A Consistent, Excellent Product Please

[ABoatNerd]

Good cruising everyone:

MESSAGE TO CELEBTRITY and SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

CELEBRITY - PLEASE DELIVER, ON EVERY SINGLE CRUISE, A CONSISTENT, EXCELLENT PRODUCT AS PER YOUR MARKETING IMPRESSIONS. If you do not wish/or can not do this, advise patrons of the different ship environment likely to occur (ie Celebrity do not sell something you know will not occur)

I pose this issue to Celebrity CC members for analysis and discussion.
____________________

I have noted a trend on Celebrity and other boards.

Observation - There is an increasing variance in the ship board product/services/experience during different times of year and on different itineraries.

Why Would This Be An Issue? - It is Celebrity's (and every companies) interest to provide a consistent product that is as similar as possible to their marketing message. It makes for satisfied customers

Consequence - This seems to be happening to an increasing % of cruises and it manifests itself in passenger dissatisfaction (some of which shows up on these boards), lower repeat business and fewer referrals

Is This Acceptable - No, at least to me

What Specifically Are Issues Bothering Celebrity (and other lines) Patrons?

* Impact of large groups on cruise experience (see below for example)
* Impact of unsupervised and large number of children
* Informality of dress for formal dining events
* Chair hogging
* Increasing noise (walkie talkies etc)
* Increasing rudeness to wait staff and fellow passengers

What Do I Think Celebrity Is Selling - Reviewing all brochures and advertising (look at the type of paper, the format and content of the messaging - tells you something if you compare to RCL, Carnival, Princess etc) - I expect to have a classy, quieter (than other cruise lines), more formal, less "organizated" by the line and patronized by a higher % percentage of adults (vs other lines like RCL) who are interested in the highest end service and food of the mass market lines and who crave knowledge and enjoy spa treatments

Is This Consistently Delivered - No. But then, it is not possible to do this every single cruise

Where Are The Weak Areas - 1) The summer season and holidays with the increasing % of unsupervised "free range" kids 2) Europe with the large cultural groups and their unique practices and 3) Anytime impact of large groups

In all 3 circumstances (I have experienced all 3), the Celebrity experience was severely compromised by the CONDUCT and NUMBERS of these 3 elements

Bottom Line - Celebrity knows this and they CHOSE to sell something they can not deliver

Hey Celebrity - An increasing number of customers are on to you and to all the other cruise lines

_____________________________________

AN EXAMPLE

Last week a Celebrity CC poster noted the inappropriate and poor experience on their recent Alaska cruise. 900 passengers (over 1/2 of cabins) were taken by a large group. Passengers were DENIED access to late seating for dinner, main show room and numerous public rooms. In addition, generally, the large number of children were out of control and the adults disrespectful of general civil conduct.

AN ASSESSMENT

If a group or large segment of the passenger population conducts themselves so that the general population is impacted - then Celebrity has failed to deliver their product offering. This is increasingly happening in their European cruises with large cultural groups, group bookings in general, unlimited and increasingly unsupervised kids and attendant problems. While these individuals and groups are fine, Celebrity is OBLIGATED to clearly state the rules of conduct on the ship and that it APPLIES TO YOU.
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SUGGESTIONS ON WHAT CELEBRITY CAN DO TO IMPROVE THEIR OFFERINGS

Celebrity has at least 2 choices on delivering their product:

Version A - Celebrity should strive to provide a consistent ship board experience EVERY SINGLE CRUISE with no "exceptions" for summer, holidays etc.

Version B - A above with ADVANCE NOTICE IN THEIR ADVERTISING, that certain times of the year, intineraries, their "normal" experience will NOT be delivered due to X reasons. STATE it upfront and make patrons aware.

It was highly inappropriate that the above cruiser arrived at their ship to find out they are DENIED use of facilities.
_______________________________________

WHAT IS OUR OBLIGATION AS CONSUMERS

As a long time Celebrity patron, started 1992 on the Zenith, I have no intentions of putting up with any garbage like noted above. If it happens, I expect to be financially reimbursed.

