Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Kapricorn]

It would, indeed, be a smack in the nose in the "one side" rule. As though smoke doesn't drift everywhere.

 

I remember that during the 1980s when airlines began having smoking and non-smoking sections on their aircraft, I booked a non-smoking seat. Lo and behold, when I sat down I discovered that I was in the first row of the non-smoking section, directly behind the last seat of the smoking section. There was no partition whatsoever. I spent the flight fuming and choking on cigarette smoke which constantly wafted into our section.

 

Before that, I was on a San Francisco-Vancouver flight which had stopped in Portland to pick up passengers from a connecting Las Vegas flight. Once the 727 took off, practically all of these gamblers whipped out their cigarettes and within minutes the whole cabin was smokier than a campfire.

 

Donald.

[Conte Di Savoia]

Congratulations on your golden anniversary of cruising. What a wealth of knowledge on ships you must have. Do you have a favourite ship, or is that too difficult?

I wonder if your parents had any idea of just what they were giving you and your brother, with your first cruise.

We have passed on the priceless gift of travel to our children.

 

It is very difficult to select a favorite ship but certainly Leonardo Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Raffaello and France all fall into that category of favorites and for reasons which are similar. Each was a "ship of state", the embodiment of the art and culture of the nation which created them. No matter where in the world passengers boarded these vessels, they were immediately transported to the ship's country of origin. That is a concept which is now gone from passenger shipping. Each had a museum like quality with artwork created by major national artists specifically for the the vessel. Nowadays there are paintings and such mounted to walls, but aboard these ships the art was the entire wall, the balustrades of the stairways and even the ceilings. There was also the sense that the passenger was a member of a private club and was treated as such. Most lines today view their clientele as sales opportunities, hawking their wares at every opportunity. Once the gangplank is pulled up the sales pitches begin.

 

Yes, I do think my parents knew exactly what they were doing for us and appreciated that we appreciated the experiences. They first made sure that we had traveled extensively in the US before undertaking trips abroad....my father drove us all cross country from New York to California and back at a time when neither my brother or I had driver's licenses (mom never did learn to drive). But after those sojourns were completed it was off to Europe, traveling both ways by ship (mom refused to fly) with four weeks traveling around the continent. Such a long time away is almost unimaginable these days. Gosh, we were really lucky!

[Conte Di Savoia]

Congratulations, Conte, on the Golden Anniversary of your first ocean voyage! Mine will be on December 27, 2013, fifty years after boarding American Export Line's Atlantic in Manhattan with my mother on a cruise to Nassau.

 

My mother and I also traveled to Manhattan in February or March 1961 to see Uncle Frank off to Italy on Leonardo da Vinci. We inspected the Second Class section of the liner, which for some reason Uncle Frank chose instead of First Class. Hey, Conte, maybe I was aboard that ship before you did? :D

Donald.

 

Ah, the jaunty little Atlantic! I never did sail on her but I know she had a long career. We did do a Mediterranean cruise out of New York aboard AE's Constitution which was also a lovely ship in her day.

 

Indeed, Donald, you did get aboard Leonardo Da Vinci before me! Was she the first liner you had ever visited? I remember her Cabin (2nd) Class ballroom (The Paintings Lounge) very well and a beautiful example of a public space designed around the art on the walls, very typical of the time.

I remember that you posted a picture of your Uncle Frank in his deck chair while on that voyage.

[Saga Ruby]

Thank you - yes I am enjoying it, but the trouble is I can hardly remember who and what is where on each ship. Add to that a couple of other ship visits this week .......Sat - Artania (Artemis as was), Thursday-Prinsendam, Friday- Oriana, Sunday- Aurora ......Helppppppp.

 

Still, I am looking forward to seeing my first HAL ship. She is calling at Bristol as part of a Round Britain cruise so a group have been invited for a looksee and lunch. Aside from her, all the others are at Southampton, which is fast becoming a second home.

 

Which Thursday are you visiting Prinsendam? I may have missed my moment but was curious about the stern of Promenade Deck which used to have deckchairs under shade; it is my understanding that that open space has been turned into more cabins. That location was my favourite place on the ship - one walked thru the casino, thru a lounge, then out onto the covered deck. I would pretend to read my Kindle while enjoying an unbeatable view of Napoli, Sevastopol, and other great locales.

