Where did NCL go wrong with Hawaii?

[cruizinwithkids]

I would assume NCL/Star/Genting Group did a lot of research in preparing for the Hawaiian cruise market and yet it doesn't seem to be working. From the reviews that I read, it seems the number one problem is the wait for food, whether it be in the dining rooms or the buffet. I read on another board that NCLA held a job fair in Philly and they did not have one person sign up. So it seems to ME that there is a problem with hiring and keeping employees.

 

NCL has pulled the international ship that cruised Hawaii. I am guessing that is to reduce the competition and make the US flagged the only option.

 

My question for those of you who seem pretty astute about the NCLA business is what is really wrong? What did NCL not figure in the calculation? Will the Hawaiian cruises become profitable (how?)? Are these still considered startup problems? Or like other Hawaiian cruise endeavors will this project fail? Is NCLA making other changes to help? There are a lot of people who seem happy with their cruise. If you look at the reviews on CC, there are many more ratings of 5 than 1 or 2. So it seems that people who are prepared are happy with the product, but there are huge losses reported. What is the problem?

 

Just looking for opinions. Thanks.

[BeachBumMama]

I did just read recently that I think they are partnering with some sort of school? Am I correct in this? If so, I hope there are enough that want to train in the hospitality industry to improve the work force as it seems that is the major problem right now.

 

I'm pulling for them because the itineraries can't be beat. When I plan for Hawaii I will still go with NCLA and if dinners in the main restaurants taking too long is my only problem, I'll buffet it every night. Food isn't all that important to me, nor a 2 hour dinner. In Hawaii, give me fresh pineapple and I'll be a happy camper all week.:D

[Globaliser]

My question for those of you who seem pretty astute about the NCLA business is what is really wrong? What did NCL not figure in the calculation? Will the Hawaiian cruises become profitable (how?)? Are these still considered startup problems? Or like other Hawaiian cruise endeavors will this project fail? Is NCLA making other changes to help? There are a lot of people who seem happy with their cruise. If you look at the reviews on CC, there are many more ratings of 5 than 1 or 2. So it seems that people who are prepared are happy with the product, but there are huge losses reported. What is the problem?

I can't claim to be an expert, but I think that the fundamental problem is that NCL under-estimated the difficulties that they would encounter with recruiting and keeping personnel, and therefore the crewing costs of the operation. That problem has been reflected in many different but interlinking ways: insufficient crew numbers on board from time to time; young, immature, under-experienced and under-trained crew; demotivated crew who'd found that the job was not what they thought it would be; consequent high turnover and low retention and a constant need to hire completely fresh personnel.

 

I also haven't been keeping up with the details, but there were some things that NCLA did which would have helped, such as using shoreside contract day labour for cleaning (but I don't know whether this is still going on). And one other change which effectively extends their exemptions/waivers from the legislation: the 25% of non-US citizen crew can now be truly foreign, when previously they had to be at least Green Card holders.

 

Is it going to be enough? Personally, I'm sceptical. But the outturn is not yet decided, and it will be interesting to see what happens.

[smeyer418]

reseach sometimes doesn't get you a true picture. Its only after you do something do you really know what the unplanned issues will be. Planning only goes so far as well. Sometimes true genius requires doing something even when the "experts" say it can't be done. If you asked the experts at IBM 30 years ago about PC's they would have told you there would be no demand. IBM had the oppurtunity to buy the original microsoft program but chose to license it instead(big mistake)...

 

you know the expression success has a million parents and failure is an orphan...

[singerdance]

I am with you Beachbumama

[PDAZ]

Food isn't all that important to me, nor a 2 hour dinner. In Hawaii, give me fresh pineapple and I'll be a happy camper all week.:D

 

Ditto! They certainly could make improvements in how the ship is run, but when it comes down to it, we're there for the itinerary!

[aldewitt]

Although I do not like the freestyle cruising approach (I think its no better than the idiots at Sonic asking me "you want tater tots with that?"), I think the NCLA boats are very good.

 

Some people go on a cruise with the expectation that they are not going to get the value of the money they paid for their cruise. They then reinforce this belief with every negative experience they have, and often you'll find them grumping about one thing or another in the midst of natural beauty that has everyone else's mouth hanging open. In short, these are people who, no matter what, are convinced they are NOT going to have a good time. From the moment they get on, they talk about how this isn't like Royal Carribean, or Princess, or Carnivore. I tend to discount the negative reviews. If I ran the boat, I'd do things differently. But I do not. So I accept that not EVERYTHING will be perfect.