Point here - The more consumers start a) demanding consistent product delivery and b) demanding refunds when there is a SIGNIFICANT (minor issues are not enough to justify this action as nothing is perfect and occasionally mishaps occur) variance from the product/service offering, then every service provider will be more inclined to properly 1) define and 2) enforce delivery of their product. I have sent emails and letters to Celebrity and had a letter in Cruise Travel magazine.

Complacency allows Celebrity and all other companies and governments license to continue merrily along their way while taking your $

Hope this has helped and enspired Celebrity CC folks to improve control of their ship board experience

ABoatNerd

[halos]

Wow.
Excellently stated.

[mmp13]

Excellent post!

[thomasale]

applause!!!! great post and well stated I think that someone from the company should address this and make it so!!!The cruise line that embraces this would earn additional committment from their cruisers. In addition we as cruisers need to commit to the line or lines that embrace this philosophy!

[tbelian]

[quote name='ABoatNerd']As a long time Celebrity patron, started 1992 on the Zenith, I have no intentions of putting up with any garbage like noted above. If it happens, I expect to be financially reimbursed.
[/QUOTE]

I commend your hard line position and wish you luck in endeavoring to improve the cruise experience on Celebrity.

[dkjretired]

I'll probably get flamed. Excellent post but not very realistic. If everyone demanded compensation, the cruise line would go under very quickly because they cannot satisfy everybody all of the time. Believe it or not those 900 people who had late dinner have rights too.


Don

[lysolqn]

I think it's unrealistic to expect that a cruiseline can pick and choose its patrons any more than an airline, hotel or restaurant can. It is likewise unrealistic to expect a cruiseline to notify you ahead of time about who your fellow passengers will be, thereby allowing you to cancel your reservation should the passenger mix not be to your liking, i.e., too many families, too many large groups, too many "large cultural groups and their unique practices." Who will run the "reservation police" and make the decision about who can sail and who cannot?

I understand and even sympathize with some of your complaints, on occasion having wished I could boot off some fellow passengers we've encountered on our many cruises. There have been many posts similar to yours that all seem to stem from unreasonable expecations that are all but impossible for any cruiseline to meet. Who your fellow passengers are on any given cruise (their ages, manners or lack thereof, behavior, cultural practices, choice of dress, etc.) is as much a gamble as what kind of weather you will encounter - neither can or should be the obligation of the line. In fact, it might just be to Celebrity's advantage to include some fine print to that effect in the cruise contract, just as they have re weather, missed ports of call, acts of God, etc.

[Danno]

Say who you are and what you do...deliver what you advertise...sell only what you can deliver. In automotive, in Ontario, this is not only good practice...it's the LAW.

Well Nerd....I agree with you 100%, now expect to be drawn and quartered!! I know, I've been through it :eek: !!

"free range kids" :D ...I love it!! Can I use that???

[MileHigh]

I don't think Celebrity realizes how serious. I am signed up for 3 Celebrity cruises, but one experience like the recent Alaska fiasco would mean the end of Celebrity for me.

[Boo's Mom]

Hello Celebrity.

I have recently sailed on the Century, Mercury and the Summit. I saw your standards slip greatly on the Summit.

The cruise I am currently booked on....is not Celebrity.

[hdawson]

I've only had 4 Celebrity cruises (out of 14) and only for the last 4 1/2 yrs. Each has been an excellent vacation experience. I have noted absolutely no, repeat, no decline in service or quality of dining room food. Of course the last three years have been especially difficult ones for any leisure-time business. Frankly, I find buffets to be just that. Buffets. Need a limit of children onboard? Call Princess. Want more luxury? Call Crystal, SEa Dream or Four Seasons. Celebrity is the highend of the mainstream cruise industry and everyone should keep that in mind with their expectations. Pricing has been excellent; equal to Carnival and Princess. Often lower fares than Royal Caribbean and HAL. And cheaper than 10 yrs ago. And still have provided what I've found to be outstanding value. Maybe I'm just not picky enough to whine. Of course these are only my personal experiences and opinion. When the product no longer satisfies me, I will move on.