 

Sympathy from my side of the street about being onboard so many ships in short order. You must feel like you're bumping into walls by now. Do you have an assigned parking space in Soton?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Indeed, Donald, you did get aboard Leonardo Da Vinci before me! Was she the first liner you had ever visited? I remember her Cabin (2nd) Class ballroom (The Paintings Lounge) very well and a beautiful example of a public space designed around the art on the walls, very typical of the time.

I remember that you posted a picture of your Uncle Frank in his deck chair while on that voyage.

 

Yes, it was my first visit to a liner. About 150 pages ago here I had posted a picture of Uncle Frank in his deck chair aboard Leonardo da Vinci enroute to Italy. Here it is again:

 

 

After his return later that year, he also sent us two photographs taken on embarkation day in New York City. Here I am standing between him and my mother, with the Manhattan skyline in the background.

 

 

The third picture shows him and his partner, Charles, in front of the Second Class swimming pool. Charles had come up from Philadelphia to see him off.

 

 

Last February I visited Charles in Fort Lauderdale after my Caribbean cruise. Sad to say that at 85 his mind is becoming confused. But he and Uncle Frank had a great life.

 

In contrast with modern cruise terminals going up around the world, the New York City piers in 1961 were starkly utilitarian, with dark cavernous interiors and chilly in the wintertime.

 

Donald.

[Conte Di Savoia]

Fantastic family pictures! Thanks for sharing them. Was Uncle Frank on the grand tour? Visiting with family? Trips to Europe were a commitment in those days and long visits were not unusual, in fact probably the usual. If I can figure out to how digitize my super 8 movies taken on board I might wind up posting them one day.

[Saga Ruby]

Ruby, you passed your Golden Anniversary a few years ago - was it in 1957 or 1958 that you sailed on Empress of England, or was that Empress of Britain? Donald.

 

You have an impressive memory. My family sailed on Empress of Britain from Montreal to Liverpool in June 1957, as soon as our school was out for the summer. My father chose that sea route so that 1,000 miles of the crossing would be in the St. Lawrence Seaway which has mostly calm waters. As we crossed the North Atlantic, we could see large icebergs on the horizon.

 

My sister, a lovely girl of 15 yrs., was quite a hit with the RAF pilots onboard our ship. As a 13 yr.-old, I could only watch with envy as those handsome lads in uniform flirted with my sister.

 

When we arrived in Liverpool, there was a Ford Consort waiting on the dock, purchased by my father in advance of our arrival. We piled our cases into that little car and spent 10 weeks traveling all over Europe from Amsterdam to Seville. One leg of our journey was by air to “Spanish” Morocco” and, although we visited in Tetuan and Tangiers, my memory of that jaunt is our Muslim guide who had two thumbs on one hand. My sister and I were afraid to shake his hand for fear of touching two perfectly-formed thumbs on one stalk.

 

Donald - About Uncle Frank in Second Class - we were in First Class and oh-so-gently kept in that section with the assigned corridors and mysterious connecting doors to the public areas. My sister and I wanted to visit in the Second Class section but it was not allowed by the crew who kept a covertly-strict eye on us. Our cabin stewardess called us the Mucky Dears which our parents picked up and used for years.

 

I wish my family had enjoyed the splendors of the major ocean liners of the day which were elaborated decorated and represented their countries with national pride. I sailed only 4 times as a teenager with my family. Otherwise, it was land travel with my parents.

 

Conte & Donald - I still miss the streamers from ship to shore in Montreal. You?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Fantastic family pictures! Thanks for sharing them. Was Uncle Frank on the grand tour? Visiting with family? Trips to Europe were a commitment in those days and long visits were not unusual, in fact probably the usual. If I can figure out to how digitize my super 8 movies taken on board I might wind up posting them one day.

 

Uncle Frank sailed to Italy that year to take a university course for a few months. He was fluent in Italian, as well as in French (he took a course in France a few years later). He was a professor of music at the university in West Chester, Pennsylvania.

 

He was always fascinated by Europe, and began sailing there during the late 1920s and continued through the 1930s. He started in First Class, but soon began going Second Class because that was where the artists and teachers were, and he enjoyed stimulating conversations with them. He had trained to be a chemist, but the influence of these shipboard companions made him switch to music. He was an excellent singer, too.

