Where did NCL go wrong with Hawaii?

[electricron]

I don't understand why NCLA is recruiting and training in Maryland instead of in Hawaii. Tourism is a (the) major business in Hawaii and I would think there would be a large pool of experienced hotel employees available that might want to try something different and might appreciate the chance to regularly visit other islands. I also don't see why NCLA doesn't contract for services to be provided from an on-shore workforce. Just bring in a new set of housekeepers at each port. No need to pay room and board (and take up space that could be used for more passengers of revenue-generating activities, like bars or shops). Since the "automatic tip" is really a service charge, just spread it equally among the on-shore staff or use it for on-ship staff. I get the impression that a lot of cruisers like knowing who their stewards are, but one doesn't at a hotel and one doesn't get to know one's waiters under a freestyle dining experience as one does in regular set-seating dining cruises. I would think use of onshore facilities for some services would also be popular with the politicians that supported putting a U.S. flag on a cruise line--more work for local workers, rather than bringing in workers from the mainland. NCLA needs to be a little more creative in finding ways to improve service while keeping costs low.

 

You have an excellent idea, except for several Major problems.

Every hand, that includes the waiters, waitresses, and housekeepers, must be a qualified seaman. Yes, even the lowest of the low has to know how to fight fires, respond to medical emergencies, provide first aid, and help man and deploy the lifeboats.

Besides, every single member of the crew has to be a member of a union. Hawaii is, after all, a Pro-Union state, not a Right-to-Work state.

Hiring unqualified hands isn't the answer for improving service related issues.

[Kapuna]

pog27: We're pretty familiar with Hawaii, but I admit we don't know everything. Nevertheless, you would be hard pressed to find a four star resort for less than $300, except during "quiet" times (such as between Thanksgiving and Christmas or shortly after Labor Day, that sort of thing). In August? I seriously doubt you'd find any of the high-end resorts at "bargain" rates.

 

I do agree that pricing on NCLA is an issue though. OTOH, they have to play by the US labor and overtime laws, so that's bound to factor into it. OTOH again, when they do have specials, they can be excellent. As with most lines, those bargains are not going to be during peak periods like summer vacation times.

 

Kapuna: A 10 day cruise for $79 total? That's mind-boggling. Are you sure it wasn't a pricing error? I'd think they'd rather cruise with an empty cabin. All I can say is "wow"!

 

To everyone: I don't think that NCLA went "wrong" so much as they didn't really know what to expect and didn't anticipate some of the issues that have come up. There are things that definitely need to be addressed, but DH and I thoroughly enjoyed our PoH cruise last December. If anyone is interested, I wrote a detailed and possibly mind-numbingly extensive review:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=476505

 

beachchick

No , it was not a pricing error . The fare was listed as $79 , but port charges , taxes and insurance brought the total to $334 for the 10 day cruise.

By the way, local newspapers in Honolulu are frequently advertizing 7 day cruises on the three " Pride " ships for $499 total .

[odblnt]

You have an excellent idea, except for several Major problems.

Every hand, that includes the waiters, waitresses, and housekeepers, must be a qualified seaman. Yes, even the lowest of the low has to know how to fight fires, respond to medical emergencies, provide first aid, and help man and deploy the lifeboats.

Besides, every single member of the crew has to be a member of a union. Hawaii is, after all, a Pro-Union state, not a Right-to-Work state.

Hiring unqualified hands isn't the answer for improving service related issues.

 

And the other "problem" we have here is the very low percentage of unemployment (supposedly one of the lowest in the nation). I work part time at our local entertainment complex (concert hall/exhibition hall/arena) where they have a major job fair several times a year. The pool of available qualified applicants is fairly small and all those companies are really fighting over them.

 

Pete

[Maraprince]

Last August one of my co-workers and his wife sailed on POA with 20 other family members for a wedding held in Hawaii.

 

Starting from the pickup at the airport, they encountered problems from the get go. The airport pickup rep only showed transfers for him and not her. After a discussion of 20 minutes, he finally convinced her that he bought and paid for transfers for him and his wife.

 

A strong odor hit them as soon as they entered their cabin. Among the group of 22, they were all on the 9th deck in outside and interior cabins. All the bookings were handled through one TA as well as all the wedding details. He complained about the odor that was coming from the shower drain to the Purser and then he waited and waited. When no one came to check it out after 3 more phone calls, his wife and him went to the cabin of one of the others in their party to shower for dinner.

 

He went to the Purser's office and was told there was no other cabin available at the same rate he paid but if he was willing to pay more, he could be moved to another cabin! This wasn't about an upgrade but a odor that made staying in the cabin a non option! There was no language problem but a refusal to acknowlege the real issue. Totally unacceptable.

 

My friend filled the shower and used a wash cloth to keep the water from going down and then closed the bathroom door.