[tbelian]

[quote name='hdawson']I've only had 4 Celebrity cruises (out of 14) and only for the last 4 1/2 yrs. Each has been an excellent vacation experience. I have noted absolutely no, repeat, no decline in service or quality of dining room food. Of course the last three years have been especially difficult ones for any leisure-time business. Frankly, I find buffets to be just that. Buffets. Need a limit of children onboard? Call Princess. Want more luxury? Call Crystal, SEa Dream or Four Seasons. Celebrity is the highend of the mainstream cruise industry and everyone should keep that in mind with their expectations. Pricing has been excellent; equal to Carnival and Princess. Often lower fares than Royal Caribbean and HAL. And cheaper than 10 yrs ago. And still have provided what I've found to be outstanding value. Maybe I'm just not picky enough to whine. Of course these are only my personal experiences and opinion. When the product no longer satisfies me, I will move on.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you 100%.

[smudge's mom]

I assume it would be very difficult for Celebrity to decide when a group is going to impact "life" on the ship - but the least they and any other cruiseline can do is be totally honest if a passenger has the forethought to call and ask. The computer should be able to tell every customer service rep exactly what is happening with reservations.

Anytime a ship has over half it's pax from one group - that is probably a negative even if one has no reservation about sailing with a particular interest group. It's just that the ship will take on the "flavor" of the large group and will thus impact those not traveling with the group.

So that's all I ask is that the cruiseline keeps their staff up to date on what is happening with reservations and to tell staff to honestly answer any questions regarding pax mix.

It's always Buyer Beware - anytime one is not informed, one takes the chance of unhappy surprises. But if one has the forethought to ask, the cruiseline should not feign stupidity or at the worst, lie.

[ABoatNerd]

From ABoatNerd:

Great responses from the wonderful Celebrity CC folks. As always, it is the Celebrity board users who undertake the most in depth, controversial topics and proceed to analyze them. No other cruise line CC users have the same passion on how to run the cruise business and provide suggestions on improvements. The other boards are bland in comparison. WOW.

First, "Danno", by all means use "free-range" kids. I have seen it used elsewhere. I (and others) were recently run out of an Ontario Provincial park due to "free-range" kids, their no where parents and general loud "riff raff" - See below

Second, "lysolqun" - you are right in a pragmatic way, very hard to control who buys your product and "fine print" is a good suggestion - see below for an organization who is trying to control their offering.....

Third, "dkjretired" - the 900 persons have rights for sure - but I wish venture a really non politically correct concept in these "liberal individualism" times - they also have responsibilities (a very bad word and concept in North America) because of their group. Their rights is not the main issue - is that it took away things from others WITHOUT CELEBRITY TELLING ANYONE ELSE.

________________

The reason I made this post is to remind Celebrity and others that:

a) You can not be all things to all people (a trend I know the lines are coping with 9/11)
b) Eventually you need to settle on a product offering and deliver it consistently and well.
____________________

I am very interested in purchasing the Celebrity experience I defined in my original post. It is harder to ensure I get it due to - "free range" kids, larger and larger group bookings, etc.

For example, I am not interested in cruising with out of control kids AND I resent that people tell me not to book on holidays, summer. How dare they or Celebrity say that. If Celebrity's brochures say X - I expect X all year. Period, no excuses. Otherwise, simply says that during these periods YYYYYY, the experience will be like this. Disclosure, honesty, integrity.

______________________

Trying to control the CONDUCT of your passengers/guests is becoming a big issue everywhere. It CAN be done. In large parks in the Ontario park system, you must sign a separate form when you check in. It states and highlights the basic rules of CONDUCT. Like "your voices/radios can not be heard off your site, no alcohol off your site......

Every patron is told up front in clear terms. Park staff then do not hesitate to give warning and will remove you from the park. Why? The park wants to deliver a quiet camping experience.

_______________________

So, the challenge for Celebrity is to create a win/win. Tell up front what your cruise experience will be, advise each guest of their accountabilities and ensure they know the consequences and then do it.

It is not up to Celebrity to parent the kids that arrive each week - if the parent fails, off the ship like RCL. This only works if you have made it clear in advance. A large group causes noise or has members cut in line - members off the ship.

_________________________

The general decorum of the population is declining and it is in evidence everywhere. So I have great empathy for companies who are trying to survive in the face of horrible customers.