 

Italy was his favourite country, he visited there often and learned the language. He liked Italian Line's transatlantic liners, and I know that he was on Cristoforo Colombo in 1959. He did sail on other liners like the 1960s Bremen of which he had fond memories.

 

During his last three decades he went on several cruises yearly, often to the Caribbean to escape the winters in Philadelphia. I suppose that I am following in his footsteps.

 

Donald.

[Kapricorn]

Conte & Donald - I still miss the streamers from ship to shore in Montreal. You?

 

Mucky Dear Ruby, Yes, I miss the colourful streamers which provided festive atmospheres to ocean liner departures. I do understand that it entailed considerable dock clean-up afterwards, as well as the transition into muck on the sea bed.

 

In 1962 my mother and I visited Empress of England in Montreal to see a couple of relatives off. Yes, indeed, the voyage up the calm St. Lawrence River was a highlight of the voyage, as I discovered aboard Empress of Canada in 1964. I found three photographs of the 1962 visit in my album.

 

We are at the stern, with the ship's bell behind the railing. A freighter is moored behind us.

 

 





 



 







 



 







 

 

I am standing beside the life ring, with "SS E. of England" on it.

Empress of England is pulling away from the dock.

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

Mucky Dear Ruby, Yes, I miss the colourful streamers which provided festive atmospheres to ocean liner departures. I do understand that it entailed considerable dock clean-up afterwards, as well as the transition into muck on the sea bed.

Empress of England is pulling away from the dock. Donald.

I gotta tell ya - for a young teen raised in landlocked Texas, the Empress of Britain, her twin, was the cat's pyjamas. I was full of excitement upon seeing a huge white ship tied at the dock, the intriguing smell of sea air, the luxury of being waited on like a maharani at tea time in the semi-enclosed promenade deck - vivid memories of that first crossing. Empress of England and Empress of Britain were owned by Canadian Pacific which evidently held the transport contract for the RAF. Bless 'em.

 

The mind boggles at what Conte enjoyed on those luxurious ocean liners.

 

Mucky Dear Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Ruby, you sailed four times on transatlantic liners during your teens. Besides Empress of Britain, what were the other three ships? Were these all through the St. Lawrence River (because you mentioned missing out on the splendors of the major ocean liners of the day)?

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

Ruby, you sailed four times on transatlantic liners during your teens. Besides Empress of Britain, what were the other three ships? Were these all through the St. Lawrence River (because you mentioned missing out on the splendors of the major ocean liners of the day)? Donald.

 

My family sailed once on a crossing. The other cruises were a Greek Islands cruise, a cruise from Miami to Nassau and La Habana on a dangerous tub of a "ship" where Fidel had just taken over Cuba (1959). My memory of downtown Havana is of dark khaki-clad soldiers with machine guns on every corner. It didn't scare me - I was just intrigued in seeing armed men with evil-looking guns at their sides. Oh. And they all had beards!

 

The fourth family cruise to the Holy Land was on a ship whose name absolutely escapes me. I could tell a story about my father being arrested onboard our ship in Haifa in 1962 for photographing a WWII sub next to us. I grabbed my purse and told my sister we had to go with him and my soon-to-be-married sister replied, "I'm not going anywhere."

 

My father always had the best suites in the best hotels in Europe but he balked at spending $$$$ on ocean liners which puzzles me to this day. So I enjoy hearing Conte's stories of the abfab liners that plied the sea lanes back in the day.

 

Every advancement in modern transportation fed my father's love of travel. We flew on the first "jet-assisted" turboprop from Bermuda to NYC, and we pioneered airplane travel across the Atlantic, thereby becoming part of the end of people crossing the Atlantic on the high seas.

 

Ruby

[Host Sharon]

Which Thursday are you visiting Prinsendam? I may have missed my moment but was curious about the stern of Promenade Deck which used to have deckchairs under shade; it is my understanding that that open space has been turned into more cabins. That location was my favourite place on the ship - one walked thru the casino, thru a lounge, then out onto the covered deck. I would pretend to read my Kindle while enjoying an unbeatable view of Napoli, Sevastopol, and other great locales.

 

Sympathy from my side of the street about being onboard so many ships in short order. You must feel like you're bumping into walls by now. Do you have an assigned parking space in Soton?

 

Ruby

 

 

Wow again - all these fabulous memories of real Atlantic liners ! I can but dream !!

