What makes HAL a PREMIUM cruise line?

[Orcrone]

In a number of threads, mainly ones discussing how HAL deals with problems, I keep hearing HAL referred to as a 'premium' cruise line. Now I don't have a lot of experience. I have only been on three cruises, not including an RCCL cruise in 1990. I exclude that one because I get the impression all lines have come down a notch or two since then.

 

I paid about $90 a night for an outside cabin on a 10 day cruise out of Norfolk and a little over $100/night for a balcony on the Zuiderdam during spring break. That's hardly a premium price.

 

I felt my dining room service was excellent on Carnival. On my Zuiderdam cruise I would say it was about the same, but it was fairly forgettable on my Maasdam cruise. I realize this is purely subjective and a small sampling.

 

The food on the two cruise lines were pretty comparable.

 

The cabin on my Carnival cruise was larger than on either HAL cruise, with all other aspects of the accomodations being similar.

 

The only things I can really point to are fewer announcements and less activities by the pool on HAL. Also, the Maasdam was much more tastefully decorated with artwork and had a little more space per passenger than Carnival.

 

However, I don't know whether this makes it a premium cruise line. Based on my rather limited experience it seems to me that HAL is another mass marketed cruise line focusing on a different demographic than other cruise lines. As such I wouldn't expect a premium cruise line response to problems from a mass marketed cruise line.

 

I'm not trying to raise the ire of the HAL faithful. I've sailed them twice and had a very good time. Just wondering what makes it a premium line. And if it's not any more premium than RCI, NCL, etc. then maybe we shouldn't expect more from their home office.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Good question. At one time I would have agreed that HAL was a premium cruise line. JMO

 

I am thinking about this.

[jhannah]

I think "premium" is appropos. Not luxury, but a cut above many others.

 

What makes them that? To me it's a combination of the elegant ships and outstanding crew. I'd give the crew a bit more weight than the asthetics of the ships themselves. The Indonesian and Filipino crews are simply outstanding in their efforts to make each guest's experience top notch.

[Orcrone]

I think "premium" is appropos. Not luxury, but a cut above many others.

 

What makes them that? To me it's a combination of the elegant ships and outstanding crew. I'd give the crew a bit more weight than the asthetics of the ships themselves. The Indonesian and Filipino crews are simply outstanding in their efforts to make each guest's experience top notch.

Interesting idea, distinguishing between premium and luxury. No one is going to suggest that HAL is comparable to Crystal, but calling it premium to distinguish it from other lines.

 

The crew has been very good, but I guess I've been lucky in that I experienced it on Carnival and RCCL also.

[caviargal]

The devil is in the details.

 

- Sommeliers still serve the wine on HAL

- A cheese plate is an assortment of yummy cheeses, not chunks of swiss and cheddar

- I was actually served saltines with my $40 ounce of caviar on Carnival:eek: no other accompaniments at all

- At the "Wine Bar" on Carnival, the wine steward asked me whether Pinot Noir was white or red so she would know where to find it:rolleyes:

- I am provided Elemis amenities on HAL

- Real towels in the public restrooms

- Fresh flowers everywhere

- Ships spacious for the number of passengers aboard

- A dress code that does not have to prohibit "torn jeans"

 

I did not find the food or service memorable on Carnival and really disliked the antics and invasive announcements at dinner in the dining room. I use them as an example since the OP mentions the line.

[SUMMERDIGGER]

As I was reading your post , I kept thinking that I could have written that myself.

I was on the Noordam 4-11-07 and was not very impressed. I took two cruises on Carnival before ( one on Carnival Triumph Feb 2005 , another on Carnival Liberty Feb 2006 )

 

The Noordam is a very elegant ship ,with a superb crew . Her buffet is better than Carnival's.

The dining room has excelent decoration and the people serving you are outstanding. The food doesn't match . It is average and inferior to Carnival . Some bad dishes are served there ( Frutti di Mari , French Onion Soup , braised ribs , ox tail soup , were really bad ).