What do you all think

ABoatNerd

[MortgageChick]

My husband and I have been cruising as a couple since 1999. WE will experience our 12th cruise in November(not on X) We have heard so many wonderful things about Celebrity that we have booked an 11 night cruise for February 2005 and a 14 night cruise in Sept 2005.

I know that the shipboard experience can vary between ships in the same line. Our experience on the Rotterdam was far superior to the Oosterdam and our Transatlantic Crossing on the Carnival Legend via Iceland was very classy,compared to our 10 night Paradise cruise through the Caribbean. Consistency is tricky as their are so many variables.

We enjoy high quailty food and service and the attention to detail that I have heard about on X, and certainly hope they can deliver. We do not cruise when school is out as it definitely impacts our enjoyment . I also do not feel that small infants have a place on a cruise. Flame me if you wish.

As for large numbers of other cultural groups, we experienced that on Costa. I felt that neither the Italian crew or Italian guests, would have spit on me even if I had been on fire. The superior attitude and cutting into line truly showed their lack of etiquette and social skills. This did not happen in Europe, but in the Caribbean.

We have become fans of HAL in the last 12 months , but would like to have 2 "favorite" cruise lines. I am hoping that one will be X. as we are running out of options.

[sueinphilly]

Celebrity isn't going to say no to a large group booking (like the one on that Alaska cruise). OTOH, if the group wasn't given special (preferential?) treatment (food, private lounges,unruly children ignored) and was just assimilated into the masses of the rest of the passengers then no one would notice them and complain.

If they want the special foods and private lounges and a free for all, let them charter a boat.

these guys did and had a great time!
[color=#008000][url="http://www.jambase.com/headsup.asp?storyID=4530"]www.[b]jam[/b]base.com/headsup.asp?storyID=4530[/url] [/color]
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[sdcruiser]

No cruise line can guarantee what it advertises nor can they possibly satisfy everyone's personal satisfaction of a cruise experience.

I've been on 10 cruises, all different lines, and each has their own strengths and weaknesses. Selecting out Celebrity for your analysis is fine. Just remember though, not every sailing on every ship can be 100% alike, no matter how hard they or any other cruise line tries, IMHO.

SDCruiser

[Host Anne]

Adding some comments.

I haven't had time recently to do that much so it's nice to have a chance to get back into the Celebrity board.

We run a small business that manages conventions & trade shows. We have rules and regulations just like the cruise ships. We publish what someone will get for their money when the register to attend one of our events or exhibit5 in one of our events and we go above and beyond to make sure that we are delivering what we've promised. I hate unhappy or dissatified customers. I've been doing this long enough to know that you can't make everyone happy (our biggest event has about 6,000 attendees) but no one can ever accuse us of not following our rules and regulations and making them stick.

I think for the most part, that's what Celebrity cruisers (like us) really want. Don't have rules and regulations if you aren't going to enforce them. Don't say you are one thing but can't deliver those things. Treat all passengers fairly and allow your crew on one ship to turn a blind eye because there is a "group" on board. There are always going to be some folks that create problems. Deal with them. Don't tell your loyal passengers who really want what you say you are going to offer that you can't enforce your rules (sorry for that poorly worded sentence).

I wish I had better answers. We have had wonderful cruise experiences (on Celebrity and other lines). Some have been better than others, none have been a nightmare like some I've read on the boards. I certainly wouldn't pay for something and end up on a ship that might be half unaccessible throughout the cruise.

For me, the answer is respect. For yourself, for other passengers, for crew, for the ship itself. I think it would solve a lot. Don't know how we've lost it; don't know how to get it back. I hope that all of us is a start.

OK, I'm off my soapbox. I wish you many happy days on board!

~Host Anne

[gbolton]

[quote name='MileHigh']I don't think Celebrity realizes how serious. I am signed up for 3 Celebrity cruises, but one experience like the recent Alaska fiasco would mean the end of Celebrity for me.[/QUOTE]
What happened with your "Alaska fiasco"? We just did the Infinity 07/04 and although I was disappointed that they tendered two of the three ports - Ketchikan was totally unexpected- we had a wonderful cruise.

