Ocean Liner v. Cruise Ship

[kalypso333]

I will be on the QM2 in May for a TA from NYC to Southampton. After reading about potential weather conditions, it got me curious about reposition cruises from FL to the Mediterranian. In particular I was looking at the midsize HAL ship Zuiderdam's reposition in March '08. How do these type of ships handle crossing the Atlantic at that latitude? Would they be able to cross the Northern Atlantic "comfortably"?

 

Just Curious.

[flag fan]

Everything I've read indicates that the Queen Mary 2 would be more stable because it is an ocean liner than ships designed to be ocean cruisers, but I have not crossed on other ships so I can't give first-hand knowledge. Maybe someone on the HAL board could give some advice on this.

[NovaScotian]

All eastbound repositioning cruises I have looked into stay far south in the Spring to avoid the North Atlantic conditions and in the Autumn wait till after the huricane season for westbound.

 

Joel

[guernseyguy]

Would they be able to cross the Northern Atlantic "comfortably"?

 

Probably because:

 

eastbound repositioning cruises... stay far south in the Spring to avoid the North Atlantic conditions and in the Autumn wait till after the huricane season for westbound.

 

I have done two crossings on 'Cruise Ships' (Golden Princess & Brilliance of the Seas) where we had calm weather and a fine crossing. The only exception was a swell for a couple of days on Golden Princess where the cruise ships rather blunt bow meant a shudder was sent through the ship each time she hit a swell. I have heard that Golden Princess does not handle bad weather that well (more shuddering), but then why should she - she's not specifically designed for it.

 

One voyage some of us are awaiting with interest is QV's January 2008 Trans Atlantic crossing - her design is virtually identical to Zuiderdam, and she is crossing at a time when rough weather may be expected - hence the reason they have built an extra day into the schedule so if they have to slow down a bit they can and still arrive in New York in time. For perspective the old Queens and the QE2 (when introduced) crossed in 5 nights, the QE2/QM2 now do it in 6, and the QV will take 7.

 

If you want to see a cruise ship in a storm (in the Med!) see this:

 

 

Peter

[Fifer]

Peter,

 

Very scary clip! It would certainly make me think twice about a 'repositioning' cruise; the weather being so hard to predict with any degree of accuracy at the time of booking!

 

Gavin

[pnhmrk]

It would certainly make me think twice about a 'repositioning' cruise

 

If you're going to cross the Atlantic in anything other than a flat calm you really need a ship that's been designed for it. It either needs to be very well stabilised (think QE2 or QM2) or accept that you will be thrown about but have the reassurance of a solid ship (think QE):)

[pepperrn]

. It either needs to be very well stabilised (think QE2 or QM2) or accept that you will be thrown about but have the reassurance of a solid ship (think QE):)

 

.... Solid Ship.. Think QM2 as well as QE2 (as you well know). As has been reported, QM2 is a very good (poss. best) sea boat. By most accounts, she seems to be better in a heavy sea than her "half pint" sister, but both are streets ahead of anything else.

 

As for the video, looks like fun to me (and brought back a few memories of some storms I've "enjoyed"), but steward, look, I've spilt my drink!

[pnhmrk]

.... Solid Ship.. Think QM2 as well as QE2

 

I must admit I was thinking of the exceptions - I was imagining QV going transatlantic in mid winter:D

[pepperrn]

I must admit I was thinking of the exceptions - I was imagining QV going transatlantic in mid winter:D

 

Not a pretty sight, I'd rather not imagine it! I hope the carpets clean up well for the next set of passengers! If they are very lucky the weather will be kind, if not, I wouldn't mind being on the QE2 riding the waves well (as she always has) and looking across the storm to the QV, being thrown this way and that, green water over the bridge... one hell of a ride!

[patwell]

.... Solid Ship.. Think QM2 as well as QE2 (as you well know). As has been reported, QM2 is a very good (poss. best) sea boat. By most accounts, she seems to be better in a heavy sea than her "half pint" sister, but both are streets ahead of anything else.

 

As for the video, looks like fun to me (and brought back a few memories of some storms I've "enjoyed"), but steward, look, I've spilt my drink!