 

When I go on a cruise, I look for ways to thank people and tip people, and smile back at people. I recognize their hard work, and I make it a point to win over even the most snarly of people because I absolutely refuse to let anyone ruin my vacation.

 

If you look for the good, there's a lot to find. The staff are American. They speak, imagine this, fluent English. They understand obscure slang like "bring me a coke" and "cool." I also don't worry that they might be stealing anything that isn't nailed down or stored in the safe. For the most part, if you're nice to them, and recognize that they are doing a tough job under tough conditions, they respond admirably.

 

Are there a few jerks in every crowd? Sure, and I could tell you some stories. But what would be the point. The worst cruise I ever took, was absolutely wonderful.

 

NCLA has some labor issues they need to get worked out. They've only been at this a few years. I think if you give them time, you'll find the experience to be a truly marvelous one.

 

:)

[Globaliser]

If you look for the good, there's a lot to find. The staff are American. ... I also don't worry that they might be stealing anything that isn't nailed down or stored in the safe.

Are you suggesting that non-American crew are less honest?

[aldewitt]

Are you suggesting that non-American crew are less honest?

 

Not really, no. If you paid attention, what I actually said was that "I didn't worry about theft," which is, of course, a statement of my predisposition, not a prediction of loss based on nationality.

 

I just feel more comfortable with a staff that speaks my language. To the extent that reflects a problem, it's my problem.:)

[jingle5616]

Where did they go wrong..... hum, a two hour dinner would tick me off. My stateroom not being cleaned would tick me off. Having to wait a extra ordinary amount of time to get a table would tick me off. Crew members who don't want to be working would tick me off..... and the many other complaints that I have read in the reviews. I don't want to be ticked on my vacation, other passengers don't want me ticked on my vacation, so I will and have avoided NCLA like the plauge. I'm sure that I am not alone in my decision.

 

Jingle

[newmexicoNita]

I wonder how much truth is in the story about holding a job fair in Philly and not one person showed up. I guess anything can happen, being a sceptic (spelling) by nature this is hard for me to beleive. As for how they went wrong or where? I am not sure they did, I just don't think they realized what the difference was between an American flagged ship with a majority of the crew members being from the states and the international crew. Everryone knows there is a need for this type of sailing, it just requires ironing out the wrinkles which are obviously a little deeper than many expected. Lets wait until next year when NCLA is able to hire more from other countries.

 

The port intensive itineraries with longer than normal land excursions create a special problem at dinner time. Everyone is trying to eat at or near the same time thus the wait is often longer than on normal cruises.

 

I have said before and will probably continue to harp, cruisers wanting to do the islands need to be throughly educated on the difference between a Caribbean cruise and a Hawaiian Island cruise and yes, there are differences. NMnita

[Poconolady]

As with so many posts about the NCLA cruises in Hawaii, everything is negative. We cruised the POAL last year and had a great time--but encountered the problems that so many complain about. It IS annoying, since you have spent your hard earned money and vacation days-the key to enjoying these cruises are to relax and go with the flow. Accept the fact going in that you are going to have a wonderful time in paradise-but that not everything that you have come to expect as cruisers on other lines is going to be done to your expectations. Relax, you are on vacation. And then learn how to beat the NCLA system.

1. Long waits for diing room and buffets seem to be inevitable. So, eat early or late-do not go at prime times. Breakfast in the dining room seemed to go faster than fighting for a place to sit at the buffet.

2. We made a point of having a great lunch off of the ship each day. The islands are known for their wonderful cuisine--but it isn't served on the ship, so research out where you can make reservations and have a wonderful lunch, or stop at some really great funky places for real food. 3.Having a car is essential, taking the ships tours does not allow you to really experience Hawaii, it only lets you take a quick peek at the scenery. Driving in the islands is simple and the process of picking up and dropping off your car at the agencys doesn't take long at all. Having a car at your disposal allows YOU to take control of your vacation. You can eat off of the ship, you can see the islands, you can shop where YOU want. Somehow the problems on the ship don't seem so important when you know that tomorrow you will step off onto another beautiful island and be your own boss on how you spend your time. Remember, the Hawaii cruises can be had for some of the lowest fares, so plan on spending your savings for food off of the ship.

