Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Host Sharon]

Thanks Conte. Pictures would be good too as well as a name so we can attribute your memories. It is very rare for Americans, or anyone other than British in fact, to sail on P&O ships so that probably accounts for their attitude !!

 

If you would like to email me you can use this address

spoole178@btinternet.com

 

Thanks.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Host Sharon

[MMDown Under]

A complete digression: Have you or anyone on our thread visited the Orkney Islands, north of Scotland? Yes - you lurkers, too! I'm surprised at how much I remember of the Pictish ruins, Scapa Flow, Stones of Stenness, Ring of Brognar, and other sites. These places stick in my memory as a stand-out port stop but I never hear anyone in the States talking about them. Strangely enough, there are southern Orkney Islands nearby to the mainland of Antarctica.

 

Ruby

 

We were greeted to the Orkney Islands in mid summer with freezing cold winds, which seemed to go right through us. However, the hardy local, we shared a cab with, said that there was no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing. Still makes me smile, as us Aussies were certainly inappropriate dressed for an Orkney Island summer.

 

Loved the place, the people, the music, the dancing, and the birds, in particular.

[Saga Ruby]

Before the refurbishment the ship had just one specialty restaurant, the Ocean Liners Restaurant. Its lobby featured First Class dishware and menus from Ile de France and other transatlantic liners.

 

I've attached a photograph of me at the Ice Bar with one of my dining room table companions. You can see the white surface. It's not exactly all ice, but a thin layer of frost on top of ice surface. That's my now-famous blue martini there!Donald.

 

I'm curious about the hotel part of the Connie. When I was onboard, many times the food arrived in the MDR a bit cool. Is it true that the waiters have to take an escalator down to another deck to stand in line to get their orders filled, then rush back to the tables? I also enjoyed so much the Ocean Liners restaurant. Didn't Ile de France become SS Norway, thereby opening quite a large door for what was in those days a megaship in the Caribbean?

 

By the bye, that photo of you in the Ice Bar was quite smashing - it looks like a colour-coordinated advert for a travel magazine.

 

. . . I will say that the Britannia Dining Room is really a large catering hall. The quality of the ingredients was good and I was always able to find something on the menu which was enjoyable.

 

. . . but the cheese trolley is gone now and one had to accept the selection which had been previously plated by the kitchen.

 

I thought cheese trolleys were standard on many cruise lines. Do you think the inexperienced staff was unable to handle this culinary detail or were cheese selections pre-plated for faster service out of the kitchen?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Ruby, it is true about the waiters on the top level of the dining room having to go down one deck by escalator to get the food, and then up again by another escalator to deliver it. I have seen these escalators while walking past open pantry doors.

 

Along with the banning of cheese trolleys in the dining room are the after-dinner liqueur trolleys. The maitre d' would stand beside the table and put on a big show of pouring flaming contents a couple of feet into a glass. It may be that insurers have decided that the spectacle was simply a big fire hazard to either the ship or passenger.

 

I had not noticed until now that my blue martini almost matched the colour of my companion's dress. The picture indeed appears to be colour-coordinated.

 

Donald.

[Conte Di Savoia]

I thought cheese trolleys were standard on many cruise lines. Do you think the inexperienced staff was unable to handle this culinary detail or were cheese selections pre-plated for faster service out of the kitchen?

 

Ruby

The latter. This is part of the catering hall atmosphere in the dining room. Individualized service takes too much time and might even require additional staff to pull off. I was also impressed that the cabin stewards seemed to service many more cabins than in the past. Our steward was busy with "morning" cleaning until well into the afternoon.

 

France, the ship on which your parents had a beautiful suite, is the ship which became Norway. Ile De France was one of the most beautiful liners from the Art Deco period and sailed with Normandie before WWII and with Liberte after the war. She was withdrawn and sold for scrap in 1959. She was also the ship which rescued passengers and crew from the sinking Andrea Doria in July, 1956.

 

Here is a picture of the panels from Ile De France mounted in the Ocean Liners Restaurant aboard Celebrity Constellation.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Conte Di Savoia

[Saga Ruby]

Cunard attracts an international clientele who enjoy the elegant atmosphere even though that atmosphere is a caricature of what it once was.

 

When you are on Silver Cloud, do cheese trolleys and tableside service exist or are those days gone forever? Your astute comment about the cabin steward being busy until afternoon is telling. The hotel staff works so hard every day for 6-7 months of their contracts that their usual break is in the afternoon. This opportunity serves as time for napping and recharging their batteries. Sounds like Cunard and most mass-market cruise lines are pushing their staff quite hard or the inexperience of the QV staff was showing.