 

I am going in two days time to Prinsendam Ruby so will try and check out the stern deckchairs for you Ruby. Then Oriana on Friday, Aurora on Sunday, Arcadia on the 3rd and Adonia on the 16th! I think that will be end of it !! Then we just have the samll matter of finishing text choosing photos, writing captions......... oh, well I did ask for it !! :)

[Kapricorn]

Ruby, you must have been among the last Americans to visit La Habana? I don't know when your government imposed the embargo on Cuba, but it must have not been too long afterwards.

 

The WWII sub must have been still in commission by Israel, which accounted for your father's arrest? How long was he detained?

 

Donald.

[Kapricorn]

I am going in two days time to Prinsendam Ruby so will try and check out the stern deckchairs for you Ruby. Then Oriana on Friday, Aurora on Sunday, Arcadia on the 3rd and Adonia on the 16th! I think that will be end of it !! Then we just have the samll matter of finishing text choosing photos, writing captions......... oh, well I did ask for it !! :)

 

Sharon, I must have misunderstood the intent of the book that you are doing for P&O's anniversary. I had thought that it would be a history of the line and their ships. So, it is actually a book about ships currently in service?

 

Isn't Prinsendam part of Holland-America ... are you visiting her on your own, and it has nothing to do with the book?

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

You have a note on this board that asks about "Has anyone been on C.T.M.A. Vacancier ferry/cruise from Montreal to Magdalen Islands lately?"

 

Are you and Barry off on another adventure?

 

Ruby

[MMDown Under]

You have a note on this board that asks about "Has anyone been on C.T.M.A. Vacancier ferry/cruise from Montreal to Magdalen Islands lately?"

 

Are you and Barry off on another adventure?

 

Ruby

 

Yes, Ruby, I was in the process of booking, whilst I was enjoying reading all the fascinating stories about cruising along the St Lawrence Seaway on this thread. I am so excited, as I have wanted to cruise along the St Lawrence River for ever.

 

After the cruise, we are flying to Newfoundland for a fortnight. Another one off my wish list!

 

Of course, the main reason for our travels is to visit our younger daughter, who is currently living in Toronto.

 

I have been enjoying reading all the interesting stories of your wonderful cruising adventures in the early days, as well as those by Conte and Donald.

[Kapricorn]

 

My father always had the best suites in the best hotels in Europe but he balked at spending $$$$ on ocean liners which puzzles me to this day. So I enjoy hearing Conte's stories of the abfab liners that plied the sea lanes back in the day.

 

 

Ruby, it's possible that your father decided why he should spend $$$ on a week-long ocean voyage when he can bring his family faster across the ocean on a Boeing 707? It was during the late 1950s and 1960s that vacationers began to pay attention to the restrictions of time, and plan their trips accordingly.

 

My friends in Los Angeles also always stays at 5-star hotels during their travels, but flies in Economy Class. When I asked why, the wife said, "Why should we pay extra for First Class when my husband spends most of the flight sleeping? That's a waste of money." It sorta makes sense.

 

Donald.

[Host Sharon]

Oooh lovely Marion. I love Newfoundland and have cruised a little of the St Lawrence to Quebec and along the Saguenay River. Look out for the Beluga whales.

[Kapricorn]

I also sailed the St. Lawrence river at the end of a Boston-Montreal cruise in 2006. However, we left Quebec late at night and arrived in Montreal in the early morning, so did not see much. The day before that, the ship went a bit up the Saguenay River but it was rainy and chilly, so I was in the ship's observation lounge most of the time. I will have to try the New England cruise one more time, perhaps the weather will co-operate.

 

Donald.

[MMDown Under]

Oooh lovely Marion. I love Newfoundland and have cruised a little of the St Lawrence to Quebec and along the Saguenay River. Look out for the Beluga whales.

 

I also sailed the St. Lawrence river at the end of a Boston-Montreal cruise in 2006. However, we left Quebec late at night and arrived in Montreal in the early morning, so did not see much. The day before that, the ship went a bit up the Saguenay River but it was rainy and chilly, so I was in the ship's observation lounge most of the time. I will have to try the New England cruise one more time, perhaps the weather will co-operate.

 

Donald.

 

Donald, The ferry departs Montreal at 3.00 pm on the way down river and, on the way up river, it arrives at Quebec at 1.00 pm and departs at 7.00 pm, so I hope that will allow me to see some of the best scenery in daylight.