4. We had no problems with our cabin steward. Our cabn was made up each day, ice bucket filled, bathroom cleaned etc. No we did not see our steward, but he was there. He never came to introduce himself, but that didn't matter--I wasn't looking to make a lifelong friend. As long as the room was clean and neat thats all I cared about. Many of the posters complain about the lack of service, I think that many are just trying to say that they didn't enjoy the ammenities that other cruise lines offer.

5. Understand going in that this is NOT a Luxury cruise, It is a floating hotel that takes you to many wonderful places. You should expect some dining delays. Prepare for it, have some snacks in your room (so far they haven't banned snacks from being brought on board, only beverages), or order room service and have a little something so that you can put off going to the dining room until later.

6. Relax, relax, relax, you are on vacation. Simmer down. Change that attitude and you will have awonderful time.

7. NCLA is the cruise line for you if you are going to Hawaii to see the islands--if you are going for a magnificent cruise experience then shop around for another cruise line or another location for your vacation.

Even with the agrivations that we experienced last year--we are going again this year. Why? Easy. There is no other cruise line that covers so many islands., spends as much time in port instead of floating at sea, and does it in the one week time frame that most of us working people have for a vacation. Yes I am going in with open eyes, I will keep telling myself to relax, I will tell myself that eating on time and quickly isn't important--and I will ENJOY MYSELF!!

[newmexicoNita]

Are you suggesting that non-American crew are less honest?

If she is that is as idiotic as the gal at Sonic asking if you want tater tots. Sorry couldn't resist that. 20 plus cruises and never have it crossed my mind the crew would steal from me whether they speatk my language or not. NMNita

[mikedw]

I just don't get what the problem is with a two hour dinner. Are people so use to fast food that they can't have a relaxing meal. I spend time in Italy several years ago and the group I was with was taken out to dinner several times and dinner was a 3 to 4 hour event most nights.

 

Michael

[Don Haynes]

Keep in mind the international crews income is based mostly on the tips received, whereas the American crews are being paid an American salary under American labor laws.

 

I also think Americans crews would be easier to keep if the cruises were 5 day cruises with 2 days off each week than working everyday for a month.

[RSWBADGER]

Where did they go wrong..... hum, a two hour dinner would tick me off. My stateroom not being cleaned would tick me off. Having to wait a extra ordinary amount of time to get a table would tick me off. Crew members who don't want to be working would tick me off..... and the many other complaints that I have read in the reviews. I don't want to be ticked on my vacation, other passengers don't want me ticked on my vacation, so I will and have avoided NCLA like the plauge. I'm sure that I am not alone in my decision.

 

Jingle

 

I wouldn't be making comments or reviews on something I really don't know anything about! Have you cruised NCLA? Have you experienced this? If you read all of these reviews you will find most NCLA cruisers have a great experience, most people tend to write reviews when they have complaints.

 

Having said all of that I just returned this past Sunday from the Pride of Aloha. We ate twice in the Main Dining Rooms, no wait at all, walked up and were seated immediately, dinner took 50 minutes with a bottle of wine each night. We had reservations in the specialty restaurants on other nights, table was ready at our booked time. Servers were very pleasant, it's nice to share conversation with people from different areas on the US.

 

Our stateroom was always cleaned when we were away, staff very pleasant. Smile and someone will smile back. Don't form these opinions and preach about them without experiencing them.

[kdg51]

We were on the Sky just before it went to dry dock to become the 1st NCLA ship after the Pride of America had some set backs. :eek: We became friendly with the Hotel Manager and discussed some of the problems that they were encountering switching to the American crew and all of the costs involved. I believe he said that the payroll was increasing buy something like 500% and that they would be required to provide benefits to the crew also. My thoughts were that we had spoiled our American kids and most would have a hard time adapting to the long hours and hard work. He said in time they would be fine...but for one reason or another he was not there long enough to experience those changes. Why NCL let such a great person go to another cruiseline is the big question? One night we found an American waiter, Brian from Hawaii that did an awesome job with his assistant Denny keeping the food coming so that we were never waiting for the next course and out in plenty of time to make the show. We eventually started requesting a table in his section and it was worth the wait. There were some kids who could turn breakfast into a 2 hour meal so we tried to stay away from them. I've never been but most people who went with NCL to Hawaii before the American ships said that they were happy to no longer make the long trip to Fanning Island.