 

Thanks for the photo of the Ocean Liner panels. The older I get, the more I appreciate the overt elegance and sophistication of Ye Olde Dayz.

 

Ruby

[Host Sharon]

I think you should try Queen Mary 2 Ruby, and even better you could sail from the US so no long haul flights. Even though she is big, she seems to me to be one last bastion of elegance and sophistication in the true sense of the word.

[Saga Ruby]

I think you should try Queen Mary 2 Ruby, and even better you could sail from the US so no long haul flights. Even though she is big, she seems to me to be one last bastion of elegance and sophistication in the true sense of the word.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Several people have mentioned that I might like the ship but I am so anti-megaship that even the Queens are too large for me. If I get settled in a deck chair and realize that I've forgotten my Kindle, I would have to hike back to my cabin. The Connie put paid on my large-ship curiosity. A lovely ship but just too big for my tastes. The Queens are a reality that I will have missed in a lifetime of cruises.

 

Where and when do you go to the Baltics?

 

Ruby

[Host Sharon]

Thanks for the suggestion. Several people have mentioned that I might like the ship but I am so anti-megaship that even the Queens are too large for me. If I get settled in a deck chair and realize that I've forgotten my Kindle, I would have to hike back to my cabin. The Connie put paid on my large-ship curiosity. A lovely ship but just too big for my tastes. The Queens are a reality that I will have missed in a lifetime of cruises.

 

Where and when do you go to the Baltics?

 

Ruby

 

Six weeks and counting! It is an interesting itinerary with some unusual ports in among the usual - Brunsbuttel, through the Kiel Canal, three days in St Petersburg, Helsinki, Copenhagen, Aalborg, Talinn and Samaeera (sp?) - an Estonian Island.

 

I'm guessing it will still be cold, but as long as it's not too wet I don't mind.

 

Just booked three for next year today - the new Adonia to the Italian Riviera (a nice small ship Ruby), Oriana to the Caribbean round trip from the UK and a 4 night New Year's Eve Party Cruise with friends. Should keep me going!

[Saga Ruby]

Six weeks and counting! It is an interesting itinerary with some unusual ports in among the usual - Brunsbuttel, through the Kiel Canal, three days in St Petersburg, Helsinki, Copenhagen, Aalborg, Talinn and Samaeera (sp?) - an Estonian Island. Just booked three for next year today - the new Adonia to the Italian Riviera (a nice small ship Ruby), Oriana to the Caribbean round trip from the UK and a 4 night New Year's Eve Party Cruise with friends. Should keep me going!

 

That r/t from UK to the Caribbean and back - how long is the cruise? Will you be sailing from cold to warm? And I assume the Oriana cruise is a form of homework assignment? I'll have to look up Adonia. That attached map of your Baltics itinerary was quite illuminating. Sounds like you're going to have lots o' fun on the high seas this year and next.

 

In talking about history of mature (ahem!) ships, I reached back into my own maritime history. We have talked about streamers from pier to ship, but I'm now remembering stewards walking around the promenade decks with xylophones, ringing out final call. They later used the same xylophones to announce dinner being served.

 

Out on the high seas, men would sign up for skeet shooting off the stern. Only a few shooters signed up but it was intriguing to be on a higher deck, watching the skeet steward load and reload the guns as he alternated with pulling the skeet shooter (?).

 

I doubt that all those suites facing the stern on megabarges would appreciate someone shooting skeet off their cabin verandah?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Ruby, I believe that skeet shooting has gone the way of xylophones and the dodo bird. I did some skeet shooting on Rotterdam in 1989, but haven't seen any afterwards. I believe that that sport was discontinued due to polluting the ocean (marine life possibly swallowing the remnants of the skeets).

 

Donald

[Saga Ruby]

I believe that that sport was discontinued due to polluting the ocean (marine life possibly swallowing the remnants of the skeets). Donald

 

I understand what you're saying about polluting ocean water but do the megabarge pax hit golf balls into the sea? To me, that was much more harmful than clay bits and pieces of skeet. Or are golf balls only hit into nets nowadays?