 

Hi Pepper...good luck finding your steward for a refill!! i seem to remember a similar October crossing eons ago in a much smaller ship...it was interesting to say the least.

 

Cheers, Penny

[Kindlychap]

Not a pretty sight, I'd rather not imagine it! I hope the carpets clean up well for the next set of passengers! If they are very lucky the weather will be kind, if not, I wouldn't mind being on the QE2 riding the waves well (as she always has) and looking across the storm to the QV, being thrown this way and that, green water over the bridge... one hell of a ride!

 

This scenario has the potential for a very amusing crossing!

 

Matthew

[guernseyguy]

looking across the storm to the QV, being thrown this way and that, green water over the bridge... one hell of a ride!

 

Given the QV is stabilised, I suspect she'll handle the rolling pretty well - and as she's bigger than the QE2 should also be quite stable. That bow of hers will force her to slow down a bit - and may judder when hitting the swell. I think the Queens' Grill Restaurant will move! Given she's 12th in the line there must be some people out there who have been through a storm in a Spirit/Vista?

 

Peter

[Lanky Lad]

Here is a video I took on QE2 last September. Shot from the TV in my cabin. http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2i8kktu

[Post Captain]

All eastbound repositioning cruises I have looked into stay far south in the Spring to avoid the North Atlantic conditions and in the Autumn wait till after the huricane season for westbound.

 

Joel

Joel, Not all transatlantic repositioning crossings do so, by any means: e.g., Constellation's 2006 eastbound from New York (well, okay, New Jersey) to Dover by way of Le Havre, & her forthcoming westbound in late September from Dover to New York by way of Ireland and New Brunswick/Newfoundland--both most decidedly true North Atlantic routes!

 

The southern route is strictly for lubberly cruisers, not crossers.;)

 

Mind you, like most here, I'd prefer to be on the QE2, not the QV, next January--if only to be able to watch that green water slosh over the Vicky's bridge as she lumbers along at a measly 18 knots trying to play catch-up with the Lizzie.:D

 

Cheers,

John

[guernseyguy]

Vicky's ... lumbers along at a measly 18 knots trying to play catch-up with the Lizzie.:D

 

John,

 

I did the sums a few days ago and think she has to average a bit over 20 knots to get across in time....so she has about 3 knots in hand vs her top speed if she does hit bad weather - but she can't spend too long at 18 knots if she wants to get there on time - imagine - your maiden arrival in New York late!:o

 

Peter

[Wadadli1]

Probably because:

 

 

 

I have done two crossings on 'Cruise Ships' (Golden Princess & Brilliance of the Seas) where we had calm weather and a fine crossing. The only exception was a swell for a couple of days on Golden Princess where the cruise ships rather blunt bow meant a shudder was sent through the ship each time she hit a swell. I have heard that Golden Princess does not handle bad weather that well (more shuddering), but then why should she - she's not specifically designed for it.

 

One voyage some of us are awaiting with interest is QV's January 2008 Trans Atlantic crossing - her design is virtually identical to Zuiderdam, and she is crossing at a time when rough weather may be expected - hence the reason they have built an extra day into the schedule so if they have to slow down a bit they can and still arrive in New York in time. For perspective the old Queens and the QE2 (when introduced) crossed in 5 nights, the QE2/QM2 now do it in 6, and the QV will take 7.

 

If you want to see a cruise ship in a storm (in the Med!) see this:

 

 

Peter

 

Goodness, Peter, that one's a bit unfair. That video was featured in numerous places on the Internet all last week, and it wasn't in the Mediterranean, but somewhere around Thailand and a cyclone changed course and the the ship and weather clashed.

 

Doesn't mean one would rather have a cruiser over a crosser, but that video was put up just because of its drama. Even a co-worker of mine showed it to me, and he's got no interest in any kind of ship at all. He was just loving the excitement. And I'd already seen it twice when he made me come and watch.

 

My personal favorite video it is the one about the ship that was sinking and the captain and crew took the lifeboats and abandoned ship, leaving the passengers to swim for themselves!

[guernseyguy]

it wasn't in the Mediterranean, but somewhere around Thailand and a cyclone changed course and the the ship and weather clashed.