[seahorse]

I wonder how much truth is in the story about holding a job fair in Philly and not one person showed up. NMnita

 

Nita, If you read that correctly the word was "sign" up.........not show up. They had 3 different sessions.

 

The article was in the Philly newspaper and it was quite revealing...ie; offering an experienced chef $7.50 an hr. when he is making $14.00 an hour now. I could go on and on. I wouldn`t let my son or daughter work for NCLA.

 

They could not hire nor keep good talent with what they offer:(

[fabby50]

I haven't seen anyone write about the number of people who cruise on the three ships per week - what's it got to be 6,000 to 7,000 per week? Then, when they come back, the very small subset who get on this board and post, and like another poster said, then look at the reviews, and a very, very small percentage actually complain about anything.

 

Also, if you compare what people are complaining about to reviews of other ships, I see a lot of the same comments about other ships and their personel. I like what the professional cruise critic wrote about her experience:

 

"On my trip, I encountered many positive, cheerful attitudes and, yes, a handful of poor ones. But here's the rub: On any other cruise line, I may have noticed blips in service and perhaps brushed them off (or, if a problem was serious or persistent, spoken to the appropriate manager). But with NCL America, which has garnered so much attention for service-related issues -- here at Cruise Critic and in other media outlets -- the natural "Ah ha!" tendency was to conclude that I'd uncovered some flaw in the system, even it was a trivial mix-up."

[newmexicoNita]

I just don't get what the problem is with a two hour dinner. Are people so use to fast food that they can't have a relaxing meal. I spend time in Italy several years ago and the group I was with was taken out to dinner several times and dinner was a 3 to 4 hour event most nights.

 

Michael

Good point Michael. I have never found dining on any cruise ship much less than 90 minutes and if I did, I would feel someone was rushing me too fast. This is part of the total cruising experience. Of course in today's world most people do not know how to slow down. NMnita

[newmexicoNita]

I wouldn't be making comments or reviews on something I really don't know anything about! Have you cruised NCLA? Have you experienced this? If you read all of these reviews you will find most NCLA cruisers have a great experience, most people tend to write reviews when they have complaints.

 

Having said all of that I just returned this past Sunday from the Pride of Aloha. We ate twice in the Main Dining Rooms, no wait at all, walked up and were seated immediately, dinner took 50 minutes with a bottle of wine each night. We had reservations in the specialty restaurants on other nights, table was ready at our booked time. Servers were very pleasant, it's nice to share conversation with people from different areas on the US.

 

Our stateroom was always cleaned when we were away, staff very pleasant. Smile and someone will smile back. Don't form these opinions and preach about them without experiencing them.

Glad to hear you had a positive experience: I, personally haven't cruised NCLA and probably won't cause I am not a huge Hawaii fan thus any opinions I have are not first hand. I have yet to meet anyone, client or friend that has not been fairly or completely satisfied with their NCLA experience. The negatives are only what I have read here. NMNita

[newmexicoNita]

Nita, If you read that correctly the word was "sign" up.........not show up. They had 3 different sessions.

 

The article was in the Philly newspaper and it was quite revealing...ie; offering an experienced chef $7.50 an hr. when he is making $14.00 an hour now. I could go on and on. I wouldn`t let my son or daughter work for NCLA.

 

They could not hire nor keep good talent with what they offer:(

sorry, I did miss that. I would love to see the article. Again, as I have said I am a skeptic by nature plus married to a guy that was in the media business for 50 years. I believe about 1/2 of what I read. LOL ve

[Globaliser]

I haven't seen anyone write about the number of people who cruise on the three ships per week - what's it got to be 6,000 to 7,000 per week? Then, when they come back, the very small subset who get on this board and post, and like another poster said, then look at the reviews, and a very, very small percentage actually complain about anything.

I think that this is now fair comment, purely from the passenger's point of view.

 

But NCLA's business problems remain. The operation continues to bleed red ink. The OP's question remains as pertinent as it ever was.

[MrPete]

I wonder what this will all mean for my beloved SS United States?

[hotspur]

If she is that is as idiotic as the gal at Sonic asking if you want tater tots.

I think it's idiotic to describe freestyle cruising as "no better than the idiots at Sonic asking me 'you want tater tots with that?'"