 

Yes, I'll be up bright and early whale spotting, Sharon.

[Host Sharon]

By the way Marion, I see you sailed on the Chusan in 1970? We would love the hear any memories of that voyage for the book? If you wanted you could email at if you wished. And anyone else of course with P&O memories.

 

175celebration@gmail.com

Edited July 21, 2011 by Host Sharon

[Kapricorn]

These six formal night photographs taken in different cruise ship's dining rooms over the past 50 years may be of interest, to show how fashions and decor have changed, as well as my "Dorian Gray" transformation (LOL).

 

1963: aboard Atlantic in the Caribbean for my 17th birthday. My mother and I are seated with two ladies (who were sisters) from Connecticut and New York.

 



1972: aboard Victoria. I was 25 and on my first solo cruise, between New York City and the Caribbean.

 



1982: aboard Song of Norway. I accompanied my friend who worked as a travel agent, and we found ourselves at a table with six young women who also were travel agents. Each of us paid a special rate of $150 for the Caribbean cruise. I was 35.

 



1989: aboard Rotterdam. As a 42-year-old solo traveler I had a table in the splendid dining room of the ex-ocean liner. It was a 17-day Panama Canal cruise from Vancouver to Miami, among my favourite cruises!

 



2007: aboard Mercury to Alaska. These were among the most interesting table companions that I've ever had. I was 60.

 



2011: aboard Century to Alaska, at a centrally-located table with companions from Belgium, California and Vancouver Island. One of my rare cruises in which I was accompanied by a friend. Practically a "senior citizen" at 64!

 

 

Donald.

[Host Sharon]

Which Thursday are you visiting Prinsendam? I may have missed my moment but was curious about the stern of Promenade Deck which used to have deckchairs under shade; it is my understanding that that open space has been turned into more cabins. That location was my favourite place on the ship - one walked thru the casino, thru a lounge, then out onto the covered deck. I would pretend to read my Kindle while enjoying an unbeatable view of Napoli, Sevastopol, and other great locales.

 

Sympathy from my side of the street about being onboard so many ships in short order. You must feel like you're bumping into walls by now. Do you have an assigned parking space in Soton?

 

Ruby

 

Hi Ruby - while we couldn't get right round the stern due to refuelling and deck washing, I think your deck chairs are safe. There were certainly not cabins there that I could see. She is a beautiful classic ship - I just wish P&O had filched her instead of Royal Princess but I guess HAL want to keep her too much. :(

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/sharonp...ipsPrinsendam#

 

Great photos Donald. How times have changed !

Edited July 21, 2011 by Host Sharon

[Saga Ruby]

Ruby, it's possible that your father decided why he should spend $$$ on a week-long ocean voyage when he can bring his family faster across the ocean on a Boeing 707? It was during the late 1950s and 1960s that vacationers began to pay attention to the restrictions of time, and plan their trips accordingly. Donald.

 

That jet-assisted turboprop was, I think, a 707A. Boeing got into the pure jet age with the 707C. If anyone would care to correct me, I'd like to know. I'm surprised that anyone likes reading my ancient travel memories. When I get home from my travels, few people ask about details and I don't inflict personal stories on wary listeners. I think the major reason is that geography is not in style nowadays. If I talk about the Black Sea, the listeners have no idea where I'm talking about. And before I made that cruise, neither did I.

 

These six formal night photographs taken in different cruise ship's dining rooms over the past 50 years may be of interest, to show how fashions and decor have changed, as well as my "Dorian Gray" transformation (LOL). Donald.

 

May I say that you have aged quite well and your current appearance is quite nice. Now, about that oil painting in the attic . . . And a tip of the hat that you can dredge up this archival set of photos. Good on you and thanks for sharing.

 

Hi Ruby - while we couldn't get right round the stern due to refuelling and deck washing, I think your deck chairs are safe. There were certainly not cabins there that I could see. She is a beautiful classic ship - I just wish P&O had filched her instead of Royal Princess but I guess HAL want to keep her too much.

 

I was quite fond of Prinsendam and am glad to hear that you, with all your recent and past exposure to ships, enjoyed being onboard. I was in Cabin 109 which is a very high deck and right at the steps to the outside deck. I really liked that cabin but, then again, I like any cabin, stateroom, or suite that resides on any ship.

 

Ruby