 

Nope, it was in the Med in 2005:

 

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20050215/ai_n9534444

 

Peter

[Mustangs]

Hello,

 

We have sailed both the QM2, and a HAL Vista class ship (Noordam) in storm conditions in the Atlantic. With no question, the QM2 is far superior at handling rough sea conditions.

 

The Noordam encountered force 10 gales with swells of up to 30 feet. She was forced to slow to under 15 knots to allow use of the stabilisers, and we arrived in New York 5 hours late (she could not make up the lost time). Side to side roll was not a problem, however, fore/aft pitch was extreme. For example, while standing in the Crow's Nest deck 10 forward watching the waves hit the glass, one could actually "lift off" the floor as the ship "dove" due to the swell. Made it quite interesting! Many green passengers!

 

Alan

[pnhmrk]

Made it quite interesting! Many green passengers!

 

It does sound like fun:) maybe I should book a trip on the Vicky after all:D

[Post Captain]

John,

 

I did the sums a few days ago and think she has to average a bit over 20 knots to get across in time....so she has about 3 knots in hand vs her top speed if she does hit bad weather - but she can't spend too long at 18 knots if she wants to get there on time - imagine - your maiden arrival in New York late!:o

 

Peter

Peter,

 

Indeed! And your calculations probably are for the direct route. What if the Commodore decides to steer the QV south toward the Azores, a la Captain Rynd, before heading west? Fairly high odds of that happening, I should think. Meanwhile, the QE2 will be straining at the leash to show off her speed and her seakeeping abilities.:)

 

Cheers,

John

[Kindlychap]

Peter,

 

Indeed! And your calculations probably are for the direct route. What if the Commodore decides to steer the QV south toward the Azores, a la Captain Rynd, before heading west? Fairly high odds of that happening, I should think. Meanwhile, the QE2 will be straining at the leash to show off her speed and her seakeeping abilities.:)

 

Cheers,

John

 

Surely they don't have the luxury of that option?

 

They've more or less got to go direct!

 

Or be late......

 

Matthew

[Wadadli1]

Nope, it was in the Med in 2005:

 

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20050215/ai_n9534444

 

Peter

 

Ahh, that's what it is--I'm talking about the Oceanos, a different ship.

 

Are you saying it's happened more than once?!

 

I'll go look for the link momentarily.

 

PS: Here we go! Quite an exciting time was had by all, save the captain and crew. Theirs came later.

 

[travel-to-go]

Oh my god.

I hope those two got the highest citations a country could give for their bravery and level headedness. And I hope the courts martial for the crew included hanging. Or maybe keel hauling. Perhaps dragging them naked behind a ship.

I wish this were a horrid April Fools joke, but I know someone mentioned it earlier. I don't remember ever hearing about this. Or maybe I forgot. (How could one forget!

 

Words cannot express....How awful. Does anyone know the end of the story?

What happened to the crew? The ship? Was it salvaged? or lost?

Unbelievable.

[travel-to-go]

Oh my god.

I hope those two got the highest citations a country could give for their bravery and level headedness. And I hope the courts martial for the crew included hanging. Or maybe keel hauling. Perhaps dragging them naked behind a ship.

I wish this were a horrid April Fools joke, but I know someone mentioned it earlier. I don't remember ever hearing about this. Or maybe I forgot. (How could one forget!

 

Words cannot express....How awful. Does anyone know the end of the story?

What happened to the crew? The ship? Was it salvaged? or lost?

Unbelievable.

[guernseyguy]

What if the Commodore decides to steer the QV south toward the Azores, a la Captain Rynd, before heading west?

 

John,

 

As Matthew has pointed out, I doubt the QV's Master has the luxury of adding 400nm (20 hrs at 20 knots), to his track as the QE2's did on the January 06 crossing and still arrive on time. And why would Commodore Warner be onboard - Paul Wright is the Captain is he not? Now some cavil that taking the longer, smoother route is not the 'Cunard way' - I disagree - if your ship can go fast, why not take advantage of the fact? I guess it depends on whether you prefer it slow and rough or fast and smooth.......

 

Peter