[drk]

Great post!! We just got off the Infinity 7/11 on an "escape" cruise. That is, no children. Somehow we had 2 children (under 10 years old) on board. They in fact were sitting in our section at dinner...late seating no less!! The asst. MD tried to keep them under control but only with some success. My email to Celebrity on this (to captains club) is over a week old with no reply. I did in fact ask for some compensation since this was supposed to be NO CHILDREN. We left ours at home.

[dkjretired]

[quote name='drk']Great post!! We just got off the Infinity 7/11 on an "escape" cruise. That is, no children. Somehow we had 2 children (under 10 years old) on board. They in fact were sitting in our section at dinner...late seating no less!! The asst. MD tried to keep them under control but only with some success. My email to Celebrity on this (to captains club) is over a week old with no reply. I did in fact ask for some compensation since this was supposed to be NO CHILDREN. We left ours at home.[/QUOTE]


I certainly hope your post was a joke, asking for compensation because two children were on board.

Problem with aboatnerd's analysis about asking for compensation for substantive problems and not minor ones is who defines minor. Once again, can we deal with reality here.

Don

[cruising with marti]

I agree with Don compensation for what? I was on a cruise recently where the the very old people ( note the very old, not just old like me):D were very slow in getting off the elevators, forcing me too use the stairs!!!! I WANT COMPENSATION!!!:D


Give me a break

Phil

[gbolton]

[quote name='drk']Great post!! We just got off the Infinity 7/11 on an "escape" cruise. That is, no children. Somehow we had 2 children (under 10 years old) on board. They in fact were sitting in our section at dinner...late seating no less!! The asst. MD tried to keep them under control but only with some success. My email to Celebrity on this (to captains club) is over a week old with no reply. I did in fact ask for some compensation since this was supposed to be NO CHILDREN. We left ours at home.[/QUOTE]
I have to agree with you. We were on the same cruise. I think the other responses were missing the point. I love children, have grandkids who are adorable, but this cruise was advertised as adults 21 and older, and that is why we picked it in July. Although we wouldn't have asked for compensation, (I never saw the kids again after the third day) my husband did ask guest services how they got on and they said it was as much as a surprise for them as it was for us. They never should have got as far as the ship. Somehow they slipped through the cracks. We actually felt quite sorry for the children as they were no children's programs being run as it was an all adult cruise. It was very unfortunate.

[themommy]

I think that
1) the cruise lines should set out their stall and market their product for the
audience it is hoping to attract. This would help the purchaser to choose
the holiday style which most suits them.
2) Rules on board should be enforced at all times no matter how difficult this
can be on occasion.
3) Purchasers should respectfully consider the rules and comply. I have previously said that choosing a cruise line is like a tick list. You may only achieve 8 out of 10 but it will be a great cruise and it doesn't mean that the 2 points that didn't suit you give you the right to exercise your freedom of choice and deliberately flaunt the rule in the face of others.

4) Remember that the key to enforcing all of the above is defining what is "reasonable" when dealing with the complaint.

The cruise line is in business to make money and they do have to ensure that they sail full so in the main they will attract their chosen market but they do have to attract others as well in order to survive. This is reasonable. They reserve the right to allow group bookings but it is reasonable to expect them to anticipate some of the problems that could be encountered and react accordingly.

Purchasers expect rules to be enforced but the gentleman who wears informal dress instead of formal is reasonable, he that wears casual in a formal area is not reasonable.

Compensation
This of course should be expected where it is reasonably due. Not calling at certain ports due to weather is not a reason for compensation.
It is all about reasonable.

Who dictates what is reasonable ? - the courts of course, and the cruise line should set the rules in accordance with reason, react to complaints in the same manner and we should all be mindful of the needs of others.

[themommy]

Children

With regard to children on cruises.
This is a very difficult subject as it is so very personal and any comments made can so easily be misunderstood.

We have 2 grown up children and 4 young permanent foster children. I work full time and my husband works from home. We have discovered cruising only 3 years ago. We take all our children away in the summer for a family holiday where we can all spend quality time together.

The cruise is a treat for the 2 of us. We appreciate the break just for us so the last thing we want is for our cruise to be spoiled by unruly children.
If I had agreed with Danno about children I would have been castigated as a uncaring Mother which is far from the truth.

If I had booked a no children cruise and found some on board I would have been very unhappy indeed - and NOT because I don't like children, this couldn't be further from the truth.