 

The cabins and varandas on Carnival were bigger , but the bed on the Noordam was better.

Because Hal serve an older clientelle, the entertainment and activities reflected that. They were far better on Carnival . By midnight the Noordam was almost dead. Things were going on at Carnival until 3 or 4 in the morning.

 

The cruise on the Noordam was good during the day , but boring at night.

The cruises on Carnival were lively and fun all the time

[Odd Ball]

Free Ice Cream ?:rolleyes:

[hammybee]

I think "premium" is appropos. Not luxury, but a cut above many others.

 

What makes them that? To me it's a combination of the elegant ships and outstanding crew. I'd give the crew a bit more weight than the asthetics of the ships themselves. The Indonesian and Filipino crews are simply outstanding in their efforts to make each guest's experience top notch.

 

Most pax , especially new cruisers, choose by price when looking at hyper- competitive intineraries, Caribbean, Alaska, Mexico and increasingly, the Med.

 

When sailing those intineraries, HAL is a mass-marketed cruise line and goes toe-to -toe on price versus value for the majority of their cabins, inside and outside, with all the other mass -marketed cruise lines. It is the nature of the beast.

 

There are differences within mass-marketed cruise lines and this is where preference comes into play. The difference for me is the size of the ship, classic style and most importantly, the onboard crew.

 

Alaska is HAL's back yard and does a better job than anyone there, because it pioneered and developed the market. In the Caribbean, HAL distinguishes itself with it's private island and ammenities.

 

It seems to me, that HAL becomes a true premium cruise line, as it relates to the Prinsendam ship and on its longer voyages and these experiences are vastly different than common 7-12 day sails. On these sails, HAL cannot usually rely upon competing for large groups to fill its cabins. The pax onboard these sails are there because they want to be there and on HAL.

 

I have yet to see Carnival, NCL or RCL do a world voyage or any segment thereof, let alone the plethora of other unique and longer intineraries, so common to HAL. This and pax preference is what has and will continue to distinguish HAL from the ordinary.

[fcorey]

The devil is in the details.

 

- Sommeliers still serve the wine on HAL

- A cheese plate is an assortment of yummy cheeses, not chunks of swiss and cheddar

- I was actually served saltines with my $40 ounce of caviar on Carnival:eek: no other accompaniments at all

- At the "Wine Bar" on Carnival, the wine steward asked me whether Pinot Noir was white or red so she would know where to find it:rolleyes:

- I am provided Elemis amenities on HAL

- Real towels in the public restrooms

- Fresh flowers everywhere

- Ships spacious for the number of passengers aboard

- A dress code that does not have to prohibit "torn jeans"

 

I did not find the food or service memorable on Carnival and really disliked the antics and invasive announcements at dinner in the dining room. I use them as an example since the OP mentions the line.

 

great post and details. I never really thought too much about this. To me Oceania, or Crystal, etc were premium. When I book I always do a search based on days and location and include all cruise lines. What I have discovered is that HAL is in some case quiete a bit less for same itinerary as NCL or RCCL. Carnival is usually the cheapest. I know that with our Noordam booking the equivalent from NCL was $500 per person more for the same type of room.

I like HAL for its tradition, quality, crew, but I dont consider it premium, maybe more at the top end of mass market. But as I've said I'm new here, maybe they are slipping... thats just my 2 cents

[Old As Dirt Mom]

The devil is in the details.

 

- Sommeliers still serve the wine on HAL

- A cheese plate is an assortment of yummy cheeses, not chunks of swiss and cheddar

- I was actually served saltines with my $40 ounce of caviar on Carnival:eek: no other accompaniments at all

- At the "Wine Bar" on Carnival, the wine steward asked me whether Pinot Noir was white or red so she would know where to find it:rolleyes:

- I am provided Elemis amenities on HAL

- Real towels in the public restrooms

- Fresh flowers everywhere

- Ships spacious for the number of passengers aboard

- A dress code that does not have to prohibit "torn jeans"

 

.....