 

O' course, marine pollution reminds me of one memorable scene. In 1979, onboard Stella Solaris, I was up on a high deck enjoying the view from a whopping 8 stories high, when I noticed bags of ship's trash bobbing in our wake. We could see the crew members on the lowest deck, heaving the fully-loaded bags into the water from our cargo bay. [heavy sigh]

 

Ruby

[Host Sharon]

That r/t from UK to the Caribbean and back - how long is the cruise? Will you be sailing from cold to warm? And I assume the Oriana cruise is a form of homework assignment? I'll have to look up Adonia. That attached map of your Baltics itinerary was quite illuminating. Sounds like you're going to have lots o' fun on the high seas this year and next.

 

In talking about history of mature (ahem!) ships, I reached back into my own maritime history. We have talked about streamers from pier to ship, but I'm now remembering stewards walking around the promenade decks with xylophones, ringing out final call. They later used the same xylophones to announce dinner being served.

 

Out on the high seas, men would sign up for skeet shooting off the stern. Only a few shooters signed up but it was intriguing to be on a higher deck, watching the skeet steward load and reload the guns as he alternated with pulling the skeet shooter (?).

 

I doubt that all those suites facing the stern on megabarges would appreciate someone shooting skeet off their cabin verandah?

 

Ruby

 

It is 22 nights Ruby, but too late for homework - hopefully book signing though :) And hopefully warm to warmer - late September next year. Adonia will be the "replacement" small ship for P&o after Artemis goes next month. She is currently sailing as Royal Princess and was Minerva 2 I believe.

 

Ahhh - the days of skeet shooting. I remember that on Vistafjord, and the deck stewards tucking you up on the steamer chairs in warm blankets, and bouillon served on deck... I don't remember xylophones though. There was a gong on QE2 outside the Caronia Restaurant and we still had streamers in 2004.....happy days.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Host Sharon

[Saga Ruby]

Adonia will be the "replacement" small ship for P&o after Artemis goes next month. She is currently sailing as Royal Princess and was Minerva 2 I believe.

 

I just had a giggle of a thought. Adonia - a female Adonis?

 

Ruby

[Saga Ruby]

I was watching a TV documentary about passenger life onboard Oasis OTS. There is an entire deck devoted to a "mall" experience, much of which is shopping and eateries.

 

Does one pay for a cup of coffee or sandwich as they enjoy their shipboard experience? Are these shops and cafes franchised? Are the passengers informed that it is "pay as you go" on the boardwalk deck?

 

I have recently learned that Silversea, on each of its ships, has an onboard specialty restaurant named "Le Champagne." The meals run about $400 for a couple who can enjoy unlimited wine and spirits. It seems a bit pricey.

 

I am gobsmacked by these megaships. They have little to do with sailing on the high seas. It is obvious the cruise-line industry turned a corner into being a profitable industry by offering new, exciting resort-type experiences for a much cheaper price than on land. Meanwhile pax happily run up large onboard accounts, an obvious profit center for the mass market cruise lines. In watching the documentary, I saw a cabin of 100 sq. ft. which would be beyond claustrophobic for this person but, if one is never in the cabin except to sleep, it would not be a problem.

 

The world of cruising has changed immensely and I congratulate the industry on finding a way to continue and to profit. As a happy dinosaur from Ye Olde Days, I choose not to join in their fun.

 

A poster on Silversea was complaining that there were empty suites on her ship yet she was not allowed a complimentary upgrade. I wonder if she goes to hotels to find empty rooms then asks for a free one?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Sharon, yesterday I received my copy of Sea Lines and David Trevor-Jones' review of your book Artemis was thumbs-up. Way to go! :)

 

Donald.

[MMDown Under]

I was watching a TV documentary about passenger life onboard Oasis OTS. There is an entire deck devoted to a "mall" experience, much of which is shopping and eateries.

 

Does one pay for a cup of coffee or sandwich as they enjoy their shipboard experience? Are these shops and cafes franchised? Are the passengers informed that it is "pay as you go" on the boardwalk deck?

 

I have recently learned that Silversea, on each of its ships, has an onboard specialty restaurant named "Le Champagne." The meals run about $400 for a couple who can enjoy unlimited wine and spirits. It seems a bit pricey.

 

I am gobsmacked by these megaships. They have little to do with sailing on the high seas. It is obvious the cruise-line industry turned a corner into being a profitable industry by offering new, exciting resort-type experiences for a much cheaper price than on land. Meanwhile pax happily run up large onboard accounts, an obvious profit center for the mass market cruise lines. In watching the documentary, I saw a cabin of 100 sq. ft. which would be beyond claustrophobic for this person but, if one is never in the cabin except to sleep, it would not be a problem.