 

His wife complained of headaches and feeling dizzy. They went to the doctor to be checked out. She wasn't able to go swimming because of the dizziness and feeling nauseous. She is a swimming instructor and looked forward to diving and surfing. At the wedding reception held on shore, she almost fainted. My friend again requested a change of cabin and was told to pack up their belongings to move in 45 minutes. After 2 hours and no one showing up, he again called the Purser's office to find out what the problem was. He wasn't moved until the next day and missed an outting with the rest of the group.

 

Now the bride and groom were in a balcony cabin with no AC the entire cruise.

 

My friend found out from their original cabin steward that the same odor was present during the previous sailing. Why would they not have switched my friend upon boarding instead of him having to wait 3 days before moving him? The ship wasn't full and the first time he asked about changing cabins, he was asked for more money. The bride and groom finally were sent a fan to cool their cabin.

 

They paid more for this sailing that what other lines charge for an older ship that wasn't in the best shape. The food quality was less than it should have been. They ate mostly at the buffets due to the slow service and had to deal with health problems they didn't come with. Other members of the party on the 9th deck also had the same odor in their cabins, but my friend and his wife had it the worst.

 

After months of letters to NCLA they finally had their medical charges refunded to them and received a credit of $237 each towards a future cruise.

This was a one time event -- a wedding -- that was less than normal. The TA who booked them said she was done with NCLA because of too many dissatisfied customers who refused to book with her again. She said that she could not afford to keep losing customers who blamed her for the problems that they ecountered with NCLA. At least this is what she told my friend.

 

His wife wants to use the credit on NCL this year while he would rather not go with them or any of their divisions. Once was more than enough for him.

 

Hawaii should be the main focus not the ship. But if there are problems with the ship and the service, this is what sticks in your mind.

 

He would rather do a land trip to Hawaii and spend more time in each port than just one day. He cannot understand why having an American crew would present the amount of problems that it did. It should be just the opposite -- no cultural differences, no language problems, etc. But it seems something is terrible amiss here.

 

While it is true all new ships have problems in their early days, after a reasonable amount of time things settle down. What the problem with NCLA? How long is it going to take? Prices as higher than other cruise lines while the service just isn't there.

 

What is the answer that keeps eluding NCLA? There has to be something here that is being overlooked.

 

Disney ships do not have casinos on board and yet they aren't losing money. Maybe NCLA and NCL should study how Disney runs their ships and make the necessary adjustments.

 

If the American crew is being misled when they are hired, whose fault is that? If they do not receive the proper training, again whose fault is it?

 

The cost of living in Hawaii is so high, most residents have to have more than one job to just get by. NCLA/NCL wasn't a stranger to Hawaii so they had to have some idea of what they were getting into and the high failure rate of so many other cruise lines. It remains to be seen if having a 25% foreign crew will improve anything. Are they planning on paying the 25% foreign crew at a lower rate than the American crew? They will only create more problems!

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[Maraprince]

part 2

 

 

His wife wants the real "cruise" experience she didn't get on NCLA last year. He is going with her because she is his wife and to use up the $237 credits they received from last year! He told her if she isn't satisfied this time with NCL, next year he will go to a different cruise line. He is done with NCL/NCLA. For almost $6,000, it was money thrown down the drain (excuse the pun).

 

They take several land vacations each year to California, Florida, Arizona and South Carolina and know good service when they get it from Americans. NCLA fell far short of good service.

 

He is a diabetic and has to eat regularly so that is why they ate only at the buffets. Most of the 2 plus hours in the dining room were due to being seated and then left for 20 minutes without even a menu or anything on the table. Eating at 5:30 PM is too early when they are just about reboarding the ship at that time. They like to shower after being out all day and coming back all sweaty. Plus, they did want to see the entertainment being offered on board without having to run off the dinner table or walking in after the show started.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[mikedw]

Actually it's going to be 15% foreign crew and they will receive the same pay and benefits, belong to the union and pay US Taxes. Disney doesn't have a casino, but they don't have to deal with US labor laws. Sorry you guys had a bad time, but I here the same complaints from clients on all the cruise lines. My personal favorite is the gentleman who call Princess a cattle boat. I have clients who said the POA was there best cruise ever. Everyone experiences things differently.

[daveco58]

Actually, yes, they will pay foreign crew less. All lines do this. By contract with the SIU, pay scales for Seaman are determined by their country of origin. This is why, for instance, Princess advertises "all European staff", but if you look closely, stewards and waiters are mostly Eastern Europeans, who get paid "third world" wages.

NCLA's staffing problems are brought on by a combination of things: First off, the United States has no Seafaring tradition. Thanks to the Jones Act, very few Americans have worked on a cruise ship in the last 50 years. The idea of a 70 hour work week (minimum) is alien to most of us. And eager young Americans get burnt out quickly, because they know they can do better back home.