 

I'm a HAL newby myself, so maybe I don't have all the right info, and maybe some of the other lines offer this as well, but to CaviarGal's list I would add the following, which I observed on my HAL cruises:

 

*Live orchids on every table in the Lido

*Fresh squeezed oj for breakfast

*Bathrobes for guest use hanging in every cabin

*Bowl of fresh fruit in every cabin

*Choice of hot entrees for room service breakfast

*Beach towels available as you disembark for pax use at tropical port stops

*Handy dandy cloth tote bags for all pax

*Umbrellas handed out for all pax use on bow during Panama Canal transit and also for use in rainy ports

*A beautiful library with thousands of book titles to choose from, and comfy leather chairs in which to enjoy them

*An art collection on each ship worth a couple of million dollars

*Pax able to remain in cabin until disembarkation on final day

*Black and White Ball for all pax on New Year's Eve with complimentary champagne toast

* Renowned guest chefs on selected cruises

*Culinary classes and demonstrations on all cruises

*Onboard naturalists, Hoonah Native Interpreters, Artists in Residence Program, and Glacier Bay Park Rangers on Alaska cruises (although I realize that some cruise lines offer some of these features, do any other lines offer ALL of these?)

*Explorations Series Guest Lecturers

 

Any more that I've missed?

[hammybee]

[quote=middle-aged mom;10102050

Any more that I've missed?

 

Although you may be newer than some, you consistently prove yourself to be an astute observer of the details that make a difference, for so many.

 

Here is my humble contribution to your list:

 

The take-home tile as a rememberance of the cruise vacation, and

Express Disembarkation, if desired

[luvnorway]

This has probably been discussed ad infinitum on previous threads, but seemed worth posting in the context of this thread.

 

We've done close to 500 days on HAL over a span of about 15 yrs and have observed some signs of HAL becoming less 'Premium' recently - presumably in an effort to appeal to younger passengers/more families etc in order to keep the line alive.

 

An eg. is the 'Chef's Dinner' at which the Dining Room staff are forced to parade and act as jugglers etc. to the detriment of their usually dignified, upscale service, and the string quartet mimic playing music on artificial vegetables!!

If I wanted this kind of atmosphere, I'd sail on Carnival.

IMHO, I hope Chef's Dinner goes the way of 'The Running of the Moose' (assuming it's dead - haven't seen it lately).

BTW, we talked to both our dining room stewards and head dining room steward on our most recent cruise and all admitted (off the record) that they disliked having to perform. They suggested we state our our views on our comment card (which we did) - an indication, BTW, that they believe they are read and have some influence (another frequent discussion topic).

 

This is not to imply I'm opposed to any performance in the Dining Room. The traditional Indonesian Farewell Song is the nicest crew presentation I've ever seen on any cruise line - words should be printed on the menus as they used to be. Take a look at how enthusiatically the crew perform this event in comparison with the Chef's Dinner parades etc.

 

I've read enough previous threads to realize many people consider Chef's Dinner a highlight of their cruise. I have no criticism of the food served, nor am I trying to hijack this thread. When discussing what features make HAL a 'premium' line, I simply submit that the performance accompanying Chef's Dinner isn't one of them.

[caviargal]

IMO, most cruise lines have had to lower their standards/change direction in order to compete. The HAL I cruised in the early 80s is not the HAL of today. Nor is RCI, NCL or Celebrity.

 

Larger ships, staff reductions and other cost cutting have forced the mass market cruise lines to try and be all things to all people, so as not to alienate anyone. All lines want their share of the increasing family market, group market and first time cruiser market. It is unfortunate but this trend is likely to continue and cause further erosion in the overall quality of cruising.

 

I believe that in the not too distant future, the basic model for cruise ships will be a floating hotel where buffets are included, along with basic entertainment and everything else, including a sit down meal, will be extra.

 

What I do believe is that, at this time, HAL still maintains some of the formality and tradition that won me over to cruising in the first place many years ago and which other cruise lines have clearly abandoned altogether. RCI offers floating amusement parks, NCL is a come as you are cruise line with a floating food court and Celebrity is now building bigger ships which will force them to change their style as well in order to broaden appeal.