 

The world of cruising has changed immensely and I congratulate the industry on finding a way to continue and to profit. As a happy dinosaur from Ye Olde Days, I choose not to join in their fun.

 

A poster on Silversea was complaining that there were empty suites on her ship yet she was not allowed a complimentary upgrade. I wonder if she goes to hotels to find empty rooms then asks for a free one?

 

Ruby

 

Ruby - Like you, those mega ships don't appeal to me at all. Whilst the ships keep getting bigger, the times in port seem to be getting shorter.

 

Researching a cruise recently, I was surprised to discover that a full day was counted as before and up to 10.00 am arrival and departure on or after 3.00 pm. A full day - 5 hours, not counting time taken to get off the ship and back on in time for sailaway!

 

With the increasing cost of fuel and cruisers' increasing frustration with the short times in port, I can see a growing niche market in overnight stays in port, or at least longer days.

 

There was an interesting discussion on the HAL board about their compulsory $60pppd hold, with their statement that cruisers could be refused boarding, if they didn't agree to the hold/cash deposit. They obviously think cruisers will spend that amount or more per day.

 

Re free upgrading in hotel rooms, I was reminded of an amusing experience my friend had in Paris. She had arranged a free days' independent travel in Paris, with a female friend, between two first class organised tours. She was shocked to be offered a really tiny room, with two single beds pushed together, and little room to even walk around the beds. She went back to Reception to request a room with two single beds further apart, as they were only friends. Second room offered was not much better, with beds close together, so back to reception to mine out, whilst they were friends, they were not that close friends. Third room offered, on the top floor, was a huge room, beyond their wildest dreams, with views across Paris rooftops. So it can pay to ask for an upgrade in hotel rooms.

Edited April 12, 2011 by MMDown Under

[Saga Ruby]

Ruby - Like you, those mega ships don't appeal to me at all. Whilst the ships keep getting bigger, the times in port seem to be getting shorter.

 

Researching a cruise recently, I was surprised to discover that a full day was counted as before and up to 10.00 am arrival and departure on or after 3.00 pm. A full day - 5 hours, not counting time taken to get off the ship and back on in time for sailaway!

 

With the increasing cost of fuel and cruisers' increasing frustration with the short times in port, I can see a growing niche market in overnight stays in port, or at least longer days.

 

There was an interesting discussion on the HAL board about their compulsory $60pppd hold, with their statement that cruisers could be refused boarding, if they didn't agree to the hold/cash deposit. They obviously think cruisers will spend that amount or more per day.

 

Re free upgrading in hotel rooms, I was reminded of an amusing experience my friend had in Paris. She had arranged a free days' independent travel in Paris, with a female friend, between two first class organised tours. She was shocked to be offered a really tiny room, with two single beds pushed together, and little room to even walk around the beds. She went back to Reception to request a room with two single beds further apart, as they were only friends. Second room offered was not much better, with beds close together, so back to reception to mine out, whilst they were friends, they were not that close friends. Third room offered, on the top floor, was a huge room, beyond their wildest dreams, with views across Paris rooftops. So it can pay to ask for an upgrade in hotel rooms.

 

These comments are revelatory to me. I didn't know about the new definition of a "day" in port on the mass-market lines. But I didn't follow the HAL "compulsory hold" comment. Does HAL put an automatic cash charge on the shipboard account? Why?

 

On mass-market lines, is coffee is free in all parts of the ship or only in certain places like the MDR? Is there a charge for coffee from a bar?

 

I liked your story about the ultimate upgrade in Paris. What a hoot!

 

Ruby

[MMDown Under]

But I didn't follow the HAL "compulsory hold" comment. Does HAL put an automatic cash charge on the shipboard account? Why?

 

Ruby

 

Yes. It is on their website, under credit card use.

 

Yes, a hold of $60US pppd for up to 25 days, then $30 pppd. If you don't use a credit card, they want cash of that amount up front.

 

"Failure to do so may forfeit your right to board." Can you imagine!

[Saga Ruby]

Yes. It is on their website, under credit card use. Yes, a hold of $60US pppd for up to 25 days, then $30 pppd. If you don't use a credit card, they want cash of that amount up front. "Failure to do so may forfeit your right to board." Can you imagine!

 

So HAL will charge an onboard pax around $1,500 for 24 days to offset shipboard charges they may accrue? I heard nothing about this while onboard Prinsendam in 2009 but, then again, perhaps I was unaware.