Secondly, the United States has no Service tradition. Quite simply, we dont respect the people who make our beds and carry our bags, which is why we have to import service workers from Mexico and Central America. So eager young Americans dont feel a lot of pride in what they are doing.

And, lastly, good Food/Beverage workers here make WAY more than NCLA pays. As a Bartender, I clear $500-600 a week, working 30 hours, and that is not exceptional. NCLA could not afford me, much as I sometimes have wished to work on a ship.

I recall when I cruised on Crown Cruise Line, in their first year, my steward told me they held a job fair in Manila, and emptied several 4 and 5 star hotels of staff, by offering higher wages than the hotels. While they got excellent staff, they also went BK in a couple of years.

If NCLA tried that in L.A. or Honolulu, they would get better staff, but they would have to charge triple what they do now, and still would be losing money.

[beachchick]

I got that email as well, but it turns out they were talking about the prices of shore excursions, not the price of the trip.

 

No , it was not a pricing error . The fare was listed as $79 , but port charges , taxes and insurance brought the total to $334 for the 10 day cruise.

By the way, local newspapers in Honolulu are frequently advertizing 7 day cruises on the three " Pride " ships for $499 total .

 

Okay, now I'm really confused (yeah, like that's anything new for me).:rolleyes:

 

Kapuna, did you actually run a ressie as if you were going to book? Sounds like you did. (And p.s., Who could possibly resist that fare?)

 

We've also seen the Pride ships advertised at around $500 for inside cabins. That seems to be right about where they drop them to when they feel the need to fill up the ships. You sure aren't going to find a resort and food and entertainment and inter-island transportation for anywhere near that low a price. Goodness, we paid more for 4 nights at the Royal Hawaiian (although it did include car and a $75 food voucher) during the "off" time in December before Christmas--Not to mention that they upgraded the "cheapie" portico view room we paid for to the end unit of the two-room large suites on the second floor (historic wing) overlooking the pool, beach, and Diamond Head. I have no idea why, but we got all kinds of goodies included and were VIP'd all over the place at the RH (invites to cocktail parties, special treats, etc.). DH teased me that "they must know beachchick is here!":D Yeah, right.;)

 

Anyway, thanks for the response. If we lived in Hawaii (dream on, girl), I think that would be far too tempting to pass up.

 

beachchick

[Deck10 007]

So far NCLA have not seen the hand of the union yet. They probably will when the 25% foreign crew comes aboard. I don't think NCLA management is very exicited about the union. Why do you think Walmart and Toyota is fighting tooth and nail to keep the union out.

NCLA will have to pay US wages to the foreign crew. Not only that, if the US crew is say cleaning up only 20 rooms per day ther is no way the union will let the foreign crew clean more than 20 rooms a day.

[Giantfan13]

WE sailed the POH last august, and had many comments after the cruise, both positive and negative. After reading this thread, some things that are important about the crew just weren't mentioned. If any past cruisers on the 3 ships talked with any of the American crew, you would instantly understand why things are the way they are. These ship's crew don't consider this their 'life's work'. Almost to a man or woman, when we cruised, most said they were working on the ship as a year off from college, or something different to do AFTER college, before they start their real careers. Most thought the idea of being in Hawaii for whatever term they signed up for was great. But most were ready top leave after that term was up.

That said, most of the crew worked very hard, but they just weren't professional waiters, professional stewards, professional anything. Most considered it a 'summer' type job, before the REAL world set in. With that in mind, how can you compare this crew to any other ship where they are basically professionals.

As several have said, the Hawaiian cruise experience isn't a real cruise, it's just a floating hotel. When we cruised, we were prepared for that, but we didn't realize how it did effect us in a sort of negative way. Don't get me wrong, Hawaii was magnificent, but we just missed many of the things that make cruising so wonderful-sea days and the entire relaxing experience. There is NO relaxing on a Hawaiian cruise, it's rush, rush, rush, all the time. Rush to get off the ship, rush to squeeze as much shore time as possible, rush to get back on the ship, rush to eat, and even try and make a show.

But in the long run, seeing Hawaii makes it all worthwhile. When you look back, maybe 2,3 4 months later, all those 'problems' that you thought were so importants right after the cruise, just weren't as important as the great memories of Hawaii.

[whale-watcher]

...There is NO relaxing on a Hawaiian cruise, it's rush, rush, rush, all the time. Rush to get off the ship, rush to squeeze as much shore time as possible, rush to get back on the ship, rush to eat, and even try and make a show.

But in the long run, seeing Hawaii makes it all worthwhile. When you look back, maybe 2,3 4 months later, all those 'problems' that you thought were so importants right after the cruise, just weren't as important as the great memories of Hawaii.

We also try to pack as much as possible into our travel days...but because we are sailing NCLA in Hawaii (instead of our usual Princess), we can also combine our cruise with a relaxing stay at a land-based resort as well...and we will TRY to force ourselves to slow down and relax a bit on the cruise itself.