 

HAL might not be as "premium" as they used to be, but at least they still make a good effort in that direction.

[hammybee]

 

We've done close to 500 days on HAL over a span of about 15 yrs and have observed some signs of HAL becoming less 'Premium' recently - presumably in an effort to appeal to younger passengers/more families etc in order to keep the line alive.

 

We have been sailing HAL for nearly as long as you but have also sailed most other mass-marketed cruise lines.

 

The competition for pax, especially on the hyper-competitive intineraries, means that the price of a cabin is determined by what the competition charges, not what a pax is willing to pay. It's the hyper-competition that makes cruising more affordable than it has ever been. It is also the reason that some may perceive the experience of cruising, like flying, has been and may continue to be diluted.

 

So many of the same concerns, less refined pax (a term I find offensive) , children, groups, fewer onboard crew, and overall quality appear on the boards of all cruise lines, including the luxury ones.

 

Cruising has and will continue to evolve and cannot be compared to what it once was, on any cruise line. This does not mean, at least to me, that there are not numerous positive aspects of cruising today, than none of us could dream about ,15-20 years ago.

[gizmo]

There are lots of nice things mentioned but little by little things are going away.

 

For instance, fresh flowers. KK mentioned that she saw some silk ones on the Volendam Sure enough, when I sailed this past Dec, some of the dispalys were silk. In the past they were all fresh.

 

I think I read that the fresh towels in the public rest rooms were gone on someone's cruise. (I could be wrong about this)

 

Hal still has some nice things. I just hope they keep them. :)

 

LOL at the mention of the Running of the Moose. It was silly but the dessert was heavenly !!! I think Ruth C would agree about the dessert. ;)

[RedmondCruiser]

Is Holland America a premium cruise line ?? YES Though I have never sailed with Carnival I have sailed on most every other line, and I prefer Holland America as the best value in cruising.

 

Just got off a 19 day cruise on Princess. We had a great time and they do a very good job but they do fall short of Holland America on almost every level.

 

All lines are cutting back to make up for increased costs, but thats life, and as Bill Gates says "Lifes not fair - get used to it"

 

My feeling is that I would gladly pay higher fairs if HAL did not denigrate the product, but in todays competative world price and profit will always rule.

 

They confinue to have my loyalty - but that is not openended.

[bepsf]

Most pax , especially new cruisers, choose by price when looking at hyper- competitive intineraries, Caribbean, Alaska, Mexico and increasingly, the Med.

 

When sailing those intineraries, HAL is a mass-marketed cruise line and goes toe-to -toe on price versus value for the majority of their cabins, inside and outside, with all the other mass -marketed cruise lines. It is the nature of the beast.

 

There are differences within mass-marketed cruise lines and this is where preference comes into play. The difference for me is the size of the ship, classic style and most importantly, the onboard crew.

 

Alaska is HAL's back yard and does a better job than anyone there, because it pioneered and developed the market. In the Caribbean, HAL distinguishes itself with it's private island and ammenities.

 

It seems to me, that HAL becomes a true premium cruise line, as it relates to the Prinsendam ship and on its longer voyages and these experiences are vastly different than common 7-12 day sails. On these sails, HAL cannot usually rely upon competing for large groups to fill its cabins. The pax onboard these sails are there because they want to be there and on HAL.

 

I have yet to see Carnival, NCL or RCL do a world voyage or any segment thereof, let alone the plethora of other unique and longer intineraries, so common to HAL. This and pax preference is what has and will continue to distinguish HAL from the ordinary.

 

Hammy--

I agree with you on certain aspects re: Prinsendam and exotic/longer itineraries...

However, I don't buy the excuse that HAL by necessity has to "compete" with RCCL, NCL and Carnival on the commoditized Caribbean/Mexico/Alaska itineraries - that's just plain foolishness on the part of HAL management.