 

This game of "Hold 'em" indicates that some HAL pax have stiffed the cruise line by running up profound onboard accounts then been unable to pay same.

 

Is this policy standard procedure onboard other cruise lines? Has this concept been in place for awhile or is it The New Thing? Are the cruise lines checking credit-card limits when onboard passengers run up impressive charges on their account? And I wonder what percentage of pax on ships are on a cash basis for their cruise? Is it common?

 

I'm sure many of us are weary of newer, tighter restrictions onboard ships and on land, but I also recognize that many people think it is a game to stick it to The Man and take great joy in doing so. [heavy sigh]

 

Ruby

[MMDown Under]

So HAL will charge an onboard pax around $1,500 for 24 days to offset shipboard charges they may accrue? I heard nothing about this while onboard Prinsendam in 2009 but, then again, perhaps I was unaware.

 

This game of "Hold 'em" indicates that some HAL pax have stiffed the cruise line by running up profound onboard accounts then been unable to pay same.

 

Is this policy standard procedure onboard other cruise lines? Has this concept been in place for awhile or is it The New Thing? Are the cruise lines checking credit-card limits when onboard passengers run up impressive charges on their account? And I wonder what percentage of pax on ships are on a cash basis for their cruise? Is it common?

 

I'm sure many of us are weary of newer, tighter restrictions onboard ships and on land, but I also recognize that many people think it is a game to stick it to The Man and take great joy in doing so. [heavy sigh]

 

Ruby

 

Yes $1440 for 24 days! $2880 for 2 people! It is the amount of the hold, which upsets me, as well as "Failure to do so may forfeit your right to board" statement. MSC only required a small amount on my last 2 cruises.

 

It is a hold, Ruby, not a charge, but the effect is the same, if you want to use the credit card in ports of call, or on land travel immediately after the cruise.

 

I prepay most of my travels and travel with a credit card with a small limit ($4,000), in case of fraud. As I bookend my cruises with extensive land travel, I don't want any hold on my credit card at the end of a cruise.

 

I agree that it was possibly instigated for the few who do the wrong thing, in a difficult economy.

[MMDown Under]

Did you see Cruise Critic news? -

 

Just months after the announcement that Saga Cruises, the over-50s specialist, has acquired a new ship, swelling its fleet to three vessels, it appears that growth may be fleeting. According to Saga's Web site, a "Farewell Cruise" for the 446-passenger, 18,591-ton Saga Pearl II is advertised. That 14-day voyage on Saga Pearl II, which only debuted in 2010 after a £14 million investment in refitting, will take place 22 April, 2012.

 

Saga Pearl II, built in 1981 as Astoria, has since last year offered cruises that reflect Saga's trademark style and ambience with traditions such as afternoon tea, ballroom dancing and cabaret-style entertainment. The refurbishment effort included the addition of new balcony cabins, show lounge upgrades, a spa and pool makeover, and the creation of a library and a new restaurant. Unusually, 25 percent of its cabins are aimed at solo travellers -- a big plus for Saga aficionados.

[Saga Ruby]

Just months after the announcement that Saga Cruises, the over-50s specialist, has acquired a new ship, swelling its fleet to three vessels, it appears that growth may be fleeting. According to Saga's Web site, a "Farewell Cruise" for the 446-passenger, 18,591-ton Saga Pearl II is advertised. That 14-day voyage on Saga Pearl II, which only debuted in 2010 after a £14 million investment in refitting, will take place 22 April, 2012.

 

So many questions. Did they get some kind of lucrative offer for the ship. I doubt it? Did Saga Insurance, the mother corporate arm of Saga Holidays and Saga Cruises, suffer a major economic hit? Was a vital problem with Astoria discovered after all that refurbishing? Patience and time will tell, but thanks for pointing out this shocking development.

 

Donald - I like the way your business mind works. Do you have any thoughts - with zero facts available - regarding this astounding turn of events?

 

Digression - so no one pays for coffee onboard any cruise ships?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

The current edition of Sea Lines reported that Oceania's Insignia will be chartered to Hapag-Lloyd for two years and renamed Columbus 2. With Saga also getting rid of Saga Pearl II, I wonder if some of the premium cruise lines are feeling the economic pinch, in that those who usually cruise on premium lines are no longer booking as often as they used to?

 

Coffee is complimentary on cruise ships. It's the fancy stuff - cappuccino, lattes, espressos - that have prices attached.

 

Donald.

[Galaxy]

Saga Pearl II will be renamed to Quest for Adventure late spring 2012 :)