HAL could maintain higher ticket prices in these markets in 3 ways:

1. Offer longer and/or more exotic itineraries in the 3 "Commoditized" markets. There's no need for 8 ships in Alaska doing their own version of the same two 7-day itineraries, or 4 ships doing the 7-day Florida-to-Caribbean grind with the obligatory stop at St Thomas. Offer more 10-12 day itineraries, hit off-the-beaten-path ports such as Monterey California, St Barts, Aruba, Haines Alaska - and establish more unusual ports of embarcation (San Francisco, New Orleans, San Juan...) to differentiate yourself from the mass-market.

2. Stop competing with Carnival - Direct competition with a mass-market corporate cousin is lunacy. Offer a premium product in every aspect, do it to the best of your ability, market yourself to your premium customer, and price yourself appropriately. The Oasis/Loft aspect of the SOE for the S and R-Class ships is widely regarded as a flop and a waste of Millions of dollars in an effort to gain the mainstream family market - those dollars could have been used elsewhere to enhance the Premium aspects of the line.

3. If your company is having trouble maintaining ticket prices and profitability - Stop adding capacity. There are fewer Hyatts than there are Travelodges for a very good reason: the premium market is, by it's very nature, smaller than the budget market. CCL should have probably have stopped ordering new ships for HAL after Noordam if not Oosterdam - and waited for premium-priced demand to catch up to capacity.

[fcorey]

Hammy--

 

I agree with you on certain aspects re: Prinsendam and exotic/longer itineraries...

 

However, I don't buy the excuse that HAL by necessity has to "compete" with RCCL, NCL and Carnival on the commoditized Caribbean/Mexico/Alaska itineraries - that's just plain foolishness on the part of HAL management.

 

 

HAL could maintain higher ticket prices in these markets in 3 ways:

 

1. Offer longer and/or more exotic itineraries in the 3 "Commoditized" markets. There's no need for 8 ships in Alaska doing their own version of the same two 7-day itineraries, or 4 ships doing the 7-day Florida-to-Caribbean grind with the obligatory stop at St Thomas. Offer more 10-12 day itineraries, hit off-the-beaten-path ports such as Monterey California, St Barts, Aruba, Haines Alaska - and establish more unusual ports of embarcation (San Francisco, New Orleans, San Juan...) to differentiate yourself from the mass-market.

 

2. Stop competing with Carnival - Direct competition with a mass-market corporate cousin is lunacy. Offer a premium product in every aspect, do it to the best of your ability, market yourself to your premium customer, and price yourself appropriately. The Oasis/Loft aspect of the SOE for the S and R-Class ships is widely regarded as a flop and a waste of Millions of dollars in an effort to gain the mainstream family market - those dollars could have been used elsewhere to enhance the Premium aspects of the line.

 

3. If your company is having trouble maintaining ticket prices and profitability - Stop adding capacity. There are fewer Hyatts than there are Travelodges for a very good reason: the premium market is, by it's very nature, smaller than the budget market. CCL should have probably have stopped ordering new ships for HAL after Noordam if not Oosterdam - and waited for premium-priced demand to catch up to capacity.

 

Brian, didnt the company have some financial trouble in the past, maybe that is part of what is driving their hyper-competitive efforts. personally i'd pay 10% more, but I'm probably in the minority. I usually book a VA-VC room, with the exception of Eurodam where we have a suite. I do agree about other ports, I've sailed out of New Orleans, prior to katrina they had a decent port facility there, not sure if its still standing. I also agree that there are too many ships in Alaska.

I'd like to see more unique itineraries, different ports etc. They should also face facts that they arent going to win the family cruiser dollars like Carnival, Disney, and RCCL in particular. Its a different demographic. Carnival corporation should do a better job of positioning their brands and play on the unique features of each.

[hammybee]

Brian:

Last I counted, there were more than 30 mass-marketed cruise ships sailing in ALaska, this summer. Boggles my mind that there could be this many people ready/willing/able to sail in Alaska, this summer. I can only assume that cruise lines know more about the ALaskan market than I do, and I certainly hope they do.

 

It does seem perplexing that cruise lines with common ownership would compete for the same pax and this happens in other businesses, too.

Perhaps this is part of a larger strategy to beat down the non- family competition, through domination.

 

The 7 day cruise is what most family vacationers want and this probably limits the intineraries.

 

Like condos in most markets, the cruiseship business seems overbuilt to me and yet, they all seem to continue to order new builds. It's like a dog chasing its tale. I do not get it.

[jhannah]

Very thoughtful points, Brian. Those who rise to the top in ANY industry are those who differentiate themselves from the pack. How nice it would be if HAL would halt capacity increases and focus on the guests' experience.

[fcorey]

Brian:

Last I counted, there were more than 30 mass-marketed cruise ships sailing in ALaska, this summer. Boggles my mind that there could be this many people ready/willing/able to sail in Alaska, this summer. I can only assume that cruise lines know more about the ALaskan market than I do, and I certainly hope they do.

 

It does seem perplexing that cruise lines with common ownership would compete for the same pax and this happens in other businesses, too.

Perhaps this is part of a larger strategy to beat down the non- family competition, through domination.

 

The 7 day cruise is what most family vacationers want and this probably limits the intineraries.

 

Like condos in most markets, the cruiseship business seems overbuilt to me and yet, they all seem to continue to order new builds. It's like a dog chasing its tale. I do not get it.

 

I read a quote recently attributed to the head of NCL that said that they wanted to have the youngest fleet, meaning newest ships. With that comes HUGE debt. at an average $500M per ship, and RCCL is spending around $800M on each of the Freedom and Liberty ships, the Genesis ships are projected to cost $1.2Billion each. Thats insane.

[bepsf]

It does seem perplexing that cruise lines with common ownership would compete for the same pax and this happens in other businesses, too.

 

Yes - it reminds me of what happenned w/ GM in the 80's - where Buick, Pontiac and Oldsmobile sold essentially rebadged Chevrolets - all GM brands suffered and lost market share as a result...

 

The 7 day cruise is what most family vacationers want and this probably limits the intineraries.

 

Again, if HAL didn't continually chase everyone else's tail by offering what are essentially two 7-day itineraries for 8 ships during the Alaska season when they could offer those same itineraries for only 4 of the ships and use the other 4 to offer 10, 11 and 14-day itineraries - maybe two ships doing R/T to Anchorage from Seattle and two ships R/T from San Francisco...

[fcorey]

Yes - it reminds me of what happenned w/ GM in the 80's - where Buick, Pontiac and Oldsmobile sold essentially rebadged Chevrolets - all GM brands suffered and lost market share as a result...

 

 

 

Again, if HAL didn't continually chase everyone else's tail by offering what are essentially two 7-day itineraries for 8 ships during the Alaska season when they could offer those same itineraries for only 4 of the ships and use the other 4 to offer 10, 11 and 14-day itineraries - maybe two ships doing R/T to Anchorage from Seattle and two ships R/T from San Francisco...

 

Seattle - Anchorage roundtrip would be interesting.

[peaches from georgia]

I'd do Seattle/Anchorage rt for sure. Son and granddaughter in Seattle and relatives living in Anchorage. Would be a great itinerary! :)

[agabbymama]

Just a few things more that made HAL unique to me.

 

1.Chimes that ring to announce dinner.

2.Teak wood promenade deck all the way around the ship (I think they are the only mass market line that still does).

3.Wood deck lounge chairs with real blankets.

4.Wood and brass representing a sailing ship/not an amusement park.

5.Free Split Pea Soup and Hot chocolate on deck during Glacier Bay viewing.

6.An actual Deck Boy in what I call a Phillip Morris suit walking around on deck to make sure you had everything you needed while on deck.

7.And the passenger ratio to crew and size of ship. Always seemed to be someone available to help or answer a question.

8.Classic lines of the ship representative of an ocean liner (of which HAL once was).

 

While all of this was found on the "old" Noordam in '99, I certainly hope to still find it on the Zuiderdam in '07.